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Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
Turbo Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
That is a nice turbo that can do betterWink
intercooler efficiency is put in a wrong way
volumetric efficiency is put in wrong way
turbine efficiency is wrong, specially with that exhaust house
and there is more that do not end up...
That program is nice but beware how some things is put in it


(11-30-2014, 01:53 PM)Duncansport Wrote:
(11-17-2014, 01:21 PM)anjay Wrote: Hi guys!
I am in process of upgrading my 602 with Goran's 7.5 mm pump. Obviously my stock turbo is to small. Locally I have available HE351CW and HY35. Which one of those two would be a better choice. I am looking for dd application so I am not much concerned about top end performance.
Most of my driving is between 2000 to 3000 rpm. Your advice would be much appreciated.

Anjay

Both are very similar, the HE offering a superior turbine design as well as a bigger compressor. I think it tops out at 67LBS. I think if your looking to DD the car and you do not want to modify you OEM manifold i would recommend something like a T25 based GT28. Both the Holset will be a lot more then you need for you 602 if DD the car. If you dont want to spend the money on a GT28 then you could source many different T25 turbos that would be offer more flow then your stock 602 unit and bolt to the OE manifold.

As my 605 build is progressing i've been back at the search for a good choice of turbo.

I've been messing with the BW MatchBot and finding the results intriguing.

Have a look..

F.R.A.S. i'd love your weigh in on this..


Borg Warner MatchBot
11-30-2014, 04:03 PM
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Duncansport Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
[quote='Turbo' pid='68003' dateline='1417381429']
That is a nice turbo that can do betterWink
intercooler efficiency is put in a wrong way
volumetric efficiency is put in wrong way
turbine efficiency is wrong, specially with that exhaust house
and there is more that do not end up...
That program is nice but beware how some things is put in it


Thanks for the feedback, i did change VE as well as interccoler efficiency around quite a bit to see what the difference would be and i noticed it only on the target HP and TQ which im not really depending on this program to generate for me. After viewing some help videos of the inputs i guess im still lost with the turbine efficiency. Any pointers?
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11-30-2014, 05:22 PM
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anjay Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
I do have a gt2359 but I want to put on my w210 with 606. I was thinking to swap the original from it to 602. Well, the flanges are diffrent but I might just weld on t25. My hesitation is, because the
pump is set to 140 cc, that turbo might as well be to small and after alteration it might be useless.
For that reason I am looking for something what works and is already tried. By asking for advice I am trying to tap into our collective experience and avoid inventing a wheel all over again.
Thank you guys for input, much appreciated.
Anjay
1977 300D for parts? Just a pile of rust but still runs!
1984 190D 2.2 - winter ride
1987 300TD - tinker toy
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1992 300TD - semi-STD(Goran modified 7.5 ip but still with factory turbo+at)
1998 E300TD - dd
11-30-2014, 09:18 PM
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anjay Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
I have installed my moded pump on 602. With factory turbo set to 20 psi once standard ALDA opens it goes like stink! For the moment just initial tests to see how engine responds to moded pump.
At first injectors nailed like crazy, with normal timing when cold. Once engine warmed up after test drive idle went up to about 900 rpm. I am not sure what is a deal about that. Kind of scared me when I hit ice patch on my way out of garage and engine took of like a rocket till I realized that my wheel lost a traction. For a second I thought that engine is running away. I am going to shim up ALDA tomorrow and see if that will help to eliminate sluggish initial acceleration while transmission is in drive.
While shifting manually it works just fine.
If comes to ride itself, I managed for the first time ever to lay 200 feet of rubber just shifting manually! After ride I advanced timing couple degree to eliminate nailing at idle. Will see how it works tomorrow when starting from cold.
1977 300D for parts? Just a pile of rust but still runs!
1984 190D 2.2 - winter ride
1987 300TD - tinker toy
1991 300TD - unmoded and best on MPG
1992 300TD - semi-STD(Goran modified 7.5 ip but still with factory turbo+at)
1998 E300TD - dd
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2014, 09:59 PM by anjay.)
12-02-2014, 09:56 PM
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Duncansport Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
Got about five hours into this so far

.jpg   10409671_10203224630992895_5726553952201086166_n.jpg (Size: 87.53 KB / Downloads: 1,105)

.jpg   IMG_4151.JPG (Size: 36.24 KB / Downloads: 881)

.jpg   IMG_4152.JPG (Size: 38.63 KB / Downloads: 936)
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(This post was last modified: 12-19-2014, 05:48 PM by Duncansport.)
12-19-2014, 05:47 PM
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raysorenson Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
That's cool! I think longer tubes have merit on the 5 cylinder engines since you can't make use of a divided exhaust housing. Where did you get those formed pieces at the port flange?
12-19-2014, 09:40 PM
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baldur Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
A work of art Duncan.
Baldur Gislason

12-19-2014, 09:44 PM
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Duncansport Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
(12-19-2014, 09:40 PM)raysorenson Wrote: That's cool! I think longer tubes have merit on the 5 cylinder engines since you can't make use of a divided exhaust housing. Where did you get those formed pieces at the port flange?

