Wonder if you can bolt your shocks to the lower arm from teh top rather than the bottom? That would gain you at least an inch or so. Also, can you remove the shims completely or are they required for a proper fit between the spring and the mount?

How does your Benz ride compared to the average truck/SUV?

(07-29-2009 11:00 AM)MB TECH Wrote:  Try to send a pic of the side view of the car when you get a chance, im curious to see the ride height.

Coil Spacing:

Ride Height:

ya that did turn out pretty hight, going to the smallest shim will probably drop you about 1/2 in. If you had an alignment rack at your disposal you should keep adding weight in the rear until the camber comes into spec and then mark that ride height as the height you should shoot for. See I ended up using sedan springs but then my ride height was too low even with the three notch shims, so I used these rubber spacers that you install in between the coils to stiffen it up which brought be to my target ride height but I too have bit of a stiff ride. I guess if it came down to it you could also cut a coil off of your new springs but that would be up to you.

(07-30-2009 11:27 PM)MB TECH Wrote:  ya that did turn out pretty hight, going to the smallest shim will probably drop you about 1/2 in. If you had an alignment rack at your disposal you should keep adding weight in the rear until the camber comes into spec and then mark that ride height as the height you should shoot for. See I ended up using sedan springs but then my ride height was too low even with the three notch shims, so I used these rubber spacers that you install in between the coils to stiffen it up which brought be to my target ride height but I too have bit of a stiff ride. I guess if it came down to it you could also cut a coil off of your new springs but that would be up to you.

I'd rather not. I have only driven the springs about 5 miles so far, so I think they will probably settle a little bit over time. The car was parked on an uneven surface, and I realized after I took the picture that I actually photographed a wheel that was in a hollow. The ride height on level surface is actually a bit less than pictured. I have ordered the smallest shims available and Bilstien HDs. I'll report back when I install them.

Ya I agree about not cutting up new springs, I wouldnt want to either. Please keep up with the posts on the progress.

(07-30-2009 12:28 PM)Floridacyclist Wrote:  Wonder if you can bolt your shocks to the lower arm from teh top rather than the bottom? That would gain you at least an inch or so. Also, can you remove the shims completely or are they required for a proper fit between the spring and the mount?

How does your Benz ride compared to the average truck/SUV?

The only way I could modify the shock fitment would be to raise the upper shock mounts by cutting them out and welding in extra metal and/or making a spacer to go under the trailing arm with longer bolts. I don't like these options for a variety of reasons so I am going to just install the sedan shocks anyway, and do my best to not bottom-out the car (it will be hard with these springs!).

Removing the shims completely would probably be non-ideal because the springs will make a lot of noise and will wear the spring perches. I could make super thin shims by carving away the material in stock ones, but I'd rather just use bolt-up parts. That's what this swap is all about for me.

The ride is still Benz-like. The shocks I used are in really bad shape so they didn't dampen the springs adequately. This made cornering on washboards akin to that of a pickup (total loss of lateral grip), but if the Bilstien HDs are up to the task of dampening the springs, the ride will be stiffer than stock, but still damn good. The installation of an upgrade sway bar may have also contributed to the looseness in the rear end The overall handling of the car will be dependent on lowering the rear height by about 1/2" to 1", right now there is a little too much forward rake and the camber of the rear wheels is too much to be allowed.

The HD's are two valved, you might find a 3 valve Sport from a W126 to be a better ride. Kind of pricey way to find out. I am interested to hear what you feel about this in another month or so. Wifes SLS spheres are shot and shocks are leaking and suddenly I am thinking a few hundred bucks to fix it once and for all might not be so bad. I would also like to know how it handled with 3-400lb in the boot.

(08-05-2009 11:07 AM)winmutt Wrote:  would also like to know how it handled with 3-400lb in the boot.

me too... If this doesnt turn out to be a good option for a heavy load, I *may* look into the air bag route...

(08-06-2009 12:52 AM)SurfRodder Wrote:  

(08-05-2009 11:07 AM)winmutt Wrote:  would also like to know how it handled with 3-400lb in the boot.

me too... If this doesnt turn out to be a good option for a heavy load, I *may* look into the air bag route...

Shocks and spring pads have arrived. They go in tomorrow.

(08-06-2009 01:44 PM)GREASY_BEAST Wrote:  Shocks and spring pads have arrived. They go in tomorrow.

Holding breath....

