617 wont start
617 wont start
I've done A LOT of reading on here and other sites. I believe I need to check timing now, but here is a list of things I have done so far.
1. Adjust valves
2. Tested old glow plugs. I replaced all 5 and verified that they are working properly.
3. Replaced hand primer pump with updated black handle pump from junk yard.
4. Removed injection lines and cleaned them out at work in out solvent tank. I also removed injectors and pop tested them. All 5 were just streams of fuel rather than the mist. I found injectors at the junk yard with new looking nozzles. Bought them, took them home and pop tested them. All 5 junk yard injectors were 'like new' with almost perfect mist so I installed them. (After compression test, #6)
5. Removed delivery valves from engine. They were gummed up and pretty nasty. I replaced them with the junk yard delivery valves. These were in very nice shape and very clean so I figured why not.
6. Compression test. Not as high as I would like to have seen them, but high enough for it to run.
7. Before installing the injection lines, I turned over the engine with the starter, WOT. Fuel was obviously coming out of the delivery valves, but #1 was more of a dribble and the others didn't seem to have much pressure. (or as much as I thought they would/should)
So am I to checking timing and/or replacing IP? I've read that it is very rare for an IP to go bad, but with #7 issues, maybe that is where I should be looking?
Thanks for your help!
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
I bought this car 2 weeks ago. 82 300d with 263k. I bought it knowing it had trouble starting and wouldn't idle. Previous owner ran some sort of WVO in it. I plan to swap into my 2000 2wd s10 when I get it running properly.
I've done A LOT of reading on here and other sites. I believe I need to check timing now, but here is a list of things I have done so far.
1. Adjust valves
2. Tested old glow plugs. I replaced all 5 and verified that they are working properly.
3. Replaced hand primer pump with updated black handle pump from junk yard.
4. Removed injection lines and cleaned them out at work in out solvent tank. I also removed injectors and pop tested them. All 5 were just streams of fuel rather than the mist. I found injectors at the junk yard with new looking nozzles. Bought them, took them home and pop tested them. All 5 junk yard injectors were 'like new' with almost perfect mist so I installed them. (After compression test, #6)
5. Removed delivery valves from engine. They were gummed up and pretty nasty. I replaced them with the junk yard delivery valves. These were in very nice shape and very clean so I figured why not.
6. Compression test. Not as high as I would like to have seen them, but high enough for it to run.
7. Before installing the injection lines, I turned over the engine with the starter, WOT. Fuel was obviously coming out of the delivery valves, but #1 was more of a dribble and the others didn't seem to have much pressure. (or as much as I thought they would/should)
So am I to checking timing and/or replacing IP? I've read that it is very rare for an IP to go bad, but with #7 issues, maybe that is where I should be looking?
Thanks for your help!
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
I know folks are going to scream bloody murder, but have you thought about giving it the tiniest shot of something flammable. Not ether, but something not as "explosive". That might give it its boost. Caution however with this suggestion. Folks claim one super tiny blast will destroy an engine. I have never seen that, so who knows.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
If the PO ran junky grease and didn't run WVO correctly, you might have that crap causing a stoppage or a problem somewhere. WVO's chemistry is unique and that stuff can rubberize into some of the toughest stuff to get rid of. Personally, I love burning WVO but you will see folks come out of the woodwork to point out that's bad. So ...
I know folks are going to scream bloody murder, but have you thought about giving it the tiniest shot of something flammable. Not ether, but something not as "explosive". That might give it its boost. Caution however with this suggestion. Folks claim one super tiny blast will destroy an engine. I have never seen that, so who knows.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
(12-03-2012, 08:57 PM)Greazzer I know folks are going to scream bloody murder, but have you thought about giving it the tiniest shot of something flammable. Not ether, but something not as "explosive". That might give it its boost. Caution however with this suggestion. Folks claim one super tiny blast will destroy an engine. I have never seen that, so who knows.
I've had the glow plugs disconnected and the can of ether in my had, but was unsure about it. I read that it was a no no on these engines, but I don't really see what the difference is. I've worked in the fleet dept of the 'red and white label pop company' for years now and we use the stuff to start our semis all the time. I also had an idi ford a few inters back and a sniff of the ether bunny would bring it to life even on thee coldest days.
What other stuff would you suggest? Brake cleaner?
I wounder if Diesel Purge would help out with the clog? I suppose I need to get it running before that though, right?
