Custom oil pan, was "Rear sump, dry sump, or angle the engine?"
Custom oil pan, was "Rear sump, dry sump, or angle the engine?"
I'm in a bit of a pickle.
I've got some interference between the frame and the front sump, as well as the swaybar.
I've heard that the turbo oil pumps don't hang down as low, so maybe ploping one in and removing a bit of the oil pan could work?
I'm contemplating remaking the pan for rear sump or a flat sump, since I need to cut out part of it to clear the starter, but I'm undecided...
Other options would be making a different pickup and decking the oil pan a few inches, doing a dry-sump setup with external pumps(last resort), or just trim the frame and angle the engine up in the front to clear the swaybar, and overfill slightly to deal with the oil pooling in the back.
Any thoughts?
Maybe do something like Kracken did. Cut a piece out of the pan and modified the oil pick up.
http://superturbodiesel.com/std/om617-4r...l#pid20608
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That's along the lines of what I was thinking of doing, good to see it's been done before.
I'm thinking I'll need to remove part of the flange on the cast pan since that hits frame as well, but if I already have to trim the frame to clear the harmonic balancer it's likely moot.
Looks like rear sump is out, that'd hit a crossmember.
wow, looks like one of my threads may actually turn out to be useful :p
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/oil-...-1362.html
Thank's Mr Manny, after looking through all of that, I'm convinced custom/modified lower pan is the way to go.
Also, it looks like the NA block can't take a turbo oil pump due to not having room for the needed chain sprocket, unless I'm overlooking something?
Are the lower pans interchangeable between turbo and NA, minus turbo oil drain and etc?
Same flange bolt pattern/seal locations? If I had access to a turbo engine I'd be able to do the comparisons myself, but you guys are my eyes on this one.
(11-13-2010, 11:29 PM)300D50 Are the lower pans interchangeable between turbo and NA, minus turbo oil drain and etc?No, different bolt pattern.
(11-13-2010, 11:29 PM)300D50 Are the lower pans interchangeable between turbo and NA, minus turbo oil drain and etc?No, different bolt pattern.
(11-13-2010, 11:15 PM)mr_manny wow, looks like one of my threads may actually turn out to be useful :p
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/oil-...-1362.html
(11-13-2010, 11:15 PM)mr_manny wow, looks like one of my threads may actually turn out to be useful :p
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/oil-...-1362.html
I was going to make a full custom pan with a mid-pickup sump, but seeing as the turbo and NA pans have different bolt patterns it's easier to chop up my NA pan a bit for now, and do the turbo one right later on.
(11-15-2010, 03:24 PM)ben2go Someone mentioned the Gwagen oil pan.What's so good about that pan?
(11-15-2010, 03:24 PM)ben2go Someone mentioned the Gwagen oil pan.What's so good about that pan?
(11-15-2010, 06:04 PM)ForcedInduction(11-15-2010, 03:24 PM)ben2go Someone mentioned the Gwagen oil pan.What's so good about that pan?
Its a single cast piece.
(11-15-2010, 06:04 PM)ForcedInduction(11-15-2010, 03:24 PM)ben2go Someone mentioned the Gwagen oil pan.What's so good about that pan?
Its a single cast piece.
I don't see it as a benefit since it loses all its impact absorption ability and its a major job to remove/repair. Even with a skidplate, I'd rather have a pan that bends instead of shatters.
From a modification standpoint it gives more options for different shapes, but one could do that by building and welding your own aluminum lower pan to the stock upper pan.
(11-15-2010, 07:04 PM)ben2go(11-15-2010, 06:04 PM)ForcedInduction(11-15-2010, 03:24 PM)ben2go Someone mentioned the Gwagen oil pan.What's so good about that pan?
Its a single cast piece.
I see how that's better than a stamped steel unit.
(11-15-2010, 07:04 PM)ben2go(11-15-2010, 06:04 PM)ForcedInduction(11-15-2010, 03:24 PM)ben2go Someone mentioned the Gwagen oil pan.What's so good about that pan?
Its a single cast piece.
I see how that's better than a stamped steel unit.
Anyone happen to have a good photo of the top front of the cast pan flange from a turbo block?
I've got a reasonably complete point scan of the NA pan, enough to do a recreation of the flange, baffles, and the like. If it's simply a clearance issue on the front, I'll make the top flange so that it will go on either a turbo or NA block so I can future proof.
Well, I'm making an oil pan!
Starting in on the section for the rear main right now.
Post pics and let us know how much it holds.I looked at external oil pumps today and passed out from sticker shock.It took a Four LoKo to bring me back around.Nahhh J/K.I stay away from black out in a can.
I'll be trying to keep the stock capacity or maybe add another quart or so.
I'd like to be able to make it universal so it fits either the NA or the turbo blocks, I've got an idea as to what's different between them but need some visual confirmation...