I made them from 2" to 1.5" concentric reducers

(12-19-2014, 09:44 PM)baldur Wrote: A work of art Duncan.

ThanksBig Grin
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(This post was last modified: 12-20-2014, 09:57 AM by Duncansport.)
12-20-2014, 09:57 AM
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F.R.A.S Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
Looks good mate. Wrong section though so someone should move your post Smile

Ray you can in fact do a split housing manifold for a 5cyl. Split Nr3 tube and build as normal.

Gonna look awesome when done Duncan and five hours is really fast. You've been busy Smile
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12-21-2014, 07:30 AM
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Turbo Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
why do you not like stainless steel as material FRAS?


(12-21-2014, 07:30 AM)F.R.A.S Wrote: Looks good mate. Wrong section though so someone should move your post Smile

Ray you can in fact do a split housing manifold for a 5cyl. Split Nr3 tube and build as normal.

Gonna look awesome when done Duncan and five hours is really fast. You've been busy Smile
12-21-2014, 02:23 PM
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F.R.A.S Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
It's way more expensive for NO advantages at all. So why should I like it? Second. It's a bitch welding cause it warps like crazy. Third it has a tendency to crack (ours have never done that but we use really thick tubes).

Mild steel is just cheap, easy to use and stays together for eternity Big Grin

Simple as that.

(12-21-2014, 02:23 PM)Turbo Wrote: why do you not like stainless steel as material FRAS?
F-tune Performance [Image: V-band_om606.jpg] [Image: GTX3582R.jpg] [Image: gs6-53dz_gearbox.jpg]

I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
12-21-2014, 05:40 PM
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Duncansport Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
(12-21-2014, 05:40 PM)F.R.A.S Wrote: It's way more expensive for NO advantages at all. So why should I like it? Second. It's a bitch welding cause it warps like crazy. Third it has a tendency to crack (ours have never done that but we use really thick tubes).

Mild steel is just cheap, easy to use and stays together for eternity Big Grin

Simple as that.

(12-21-2014, 02:23 PM)Turbo Wrote: why do you not like stainless steel as material FRAS?

+1
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12-21-2014, 08:55 PM
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Hario' Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
(12-19-2014, 05:47 PM)Duncansport Wrote: Got about five hours into this so far

Why is turbos pointing forwards Duncansport/?



Installed:

OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. 
[/i]
02-04-2015, 07:22 AM
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Duncansport Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
I didnt like how tight all the bends would need to be to make it inline with the engine ( i am an newbi manifold builder after all) Theres so much room in the front of the engine i though this would be best. 

Ill get some more pictures up soon.
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02-09-2015, 11:14 AM
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mytmousemalibu Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
My OM603 that is being retired had the original turbo yanked off and I put a spare older Turbonetics T60-1 on it for giggles. Didn't measure much on it, just put it on. It has a 60mm inducer comp, and is journal bearing, no anti-surge, billet exducer plate, 1:01 A/R exh. IIRC and T4 flange, not running any wastegate at all, the turbo doesn't have one. It bolted up using some of the factory hardware, the oil feed & drain bolted right on (it is a Garrett based turbo). I utilized the stock manifold but fabbed a custom crossover pipe w/ t4 flange thats like the original one. All the pre-turbo exhaust is wrapped in titanium type header wrap. Mods to the car are adjusted ALDA, 3.5" exhaust turbo-back with a Borla muffler, dumps underneath in front of the axle. Using an OE Duramax intake tube to an S&B filter. It starts making a few psi of boost around 2500 rpm and climbs lazily on modest or less throttle. If you hammer it from a dead stop, it starts winding up at about 3000rpm and starts pulling hard to shift point and peaks at 15psi boost. It has no choke point as is or surge and is pretty laggy down low but fun on spool! I will probably give this turbo a try on the 606 when its done. It will be better suited and have the fuel and drive to work.