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
(12-03-2012, 08:57 PM)Greazzer I know folks are going to scream bloody murder, but have you thought about giving it the tiniest shot of something flammable. Not ether, but something not as "explosive". That might give it its boost. Caution however with this suggestion. Folks claim one super tiny blast will destroy an engine. I have never seen that, so who knows.
I've had the glow plugs disconnected and the can of ether in my had, but was unsure about it. I read that it was a no no on these engines, but I don't really see what the difference is. I've worked in the fleet dept of the 'red and white label pop company' for years now and we use the stuff to start our semis all the time. I also had an idi ford a few inters back and a sniff of the ether bunny would bring it to life even on thee coldest days.
What other stuff would you suggest? Brake cleaner?
I wounder if Diesel Purge would help out with the clog? I suppose I need to get it running before that though, right?
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
do you have a block heater?
do you have a lot of battery on it?
I have a easier time starting with the block heated and if I hook up 2 of the 12v batteries to the starter.
Gets a lot better cranking speed then
I would pass on the ether.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
so will it not start at all? Or just runs shitty?
do you have a block heater?
do you have a lot of battery on it?
I have a easier time starting with the block heated and if I hook up 2 of the 12v batteries to the starter.
Gets a lot better cranking speed then
I would pass on the ether.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
I have used generic carb cleaner. It's not super volitle but its flammable. I am talking about a micro squirt.
I am not proud to admit it, but I used to own a 1984 Chevy Chevette with a Isuzu Diesel Engine. I used ether every day when I lived up north for years and never an issue. That car got over 200K miles before the old girl just died one day in the summer so I doubt it had anything to do with the ether. BUT, as I suggest, be cautious. People claim that one tiny tiny squirt and all 5 rods will shoot out the block ...
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
I would try to remove the steel lines (one assembly) and boil them in an old steel pot then blast them with compressed air. Real heat is the only thing that really gets rid of rubberized grease. Gas works too if you soak it long enough. I would set up a temporary tank out of an old juice bottle, 64 ouncer up front so you know your source of fuel. I would try to clean every aspect of the fueling system. I know it's a PITA, but once you get fuel, and you got compression, you should be up and running. I have burned a ton of grease in the past 4 years and I know that crap turns into the world's strongest rubber like goo and it really clings like death to parts if not properly burned and handled.
I have used generic carb cleaner. It's not super volitle but its flammable. I am talking about a micro squirt.
I am not proud to admit it, but I used to own a 1984 Chevy Chevette with a Isuzu Diesel Engine. I used ether every day when I lived up north for years and never an issue. That car got over 200K miles before the old girl just died one day in the summer so I doubt it had anything to do with the ether. BUT, as I suggest, be cautious. People claim that one tiny tiny squirt and all 5 rods will shoot out the block ...
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
WD40 is a "safe alternative to ether"
Sounds like the IP is gunked up-can you try running it on lubrimoly diesel purge cleaner stuff from a jar instead of diesel? That should also let it start easier
Heading the engine before starting (torpedo heater does the job real well) will make it spin over 500x
Glad to hear where you've started, those are all very educated places to look.
Have you replaced the spin-on fuel filter?
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
12-03-2012, 09:52 PM #6NEVER let an engine ingest brake cleaner-the chlorine will kill it. I don't care if it's labeled as chorline free just don't do it.
WD40 is a "safe alternative to ether"
Sounds like the IP is gunked up-can you try running it on lubrimoly diesel purge cleaner stuff from a jar instead of diesel? That should also let it start easier
Heading the engine before starting (torpedo heater does the job real well) will make it spin over 500x
Glad to hear where you've started, those are all very educated places to look.
Have you replaced the spin-on fuel filter?
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
--- WD40 will combust.
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
(12-03-2012, 09:19 PM)larsalan so will it not start at all? Or just runs shitty?
do you have a block heater?
do you have a lot of battery on it?
I have a easier time starting with the block heated and if I hook up 2 of the 12v batteries to the starter.
Gets a lot better cranking speed then
I would pass on the ether.
Yes, it has a block heater. I have not tried it though. And it doesn't want to start, but it does crank slower than what I think it should. I bet 2 batts make it spin over really quick. Haha
(12-03-2012, 09:27 PM)Greazzer I would try to remove the steel lines (one assembly) and boil them in an old steel pot then blast them with compressed air. Real heat is the only thing that really gets rid of rubberized grease. Gas works too if you soak it long enough. I would set up a temporary tank out of an old juice bottle, 64 ouncer up front so you know your source of fuel. I would try to clean every aspect of the fueling system. I know it's a PITA, but once you get fuel, and you got compression, you should be up and running. I have burned a ton of grease in the past 4 years and I know that crap turns into the world's strongest rubber like goo and it really clings like death to parts if not properly burned and handled.
