New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D
New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D
Guys, about tomorrow, the rain, if we get any at all, will be over by 9:00 AM leaving us with a nice day with cool temps, perfect for racing! The lesser men will be staying home, leaving us with the track to ourselves! The track's website still hasn't canceled the day, so it's on! Anyone who is going, PM me your number so we'll be able to connect at the track!
Regards, Eric
Late update! The track has now canceled the drags for tomorrow/today due to a slight amount of rain forecast for the very early morning hours! The wimps! They have now added a date three weeks from tomorrow/today.
Regards, Eric
They were scared of my car... That's why lol
I guess I should have read this before I woke up this morning at 4:30
Oh well, guess I need to clean the garage then
3 weeks would be the weekend before Thanksgiving right, might work out...
(10-24-2010, 09:51 PM)Captain America Pete has a Mustang dyno first off, which is better (more accurate/ real world numbers) than a Dyno Jet. ... Oh, and if your worried about not having Dyno Jet numbers for previous comparison, he can convert the real world numbers over to the over inflated Dyno Jet numbers for ya.LOL! I've heard exactly the opposite, that DynoJet generally tends to have lower (more realistic) numbers than Mustang. Also remember that there are multiple different types/models of each dyno, i.e. not all Dynojets are the same, nor are all Mustangs the same. If you really want to know how accurate the dyno is, get the exact model from the shop, and do some Googling on that specific model. Even then it's a gray area as the dyno has to be calibrated after installation and if they screw up the calibration, the numbers may not compare well to other dynos, even one of the same mfr / model. In summary, it's best to use the dyno as a tuning tool, and always use the same dyno. It doesn't matter if it reads 100hp or 500hp, after you make a change if it reads 110hp or 550hp, you still got a 10% power increase. The dragstrip is the final equalizer, the dyno numbers are irrelevant if you can't get the power to the ground.
(10-24-2010, 09:51 PM)Captain America Pete has a Mustang dyno first off, which is better (more accurate/ real world numbers) than a Dyno Jet. ... Oh, and if your worried about not having Dyno Jet numbers for previous comparison, he can convert the real world numbers over to the over inflated Dyno Jet numbers for ya.LOL! I've heard exactly the opposite, that DynoJet generally tends to have lower (more realistic) numbers than Mustang. Also remember that there are multiple different types/models of each dyno, i.e. not all Dynojets are the same, nor are all Mustangs the same. If you really want to know how accurate the dyno is, get the exact model from the shop, and do some Googling on that specific model. Even then it's a gray area as the dyno has to be calibrated after installation and if they screw up the calibration, the numbers may not compare well to other dynos, even one of the same mfr / model. In summary, it's best to use the dyno as a tuning tool, and always use the same dyno. It doesn't matter if it reads 100hp or 500hp, after you make a change if it reads 110hp or 550hp, you still got a 10% power increase. The dragstrip is the final equalizer, the dyno numbers are irrelevant if you can't get the power to the ground.
(10-30-2010, 11:24 AM)gsxr(10-24-2010, 09:51 PM)Captain America Pete has a Mustang dyno first off, which is better (more accurate/ real world numbers) than a Dyno Jet. ... Oh, and if your worried about not having Dyno Jet numbers for previous comparison, he can convert the real world numbers over to the over inflated Dyno Jet numbers for ya.LOL! I've heard exactly the opposite, that DynoJet generally tends to have lower (more realistic) numbers than Mustang. Also remember that there are multiple different types/models of each dyno, i.e. not all Dynojets are the same, nor are all Mustangs the same. If you really want to know how accurate the dyno is, get the exact model from the shop, and do some Googling on that specific model. Even then it's a gray area as the dyno has to be calibrated after installation and if they screw up the calibration, the numbers may not compare well to other dynos, even one of the same mfr / model. In summary, it's best to use the dyno as a tuning tool, and always use the same dyno. It doesn't matter if it reads 100hp or 500hp, after you make a change if it reads 110hp or 550hp, you still got a 10% power increase. The dragstrip is the final equalizer, the dyno numbers are irrelevant if you can't get the power to the ground.
