New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D
New Project - Skunkwerks EM9D
(10-22-2010, 06:12 PM)garage What time should i be getting there on sunday?
(10-22-2010, 06:12 PM)garage What time should i be getting there on sunday?
(10-22-2010, 07:24 PM)yankneck696 Somebody had better have a good cam with alot of SD cards.....
(10-22-2010, 07:24 PM)yankneck696 Somebody had better have a good cam with alot of SD cards.....
Looks good looking forward to seeing some real OM617 numbers!
I got a Droid X. 8 gig camera 720p video but I don't think imma be up there tomorrow.
Just found this out from the dyno day organizer:
"For those in attendance, one last small note: Payments will be accepted in Cash or Credit. Credit payments will be subject to a 4% surcharge. No checks. So, I suggest bringing cash. See you all there!"
Regards, Eric
Defiantly get some good dyno graphs! May the power be with you!
Quick update:
I went to the Dyno day yesterday, but with some mixed results.
I think I am having an issue with the head gasket, no oil contamination, but the coolant hoses are getting pressurized and it looks like I have some dark substance in the coolant tank It does not seem to have perceptable loss of power, seems the same as before. I also seem to be leaking from the heater core, I have a drip of coolant under the car near the transmission.
On the way to pick up my son the trans started to slip a bit in fourth gear...more on that later.
Got to the dyno shop and J-sauce was the first up. Dyno operator made acouple of pulls and he was only getting around 175 hp - runs were taken in 3rd gear. The operator made runs in 4th gear and his readings went up to 350+.
When it came time to my runs he could not figure out how to get an rpm output, I didn't know so I suggested to clamp on the tach cable, but that didn't work. Where is the correct point to measure RPM output?
So he made a run in 3rd and was low on the output, so he said he needed to be in 4th. I told him put in D and go. He says is down shifted and wasn;t going to work. I told him to wait until 60-65 and floor it.
He made his run, it sounded mean and not much smoke. He said it got up to 120 MPH. My HP reading was only 171.xx - That does not seem right to me at all. It may have been the trans slipping or something else. It could be correct, but I have some doubts. I don't know if the operator completely pressed the accellerator or if some other factor played in the low reading.
I will post the printout tomorrow, the graph looks good though it climbs steady and plateaus and keeps straight until you let off the accellerator.
Disappointing day to say the least
What where the TQ numbers?
(10-24-2010, 12:10 PM)willbhere4 What where the TQ numbers?
(10-24-2010, 12:10 PM)willbhere4 What where the TQ numbers?
(10-23-2010, 12:07 AM)400Eric Credit payments will be subject to a 4% surcharge.
Quote:Where is the correct point to measure RPM output?They need to use an optical tachometer with reflective tape on the crankshaft (or on the P/S pully with a 1:0.9 underdrive ratio if they don't allow anything to be placed under/infront of the car).
Quote:I told him put in D and go. He says is down shifted and wasn;t going to work. I told him to wait until 60-65 and floor it.You need to disconnect the bowden cable and kickdown switch. It will shift to 4th around 20mph and won't shift down unless speed drops.
(10-23-2010, 12:07 AM)400Eric Credit payments will be subject to a 4% surcharge.
Quote:Where is the correct point to measure RPM output?They need to use an optical tachometer with reflective tape on the crankshaft (or on the P/S pully with a 1:0.9 underdrive ratio if they don't allow anything to be placed under/infront of the car).
Quote:I told him put in D and go. He says is down shifted and wasn;t going to work. I told him to wait until 60-65 and floor it.You need to disconnect the bowden cable and kickdown switch. It will shift to 4th around 20mph and won't shift down unless speed drops.
(10-24-2010, 02:52 PM)ForcedInduction(10-23-2010, 12:07 AM)400Eric Credit payments will be subject to a 4% surcharge.