(08-08-2009 06:53 PM)Floridacyclist Wrote:  

(08-06-2009 01:44 PM)GREASY_BEAST Wrote:  Shocks and spring pads have arrived. They go in tomorrow.

Holding breath....

Sorry for the delay. With lower spring pads and new HDs, the ride is PERFECT! Pictures of ride height follow. I haven't loaded it down yet, but I'll put 400lbs in it tomorrow and let you all know what happens.

That doesnt look bad at all. Let us know how it is with 400lb on the highway etc.

awesome, looking forward to your results with the weight...

(08-11-2009 11:21 AM)SurfRodder Wrote:  awesome, looking forward to your results with the weight...

Car is off the road until I fix the nailing injectors. I'll load 4-500lbs and take it for a drive when the parts come.

(08-12-2009 11:42 AM)GREASY_BEAST Wrote:  

(08-11-2009 11:21 AM)SurfRodder Wrote:  awesome, looking forward to your results with the weight...

Car is off the road until I fix the nailing injectors. I'll load 4-500lbs and take it for a drive when the parts come.

So the ride is stiffer than stock, but it holds weight pretty well and is wonderful on the highway all the way up to 100+. You will feel bumps more if you do this, but it rides pretty well (better than most cars) and at $230 for the springs and $150 for the shocks it costs a LOT less than fixing the SLS.

EDIT: Also, with the thinnest shims, you should be aware that the car will still have a slightly high stance in the back. This is how I ran my SLS anyway, and it isn't enough to make the rear wheel camber greater than it should be. If you have lowering springs in the front you probably would want to cut half a coil or more.

you know, I almost called these guys today, but then finishing up my business ethics final got in the way... theres always next week... anyway, good job figuring it out brotha!

Can we get a parts list please? Payday's coming.

I still plan to upgrade the whole car, but that's going to wait till next year after our trip to Southern Europe. After that, I will probably be looking for a decent older G-wagen diesel.

(08-19-2009 07:41 AM)Floridacyclist Wrote:  Can we get a parts list please? Payday's coming.

I still plan to upgrade the whole car, but that's going to wait till next year after our trip to Southern Europe. After than, I will probably be looking for a decent older G-wagen diesel.

The parts list is simply thus:

(2) Lesjofors p/n 42 568 69
(2) 300D 9.5mm rear spring shims
(2) 300D Bilstein HD shock absorbers
(1) Klann spring compressor (or a clone thereof)
(1) Factory Shop Manual CD

I kind of pieced that together yesterday (all except the manual) from reading your past posts. I sent an email to the parts supply house in England that you mentioned and am still waiting for a reply.

(08-20-2009 10:48 AM)Floridacyclist Wrote:  I kind of pieced that together yesterday (all except the manual) from reading your past posts. I sent an email to the parts supply house in England that you mentioned and am still waiting for a reply.

When you install them be very careful to watch the hooks that hold the trailing arm from over-extending. These springs are powerful, and I noticed some deformation in these hooks. It will be very important to re-enforce these with gussets of some kind if you plan to ever put the car on a lift. If the hooks let go, the trailing arm could possibly slam down, sending the spring flying and killing or maiming whoever might be in range, either of the flying spring or the swinging trailing arm.

could you add a limiting strap?

(08-20-2009 11:46 AM)willbhere4u Wrote:  could you add a limiting strap?

Maybe... not sure where to put it or what to attach it to... Might as well just beef up the existing retaining hooks.

my new rear springs are on the way! emailed back & forth with a pleasant salesperson named Keir. they should be here next week.

(08-26-2009 11:24 AM)SurfRodder Wrote:  my new rear springs are on the way! emailed back & forth with a pleasant salesperson named Keir. they should be here next week.

Yep! Keir is a great guy, he's the one I dealt with.

That would be awesome if I could get him to answer me! LOL

(08-28-2009 07:41 AM)Floridacyclist Wrote:  That would be awesome if I could get him to answer me! LOL

FWIW, I bought mine completely by email exchanges. I do know though, that he works until 6PM local time, London. That's 5 hours ahead of your time, assuming that you're in FL. If you still haven't gotten a hold of him I'll post his email address later, unless Greasy beats me to it.

(08-28-2009 01:27 PM)SurfRodder Wrote:  FWIW, I bought mine completely by email exchanges. I do know though, that he works until 6PM local time, London. That's 5 hours ahead of your time, assuming that you're in FL. If you still haven't gotten a hold of him I'll post his email address later, unless Greasy beats me to it.

