Seeking knowledge of OM606A oil filter block
Seeking knowledge of OM606A oil filter block
Notable symptoms:
- Oil drains back to the sump after a few hours (filter compartment is empty). The picture is exactly how it looks when the filter is pulled.
- Oil pressure warning if started after a few hours.
- Once warm, a faint rattle until RPMs are up slightly.
I believe this problem is in the oil filter block. Specifically the over pressure return valve, item 3.3 on the diagram. I inspected the filter material and found some aluminum spirals. These probably came from a refurbished oil->air cooler (the new part is NLA). If a similar spiral got into item 3.3 it would explain all. If the problem were at 3.8 then the bottom of the filter compartment should still be partially full of oil, which it isn't. I suppose it could siphon up and over through the filter material.
Anyone know that oil filter block well, or have experience with this?
I recently worked over much of my engine. It runs great, but has developed an oil pressure problem.
Notable symptoms:
- Oil drains back to the sump after a few hours (filter compartment is empty). The picture is exactly how it looks when the filter is pulled.
- Oil pressure warning if started after a few hours.
- Once warm, a faint rattle until RPMs are up slightly.
I believe this problem is in the oil filter block. Specifically the over pressure return valve, item 3.3 on the diagram. I inspected the filter material and found some aluminum spirals. These probably came from a refurbished oil->air cooler (the new part is NLA). If a similar spiral got into item 3.3 it would explain all. If the problem were at 3.8 then the bottom of the filter compartment should still be partially full of oil, which it isn't. I suppose it could siphon up and over through the filter material.
Anyone know that oil filter block well, or have experience with this?
A kind friend turned up with a 606A filter block. So, I've been looking at how it works. Pretty clever casting and machining.
3.3, the anti-drainback valve is easy to get to, but it is staked in. That would easily explain the drainback problem. I'm presuming that it is fouled, I'll have to see if I can clean it up in place. But doesn't explain low oil pressure at idle. Either way, It looks like I'll have to pull the filter block.
3.8, which appears to be an overpressure valve (venting back to the pan) does not appear to be part of the filter block. Instead it must be in the
block (as the diagram shows). Anyone have a clue where I would find it? Really don't want to pull the oil pan, but there may be no choice.
Anyone have a picture of the side of the block with the oil filter block removed? Maybe it is visible from that point?
Yep. Both are in position. That was also my first hope. Those two little O-rings are vital. If the smaller one is missing you lose all oil pressure. If the larger one is missing oil will bypass the filter.
A kind friend turned up with a 606A filter block. So, I've been looking at how it works. Pretty clever casting and machining.
3.3, the anti-drainback valve is easy to get to, but it is staked in. That would easily explain the drainback problem. I'm presuming that it is fouled, I'll have to see if I can clean it up in place. But doesn't explain low oil pressure at idle. Either way, It looks like I'll have to pull the filter block.
3.8, which appears to be an overpressure valve (venting back to the pan) does not appear to be part of the filter block. Instead it must be in the
block (as the diagram shows). Anyone have a clue where I would find it? Really don't want to pull the oil pan, but there may be no choice.
Anyone have a picture of the side of the block with the oil filter block removed? Maybe it is visible from that point?
AlanMcR Yep. Both are in position. That was also my first hope. Those two little O-rings are vital. If the smaller one is missing you lose all oil pressure. If the larger one is missing oil will bypass the filter.Here is a picture of the block behind the oil filter housing, there is no valve in the block. Did you have the front timing cover off, there is a o-ring between the cover and the block that feeds the timing chain I believe.
A kind friend turned up with a 606A filter block. So, I've been looking at how it works. Pretty clever casting and machining.
3.3, the anti-drainback valve is easy to get to, but it is staked in. That would easily explain the drainback problem. I'm presuming that it is fouled, I'll have to see if I can clean it up in place. But doesn't explain low oil pressure at idle. Either way, It looks like I'll have to pull the filter block.
3.8, which appears to be an overpressure valve (venting back to the pan) does not appear to be part of the filter block. Instead it must be in the
block (as the diagram shows). Anyone have a clue where I would find it? Really don't want to pull the oil pan, but there may be no choice.
Anyone have a picture of the side of the block with the oil filter block removed? Maybe it is visible from that point?
AlanMcR Yep. Both are in position. That was also my first hope. Those two little O-rings are vital. If the smaller one is missing you lose all oil pressure. If the larger one is missing oil will bypass the filter.Here is a picture of the block behind the oil filter housing, there is no valve in the block. Did you have the front timing cover off, there is a o-ring between the cover and the block that feeds the timing chain I believe.