Thats illegal. California does not allow surcharges to be added to credit card transactions and Visa/mastercard does allow them in their business contract. Any of you that paid by credit card need to send them a written demand by certified mail to get your 4% returned!
http://fso.cpasitesolutions.com/premium/...tml#MORE:B
http://law.onecle.com/california/civil/1748.1.html
Quote:Where is the correct point to measure RPM output?They need to use an optical tachometer with reflective tape on the crankshaft (or on the P/S pully with a 1:0.9 underdrive ratio if they don't allow anything to be placed under/infront of the car).
Quote:I told him put in D and go. He says is down shifted and wasn;t going to work. I told him to wait until 60-65 and floor it.You need to disconnect the bowden cable and kickdown switch. It will shift to 4th around 20mph and won't shift down unless speed drops.
171hp is still a lot better than anyone else.
If you can post a hp:mph graph we can figure out RPM and torque. Either way, it sounds like you need to find a more experienced dyno shop.
(10-24-2010, 02:52 PM)ForcedInduction(10-23-2010, 12:07 AM)400Eric Credit payments will be subject to a 4% surcharge.
Thats illegal. California does not allow surcharges to be added to credit card transactions and Visa/mastercard does allow them in their business contract. Any of you that paid by credit card need to send them a written demand by certified mail to get your 4% returned!
http://fso.cpasitesolutions.com/premium/...tml#MORE:B
http://law.onecle.com/california/civil/1748.1.html
Quote:Where is the correct point to measure RPM output?They need to use an optical tachometer with reflective tape on the crankshaft (or on the P/S pully with a 1:0.9 underdrive ratio if they don't allow anything to be placed under/infront of the car).
Quote:I told him put in D and go. He says is down shifted and wasn;t going to work. I told him to wait until 60-65 and floor it.You need to disconnect the bowden cable and kickdown switch. It will shift to 4th around 20mph and won't shift down unless speed drops.
171hp is still a lot better than anyone else.
If you can post a hp:mph graph we can figure out RPM and torque. Either way, it sounds like you need to find a more experienced dyno shop.
Thats a bummer that you didnt get your money back, kinda seems like bullshit, i dont think those pulls were worht the money, especially with no accurate readings.
I still wanna find a dyno for diesels so i can run my car too, it is a bummer about yesterday.
But at least you got to hear how your car sounds from the outside!
It's a shame you didn't have much success at the dyno... I can totally relate. My car is a real challenge because of the lack of space for the optical connector and a lack of a handy tach signal. It also downshifts like a big dog and is generally unruly.
In my mind, an unsatisfactory run that's lacking any of the standard parameters should be refunded but the operators don't think that way and will always fight to keep your money using any excuse they can. Not customer service related in the least...
After that bad dyno experience, I used my ocilloscope find a good tach signal for next time. Then, I ran a loop of wire outside the ECU box for easy access.
Hey Rudolph, I did not know they ended up making you pay. I do apologize for the bad experience you had. I had only been to that shop once before, and had a good experience, or I would not have recommended them for this event. I should have listened to CaptainAmerica, who suggested another shop. The only problem was that it is here in riverside, and farther than the majority of our group was willing to travel. I do appreciate your attendance though, and will contact the shop Monday in an effort to get you at least a partial refund.
Needless to say, I will not be holding another event here. Their inexperience actually scared away 1 C63, and at least another Benz and Fiat owner. I wish I would have known your car was downshifting, I might have been able to help with the bowden cable.
All said and done, the drag strip will definitely provide you with some useful information, at less than half the price and more than twice the fun! So at least we have THAT to look forward to.
(10-24-2010, 09:22 PM)J-Sauce Hey Rudolph, I did not know they ended up making you pay. I do apologize for the bad experience you had. I had only been to that shop once before, and had a good experience, or I would not have recommended them for this event. I should have listened to CaptainAmerica, who suggested another shop. The only problem was that it is here in riverside, and farther than the majority of our group was willing to travel. I do appreciate your attendance though, and will contact the shop Monday in an effort to get you at least a partial refund.
Needless to say, I will not be holding another event here. Their inexperience actually scared away 1 C63, and at least another Benz and Fiat owner. I wish I would have known your car was downshifting, I might have been able to help with the bowden cable.
