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+--- Thread: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? (/showthread.php?tid=7402)
Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - TurboTim - 09-09-2016
Dieselmeken wont responds but I am looking for some bigger elements for my electric M pump. I currently have just a mechanical pump 160cc pump from him but just cant get the high RPM fuel I want. I am hoping with DSL1 controller and bigger elements in that I can meet my needs. What is Myna's website and do they do E pumps?
RE: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - R-3350 - 09-09-2016
the electronic and mechanical pumps are the same except for the governor. what works in one pump is the same in the other. there might be some slight differences in the rack travel limits i am not sure, this might affect the maximum fuel from a given element. but Dieselmeken and most any other m pump builder will install larger elements for you. i believe Dieselmeken has a video on his Facebook of a 606 with the stock electronic pump and larger elements showing how it behaves with no software mods.
RE: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - barrote - 09-09-2016
how come u don´t have enough fuel in high RPM?
how much do u need and at what RPM?
Be aware that the M EDC is almost identical to a mechanical M apart from the governor.
There are some blueprint that has to be made in order to have "stupids" amounts of fuel at high RPM´s .
For instance a pump runing at 2k (eng 4k)with 1,50mml output(150cc) will put out a lot of liters every minute.
Test tables set the test in the 1000rpm region , but i have seen some pumps with dificiencies "somewhere" and they canot pump out the same amount at 3000k by that speed the pumping eficiency drops dwn a lot. even with feed pressures in the 5 bar region, wich enough to put fuel out everiwhere. irespective of the governor.
In my opinion a fuel delivery system has to be made too, in the bench(i have) we can feed 1000lts/hour at about 5 bar this is the limit, i wont be surprised if we end up needing something like this in the vehicle.
take a look at this vid , here u can see what´s the diff in a real superpump, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNyZ3nFAKkU
RE: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - TurboTim - 09-09-2016
Barrote you are the one who got me on this tangent. The governor pulls fuel at higher rpm. Remember I was adjusting my tq control capsule to get more fuel up top. I have it as much adjusted as possible. It actually runs away if I rev it not in get Gear.
RE: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - TurboTim - 09-09-2016
I assume with Buldur's controller you can have full rack travel all the way to 7k RPM. The stock pump starts pulling fuel I bet 2-3k RPM sooner. This is why I wanna try an E pump. My M Pump just wont supply the 160cc it does at low RPM. My car makes 370HP no matter what I do to it. I can spray a 125 shot. TQ goes way up but my top end HP just stays the same meaning I have no more fuel up to to burn. I run 10psi fuel pressure plus boost. So roughly 40 something fuel pressure with boost.
RE: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - TurboTim - 09-09-2016
In that video he shows it flows 242cc but that is at low RPM. I see he revs it to 7k but he doesnt show the flow there.
RE: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - R-3350 - 09-09-2016
i am more familiar with the MW series pumps. but the M series have basically the same governor with a different layout. the torque control capsule regulates the fueling curve below the max speed governor control level. the torque capsule should minimally affect fueling up high. to change that you would need a stiffer high idle spring or increase the tension on the stock spring. i am not sure on the M pump but the MW the max speed governor stock can only be increased a few hundred RPM at best due to the short length of the adjusting screw. you can replace it with a longer one to hold off de-fueling to a higher RPM. this is what you seem to be after. i would look into how much adjustment is available in the high idle screw, consider the length of the screw vs the coil bind in the spring if its near bind with the stock screw maxed you probably need to install a stiffer spring if not the you could install a longer adjustment screw. as for replacing the max speed/high idle governor spring i would be hesitant to do this myself. i would recommend that you send a pump to dieselmeken or similar shop to do this. something else to consider is that regardless of the governor larger elements can have a difficulty filling completely at a high RPM. thus with full rack travel your fueling would decrease above some rpm due to the physical limits of the elements ability to fill.
RE: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - barrote - 09-10-2016
(09-09-2016, 07:27 PM)TurboTim In that video he shows it flows 242cc but that is at low RPM. I see he revs it to 7k but he doesnt show the flow there.