I have used generic carb cleaner. It's not super volitle but its flammable. I am talking about a micro squirt.
I am not proud to admit it, but I used to own a 1984 Chevy Chevette with a Isuzu Diesel Engine. I used ether every day when I lived up north for years and never an issue. That car got over 200K miles before the old girl just died one day in the summer so I doubt it had anything to do with the ether. BUT, as I suggest, be cautious. People claim that one tiny tiny squirt and all 5 rods will shoot out the block ...
I took the steal lines off as an assy. Cleaned them out with compressed air at the shop, then used brake cleaner and heated solvent. Dried off using compressed air. Then they sat for a few days before I installed them again. They should be pretty clean inside. Really the only part of the fuel system that I haven't changed or cleaned out in some way is the IP. Also I have a gallon jug that I am running the fuel lines to. Completely bypassing the factory tank and fuel lines.
(12-03-2012, 09:52 PM)Simpler=Better NEVER let an engine ingest brake cleaner-the chlorine will kill it. I don't care if it's labeled as chorline free just don't do it.
WD40 is a "safe alternative to ether"
Sounds like the IP is gunked up-can you try running it on lubrimoly diesel purge cleaner stuff from a jar instead of diesel? That should also let it start easier
Heading the engine before starting (torpedo heater does the job real well) will make it spin over 500x
Glad to hear where you've started, those are all very educated places to look.
Have you replaced the spin-on fuel filter?
Yes I've replaced both filters. Spin on and in line. I don't have a heater big enough to do the job, but ill plug in the block heater when I vet home.
Also thanks for the wd40 tip.
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
(12-03-2012, 09:19 PM)larsalan so will it not start at all? Or just runs shitty?
do you have a block heater?
do you have a lot of battery on it?
I have a easier time starting with the block heated and if I hook up 2 of the 12v batteries to the starter.
Gets a lot better cranking speed then
I would pass on the ether.
Yes, it has a block heater. I have not tried it though. And it doesn't want to start, but it does crank slower than what I think it should. I bet 2 batts make it spin over really quick. Haha
(12-03-2012, 09:27 PM)Greazzer I would try to remove the steel lines (one assembly) and boil them in an old steel pot then blast them with compressed air. Real heat is the only thing that really gets rid of rubberized grease. Gas works too if you soak it long enough. I would set up a temporary tank out of an old juice bottle, 64 ouncer up front so you know your source of fuel. I would try to clean every aspect of the fueling system. I know it's a PITA, but once you get fuel, and you got compression, you should be up and running. I have burned a ton of grease in the past 4 years and I know that crap turns into the world's strongest rubber like goo and it really clings like death to parts if not properly burned and handled.
I have used generic carb cleaner. It's not super volitle but its flammable. I am talking about a micro squirt.
I am not proud to admit it, but I used to own a 1984 Chevy Chevette with a Isuzu Diesel Engine. I used ether every day when I lived up north for years and never an issue. That car got over 200K miles before the old girl just died one day in the summer so I doubt it had anything to do with the ether. BUT, as I suggest, be cautious. People claim that one tiny tiny squirt and all 5 rods will shoot out the block ...
I took the steal lines off as an assy. Cleaned them out with compressed air at the shop, then used brake cleaner and heated solvent. Dried off using compressed air. Then they sat for a few days before I installed them again. They should be pretty clean inside. Really the only part of the fuel system that I haven't changed or cleaned out in some way is the IP. Also I have a gallon jug that I am running the fuel lines to. Completely bypassing the factory tank and fuel lines.
(12-03-2012, 09:52 PM)Simpler=Better NEVER let an engine ingest brake cleaner-the chlorine will kill it. I don't care if it's labeled as chorline free just don't do it.
WD40 is a "safe alternative to ether"
Sounds like the IP is gunked up-can you try running it on lubrimoly diesel purge cleaner stuff from a jar instead of diesel? That should also let it start easier
Heading the engine before starting (torpedo heater does the job real well) will make it spin over 500x
Glad to hear where you've started, those are all very educated places to look.
Have you replaced the spin-on fuel filter?
Yes I've replaced both filters. Spin on and in line. I don't have a heater big enough to do the job, but ill plug in the block heater when I vet home.