All said and done, the drag strip will definitely provide you with some useful information, at less than half the price and more than twice the fun! So at least we have THAT to look forward to.
(10-24-2010, 09:22 PM)J-Sauce Hey Rudolph, I did not know they ended up making you pay. I do apologize for the bad experience you had. I had only been to that shop once before, and had a good experience, or I would not have recommended them for this event. I should have listened to CaptainAmerica, who suggested another shop. The only problem was that it is here in riverside, and farther than the majority of our group was willing to travel. I do appreciate your attendance though, and will contact the shop Monday in an effort to get you at least a partial refund.
Needless to say, I will not be holding another event here. Their inexperience actually scared away 1 C63, and at least another Benz and Fiat owner. I wish I would have known your car was downshifting, I might have been able to help with the bowden cable.
All said and done, the drag strip will definitely provide you with some useful information, at less than half the price and more than twice the fun! So at least we have THAT to look forward to.
(10-24-2010, 09:22 PM)J-Sauce Oh and as for thew credit card transaction charge, I don't understand why it would be such a big deal. It's just $2.00. It costs that much to send a certified letter.Whats $2 to you, but multiply that across hundreds of customers and it ads up to quite a bit of illicit money. Doing nothing allows them to continue stealing.
Quote:It's a common practice I have come across countless times when purchasing goods or services for my cars. There is almost always a "cash discount".Thats how they need to do it.
(10-24-2010, 09:22 PM)J-Sauce Oh and as for thew credit card transaction charge, I don't understand why it would be such a big deal. It's just $2.00. It costs that much to send a certified letter.Whats $2 to you, but multiply that across hundreds of customers and it ads up to quite a bit of illicit money. Doing nothing allows them to continue stealing.
Quote:It's a common practice I have come across countless times when purchasing goods or services for my cars. There is almost always a "cash discount".Thats how they need to do it.
I use WOT Performance. www.wotperformance.com
I am buddies with the owner (Pete). I was speaking with J-Sauce before the dyno day trying to get him to change dyno's but it was too late. Pete has a Mustang dyno first off, which is better (more accurate/ real world numbers) than a Dyno Jet. I'm pretty sure he does diesels all the time and has the optical sensor needed.. He's not a dick, and is always willing to make the customer happy. He is good at what he does and will do what it takes to get a good run if there is some trouble. I had mentioned about doing a dyno day to him and his prices were the same. 10 cars $50 bucks a piece, 3 or 4 runs. You wont leave with wacky numbers like J-Sauce and Rudolf but with the numbers your car actually makes We should get another day planned out @ WOT. It may be closer or further for some of you but it will be worth it.
How many cars turned out anyway?
Oh, and if your worried about not having Dyno Jet numbers for previous comparison, he can convert the real world numbers over to the over inflated Dyno Jet numbers for ya.
Captain, there were 11 cars that got dynoed.
You are right, we should get another day planned out @ WOT! Why don't you put it together? I'll spread the word to help you like I did for J-sauce.
Rudolph, being a dyno virgin myself, J-sauce had to teach me about the bowden cable and kick down switch. I figured that since you've dynoed your truck before, you knew about such things. I wish you had told us if you needed help or had questions about this stuff as I was just learning it too for myself and would have been happy to pass along the info and help you do the disconnections.
I know the Sauce-man well enough to know that he will give 120% in his effort to get you some justice with that shop. He is just as disappointed as you are with them and he is truly "done" with that establishment.
As for me, I didn't appreciate the fact that they took what seemed like forever to finish their "lunch hour" (which seemed more like two hours) while so many customers were waiting. Not cool. To compensate, just to help the other folks who couldn't stay, I waited till everyone else had done their cars before I did mine. I didn't get loaded up and out of there until 8:30 PM. All the while the guy was whining about being there so late. The nerve!
I too don't blame the Sauce-man as he had been treated well there before and I know he wouldn't have brought us there if he had any doubts about them. It's just one of those live and learn things!