About the 3rd/4th gear thing. Something is screwy there. Justin should definitely have been able to get good runs in 3rd gear with NOS activated. I'm not sure what was going on. There shouldn't have been such a discrepancy between the runs n teh diesel, either. I've done runs in two different gears on my E420 and the difference was 1-3% at most. A 10% delta is huge. Maybe that dyno has lightweight rollers (TOO light weight) and cannot properly load up higher-power cars? It might work fine on low-torque ricers but wouldn't work as well on high-torque diesels or juiced M119's.
BTW, as y'all learned the hard way, the 722.3/722.4 tranny needs both the Bowden cable AND the kickdown solenoid disconnected to keep it in 3rd gear at low RPM's. I unplug the solenoid at home and the Bowden cable at the dyno to keep things simple, while retaining driveability to & from the shop.
If anyone can locate a wire that will work with the dyno's electrical tach input, PLEASE let us know. The optical sensor is a PITA and loses signal about half the time - a real annoyance. I thought it needed a high-voltage signal from a plug wire, but if it will work with a low-voltage signal, we could try the flywheel speed sensor....
(10-30-2010, 11:24 AM)gsxr(10-24-2010, 09:51 PM)Captain America Pete has a Mustang dyno first off, which is better (more accurate/ real world numbers) than a Dyno Jet. ... Oh, and if your worried about not having Dyno Jet numbers for previous comparison, he can convert the real world numbers over to the over inflated Dyno Jet numbers for ya.LOL! I've heard exactly the opposite, that DynoJet generally tends to have lower (more realistic) numbers than Mustang. Also remember that there are multiple different types/models of each dyno, i.e. not all Dynojets are the same, nor are all Mustangs the same. If you really want to know how accurate the dyno is, get the exact model from the shop, and do some Googling on that specific model. Even then it's a gray area as the dyno has to be calibrated after installation and if they screw up the calibration, the numbers may not compare well to other dynos, even one of the same mfr / model. In summary, it's best to use the dyno as a tuning tool, and always use the same dyno. It doesn't matter if it reads 100hp or 500hp, after you make a change if it reads 110hp or 550hp, you still got a 10% power increase. The dragstrip is the final equalizer, the dyno numbers are irrelevant if you can't get the power to the ground.
About the 3rd/4th gear thing. Something is screwy there. Justin should definitely have been able to get good runs in 3rd gear with NOS activated. I'm not sure what was going on. There shouldn't have been such a discrepancy between the runs n teh diesel, either. I've done runs in two different gears on my E420 and the difference was 1-3% at most. A 10% delta is huge. Maybe that dyno has lightweight rollers (TOO light weight) and cannot properly load up higher-power cars? It might work fine on low-torque ricers but wouldn't work as well on high-torque diesels or juiced M119's.
BTW, as y'all learned the hard way, the 722.3/722.4 tranny needs both the Bowden cable AND the kickdown solenoid disconnected to keep it in 3rd gear at low RPM's. I unplug the solenoid at home and the Bowden cable at the dyno to keep things simple, while retaining driveability to & from the shop.
If anyone can locate a wire that will work with the dyno's electrical tach input, PLEASE let us know. The optical sensor is a PITA and loses signal about half the time - a real annoyance. I thought it needed a high-voltage signal from a plug wire, but if it will work with a low-voltage signal, we could try the flywheel speed sensor....
(10-30-2010, 08:56 PM)Captain America ALL runs should be done only in the gear that is closest to 1:1 or the dyno will falsely read higher or lower numbers than what the motor actually makes.
(10-30-2010, 08:56 PM)Captain America ALL runs should be done only in the gear that is closest to 1:1 or the dyno will falsely read higher or lower numbers than what the motor actually makes.
Same with the 4spd manuals as well
Cool. I thought it was third gear on these cars (auto)...
If you need a rpm output, find the tach wire in the dash and vampire it/solder a pigtail to it.
If it needs to be 12V or isolated or etc for the dyno it shouldn't be too hard to do.