A kind friend turned up with a 606A filter block. So, I've been looking at how it works. Pretty clever casting and machining.
3.3, the anti-drainback valve is easy to get to, but it is staked in. That would easily explain the drainback problem. I'm presuming that it is fouled, I'll have to see if I can clean it up in place. But doesn't explain low oil pressure at idle. Either way, It looks like I'll have to pull the filter block.
3.8, which appears to be an overpressure valve (venting back to the pan) does not appear to be part of the filter block. Instead it must be in the
block (as the diagram shows). Anyone have a clue where I would find it? Really don't want to pull the oil pan, but there may be no choice.
Anyone have a picture of the side of the block with the oil filter block removed? Maybe it is visible from that point?
Important point: the leak was not there for the first 2-300 miles. It showed up after some vigorous driving (long mountain passes, etc). The engine never got hot <90C, no matter how hard I pressed it. Plenty of power.
I had the timing cover off. I did see the thick/small O-ring that sealed the vacuum pump oil nozzle against the cover. #113 in the drawing, though the O-ring looks quite different than the drawing. It is easy to lose, but I think I got it into place correctly. There is one other tricky spot that has me worried. On the passenger side sealing face of the block, there is a circular indent where an oil galley ends and meets a drilled galley to (if I recall correctly) the vacuum pump oil nozzle and the chain oiler. This opening is sealed by the front cover. The mating area is quite thin and maybe the anaerobic sealant blew out of that area.
Important point: the leak was not there for the first 2-300 miles. It showed up after some vigorous driving (long mountain passes, etc). The engine never got hot <90C, no matter how hard I pressed it. Plenty of power.
I have now determined that the oil filter block is working as designed. The non-return valve is sealing properly, and there was about 2cm of oil level above it. The oil feed line from the oil pump was full (until I pulled the filter block). The rest of the oil filter block was empty. This matches up with the oil level rising significantly after an hour sitting.
This means that the oil is leaking out internal to the engine. This matches up with the tapping heard at warm idle. Somewhere in the engine there is a large leak that the oil pump is barely keeping up with. No other strange engine sounds.
Oil pressure warning that stays around for 15 seconds. Note that the instrument cluster suppresses the oil pressure warning for a few seconds after cranking. I've only once seen an oil pressure warning over the last 280K miles. And that was after changing the oil, and then only for a second.
I have now determined that the oil filter block is working as designed. The non-return valve is sealing properly, and there was about 2cm of oil level above it. The oil feed line from the oil pump was full (until I pulled the filter block). The rest of the oil filter block was empty. This matches up with the oil level rising significantly after an hour sitting.
This means that the oil is leaking out internal to the engine. This matches up with the tapping heard at warm idle. Somewhere in the engine there is a large leak that the oil pump is barely keeping up with. No other strange engine sounds.
AlanMcR Oil pressure warning that stays around for 15 seconds. Note that the instrument cluster suppresses the oil pressure warning for a few seconds after cranking. I've only once seen an oil pressure warning over the last 280K miles. And that was after changing the oil, and then only for a second.I wonder if one of the piston oilers is defective? They have a check valve in them. I don't see any other area other then a crankshaft bearing or just a bad oil pump.
I have now determined that the oil filter block is working as designed. The non-return valve is sealing properly, and there was about 2cm of oil level above it. The oil feed line from the oil pump was full (until I pulled the filter block). The rest of the oil filter block was empty. This matches up with the oil level rising significantly after an hour sitting.
This means that the oil is leaking out internal to the engine. This matches up with the tapping heard at warm idle. Somewhere in the engine there is a large leak that the oil pump is barely keeping up with. No other strange engine sounds.
AlanMcR Oil pressure warning that stays around for 15 seconds. Note that the instrument cluster suppresses the oil pressure warning for a few seconds after cranking. I've only once seen an oil pressure warning over the last 280K miles. And that was after changing the oil, and then only for a second.I wonder if one of the piston oilers is defective? They have a check valve in them. I don't see any other area other then a crankshaft bearing or just a bad oil pump.
I have now determined that the oil filter block is working as designed. The non-return valve is sealing properly, and there was about 2cm of oil level above it. The oil feed line from the oil pump was full (until I pulled the filter block). The rest of the oil filter block was empty. This matches up with the oil level rising significantly after an hour sitting.
This means that the oil is leaking out internal to the engine. This matches up with the tapping heard at warm idle. Somewhere in the engine there is a large leak that the oil pump is barely keeping up with. No other strange engine sounds.