Also thanks for the wd40 tip.
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
(12-03-2012, 08:57 PM)Greazzer If the PO ran junky grease and didn't run WVO correctly, you might have that crap causing a stoppage or a problem somewhere. WVO's chemistry is unique and that stuff can rubberize into some of the toughest stuff to get rid of. Personally, I love burning WVO but you will see folks come out of the woodwork to point out that's bad. So ...
I know folks are going to scream bloody murder, but have you thought about giving it the tiniest shot of something flammable. Not ether, but something not as "explosive". That might give it its boost. Caution however with this suggestion. Folks claim one super tiny blast will destroy an engine. I have never seen that, so who knows.
Sorry I had to LOL at this. I have heard a lot of stories of using ether to start a diesel engine.
The first is a friend went out to check a W123 from an old diesel mechanic. Wasn’t starting. He grabbed a can of starter fluid, gave it a shot direct into the intake, and it started right up.
Not two days ago I went to check out a 66 fintail sedan with an OM621 I4 diesel. (W110 200D). It was evident the car hadn’t been started in years. Upon examining the intake, there was a small inlet glued into the rubber intake hose between the filter and the engine. It had a rubber cap on it. Welp we put two and two together and gave it a shot of ether. I kid you not, within one revolution the engine started up and kept going. W/O a glowplug cycle!
So in my opinion, I am not worried about starting fluid and diesels. But I encourage one to do their own research on the subject.
if it don’t blow black...take it back.
1982 300TDT 4 Speed 196K Standard Beige “VEGEWGN”. 300GD FW. Walbro FRC-8 Fuel Pump. ZadaTech LCD Boost, EGT, & Fuel Pressure gauge. Non-EGR Exhaust and Intake Manifold. 3/2 Valves gone. Soon to have Elsbett WVO conversion
1981 300D 314K Midnight Blue “The Blue Car”, Lovecrap system, owned 25 years+
1985 300TD White 198K “Betty White” Pure beauty
The VEGEWGN
(12-03-2012, 08:57 PM)Greazzer If the PO ran junky grease and didn't run WVO correctly, you might have that crap causing a stoppage or a problem somewhere. WVO's chemistry is unique and that stuff can rubberize into some of the toughest stuff to get rid of. Personally, I love burning WVO but you will see folks come out of the woodwork to point out that's bad. So ...
I know folks are going to scream bloody murder, but have you thought about giving it the tiniest shot of something flammable. Not ether, but something not as "explosive". That might give it its boost. Caution however with this suggestion. Folks claim one super tiny blast will destroy an engine. I have never seen that, so who knows.
Sorry I had to LOL at this. I have heard a lot of stories of using ether to start a diesel engine.
The first is a friend went out to check a W123 from an old diesel mechanic. Wasn’t starting. He grabbed a can of starter fluid, gave it a shot direct into the intake, and it started right up.
Not two days ago I went to check out a 66 fintail sedan with an OM621 I4 diesel. (W110 200D). It was evident the car hadn’t been started in years. Upon examining the intake, there was a small inlet glued into the rubber intake hose between the filter and the engine. It had a rubber cap on it. Welp we put two and two together and gave it a shot of ether. I kid you not, within one revolution the engine started up and kept going. W/O a glowplug cycle!
So in my opinion, I am not worried about starting fluid and diesels. But I encourage one to do their own research on the subject.
if it don’t blow black...take it back.
1982 300TDT 4 Speed 196K Standard Beige “VEGEWGN”. 300GD FW. Walbro FRC-8 Fuel Pump. ZadaTech LCD Boost, EGT, & Fuel Pressure gauge. Non-EGR Exhaust and Intake Manifold. 3/2 Valves gone. Soon to have Elsbett WVO conversion
1981 300D 314K Midnight Blue “The Blue Car”, Lovecrap system, owned 25 years+
1985 300TD White 198K “Betty White” Pure beauty
The VEGEWGN
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
12-04-2012, 01:42 AM #10The only bad thing I have heard about ether/starting fluid is when someone dumps a bunch in the intake (like they might do on a gas engine) and then it runs away and blows up. Other than that you're fine. Just use in moderation. I never had luck getting it all the way through the turbo to help start a OM617... just never helped.
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
(12-04-2012, 01:42 AM)Captain America The only bad thing I have heard about ether/starting fluid is when someone dumps a bunch in the intake (like they might do on a gas engine) and then it runs away and blows up. Other than that you're fine. Just use in moderation. I never had luck getting it all the way through the turbo to help start a OM617... just never helped.