No luck. I have sent two emails to export@gsfcarparts.com (including one titled attn Keir) and one email using the contact form on the website. I even tried calling, but was told that was not authorized on my phone. I guess I need to get an international calling card.

(09-11-2009 08:34 AM)Floridacyclist Wrote:  No luck. I have sent two emails to export@gsfcarparts.com (including one titled attn Keir) and one email using the contact form on the website. I even tried calling, but was told that was not authorized on my phone. I guess I need to get an international calling card.

im at work right now, Ill check his email when I get home and post it up.

Keir's email addy is:

keir dot nicholson at gsfcarparts dot com

I finally swapped my springs out this afternoon, here are some pics:

[attachment=1235]
this is a comparison of the old vogtland (purple) with the new Lesjofors... not how much thicker the coils are on the new ones and the height difference is just about perfect. In the future Imay decide to chop half a coil off, but we'll see how it goes. I wish I had my stocker springs with me so I could compare all three next to each other, but I left them in LA at my parents house last time.

[attachment=1236]
this is the new left profile pic

[attachment=1237]
it looks much better than it did before.

Overall Im very pleased with the outcome of this. The ride is a bit stiffer than before, but thats more my style anyway. It's certainly not *drastic*. Not bottoming out the spare tire well every time I back down a driveway is going to me a major plus to this.

I almost forgot, I left the rubber vibration pads off... I forgot to order the short ones and I knew the 3 nubs were going to be too big... so far I haven't noticed any extra noise from the ass end, but I generally drive with the windows down all the time anyway so I prolly wouldnt notice anyway.

All told this swap took me less than three hours and I was taking my time.

No word yet. I'm beginning to think I have bad breath or something LOL

You know, this is getting really old. Does anyone have any idea where else I can buy these parts?

(09-23-2009 08:11 AM)Floridacyclist Wrote:  You know, this is getting really old. Does anyone have any idea where else I can buy these parts?

did you get my PM? he has tried to reach you a couple of times, but it keeps getting bounced.

Got it. Thank you very much.

Sorry it took so long to reply, was busy playing Medieval (beating my friends with sticks and drinking large quantities of mead) all weekend.

We'll see if this works....

Subject: This is Gene Floyd looking for Mercedes springs.
From: gene@rideforfatherhood.org (Add as Preferred Sender) ?
Date: Mon, Sep 28, 2009 6:30 am
To: keir.nicholson@gsfcarparts.com
Good morning Keir,

This is Gene Floyd. You obviously know the name since I heard that you have been trying to get back with me as well; I appreciate your persistence.

Perhaps this email address will work better for you. At this point, I mainly need an all-inclusive price quote (including shipping to Tallahassee, FL, 32310) for the following:

(2) Lesjofors p/n 42 568 69
(2) 300D 9.5mm rear spring shims (or the thinnest shims you have if this is not it)
(1) Klann spring compressor (or a cheap clone thereof - hopefully I will only need it once)
(1) Factory Shop Manual CD

I should be good to order on or about next payday (1 week off)

Gene, Stefan, and Joshua Floyd
70 days on the road for dads and kids
Daily blog and 3500+ photos at
http://www.rideforfatherhood.org
850.284.3677

(09-29-2009 02:44 PM)Floridacyclist Wrote:  (1) Klann spring compressor (or a cheap clone thereof - hopefully I will only need it once)

you likely wont need this. I just dropped out the shocks, put a jack under the diff, unbolted the diff mount to chassis bolts (4 @ 13mm heads) and lowered the jack until the springs came out. Of course that was with the shorter Vogtlands installed. IIRC I took the stockers out by the above method and unbolting the subframe mounts. As a last resort, the stock spring should be only slightly compressed at this point and a generic compressor like this one will work.

http://www.toolking.com/products/1080554...ale=W80554

I 'rented' one just like this at autozone or kragen and returned it when I was done with my swap to the vogtlands. The fronts were kinda hairy, although the compressor didnt act like anything was going to happen I was *really* careful when I handled the compressed front springs with that unit. the only other issue (again more so w/ the fronts vice the rears) was trying to assemble the compressor inside the springs as they would fit in assembled. anyway, with a little ingenuity you can get 'er done. if you want you can PM me for my phone number and if you have any issues when you get around to doing this you can give me a call and ill try to help you out.

Well, I at least got one reply from Keir. He said that he was trying to attach the quote to the email, but I didn't see it. I asked him to try it again with no results. Will try again in a day or so.