On all the 722.x transmissions, fourth gear is 1:1. But that isn't realistic for higher-powered, high-RPM cars like a 500E which would spin to ~165mph if the speed limiter is removed. There's no need for spinning the dyno that fast. The 400E is even more ridiculous due to the 2.24 axle ratio. That's why 3rd gear is most commonly used on a Mercedes with 722.x auto and gearing between 2.65-3.27 (approx).
On the 400E with 2.24 gears, it's best to use 2nd gear. I dynod my E420 in both 2nd and 3rd gear and the difference was minimal, the curves were the same shape. The 3rd gear run was down 1% in peak power but up 3% in peak torque compared to the 2nd gear runs. The 3rd gear run also hit the 130mph top-speed limiter during one test (I later bypassed this to get full graphs for comparison).
I'll check the tach signal. It's an inductive sensor at the flywheel below the starter on a 60x engine, and the wiring goes past the battery area on the way to the tach. Should be easy to tap into and see if that signal makes the dyno happy.
I'd tap in after the tach amp, where it goes to the dash. otherwise you might atttenuate the signal to the point the tach amp freaks out.
Also, I'd think the amp would divide down the 140 or whatever pulses per rotation to a more manageable signal to send to the tach as well.
That assumes it picks up off of the ring gear, and not some other reference.
It depends on the year before 1984 its off the crank balancer I believe?
What kind of signal does a dyno expect? I can probably put something together to convert the tach amp output to whatever it expects.
(11-02-2010, 11:48 AM)300SD81 What kind of signal does a dyno expect? I can probably put something together to convert the tach amp output to whatever it expects.
(11-02-2010, 11:48 AM)300SD81 What kind of signal does a dyno expect? I can probably put something together to convert the tach amp output to whatever it expects.
Yeah or 5volt square wave signal like what comes out of an MSD CD box...
Captain, what's happening with the new dyno day you are organizing? Please don't forget that we have two track days coming up on 11/20/10 and 12/4/10, so to protect turn-out, don't use those days.
Regards, Eric
you are the man! mocked up a sticker to put on your car. my 4 yo daughter calls it the dancing pig ... maybe killer boar is more appropriate
if you can get some hoosier tires cheap/free, there may be some dedicated nasa/scca teams letting those go.
stating the obvious, but what a build!
The next drag strip date is 01/08/11!
Regards, Eric
(01-11-2011, 12:22 AM)ForcedInduction Any dyno?
x10? LOL
I have been pretty busy working and doing other things with my time, being constructive and NOT harassing others if you know what I what I elude to...I don't really have much time to do much work on the car right now or play games on the internet - this is the first time I have posted anywhere in weeks.
Uh, he did go to the dyno - unfortunately the wrong dyno, as the operator seemed to have issues and not know what he was doing (i.e., how to use an optical sensor to get an RPM signal; or how to get good numbers in 3rd gear).
See posts 560, 591, and 599. 175hp at the wheels, which is about 210-215hp at the crank. A bit less than expected, but definitely more than 125hp...
unrelated except as a celebration that speed matters ... and it would be nice to see a 2nd diesel benz on speedhunters.com ...
http://speedhunters.com/archive/2011/01/...-ke70.aspx
a volvo t5 powered corolla ...
note the side exhuast ... hint ... hint ... possible to have this coming out the passenger or driver side?
what if y deleted the rear seats, installed a cage, racing seats and the car went on a weight watchers diet?
(10-25-2010, 03:42 PM)Captain America Ok so I just got done talking with Pete @ WOT. We are go for a dyno day if you guys want to do another. He's got the optical sensor to get the RPM signal. He said that setting up the optical takes a bit of time so sometimes its easeir to set the engine RPM in the dyno computer based on roll speed which he said works out well. It would be $50 a car for 3 runs. He said with his schedualling a sunday would work out better (didn't think that would be an issue ). Also said that the gas Benz's with traction control can be tricky because the computer trips out when the front wheels are not turning, I dunno if this is a known problem or not... anyway, if we wanna come up with a date we are good to go. I would definitely be there with my POS so that would count as one.