In a pinch you can go through the EGR port (assuming it's already been opened & capped)
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
12-04-2012, 09:31 AM #11(12-04-2012, 01:42 AM)Captain America The only bad thing I have heard about ether/starting fluid is when someone dumps a bunch in the intake (like they might do on a gas engine) and then it runs away and blows up. Other than that you're fine. Just use in moderation. I never had luck getting it all the way through the turbo to help start a OM617... just never helped.
In a pinch you can go through the EGR port (assuming it's already been opened & capped)
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Now on something with glowplugs or like a cummins gridheater? I would definitely think twice (because of ignition before in the cylinders)
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
All that crap you hear about "oh don't use ether!!!" is bogus. We use ether on our pulling tractors all the time and they don't blow rods out the side of the block or run away. If you squirt to much, it will sound like its hydrolocking, but it evaporates and doesn't hurt anything. Also you have to use like a whole can to get it to do that
Now on something with glowplugs or like a cummins gridheater? I would definitely think twice (because of ignition before in the cylinders)
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Cylinder #1 is the last in the feed line so if you have less fuel there that would fit to a bad overflow valve scenario in theory.
Gruß
Volker
The overflow valve on the pump keeps the inside of the pump under feed pressure of ~1,2bar. If it doesn´t work correct the feed pressure is too low and you might have starting issues because the elements do not get filled properly.
Cylinder #1 is the last in the feed line so if you have less fuel there that would fit to a bad overflow valve scenario in theory.
Gruß
Volker
(12-05-2012, 03:07 AM)Volker407 The overflow valve on the pump keeps the inside of the pump under feed pressure of ~1,2bar. If it doesn´t work correct the feed pressure is too low and you might have starting issues because the elements do not get filled properly.
Cylinder #1 is the last in the feed line so if you have less fuel there that would fit to a bad overflow valve scenario in theory.
Gruß
Volker
Perfect! Thank you! Ill look into that.
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
(12-05-2012, 03:07 AM)Volker407 The overflow valve on the pump keeps the inside of the pump under feed pressure of ~1,2bar. If it doesn´t work correct the feed pressure is too low and you might have starting issues because the elements do not get filled properly.
Cylinder #1 is the last in the feed line so if you have less fuel there that would fit to a bad overflow valve scenario in theory.
Gruß
Volker
Perfect! Thank you! Ill look into that.
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
Perfect! Thank you! Ill look into that.
[/quote]
Hopefully you have the type that you can take apart and stretch the spring so you can get some more pressure in the ol girl
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
[/quote]
Perfect! Thank you! Ill look into that.
[/quote]
Hopefully you have the type that you can take apart and stretch the spring so you can get some more pressure in the ol girl
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I think I should put an IP on it. With how gummed up the original DVs were and now seeing how gummed up the overflow valve was, I can only imagine how nasty inside the pump is.
Anyone have a link for IP removal? I read that you have to pull the oil filter housing off, but cant find any info on if I have to remove the nut on the front of the IP shaft or if it just slides out when removing the pump bolts on the outside.
Thanks for your help so far guys! Keep it coming!
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
Pulled it off, took it apart and stretched the spring. Cleaned it up (had A LOT of crap inside it) Put it back in and cranked the engine. Seemed to help a little but still not as much flow from #1 as the others. Took the DVs back out just to make sure I installed them correctly and they were. I think I need to adjust the pump linkage. Seems that with my foot off the throttle, it doesn't pump at all and with my foot pressing down on the pedal a little and it squirts.
I think I should put an IP on it. With how gummed up the original DVs were and now seeing how gummed up the overflow valve was, I can only imagine how nasty inside the pump is.
Anyone have a link for IP removal? I read that you have to pull the oil filter housing off, but cant find any info on if I have to remove the nut on the front of the IP shaft or if it just slides out when removing the pump bolts on the outside.
Thanks for your help so far guys! Keep it coming!
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
Hopefully the one by the oil filter is not even there, then you're in luck. All are 13mm and you maybe need some sockets, extensions, shorty open ends.
I guess you're supposed to turn the crank to that 24 BTDC. There are marks on the balancer. Then also look at the cam lobes on the front most cylinder. Look to see that they are pointy side generally upward. Cause I guess the cam turns 2 times for every 1 time the crank turns.
Anyway this is all to try and make sure the pump comes off in its designated removal/replacement position.