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03-30-2015, 04:40 AM
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atypicalguy Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
(02-05-2013, 01:21 AM)Captain America Wrote:
(02-04-2013, 07:43 PM)lpumb3 Wrote: Capt America , did they replace the waste gate diaphragm when PT rebuilt your turbo?
 does any one know where to source  a diaphragm for the stock t3 turbos waste gate?
I would imagine so but i didn't ask... it was at least disassembled because everything is spotlessly clean and painted. I am sure James can get any parts too

Anybody ever have that outfit in San Bernardino put a different compressor wheel on a k26? BECS turbo has a good reputation down here, so I was going to ask them.
06-28-2015, 02:29 PM
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atypicalguy Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
Anyone know the turbine diameter and a/r of the housing for the kkk k26?

Edit

Never mind here they are:

Compressor
I 39.6 mm
E 66

Turbine
I 64.5
E 45.6
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2015, 07:32 PM by atypicalguy.)
07-12-2015, 12:40 PM
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atypicalguy Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
Link to Dougal's writeup on max om617 hp from a stock, adjusted MW pump with intercooler on 4btswaps:

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread...nce-Review
09-22-2015, 10:13 PM
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Tobulus Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
Hi,

I have a question: As I am making future plans on my OM605 with electric pump in w124 build, I want to have a little more power, but want to keep the low end torque of the engine. As it is a daily driver, I am not looking for too much power. I want to keep the stock pump, but remap it.

But I want to start with a better turbo. I thought I might go with a vacuum actuated VNT from a 270 (GT2259V) or 320cdi (GT2359V). I know that I will have to build a boost controller. But which of these two turbos will be better for my needs? I want a turbo that spools like the original one or even earlier, but I also like to have more top end for more power. I do not necessary need more boost, I think the c250s stock torque at 3000rpm is enough for my needs.

Oh, I want to keep the engine smoke-free!
11-09-2015, 03:32 AM
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LongOldLandy Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
(11-09-2015, 03:32 AM)Tobulus Wrote: Hi,

I have a question: As I am making future plans on my OM605 with electric pump in w124 build,  I want to have a little more power,  but want to keep the low end torque of the engine.  As it is a daily driver,  I am not looking for too much power.  I want to keep the stock pump,  but remap it.

But I want to start with a better turbo.  I thought I might go with a vacuum actuated VNT from a 270 (GT2259V) or 320cdi (GT2359V).  I know that I will have to build a boost controller.  But which of these two turbos will be better for my needs? I want a turbo that spools like the original one or even earlier,  but I also like to have more top end for more power.  I do not necessary need more boost,  I think the c250s stock torque at 3000rpm is enough for my needs.

Oh, I want to keep the engine smoke-free!

I'd also like to hear any thoughts about these VNT turbos if anybody has any experience!
02-15-2016, 05:09 AM
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Duncansport Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
the VNT turbo subject has been talked about to no end here on this form. The general consensus is that it will never be the magic super fast spooling turbo that make huge low end TQ and great top end power. Im not saying it cant be made to work, just that with the amount of fiddling around you would be better off getting a properly sized turbo for your set up.
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02-15-2016, 08:40 AM
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barrote Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
mr duncan , i do not completely agree with u.... since i´m an owner of a 605 with a gt23V installed .... and working rather well...
it took me some time to get it work as a regular wastegated , but once found the solution it works a lot better than any WG turbo i´ve seen, of course with a 7.5mm pump, in stock i don´t know but should be the same except a gt23 is to big for the 5 cylinder.
one thing is true it will never flow that much gas at 6k like a HX35 and produce that much power , but for a street racer /day driver i dont notice the need to REV over 4.5 k , nevertheless in my build it works great til 5.5 k.
As i have the thing right now , pressure actuator to open vanes, it is set to maintain 2BAR, 1 bar comes 1.5k at 2k 1.5BAR at 2.3 fell the kick vanes open till 6K 2 bar , of course from 4.5K on high EGP can be felt, thats what i´m dealing with at the moment. the solution i plan is a WG device in the EGR exit. looks promissing.
Actually i wonder how a GT30V would behave... unfortunatly i haven´t found one to try....
if u want to run some trials i can share some of my info with u, expecially how it would a GT30V behave in a 605 , once i belive they are kind of common in there.
FD,
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02-15-2016, 10:37 AM
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Duncansport Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
Im using the HE351CW and have about 20 psi by 2500, also with a 605. For such a huge turbo i couldn't ask for more really. Its also very simple and packaged very well.
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02-15-2016, 11:28 AM
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barrote Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
ok , i got it 20psi ... how much do u have by 5.5k?
i´m very interested in trying a Hy/hx 35 didn´t figured out the dif , i supose u can help me with that, is the hy a modern version of the HX series or has nothing to do , like a He 351CW "holset electronic 35 controled waste gate, being the 1 something regarding installation , i´m i in the right track or is just missing info...
here in my planet a garrets are laying around the corners , holsets never seen one besides generator sets or heavy offroad equipment ...
FD,
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02-15-2016, 04:22 PM
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Duncansport Offline
Holset
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
The HE351CW is just a regular gated turbo with about a 9CM^2 exhaust turbine housing. The compressor is 60/86 and turbine is 58/70.
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02-16-2016, 04:07 PM
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LongOldLandy Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
I've managed to get hold of a 'scrap' Garrett GT2556S from work, does anyone know if this would work with a 606 to produce 250-ish bhp and fast spooling?