(10-25-2010, 03:42 PM)Captain America Ok so I just got done talking with Pete @ WOT. We are go for a dyno day if you guys want to do another. He's got the optical sensor to get the RPM signal. He said that setting up the optical takes a bit of time so sometimes its easeir to set the engine RPM in the dyno computer based on roll speed which he said works out well. It would be $50 a car for 3 runs. He said with his schedualling a sunday would work out better (didn't think that would be an issue ). Also said that the gas Benz's with traction control can be tricky because the computer trips out when the front wheels are not turning, I dunno if this is a known problem or not... anyway, if we wanna come up with a date we are good to go. I would definitely be there with my POS so that would count as one.
(02-11-2011, 04:41 AM)400Eric Totally off topic but this isn't worth starting a new thread over: Whoever that was at the 60/215/91 interchange tonight (I hope that wasn't you Captain), you didn't need to turn our little brawl into a full fledged road rage incident. My 400E is a 93, the last year without a cabin filter. I was just simply trying to get around you so I could prevent subjecting my wife and 2 kids to your prodigious diesel fumes. I also had a new air compressor in the trunk along with three tires with rims, and loads of groceries and other stuff. The car was packed solid but we still spanked you anyways. That area is heavily patroled by the revenuers (ask me how I know), so in the future, chill. If I didn't have the wife and kids with me I maybe wouldn't have minded, but you took it too far. No hard feelings, but please try to chill a bit. Getting laid might do you some good. Try it.
Regards, Eric
(02-11-2011, 04:41 AM)400Eric Totally off topic but this isn't worth starting a new thread over: Whoever that was at the 60/215/91 interchange tonight (I hope that wasn't you Captain), you didn't need to turn our little brawl into a full fledged road rage incident. My 400E is a 93, the last year without a cabin filter. I was just simply trying to get around you so I could prevent subjecting my wife and 2 kids to your prodigious diesel fumes. I also had a new air compressor in the trunk along with three tires with rims, and loads of groceries and other stuff. The car was packed solid but we still spanked you anyways. That area is heavily patroled by the revenuers (ask me how I know), so in the future, chill. If I didn't have the wife and kids with me I maybe wouldn't have minded, but you took it too far. No hard feelings, but please try to chill a bit. Getting laid might do you some good. Try it.
Regards, Eric
(02-11-2011, 04:41 AM)400Eric(10-25-2010, 03:42 PM)Captain America Ok so I just got done talking with Pete @ WOT. We are go for a dyno day if you guys want to do another. He's got the optical sensor to get the RPM signal. He said that setting up the optical takes a bit of time so sometimes its easeir to set the engine RPM in the dyno computer based on roll speed which he said works out well. It would be $50 a car for 3 runs. He said with his schedualling a sunday would work out better (didn't think that would be an issue ). Also said that the gas Benz's with traction control can be tricky because the computer trips out when the front wheels are not turning, I dunno if this is a known problem or not... anyway, if we wanna come up with a date we are good to go. I would definitely be there with my POS so that would count as one.
Where are we with this? Let's do another dyno day at your buddy's shop! I have a new ignition controller I want to test thanks to GSXR, and you guys need to try this guy's Mustang dyno because of what I just read in Hot Rod: "Types of chassis dynos
Dynos can be categorized as either inertia, hydraulic, or electric. An inertia dyno can only do full-throttle acceleration runs, but the best load-bearing hydraulic and electric dynos can do step tests, constant-speed pulls, and even part-throttle testing so that full road-load simulations can be conducted right on the dyno."
"Inertia Dyno: These extrapolate rear-wheel power output by analyzing the dyno drum's acceleration rate using a sophisticated accelerometer and computer software. A vehicle is placed on the dyno with its drive wheels sitting on heavy roller drums of known mass. The car is placed in gear and accelerated at wide-open throttle. It takes a certain amount of time and force for the tires to accelerate the rollers. The acceleration rate is directly proportional to how much power the tires place on the heavy roller to get it to rotate. Inertia dynos have the reputation for reading "high." Generally, with mainstream vehicles in the 3,500-pound class, they'll yield consistent results with minimal setup time. They may have trouble obtaining accurate results with extremely heavy or light vehicles. Turbocharged engines won't build boost as they do in the real world. Dynojet is the most common pure-inertia dyno (some of its newest models have an eddy-current option)." (The whole article is here: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/gener...index.html
What this means is that all of you with turbos may not have gotten accurate info at our last dyno day cause that place only has a regular Dynojet. We need to go have a dyno day at Captain's buddy's place cause he has a Mustang dyno!