You do not have to take the oil filter housing off provided you can get all the 4 bolt/nuts off. 3 in front 1 in back.
Just kinda jostle and pull back and tilt the rear of the IP upward and you can get it in/out with relative ease.
Did you try and get a big 12v jump? Heat up the block? ether?
That IP must be out of time if all that stuff won't do it.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
there are 3 nut/bolt things by the front of the IP/block and 1 bitch of a nut at the back of the IP by the oil filter housing.
Hopefully the one by the oil filter is not even there, then you're in luck. All are 13mm and you maybe need some sockets, extensions, shorty open ends.
I guess you're supposed to turn the crank to that 24 BTDC. There are marks on the balancer. Then also look at the cam lobes on the front most cylinder. Look to see that they are pointy side generally upward. Cause I guess the cam turns 2 times for every 1 time the crank turns.
Anyway this is all to try and make sure the pump comes off in its designated removal/replacement position.
You do not have to take the oil filter housing off provided you can get all the 4 bolt/nuts off. 3 in front 1 in back.
Just kinda jostle and pull back and tilt the rear of the IP upward and you can get it in/out with relative ease.
Did you try and get a big 12v jump? Heat up the block? ether?
That IP must be out of time if all that stuff won't do it.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
(12-05-2012, 10:04 PM)larsalan there are 3 nut/bolt things by the front of the IP/block and 1 bitch of a nut at the back of the IP by the oil filter housing.
Hopefully the one by the oil filter is not even there, then you're in luck. All are 13mm and you maybe need some sockets, extensions, shorty open ends.
I guess you're supposed to turn the crank to that 24 BTDC. There are marks on the balancer. Then also look at the cam lobes on the front most cylinder. Look to see that they are pointy side generally upward. Cause I guess the cam turns 2 times for every 1 time the crank turns.
Anyway this is all to try and make sure the pump comes off in its designated removal/replacement position.
You do not have to take the oil filter housing off provided you can get all the 4 bolt/nuts off. 3 in front 1 in back.
Just kinda jostle and pull back and tilt the rear of the IP upward and you can get it in/out with relative ease.
Did you try and get a big 12v jump? Heat up the block? ether?
That IP must be out of time if all that stuff won't do it.
Thanks for the info. I didn't try starting it, I was just cranking it over with the injection lines off to see how much fuel was coming out of the delivery valves on all 5. If I had a sufficient about of fuel I was going to put the lines on and try firing it up. I got a pair of 1000 cca batteries from work. Ill hook em both up and hit the key. Should spin it over pretty good.
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
(12-05-2012, 10:04 PM)larsalan there are 3 nut/bolt things by the front of the IP/block and 1 bitch of a nut at the back of the IP by the oil filter housing.
Hopefully the one by the oil filter is not even there, then you're in luck. All are 13mm and you maybe need some sockets, extensions, shorty open ends.
I guess you're supposed to turn the crank to that 24 BTDC. There are marks on the balancer. Then also look at the cam lobes on the front most cylinder. Look to see that they are pointy side generally upward. Cause I guess the cam turns 2 times for every 1 time the crank turns.
Anyway this is all to try and make sure the pump comes off in its designated removal/replacement position.
You do not have to take the oil filter housing off provided you can get all the 4 bolt/nuts off. 3 in front 1 in back.
Just kinda jostle and pull back and tilt the rear of the IP upward and you can get it in/out with relative ease.
Did you try and get a big 12v jump? Heat up the block? ether?
That IP must be out of time if all that stuff won't do it.
Thanks for the info. I didn't try starting it, I was just cranking it over with the injection lines off to see how much fuel was coming out of the delivery valves on all 5. If I had a sufficient about of fuel I was going to put the lines on and try firing it up. I got a pair of 1000 cca batteries from work. Ill hook em both up and hit the key. Should spin it over pretty good.
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
Maybe some of that injector cleaner snake oil.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
yeah the 2 batteries and a hot block ought to do it. I would say run it with some clean fuel. Maybe a tankfull to to try and wash out the gunk.
Maybe some of that injector cleaner snake oil.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
(12-06-2012, 06:56 AM)Volker407 You could try to just drive it for at least one tank. I have already used a mixture of
70% diesel
20% low octane gasoline fuel
5% 2 stroke oil
5% fully synthetic engine oil 5W-30
with good sucess
Gruß
Volker
(12-06-2012, 08:02 AM)larsalan yeah the 2 batteries and a hot block ought to do it. I would say run it with some clean fuel. Maybe a tankfull to to try and wash out the gunk.