Regards, Eric
Wow! 11 cars is awesome. That is the only thing Pete @ WOT is worried about... is the turnout. And that doesn't seem to be an issue so great!
Yeah the Sauce wouldnt have set it up if he knew it wasn't going to turn out well.
What do you guys think a good date is? I'll make sure with Pete that he can run the diesels no problem and see what he says and get back with you. I work right around the corner from his shop so talking to him today shouldn't be a problem
Ok so I just got done talking with Pete @ WOT. We are go for a dyno day if you guys want to do another. He's got the optical sensor to get the RPM signal. He said that setting up the optical takes a bit of time so sometimes its easeir to set the engine RPM in the dyno computer based on roll speed which he said works out well. It would be $50 a car for 3 runs. He said with his schedualling a sunday would work out better (didn't think that would be an issue ). Also said that the gas Benz's with traction control can be tricky because the computer trips out when the front wheels are not turning, I dunno if this is a known problem or not... anyway, if we wanna come up with a date we are good to go. I would definitely be there with my POS so that would count as one.
(10-25-2010, 03:08 PM)J-Sauce Ok Robert I just stopped by the shop and talked with the owner and the tech. The offered to refund your money. Please contact me.
(10-25-2010, 03:08 PM)J-Sauce Ok Robert I just stopped by the shop and talked with the owner and the tech. The offered to refund your money. Please contact me.
I talked to J-Sauce today and he told me I had to go down to the dyno shop in person to get my cash. I showed up this afternoon on my way home from work. I get to the shop and they somewhat acknowledged my presence. A few minutes later the operator / whatever, came out with a $50.00 bill hanging in the air, doesn’t say fuck you or anything. I think whatever and take the money and leave.
I wanted to talk to the guy, let him know I didn’t really say anything bad, I was just disappointed and vented; hell I would have let him keep half for the effort, but treat my like that - his loss. I guess they also didn’t like the fact that I did a burn out and left a 60’ tire mark when I left their facility on Saturday.
Bottom line, got the money back!
Was this the burnout i saw around the corner?
Cause that was niiiiice! Put a big ol onto my face!
I am DEFINETLY down for a dyno day at WOT, knowing that they can read the diesel even without a tach pickup i will for sure run my car..all 60somthing HP! haha
It may have been, it was around 2:30ish
Here is the dyno sheet.
My vote is for the last Sat. of November, a week before our next track day. [Edit: Next track day AFTER the one we have coming up this coming Sat!]
Sundays are not good for those who have church obligations which might adversely effect our turn-out. I'm one of those whose Mommy won't let me come out to play if it's on a Sunday.
Rudolph, how did you edit the Sauce-man's post? Are you a moderator? I'd better watch what I say!
Regards, Eric
(10-25-2010, 11:08 PM)400Eric My vote is for the last Sat. of November, a week before our next track day. [Edit: Next track day AFTER the one we have coming up this coming Sat!]
Sundays are not good for those who have church obligations which might adversely effect our turn-out. I'm one of those whose Mommy won't let me come out to play if it's on a Sunday.
Rudolph, how did you edit the Sauce-man's post? Are you a moderator? I'd better watch what I say!
Regards, Eric
(10-25-2010, 11:08 PM)400Eric My vote is for the last Sat. of November, a week before our next track day. [Edit: Next track day AFTER the one we have coming up this coming Sat!]
Sundays are not good for those who have church obligations which might adversely effect our turn-out. I'm one of those whose Mommy won't let me come out to play if it's on a Sunday.
Rudolph, how did you edit the Sauce-man's post? Are you a moderator? I'd better watch what I say!
Regards, Eric
(10-26-2010, 12:18 PM)ConnClark(10-26-2010, 07:10 AM)Rudolf_Diesel I would not delete a post uinless it is spam, if anything, I would block out anything offensive or questionable.
Lets test your skills on this....
Sell your Benz and buy an Audi
(10-26-2010, 12:18 PM)ConnClark(10-26-2010, 07:10 AM)Rudolf_Diesel I would not delete a post uinless it is spam, if anything, I would block out anything offensive or questionable.