Thanks for hte offer of tech/moral support. I may take you up on that if I can ever get my springs. Right now, I'm just doing rears. I just want the car to be drivable until next fall when we get back from Europe and I can start looking for a nice small 4X4 SUV to drop that engine into.

OK, I give up. At the same time it's not really a bad thing as I've found several other sources of springs here in the states. Waiting for shops to start opening so i can call and find out if anyone is willing to split up a lowering kit and sell just the rears....even if not, the kit still costs about the same as the rear springs alone from England.

(10-05-2009 12:51 PM)Floridacyclist Wrote:  Well, I at least got one reply from Keir. He said that he was trying to attach the quote to the email, but I didn't see it. I asked him to try it again with no results. Will try again in a day or so.

Does anyone know if the stock coil spring from the following cars would fit? It is available at http://search.drivewire.com/drivewire/dw...33-1614141

MERCEDES 300SE/S320/400SE W140,(Exc. S/Lev.) 1.0 in 1.0 in 04/1991 12/1994
MERCEDES S420/500SEL W140,(Exc. S/Lev.) 1.0 in 1.0 in 04/1991 12/1994

The springs I got were not from a lowering kit. They were, however, lowering springs for a Mercedes S600. Make sure whatever you get it cross-references to the Lesjofors PN or you could be getting something that will not work. The regular W140 springs are way too thin. Before you buy, get specs on the spring rate of the spring, and compare it to the value for the Lesjofors spring posted higher up in the thread.

Sorry to hear you are having trouble with the parts house. They were great with me. You could try talking to another parts place in Europe, I tried everywhere I could find in the U.S. but they all had this crap lowering kit and not the Lesjofors springs I was after. I selected these springs based on their spring rate, which was the highest of anything I could find in the correct length and footprint dimensions.

Just went on a 300mi trip with 400+lbs of stuff in the back, averaged about 90mph, 3700rpm, 20mpg, and the suspension was great! These springs are definitely a good mod if you aren't married to the SLS.

State side supplier available in March 2010 for Lesjofors springs (part # 42 568 69) and Moog spring supplier
After many Emails to Lesjofors UK and Lesjofors Coprporate and emails/ph calls to GSF in UK (Never really got through to GSF, only a forwarding email received) I believe I have a solution to the supplier problem. Lesjofors was very helpful and referred me to Gregory Lindlahr of Interamerican Motor Corporation (IMC). I explained to Gregory of the need for these springs and was told via Email that IMC will be stocking a limited number of these springs. They will be available in MARCH 2010 to their retailers- since they are shipped by boat. My retailer of choice (wonderful people - Donna especially) is Union Auto Parts, Ballston Spa NY 12020 "unionforeign at msn.com" (518) 885-6003.

Note: IMC cannot sell to you directly - They are a wholesaler only
& - If you want the std spring Lesjofors pn 42 568 07 as opposed to the heavy duty needed for the 300td- IMC has it in stock

Since one side of my car is sagging badly making it unstable in winter I could not wait that long and have ordered ($200 incl shipping) a set from
propigskin at aol.com who uses a Moog spring - not sure if he modifies them - also he states that no shims are used. I will report on that install as soon as its done. Would of rather gone with the Lesjofors but gotta get it done ASAP due to winter
Thanks to all - esp Greasy Beast - who have done so much painstaking research

Update - Moog Spring Received 1.21.2010 Specs below
Moog as measured Lesjofors from prev post
Wire Diam .70in = 17.8mm vs 18mm Lesjofors
Length 14.375in = 355.6mm vs 356mm Lesjofors
OD 5.5in= 139.7mm vs 134mm Lesjofors
Displacement/force (mm/NM) unknown - tricky to measure

Spring reference Info:
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/S...lical.html

Update 8.2.2010 from Rich G:
Installation:
I removed the rubber hose on the "bottom" end of the spring due to concerns about spring fitting into the receptacle on the swing arm- should not of done that - I now get a nasty sounding noise when cornering hard
I used the small 9mm rubber shims on top - ride height is perfect
BTW I used 3 continuous (no hooks) cargo straps to compress and un-compress springs. Any 1 strap is rated for spring load so I believe there is a good safety margin. Take your time and compress each one a little bit in turn. When de-compressing you have to "sacrifice" the last strap by cutting it since it will be wedged around rubber shim. After cutting and removing I tied it with a good knot and reused it as the sacrifice strap on the next spring.