Maybe some of that injector cleaner snake oil.
Thanks guys. As far as driving it, I can't because I don't have insurance on it or even the title in my name. I just planned on getting the engine running to swap into my s10. I will run it though to try and clean it out. I have some diesel purge coming early next week but in the mean time, ill try the mixture there.
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
(12-06-2012, 06:56 AM)Volker407 You could try to just drive it for at least one tank. I have already used a mixture of
70% diesel
20% low octane gasoline fuel
5% 2 stroke oil
5% fully synthetic engine oil 5W-30
with good sucess
Gruß
Volker
(12-06-2012, 08:02 AM)larsalan yeah the 2 batteries and a hot block ought to do it. I would say run it with some clean fuel. Maybe a tankfull to to try and wash out the gunk.
Maybe some of that injector cleaner snake oil.
Thanks guys. As far as driving it, I can't because I don't have insurance on it or even the title in my name. I just planned on getting the engine running to swap into my s10. I will run it though to try and clean it out. I have some diesel purge coming early next week but in the mean time, ill try the mixture there.
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
95% diesel
like 3.5% acetone
and then minor amounts of whatever magic chemical is supposed to clean out the fuel system.
kinda expensive stuff
other people say trans fluid or turpentine do a good job of cleaning.
who knows.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
If you read that diesel purge can you'll see that it made of.
95% diesel
like 3.5% acetone
and then minor amounts of whatever magic chemical is supposed to clean out the fuel system.
kinda expensive stuff
other people say trans fluid or turpentine do a good job of cleaning.
who knows.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
Plugged in the block heater this morning, then this afternoon I put the injection lines on and bled the system. Hooked up 2 batteries in parallel and tried to start it. It started and ran for a second then shut off. Did it again twice then it wouldn't even act like it wanted to start. Starting to get very frustrated with it. I want to get it warm then try putting the diesel purge through it since the pump will be warm and the old Bio garbage will be soft. Thought about using a propane torch on the side of the pump to heat it and loosen up the gunk inside it. Think it would help?
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
(12-12-2012, 08:14 AM)larsalan yeah sounds like no fuel, right. Did you say you cracked open the injector lines? Any fuel there while you turn it over?Yes, I cracked them, seems to be getting fuel to all of them but not sure if some are getting more than others. Like I said before when I had the injection lines off I cranked it over at WOT to see how much fuel was coming from each port on the pump. Not all were contributing the same amount. I was hoping to put the lines on and get it running enough to get it warm so when I switched to diesel purge it would already be warm and easy to start on the dp. I also figured it would loosen up the bio garbage and make it more likely to be cleaned by dp.
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
(12-12-2012, 08:14 AM)larsalan yeah sounds like no fuel, right. Did you say you cracked open the injector lines? Any fuel there while you turn it over?Yes, I cracked them, seems to be getting fuel to all of them but not sure if some are getting more than others. Like I said before when I had the injection lines off I cranked it over at WOT to see how much fuel was coming from each port on the pump. Not all were contributing the same amount. I was hoping to put the lines on and get it running enough to get it warm so when I switched to diesel purge it would already be warm and easy to start on the dp. I also figured it would loosen up the bio garbage and make it more likely to be cleaned by dp.
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
hmm, I dunno. Sounds good that it fired at all.
and it's running off a jug, not the tank, so that's all clear.
and fuel is pumping back into the jug over the return line?
I push no fuel pedal while cranking. And even when the motor begins to fire I hold on cranking till such time that the motor can start to out speed the starter.
Can hold on the cranking of the starter for I would say maybe not exceeding 45seconds. Try not to burn up the starter
How long did you hear it to try and start? Any good smoke coming out?
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
I never heard of such an idea to put a torch on the IP. I would prolly skip that too. I can't foresee much chance of success.
hmm, I dunno. Sounds good that it fired at all.
and it's running off a jug, not the tank, so that's all clear.
and fuel is pumping back into the jug over the return line?
I push no fuel pedal while cranking. And even when the motor begins to fire I hold on cranking till such time that the motor can start to out speed the starter.
Can hold on the cranking of the starter for I would say maybe not exceeding 45seconds. Try not to burn up the starter
How long did you hear it to try and start? Any good smoke coming out?
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
A torpedo heater can be used to warm up the block if you don't have a block heater.