Lets test your skills on this....
Sell your Benz and buy an Audi
(10-26-2010, 12:18 PM)ConnClark(10-26-2010, 07:10 AM)Rudolf_Diesel I would not delete a post uinless it is spam, if anything, I would block out anything offensive or questionable.
Lets test your skills on this....
Sell your Benz and buy an Audi
(10-26-2010, 12:18 PM)ConnClark(10-26-2010, 07:10 AM)Rudolf_Diesel I would not delete a post uinless it is spam, if anything, I would block out anything offensive or questionable.
Lets test your skills on this....
Sell your Benz and buy an Audi
(10-26-2010, 02:05 PM)Rudolf_Diesel(10-26-2010, 12:18 PM)ConnClark(10-26-2010, 07:10 AM)Rudolf_Diesel I would not delete a post uinless it is spam, if anything, I would block out anything offensive or questionable.
Lets test your skills on this....
Sell your Benz and buy an Audi
Not offensive to me...think Audi racing (Diesel)
(10-25-2010, 09:24 PM)Rudolf_Diesel ...
Here is the dyno sheet.
(10-24-2010, 02:52 PM)ForcedInduction 171hp is still a lot better than anyone else.
...
(10-26-2010, 02:05 PM)Rudolf_Diesel(10-26-2010, 12:18 PM)ConnClark(10-26-2010, 07:10 AM)Rudolf_Diesel I would not delete a post uinless it is spam, if anything, I would block out anything offensive or questionable.
Lets test your skills on this....
Sell your Benz and buy an Audi
Not offensive to me...think Audi racing (Diesel)
(10-25-2010, 09:24 PM)Rudolf_Diesel ...
Here is the dyno sheet.
(10-24-2010, 02:52 PM)ForcedInduction 171hp is still a lot better than anyone else.
...
(10-26-2010, 02:38 PM)DeliveryValve I am guessing that translates to about 200 horsepower at the flywheel. Agreed it is a lot better than everyone.
.
(10-26-2010, 02:38 PM)DeliveryValve I am guessing that translates to about 200 horsepower at the flywheel. Agreed it is a lot better than everyone.
.
Glad you got your money back from the dyno run! I still need to figure out an rpm source as well. I disconnect my kickdown switch and have the guy run it in 3rd. He goes up through the gears, then lets it back down to 1500ish rpm in 3rd and then goes for it. It took him a few tries to get it right, but it seems to work ok. He reads 3k on the tach in 3rd and holds it there to 'calibrate' it to the rpm vs wheel speed. The torque converter ratio throws it off, but it's better than nothing at this point.
On a side note, I've been playing with a spare MW pump I have (1981 300D na). I've been checking how the ALDA system works, and it seems that if the alda rod is down too far and you floor it, it wont give full fueling. (I've been checking with the top cover off, so the spring is not pulling it up.) There is a catch or notch that the alda rod has to pull up far enough to engauge and give that last few mm of rack travel. My concern with this is, if the alda is adjusted down just a hair too far, when its floored the alda can't pull the rod up in time (no/low boost) to allow for full fueling. Rudolph, I don't know if your M pump will have this issue due to your external custom alda goodness, but for the rest of us, this could be causing low dyno readings. I was disappointed in my 5hp dyno increase from ported head, cam, bigger turbo, etc but I've been thinking that the alda wasn't allowing full fueling. It certainly felt better on the street than 5hp, but I had boost before flooring it. I'm working on a test set up for mechanical adjustment of the alda. I'll let you all know what I find. Also, if someone has more, or more complete, information on this, please feel free to share. Oh, Rudolph, feel free to move this rambling side note to another area if I'm hijacking your thread!
(10-26-2010, 02:05 PM)Rudolf_Diesel(10-26-2010, 12:18 PM)ConnClark(10-26-2010, 07:10 AM)Rudolf_Diesel I would not delete a post uinless it is spam, if anything, I would block out anything offensive or questionable.