Thats what i was trying to explain , tell u , make a remark , however u want to see it...
200cc fuel output at 7K needs a highly moded pump , and it may not be possible , weather in a EDC or a Mech M. What is the barier that is stoping u from seeing the light......
Lets open the window a bit more do we , intead of being teased...
why dont u spend your Money in opening the fill port in the element, equip the pump with harder recovery springs, grind cam, 18mm rolers , element top cut.... and so on...
Rent a bench , and test!!!
RE: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - barrote - 09-10-2016
(09-09-2016, 10:06 PM)R-3350 i am more familiar with the MW series pumps. but the M series have basically the same governor with a different layout. the torque control capsule regulates the fueling curve below the max speed governor control level. the torque capsule should minimally affect fueling up high. to change that you would need a stiffer high idle spring or increase the tension on the stock spring. i am not sure on the M pump but the MW the max speed governor stock can only be increased a few hundred RPM at best due to the short length of the adjusting screw. you can replace it with a longer one to hold off de-fueling to a higher RPM. this is what you seem to be after. i would look into how much adjustment is available in the high idle screw, consider the length of the screw vs the coil bind in the spring if its near bind with the stock screw maxed you probably need to install a stiffer spring if not the you could install a longer adjustment screw. as for replacing the max speed/high idle governor spring i would be hesitant to do this myself. i would recommend that you send a pump to dieselmeken or similar shop to do this. something else to consider is that regardless of the governor larger elements can have a difficulty filling completely at a high RPM. thus with full rack travel your fueling would decrease above some rpm due to the physical limits of the elements ability to fill.
The RSF has nothing to do with the rq. but having experience in one helps a lot tunning the other.
The regulation for high RPM cut off , is a hard Spring wich alow´s the full governor body to move backwards when the "watt" mechanism forces it out, puling the rack back.
Tighting the screw wich holds the Spring might not do nothing due to the Spring rating, tighting may only changes how fast it operates.
RSF governors are rated in low rpm(min) and high(max) , is common to see something like 290/2600. 80% of the pumps are 2600. wich means that the cut off Spring is rated for 5200eng RPM , tighning the Spring wont do nothing only changes the start of cut off, 5k intead of 4.5k.
What people usually do is , change the Spring by a harder one, or steal from a 2900 governor. or even some crazy fellas use a bit instead of the Spring.
The M´s experience element fill dificiencies, early in the process, i seen them exibit bad filling as low as 2k. as said is phisicall inability for more.
The Tq capsule, does nothing in a superpump. or it is disabled by default or it is out of rating and does not cut nothing speciall. depend how the governor was set, ofcourse it has a balance fulcrum to retain the max fuel screw. thats why sometimes is necessary to move the body in or out.
regards
RE: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - bruno_pinho - 09-10-2016
My EDC pump with 7.5mm elements make full load up to 6500rpm at this time.....
RE: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - TurboTim - 09-10-2016
And this is why I want an EDC pump!
RE: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - bruno_pinho - 09-10-2016
(09-10-2016, 11:17 AM)TurboTim And this is why I want an EDC pump!
Your problem can pass to be the remap....
More than 5500rpm not everyone know how to do....but ask to the remaper...
RE: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - TurboTim - 09-10-2016
Not sure what you are saying but this is in an 87 300sdl. No stock ECU here. Wanted to use Buldar ECU
RE: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - 50harleyrider - 09-12-2016
This is an excellent thread. I have Baldurs' ecu and plan at first to max out the factory IP on my 606 and then if necessary, look to bigger elements when I start HP hunting through turbos,etc. It's been so hot in the US lately that I've been slow getting my rig running. I should spend money on AC in my garage rather than the projects. Baldurs' ecu will open up lots of fun stuff!
RE: Anyone got bigger elements for electronic M pump? - EvoPeter - 09-12-2016
Also had this problem. Thats why now sold my 8mm Pekka pump and bought myself a Baldur ECU and a EDC pump.