I have used a propane torch on the oil pan on a 617 to warm it up (was out in the boonies) but that was at -4°F and I was desperate. It's really easy to overdo it and burn the oil on the other side of the pan.
DO NOT heat up the IP-you will do damage.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
12-12-2012, 09:25 AM #30Sputtering is a good sign. Recharge those batteries, and double check your glow plugs.
A torpedo heater can be used to warm up the block if you don't have a block heater.
I have used a propane torch on the oil pan on a 617 to warm it up (was out in the boonies) but that was at -4°F and I was desperate. It's really easy to overdo it and burn the oil on the other side of the pan.
DO NOT heat up the IP-you will do damage.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
(12-12-2012, 08:33 AM)larsalan I never heard of such an idea to put a torch on the IP. I would prolly skip that too. I can't foresee much chance of success.I hold the pedal at WOT when I crank it. It ran for about 3-5 seconds all 3 times.
hmm, I dunno. Sounds good that it fired at all.
and it's running off a jug, not the tank, so that's all clear.
and fuel is pumping back into the jug over the return line?
I push no fuel pedal while cranking. And even when the motor begins to fire I hold on cranking till such time that the motor can start to out speed the starter.
Can hold on the cranking of the starter for I would say maybe not exceeding 45seconds. Try not to burn up the starter
How long did you hear it to try and start? Any good smoke coming out?
And it has more grey color smoke than black.
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
I wasn't talking about getting the pump red hot, I just meant going back and forth on the pump to get it warm to the touch, not hot.
(12-12-2012, 08:33 AM)larsalan I never heard of such an idea to put a torch on the IP. I would prolly skip that too. I can't foresee much chance of success.I hold the pedal at WOT when I crank it. It ran for about 3-5 seconds all 3 times.
hmm, I dunno. Sounds good that it fired at all.
and it's running off a jug, not the tank, so that's all clear.
and fuel is pumping back into the jug over the return line?
I push no fuel pedal while cranking. And even when the motor begins to fire I hold on cranking till such time that the motor can start to out speed the starter.
Can hold on the cranking of the starter for I would say maybe not exceeding 45seconds. Try not to burn up the starter
How long did you hear it to try and start? Any good smoke coming out?
And it has more grey color smoke than black.
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
That is how my pump seems to work but yours could work a bit different. It is seeming to be that if you hold the throttle open while the motor/pump are at such a slow pace...
That the pump is able to spray way more fuel than it is able to retrieve with the lift pump.
Based on my intuition not on actual measuring
If it is starting to run for 3-5 seconds keep the starter going till it is clearly running well without it.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
try it my way, no pedal till it begins to try and fire. Then, if you do give some throttle maybe it catches or maybe it falters.
That is how my pump seems to work but yours could work a bit different. It is seeming to be that if you hold the throttle open while the motor/pump are at such a slow pace...
That the pump is able to spray way more fuel than it is able to retrieve with the lift pump.
Based on my intuition not on actual measuring
If it is starting to run for 3-5 seconds keep the starter going till it is clearly running well without it.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
12-13-2012, 03:43 PM #33I say try a shot of ether without glowing the plugs to get it going. I went through almost a can on an almond shaker this summer that was having problems (seal in ip started disintegrating affecting fuel pressure) and nothing bad happened, and my friend uses it all the time in his diesel rabbit ('79) and it still runs.
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
I keep telling myself I just have air in the lines from switching fuel sources. I did crank it for a while. Don't worry fellas, didn't overheat the starter....
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
Started up today, ran till op temp. Switched to diesel purge, and it refused to start. :ranton I'm gonna crush this bastard I swear!!
I keep telling myself I just have air in the lines from switching fuel sources. I did crank it for a while. Don't worry fellas, didn't overheat the starter....
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
12-20-2012, 08:57 AM #35You do have air in the lines. Check the crush washers on the spin-on filter connection-they might be leaking.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
Been a while, I pulled the engine and trans out a week ago and scrapped the car, it was rusting in half where it sat haha. So now that its warming up I'm going to put it on a stand and attempt to get it running. Is there anything I could soak the pump in to free up some of the gunk built up in there? I'm going to diesel purge the crap out of it when I get it running but didn't know if there was anything I could do in the meantime?
02 lb7 4x4 efiLive
82 w123
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
04-17-2013, 11:14 PM #37Pump the primer pump like 50 times after you disconnect any lines! until is almost impossible to pump any more then try and start. I have also pumped while cranking to help push more fuel in there.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
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