I belive if you use 617engine mounts on a 616engine, it lets the engine sit somthing like 4or6 inches closer to the firewall, but then the crossmember gets in the way of the oilpan. Right?? So just welding up a new oil pan would be sweet!
I'm locked-in with the trans location right now, don't feel like moving shifter locations, cutting the tunnel, making new trans mounts, and getting 2 custom driveshafts made.
Main issues I have are the 617 is a whole boatload longer than the V6 it's replacing, so the front of the sump hits frame and swaybar, the starter wants to coexist with the ears on the cast pan, and I've got limited space due to the front differential.
I've been modeling up a new pan based on the original ones dimensions, and the dimensions of the mitsubishi one. So far it looks like I'll be using a mid-sump, possibly with the mitsubishi pan in the mix.
Motor mounts will end up being custom made, using the mitsubishi rubber mounts and just remaking the bracketry that bolts to the block.
Eliminate the factory sway bar and do a custom one! Then notch the frame cross bar!
Looks like I can access the world-EPC on the "free subscription".
I know that the left oil pan is found in most 300 cars.What are the other two found in?Would the center one give more clearance on the back side of the pan?Considering that the OM617 is going into another car,a cast pan would not be much of a concern as far as being hit by debris.
Those seem to be NA pans, any chance of getting a diagram of the turbo ones?
(11-21-2010, 06:56 AM)ForcedInduction There is only one turbo pan.
Well, I'm now irrevocably committed to getting an oilpan finished!
This is the relief for the starter, since I rotated it down under the block to match the transmissions starter location.
And of all the weird shit that could EVER happen, Pandora came up on my phone at random, right as I was typing this, and started playing "looks like they were right" by Lit.
Maybe it's a message from the Mercedes/Mitsubishi gods?
After the rough-out!
Curiosity got the better of me, I had to check again!
By far, one of my FAVORITE photo's so far!
I know, it's awesome just staring at this thing!
The original cast pan is 10 pounds, the pass side rail is 6.
When I put it up against the engine, it makes it look MUCH different, the effect is very hard to describe....
Effing amazing...
Anxiously awaiting more pics...
(11-20-2010, 10:49 AM)ForcedInduction Looks like I can access the world-EPC on the "free subscription".
(11-20-2010, 10:49 AM)ForcedInduction Looks like I can access the world-EPC on the "free subscription".
I wish I could sit down and do some of this as well.
Pandora is awesome!
The 2 halves are contoured, awaiting drilling, upper one is pass side, lower is part of the drivers side.
Daaaamnn.... You do excellent work! Great job so far!
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Front main seal retainer, after the third to last operation. Tomorrow both retainers get their block mounting holes drilled and counterbored.
A a few quick comparison shots of what's done so far.
Today was a good day, finished the intermediate plate, made the intermediate block that clears the oil pump shaft, trimmed the longest side rail to final size, and got everything drilled and tapped to hold it all together.
Tomorrow it's drilling and counterboring the mounting holes in the end plates, and setting up to flycut the tops of the side rails to match the rest of the seal surface, then punching the main mounting holes in the rails.
Things are looking up.
That is some pretty amazing craftsmanship! Highly impressed. How are you planning on sealing the joints? Or did I miss that part?
I'll take a leaf from Force, and use the Loctite anaerobic sealer on the bolted flanges, and possibly to the block.
Oh, and picture time!
Drilling the mounting holes in the drivers side pan rail.
Need to do 2 more holes in the cnc, and then some counterbore work on one of the manual machines, and I'll be able to do a test-bolt once the longer bolts come in.
Machine was on the fritz yesterday, so I probed out the t-stat housing to get the needed dimensions to make a new one that won't interfere with the grand plan to raise up the A/C compressor.
Got the machine going again today, turned out to be a backup battery that was just dead enough to cause issues, but not dead enough to trip the "low battery" alarm...
Pass side pan rail in the fixture, after counterboring. Decided to do it in the CNC once I remembered where the 3" long 5/16 endmill was.
Need to face .04" off the inside of the rear main seal block in order to get it all to fit the way I want it to, still drill and counterbore the other 2 holes, then deck the bottom surface down nice and even.
Getting there...
Guess I'll ask again...
Anyone know if the oil pump from a turbo 617 will fit in an NA engine?
I'm going to run into a clearance issue with the NA pump it seems, and from the looks of it the turbo pump's pickup geometry would alleviate the issue.
I got the counterbore work all finished Tuesday, just forgot to snap pics...
With the sump flange.
Without the sump flange.
Upper pan, is finished.
looks nice I would like to know about the oil pump as well for my om616 turbo project!
Found this narrowed om617 oil-pan...looks like they're getting ready to start their first run:
http://mercedesdiesel4x4.com/OM617OilPan...wSump.aspx
300D50,
Yours is in a completely different category...droooool :p
manny