Totally off topic but this isn't worth starting a new thread over: Whoever that was at the 60/215/91 interchange tonight (I hope that wasn't you Captain), you didn't need to turn our little brawl into a full fledged road rage incident. My 400E is a 93, the last year without a cabin filter. I was just simply trying to get around you so I could prevent subjecting my wife and 2 kids to your prodigious diesel fumes. I also had a new air compressor in the trunk along with three tires with rims, and loads of groceries and other stuff. The car was packed solid but we still spanked you anyways. That area is heavily patroled by the revenuers (ask me how I know), so in the future, chill. If I didn't have the wife and kids with me I maybe wouldn't have minded, but you took it too far. No hard feelings, but please try to chill a bit. Getting laid might do you some good. Try it.
Regards, Eric
(02-11-2011, 04:41 AM)400Eric(10-25-2010, 03:42 PM)Captain America Ok so I just got done talking with Pete @ WOT. We are go for a dyno day if you guys want to do another. He's got the optical sensor to get the RPM signal. He said that setting up the optical takes a bit of time so sometimes its easeir to set the engine RPM in the dyno computer based on roll speed which he said works out well. It would be $50 a car for 3 runs. He said with his schedualling a sunday would work out better (didn't think that would be an issue ). Also said that the gas Benz's with traction control can be tricky because the computer trips out when the front wheels are not turning, I dunno if this is a known problem or not... anyway, if we wanna come up with a date we are good to go. I would definitely be there with my POS so that would count as one.
Where are we with this? Let's do another dyno day at your buddy's shop! I have a new ignition controller I want to test thanks to GSXR, and you guys need to try this guy's Mustang dyno because of what I just read in Hot Rod: "Types of chassis dynos
Dynos can be categorized as either inertia, hydraulic, or electric. An inertia dyno can only do full-throttle acceleration runs, but the best load-bearing hydraulic and electric dynos can do step tests, constant-speed pulls, and even part-throttle testing so that full road-load simulations can be conducted right on the dyno."
"Inertia Dyno: These extrapolate rear-wheel power output by analyzing the dyno drum's acceleration rate using a sophisticated accelerometer and computer software. A vehicle is placed on the dyno with its drive wheels sitting on heavy roller drums of known mass. The car is placed in gear and accelerated at wide-open throttle. It takes a certain amount of time and force for the tires to accelerate the rollers. The acceleration rate is directly proportional to how much power the tires place on the heavy roller to get it to rotate. Inertia dynos have the reputation for reading "high." Generally, with mainstream vehicles in the 3,500-pound class, they'll yield consistent results with minimal setup time. They may have trouble obtaining accurate results with extremely heavy or light vehicles. Turbocharged engines won't build boost as they do in the real world. Dynojet is the most common pure-inertia dyno (some of its newest models have an eddy-current option)." (The whole article is here: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/gener...index.html
What this means is that all of you with turbos may not have gotten accurate info at our last dyno day cause that place only has a regular Dynojet. We need to go have a dyno day at Captain's buddy's place cause he has a Mustang dyno!
Totally off topic but this isn't worth starting a new thread over: Whoever that was at the 60/215/91 interchange tonight (I hope that wasn't you Captain), you didn't need to turn our little brawl into a full fledged road rage incident. My 400E is a 93, the last year without a cabin filter. I was just simply trying to get around you so I could prevent subjecting my wife and 2 kids to your prodigious diesel fumes. I also had a new air compressor in the trunk along with three tires with rims, and loads of groceries and other stuff. The car was packed solid but we still spanked you anyways. That area is heavily patroled by the revenuers (ask me how I know), so in the future, chill. If I didn't have the wife and kids with me I maybe wouldn't have minded, but you took it too far. No hard feelings, but please try to chill a bit. Getting laid might do you some good. Try it.