Lets test your skills on this....
Sell your Benz and buy an Audi
Not offensive to me...think Audi racing (Diesel)
(10-26-2010, 02:05 PM)Rudolf_Diesel(10-26-2010, 12:18 PM)ConnClark(10-26-2010, 07:10 AM)Rudolf_Diesel I would not delete a post uinless it is spam, if anything, I would block out anything offensive or questionable.
Lets test your skills on this....
Sell your Benz and buy an Audi
Not offensive to me...think Audi racing (Diesel)
(10-26-2010, 02:05 PM)Rudolf_Diesel I would not delete a post uinless it is spam, if anything, I would block out anything offensive or questionable.
(10-26-2010, 12:18 PM)ConnClark Sell your Benz and buy an Audi
(10-26-2010, 07:10 AM)Rudolf_Diesel Not offensive to me...think Audi racing (Diesel)
(10-26-2010, 02:05 PM)Rudolf_Diesel I would not delete a post uinless it is spam, if anything, I would block out anything offensive or questionable.
(10-26-2010, 12:18 PM)ConnClark Sell your Benz and buy an Audi
(10-26-2010, 07:10 AM)Rudolf_Diesel Not offensive to me...think Audi racing (Diesel)
No problem...thank you.
The red graph is the first run in 3rd gear.
The blue graph is the second run in 4th gear when I told to wait until 60 mph to mash it and go. WOW! 118 mph at top speed I wonder what rpms the motor was turning?
Even though the numbers are not what I expected and may not be accurate, the slope of the graph looks pretty good. Power goes up quickly and doesn't seem to drop dramatically until the accellerator is released.
Oh man, I love that flat graph!! I wish mine looked like that! Haha! Going to have to look into rpm signals now for dyno runs...
<<"Betsie" a.k.a. "Gremlin" (girlfriend's car) '81 Chevette 47k original miles>>
Boy, I remember my 81 Chevette. Big & fat tires in the rear (26"X8") & air shocks. Great for the trails in NH.
(10-28-2010, 11:42 PM)J-Sauce If you really wanna get technical, you can figure out your RPMs using your gear ratios and tire size. It may not be completely 100% accurate because of the nature of rubber tires, but it will give you an idea!
(10-28-2010, 11:42 PM)J-Sauce If you really wanna get technical, you can figure out your RPMs using your gear ratios and tire size. It may not be completely 100% accurate because of the nature of rubber tires, but it will give you an idea!
(10-29-2010, 06:12 AM)Rudolf_Diesel If someone wants to do that kudos, my brain hurts right now and I don't relly feel up to it If someone wants to figure it out , here is the data:
Tires: 205/70R14
R&P: 3.07
Trans: 722.315
(10-29-2010, 06:34 AM)stan(10-29-2010, 06:12 AM)Rudolf_Diesel If someone wants to do that kudos, my brain hurts right now and I don't relly feel up to it If someone wants to figure it out , here is the data:
Tires: 205/70R14
R&P: 3.07
Trans: 722.315
i'm glad i'm not the only one on the forums at such an hour :-P
(10-29-2010, 06:34 AM)stan(10-29-2010, 06:12 AM)Rudolf_Diesel If someone wants to do that kudos, my brain hurts right now and I don't relly feel up to it If someone wants to figure it out , here is the data:
Tires: 205/70R14
R&P: 3.07
Trans: 722.315
i'm glad i'm not the only one on the forums at such an hour :-P
I crunched a few numbers using some online calculators I found and came up with the following for torque curves:
(10-28-2010, 11:42 PM)J-Sauce If you really wanna get technical, you can figure out your RPMs using your gear ratios and tire size. It may not be completely 100% accurate because of the nature of rubber tires, but it will give you an idea!
(10-28-2010, 11:42 PM)J-Sauce If you really wanna get technical, you can figure out your RPMs using your gear ratios and tire size. It may not be completely 100% accurate because of the nature of rubber tires, but it will give you an idea!