[Image: image1.jpg]

It's from a 4.4 liter Perkins diesel.  Specs that I can see are I think a 6cm exhaust housing, and 0.52 A/R ratio.

Any thoughts anyone?
03-08-2016, 10:28 AM
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awsrock Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
BW S200G, fromDeutz / Volvo engines, some 6.06 and some 7.14L

Stock photo
[Image: SCH170-070-0430(3).jpg]

54/77 Compressor

56/70 Turbine

T3 Twin Scroll Housing, not sure on size, maybe 10 or 12cm. 4 bolt 2.75" exhaust opening.

Can't find a map for it anywhere. Can't really find much of anything on it actually. I have seen a few that were not labeled EC-2, one was EC-1 and one had no number.

One user here has it on his 617 with 130-140cc and says spool starts at 1700

It might be overkill for my 603 project, but I'll give it a shot and see what happens. Looks like it is closer to an HY35 but a bit newer design. I have an HX30 now and while it would flow enough air for my needs, the exhaust side is tiny at 6cm and there really aren't many options for me to upgrade. That has a 52/65 turbine so this should still spool better for me than an HX35
05-09-2016, 11:22 AM
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R-3350 Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
it might be hard to find but something to think about is there is a 12CM twin scroll exhaust housing for the HX30 that might meet your needs. the twin volutes on a 603 should keep the spool relatively fast while still flowing a great deal more on the top end.
05-09-2016, 01:12 PM
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awsrock Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
I did look for a 12cm for my HX30 for a while but no luck. I had an offer for a 9cm non wastegated one but at that point it would cost the same as buying this s200 with the external, etc. The other thing is I'd want to keep the 44mm compressor and I think the 12s were only 40. I assume the housings would swap but if they didn't then I'd have issues again. I'm still going to keep an eye out for one depending how this goes.
05-09-2016, 04:53 PM
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R-3350 Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
the 12cm housing will swap right on without any mods. its also a twin scroll the others are not. however it is a rare find. try searching the china clones on ebay or other vendors maybe some of them had it or you could order it from one of those companies. i wouldn't worry about the Chinese quality problem for only a housing.
05-09-2016, 06:26 PM
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OM616 Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
(05-09-2016, 11:22 AM)awsrock Wrote: BW S200G, fromDeutz / Volvo engines, some 6.06 and some 7.14L

Can't find a map for it anywhere. Can't really find much of anything on it actually. I have seen a few that were not labeled EC-2, one was EC-1 and one had no number.

One user here has it on his 617 with 130-140cc and says spool starts at 1700

It might be overkill for my 603 project, but I'll give it a shot and see what happens. Looks like it is closer to an HY35 but a bit newer design. I have an HX30 now and while it would flow enough air for my needs, the exhaust side is tiny at 6cm and there really aren't many options for me to upgrade. That has a 52/65 turbine so this should still spool better for me than an HX35

I am not sure if this is the same as the S200G, but if it is, and I am reading the map correctly, it sure has a wide map and will make a lot of pressure. Being a twin scroll, it can be made to spool sooner. And it is a T3 flange..

http://www.aspecperformance.com/images/B...atalog.pdf         ( go to pg 15 for the S200 map)

Edit:

After doing some math it would appear that it trying to build less than 15 lbs of boost below 2K rpm crosses the surge line.
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2018, 07:54 PM by OM616.)
02-26-2018, 07:38 PM
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awsrock Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
(02-26-2018, 07:38 PM)OM616 Wrote: I am not sure if this is the same as the S200G, but if it is, and I am reading the map correctly, it sure has a wide map and will make a lot of pressure. Being a twin scroll, it can be made to spool sooner. And it is a T3 flange..

http://www.aspecperformance.com/images/B...atalog.pdf         ( go to pg 15 for the S200 map)

Edit:

After doing some math it would appear that it trying to build less than 15 lbs of boost below 2K rpm crosses the surge line.