I plugged a snug fitting hose into the block where the clean oil comes in from the filter. I can rather freely blow air through the hose with out straining at all.
Taking the pan off soon. Doubt I'll see anything there. I'm guessing the problem is behind the front cover. If it were higher then the oil wouldn't run out.
They are certainly i the running for the leak. And it has to be a leak. If it were merely a bad oil pump the oil wouldn't simply run out of the system when stopped. everything downstream of the non-return valve is dry and has to be refilled with each start.
I plugged a snug fitting hose into the block where the clean oil comes in from the filter. I can rather freely blow air through the hose with out straining at all.
Taking the pan off soon. Doubt I'll see anything there. I'm guessing the problem is behind the front cover. If it were higher then the oil wouldn't run out.
Much was done to the engine. Notably the front cover came off to address chain slides. That is where I think the problem is. The front cover seals the end of at least one oil galley. It is mounted with no gasket (aerobic sealant only). If it didn't seat completely flush, then the gap may have been too wide for the sealant to hold.
Oil level is fine. It does rise substantially after stopping as the filter cavity empties. Yes the OM606 has a oil pressure sender, just a binary low pressure indication. That is suppressed for a few seconds until the engine is running.
Much was done to the engine. Notably the front cover came off to address chain slides. That is where I think the problem is. The front cover seals the end of at least one oil galley. It is mounted with no gasket (aerobic sealant only). If it didn't seat completely flush, then the gap may have been too wide for the sealant to hold.
Oil pressure usually rise within 10 sec after 1 month park.
Oil filter housings tend to change from models... nevertheless your consern in that particular area in the cover chain is not a problem.
Oil that does not drip there drip at oil pump wich is end of gallery. Filter housing has some check valves but do not seal 100%.
I would suspect the sender unit.... if not check oil press with a gage. If it happens to be low... welll put the gloves on...
Sorry.
FD,
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Anyway , 606 with oil press light... not in europe. At least all i have seen.
Oil pressure usually rise within 10 sec after 1 month park.
Oil filter housings tend to change from models... nevertheless your consern in that particular area in the cover chain is not a problem.
Oil that does not drip there drip at oil pump wich is end of gallery. Filter housing has some check valves but do not seal 100%.
I would suspect the sender unit.... if not check oil press with a gage. If it happens to be low... welll put the gloves on...
Sorry.
FD,
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I got the pan off and found it to be surgically clean (except for the black oil, of course). A friend that was helping me pull the engine was very observant and noticed that the oil pickup looked too dark inside. The screen was blocked! A scrap of shop rag ~3x3cm must have fallen into the engine during the rebuild. Anyway, after 100 miles or so, it got sucked into the screen.
This caused all of the symptoms:
When cold, the thick oil moved slowly through the rag, causing the oil pressure light to stay on for an extended time.
When hot, the rag slowed down the oil flow enough that the last few lifters were clattering.
Slightly higher RPMs moved more oil and stopped the clatter.
All's well that ends well. Everything bolted together and it is running fine. Sealing the pan from below is not easy and it looks like I'll have to give that a second try.
Well, I finally got to the source of the problem. (drum roll)
I got the pan off and found it to be surgically clean (except for the black oil, of course). A friend that was helping me pull the engine was very observant and noticed that the oil pickup looked too dark inside. The screen was blocked! A scrap of shop rag ~3x3cm must have fallen into the engine during the rebuild. Anyway, after 100 miles or so, it got sucked into the screen.
This caused all of the symptoms:
When cold, the thick oil moved slowly through the rag, causing the oil pressure light to stay on for an extended time.
When hot, the rag slowed down the oil flow enough that the last few lifters were clattering.
Slightly higher RPMs moved more oil and stopped the clatter.
All's well that ends well. Everything bolted together and it is running fine. Sealing the pan from below is not easy and it looks like I'll have to give that a second try.
50harleyrider
12-22-2020, 07:29 AM #17My engine holds really high idling pressure ~70 psi at cold startup and goes down to 10 psi hot idling. I'm running Shell Rotella T6 54w40 full synthetic. This seems to indicate the 5w figure isn't exactly accurate cold and the 40 figure also is not accurate hot. Maybe there's a quality problem with this oil given the cheap price at Walmart. Others have said they also see low hot pressures hot and not to worry. I recently put my Derale oil cooler back on with large short (<2 ft) 3/4 hoses and the big 10AN fittings and noticed another 5 psi drop hot. That makes sense due to pressure drop caused by the aluminum cooler and the lines. What oil brand and weight have others found maximizes hot oil pressure? I left the factory Ford sending unit teed in on my conversion and see no low indication on the dash gage needle. I suspect it won't move until the pressure gets below 5 psi. What pressures and oil are you running AlanMcR and zeeman?