Regards, Eric
All I can say is it was a W123 sedan. I don't know if it was green or gray or silver or charcoal colored.
Maybe it was the guy above who is laughing so hard?
As far as the dyno day is concerned, I think the next step is for you to start a thread and start gathering firm commitments from folks so we can be sure we will meet our minimum and also so we can begin to suss out what day will be good for everyone. Please post a link here. I will once again try to get some Volvo guys to come.
Regards, Eric
(01-21-2011, 07:16 PM)300SD_KY note the side exhuast ... hint ... hint ... possible to have this coming out the passenger or driver side?
(01-21-2011, 07:16 PM)300SD_KY note the side exhuast ... hint ... hint ... possible to have this coming out the passenger or driver side?
I don't think he meant having it inside the passenger compartement, just a side pipe in either side if possible.
Like through the fender right? That's what I'm working on....
A fender exhaust is a nice thought, but it requires cutting through structural body metal.
Eh, a round hole I don't think would be anything to worry about, especially a 3" to 4" one. Keep it spaced between the firewall and wheel well, the space in between them doesn't really do much that's the "frame" rails job. My opinion from reconstructing that area FWIW.
I had it cut for a couple months with no adverse effects... And I rally mine!
Hey Rudolf any news or updates on your project? pics anything???
(02-28-2011, 11:38 AM)winmutt Hes pretty busy with personal stuff these days. As soon as the days start getting longer we all get more productive.
(02-28-2011, 11:38 AM)winmutt Hes pretty busy with personal stuff these days. As soon as the days start getting longer we all get more productive.
No updates...I am considering parting out the car as I really dont have time for it anymore - any interest?
(03-16-2011, 07:11 AM)Rudolf_Diesel No updates...I am considering parting out the car as I really dont have time for it anymore - any interest?
(03-16-2011, 07:11 AM)Rudolf_Diesel No updates...I am considering parting out the car as I really dont have time for it anymore - any interest?
(03-16-2011, 12:38 PM)mike-81-240d(03-16-2011, 07:11 AM)Rudolf_Diesel No updates...I am considering parting out the car as I really dont have time for it anymore - any interest?
What?!!!!!
Did something break?...
(03-16-2011, 12:38 PM)mike-81-240d(03-16-2011, 07:11 AM)Rudolf_Diesel No updates...I am considering parting out the car as I really dont have time for it anymore - any interest?
What?!!!!!
Did something break?...
(03-16-2011, 01:44 PM)Rudolf_DieselWell if you do decide to get rid of it, take it down to the local Mercedes dealer for something simple and cheap like an oil change. It should shock the guys in the service department. Hell they may even buy it off you. What better car could a professional Mercedes mechanic drive?(03-16-2011, 12:38 PM)mike-81-240d(03-16-2011, 07:11 AM)Rudolf_Diesel No updates...I am considering parting out the car as I really dont have time for it anymore - any interest?
What?!!!!!
Did something break?...
Nothing broken, head gasket is probably an issue. It is more of the pursuit than the actual catch if you know what I mean? It was a blast building, and I am still on the fence, but I may want a new project.
(03-16-2011, 01:44 PM)Rudolf_DieselWell if you do decide to get rid of it, take it down to the local Mercedes dealer for something simple and cheap like an oil change. It should shock the guys in the service department. Hell they may even buy it off you. What better car could a professional Mercedes mechanic drive?(03-16-2011, 12:38 PM)mike-81-240d(03-16-2011, 07:11 AM)Rudolf_Diesel No updates...I am considering parting out the car as I really dont have time for it anymore - any interest?
What?!!!!!
Did something break?...
Nothing broken, head gasket is probably an issue. It is more of the pursuit than the actual catch if you know what I mean? It was a blast building, and I am still on the fence, but I may want a new project.
(03-16-2011, 01:44 PM)Rudolf_Diesel Nothing broken, head gasket is probably an issue. It is more of the pursuit than the actual catch if you know what I mean?
(03-16-2011, 01:44 PM)Rudolf_Diesel Nothing broken, head gasket is probably an issue. It is more of the pursuit than the actual catch if you know what I mean?