INstallation: Shock top clearance - since this is on a 300td wagon there is a problem with the tops of the shocks interfering with the carpeted cover plate. I ground the top of the locking nut and shock rod after tightening and carpeted cover plate fits perfectly. May be impossible to remove & re-install shock if that ever is necessary.
BTW - Had a very hard time removing carpeted cover plate (Its the 6" or so carpeted strip behind the rear seat) After 25 years the paint on both the frame and bottom of carpeted cover plate were glued together very well - kept looking for hidden screws holding it :-). There are 2 screws on top in the carpet and 3? behind rear seat. I also had to remove side panels and rear seat back to get my cover plate off. Your mileage may vary.

Results:
*Ride height is perfect
*Ride is nice -may be slightly? firmer than stock but certainly not harsh
*Nasty cornering noise - due I believe to my removing "hose" on lower end of spring and the fact that Moog spring is an incorrect spring type - spring is not "bent flat" (called closed end spring) on bottom as is stock spring.
*Does not sag with moderate load - or light trailering
*Have not loaded it up yet with (5) 200lb people and luggage - suspect it will be good

Conclusion - Moog springs will work - probably very well if correctly installed but I'd use the Lesjofors - They are available from Union @ $89 + shipping. 518 885 6003. "unionforeign at msn.com" Email may not always get through spam filter. Your local parts dealer may be able to get them too so you can save on shipping. Supposed to be a lot in stock now @ IMC

Excellent news RichG!

Good to hear. Price on the Moog spring? SRP for the Lesjofors when they do arrive? I'm just looking for a ball park figure for reference, I've got cut 300D springs in the back of my 240D now and I actually kind of like them, but I'm curious to see about these.

What about adapting some variable rate coil springs from some other manufacturer?

Without asserting that any of the following speculation will work, heres some tentative research I was doing-
I was actually initially looking at adapting an air bag suspension for a lincoln into a MB, until I read all the complaints about THOSE failing as well, then I was looking at lincoln towncar air bag replacement springs.

There is some room to play with underneath as far as spring seating cups, not much, but a little.

A second generation towncar weighs in at 4040 lbs, as compared to a 300TD's 3740, so they are only 300lbs apart, BUT, you can buy replacement springs the same size that are made for stretch Lincoln limo's with the same variable rate with way higher capacity.

Plus, they are cheap- 167 bucks for a set of replacement coils for a standard second generation lincoln-
[attachment=2174]

And 227 bucks for a set of limo springs, (plus they have this crazy looking little mini spring as well, would be interesting to see how that suspension works)
[attachment=2175]

This is all wild speculation, but they do have comfy rides, and can hold a lot of weight.

If you want a set of rear vogtlands I have two of them. The front's are on my wagon with a perfect SLS that I will not be changing, so PM or email with interest.

(12-28-2009 10:18 AM)Rich G Wrote:  

Since one side of my car is sagging badly making it unstable in winter I could not wait that long and [b]have ordered a set from
propigskin at aol.com who uses a Moog spring - not sure if he modifies them - also he states that no shims are used. I will report on that install as soon as its done. Would of rather gone with the Lesjofors but gotta get it done ASAP due to winter

Did you install these yet? How did it turn out?

(02-06-2010 03:49 PM)CID Vicious Wrote:  Good to hear. Price on the Moog spring? SRP for the Lesjofors when they do arrive? I'm just looking for a ball park figure for reference, I've got cut 300D springs in the back of my 240D now and I actually kind of like them, but I'm curious to see about these.

$200 for the Moogs
SRP for the Lesjofors has been requested
Lesjofors UPDATE Now in stock @$89 ea

Wondered what happened to this interesting thread, good to see it back. Ended up stumbling on a peach thread where someone is selling (been awhile now) a custom wound spring for as I recall ~ a coupla hundred bucks, when I find it i'll post it, can't say i've heard mention of it here, did I miss it?

in the meantime ..other spring stuff

http://(use the actual website address).com/2c34mf8

http://(use the actual website address).com/26rkfaz

http://(use the actual website address).com/28pqkc5

http://picasaweb.google.com/franklynb0/T...ectPhotos#

EDIT - here's what i was after
http://(use the actual website address).com/2b5npck

I emailed unionforeign they didn't respond to me. Anyone know a supplier for the Lesjofors springs on the west coast. Moogs no spring shim sounds sketchy.

had some prob with the above links and fixed them up for the springs info