I've used Delo 15W40 for the life of the two OM606s we have. 600K+ miles so far. No bearing wear visible and crosshatching still visible at the top ring turnaround.
Perhaps the pressure relief valve in the oil pump is stuck. Can't remember what it is supposed to open at. As far as hot idle, I think the minimum pressure is 0.3bar.
I've used Delo 15W40 for the life of the two OM606s we have. 600K+ miles so far. No bearing wear visible and crosshatching still visible at the top ring turnaround.
(12-22-2020, 07:29 AM)50harleyrider My engine holds really high idling pressure ~70 psi at cold startup and goes down to 10 psi hot idling. I'm running Shell Rotella T6 54w40 full synthetic. This seems to indicate the 5w figure isn't exactly accurate cold and the 40 figure also is not accurate hot. Maybe there's a quality problem with this oil given the cheap price at Walmart. Others have said they also see low hot pressures hot and not to worry. I recently put my Derale oil cooler back on with large short (<2 ft) 3/4 hoses and the big 10AN fittings and noticed another 5 psi drop hot. That makes sense due to pressure drop caused by the aluminum cooler and the lines. What oil brand and weight have others found maximizes hot oil pressure? I left the factory Ford sending unit teed in on my conversion and see no low indication on the dash gage needle. I suspect it won't move until the pressure gets below 5 psi. What pressures and oil are you running AlanMcR and zeeman?I am running Rotella also and have about the same pressures, never had a problem. The A/N fittings should be -12 to be the correct ID size.
(12-22-2020, 07:29 AM)50harleyrider My engine holds really high idling pressure ~70 psi at cold startup and goes down to 10 psi hot idling. I'm running Shell Rotella T6 54w40 full synthetic. This seems to indicate the 5w figure isn't exactly accurate cold and the 40 figure also is not accurate hot. Maybe there's a quality problem with this oil given the cheap price at Walmart. Others have said they also see low hot pressures hot and not to worry. I recently put my Derale oil cooler back on with large short (<2 ft) 3/4 hoses and the big 10AN fittings and noticed another 5 psi drop hot. That makes sense due to pressure drop caused by the aluminum cooler and the lines. What oil brand and weight have others found maximizes hot oil pressure? I left the factory Ford sending unit teed in on my conversion and see no low indication on the dash gage needle. I suspect it won't move until the pressure gets below 5 psi. What pressures and oil are you running AlanMcR and zeeman?I am running Rotella also and have about the same pressures, never had a problem. The A/N fittings should be -12 to be the correct ID size.
(12-21-2020, 11:34 PM)AlanMcR Well, I finally got to the source of the problem. (drum roll)See what happens when you drink beer and watch the football game when your putting your engine together ! LOL
I got the pan off and found it to be surgically clean (except for the black oil, of course). A friend that was helping me pull the engine was very observant and noticed that the oil pickup looked too dark inside. The screen was blocked! A scrap of shop rag ~3x3cm must have fallen into the engine during the rebuild. Anyway, after 100 miles or so, it got sucked into the screen.
This caused all of the symptoms:
When cold, the thick oil moved slowly through the rag, causing the oil pressure light to stay on for an extended time.
When hot, the rag slowed down the oil flow enough that the last few lifters were clattering.
Slightly higher RPMs moved more oil and stopped the clatter.
All's well that ends well. Everything bolted together and it is running fine. Sealing the pan from below is not easy and it looks like I'll have to give that a second try.
(12-21-2020, 11:34 PM)AlanMcR Well, I finally got to the source of the problem. (drum roll)See what happens when you drink beer and watch the football game when your putting your engine together ! LOL
I got the pan off and found it to be surgically clean (except for the black oil, of course). A friend that was helping me pull the engine was very observant and noticed that the oil pickup looked too dark inside. The screen was blocked! A scrap of shop rag ~3x3cm must have fallen into the engine during the rebuild. Anyway, after 100 miles or so, it got sucked into the screen.
This caused all of the symptoms:
When cold, the thick oil moved slowly through the rag, causing the oil pressure light to stay on for an extended time.
When hot, the rag slowed down the oil flow enough that the last few lifters were clattering.
Slightly higher RPMs moved more oil and stopped the clatter.
All's well that ends well. Everything bolted together and it is running fine. Sealing the pan from below is not easy and it looks like I'll have to give that a second try.
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