Thanks for posting that pdf! I have had this turbo in for about a year. With a 90cc pump it is a bit on the large side but performs adequately. Unscientifically speaking, it starts to whistle around 1800 but really does not exceed 5-7 psi unitl about 2800 rpm. Full boost is around 3100, maybe a bit lower in top gear. ALDA enrichment does not begin until about 2700-2800 as well. I have an elbe manifold that is pretty long tube so that may cost me a few hundred rpm. Overall it is still decent at the low end except in 3rd at light throttle, where sometimes downshifting is needed if I need to get going. Top end is very good and with lower gears in a 722.6 small which I am planning on swapping it should be a lot peppier off boost.

It does have an internal wastegate unlike the current breed of S200s. The compressor is not extended tip, but I am 80% sure it is billet. The turbine is the same profile as the newer ones but is smaller and has 10 blades instead of 12. The center housing appears to be the same as the new ones, so theoretically you could swap in a new front end or turbine wheel and housing, but at the moment you basically have to buy the turbo whole. 

I got mine for $300 and it said it needed rebuilt. All it did was smoke a decent amount so I put new bearings and seals in and it is better, although with a large feed orifice it still smoked a bit. Rebuilt units on ebay go for like $800 so I don't know if it would be worth it when you could get a new S200sx for $550 or an SXE for $700 all said and done. I am eventually planning on around 300-330 hp with a new pump so this should wake up quite a bit while still being a good size.
02-27-2018, 04:43 PM
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OM616 Offline
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Location: Michigan
RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)
(02-27-2018, 04:43 PM)awsrock Wrote: Thanks for posting that pdf! I have had this turbo in for about a year. With a 90cc pump it is a bit on the large side but performs adequately. Unscientifically speaking, it starts to whistle around 1800 but really does not exceed 5-7 psi unitl about 2800 rpm. Full boost is around 3100, maybe a bit lower in top gear. ALDA enrichment does not begin until about 2700-2800 as well. I have an elbe manifold that is pretty long tube so that may cost me a few hundred rpm. Overall it is still decent at the low end except in 3rd at light throttle, where sometimes downshifting is needed if I need to get going. Top end is very good and with lower gears in a 722.6 small which I am planning on swapping it should be a lot peppier off boost.

It does have an internal wastegate unlike the current breed of S200s. The compressor is not extended tip, but I am 80% sure it is billet. The turbine is the same profile as the newer ones but is smaller and has 10 blades instead of 12. The center housing appears to be the same as the new ones, so theoretically you could swap in a new front end or turbine wheel and housing, but at the moment you basically have to buy the turbo whole. 

I got mine for $300 and it said it needed rebuilt. All it did was smoke a decent amount so I put new bearings and seals in and it is better, although with a large feed orifice it still smoked a bit. Rebuilt units on ebay go for like $800 so I don't know if it would be worth it when you could get a new S200sx for $550 or an SXE for $700 all said and done. I am eventually planning on around 300-330 hp with a new pump so this should wake up quite a bit while still being a good size.

I like the internal wastegate and T3 flange, makes it a lot smaller and easier to bolt on and go.. That being said, I would make a slide valve plate that would allow me to block off one of the scrolls to get it to come in earlier,( I would like to have 10 to 15 lbs by 2K)  but... Looking at the compressor map, I will most likely have to bleed off some air until it is back inside the map. 

I also like that it will put out a lot of air at high pressure so I think it would be worth the extra work to make it perform like I want it to on the bottom end.

A S2B turbo would be a better over all fit, but no waste gate and I the ones I have seen are with in the same price range as the S100 so I am am leaning hard to the S100 because of the capabilities it has.
02-27-2018, 07:10 PM
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g wizz Offline
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RE: Turbo Information Thread (Needs your contributions!)





this allows me to run a he341 with a welded shut wastegate, so thats sorta unique?
lets me make my own map (lower boost than the stock 20 psi) also helps lower drive pressure. i figure im doing waaaay less than 1 bar right now. prob 7-10 psi of boost lightest spring as well as the lowest port setting on the wg...  

85 300d om603, 717, he 341, sch40 stainless manifold with prioritized 50mm external W/G (2"open dump), intercooled, intake manifold, full 3.5 stainless exhaust.
need to figure out a different trans cause its already pissed with only 5.5mm elements... then diff and suspension. but for now its daily as described above.
10-22-2018, 12:37 AM
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