STD Tuning Engine good VNT upgrade for a K14

good VNT upgrade for a K14

good VNT upgrade for a K14

 
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50harleyrider
GTA2359VK

397
07-04-2018, 01:39 PM #1
I'm looking to get the quickest  possible spoolup for my F-150 606.962 so I'm looking to a VGT replacement for the k14 wastegated turbo. I'm running Baldurs DSL1 with a nice unrestricted air inlet and IC setup, stock IP and a 2.5" exhaust with a cat and a free flow muffler. Should I try an open exhaust(no cat or muffler first)? My HP requirement will not be much more than the oe setup but my truck is 1000 lbs heavier. I am running the E4OD with a USSHIFT tcu. Baldur thinks my stall is too low on the TC I'm using. He's probably right but even with the truck rolling it's still slow spooling and smoky. I want to get all I can before I start changing TC's or lower the gearing. The truck is turning around 2000 RPM at 70 MPH and feels really nice there.
This post was last modified: 07-04-2018, 02:00 PM by 50harleyrider.
50harleyrider
07-04-2018, 01:39 PM #1

I'm looking to get the quickest  possible spoolup for my F-150 606.962 so I'm looking to a VGT replacement for the k14 wastegated turbo. I'm running Baldurs DSL1 with a nice unrestricted air inlet and IC setup, stock IP and a 2.5" exhaust with a cat and a free flow muffler. Should I try an open exhaust(no cat or muffler first)? My HP requirement will not be much more than the oe setup but my truck is 1000 lbs heavier. I am running the E4OD with a USSHIFT tcu. Baldur thinks my stall is too low on the TC I'm using. He's probably right but even with the truck rolling it's still slow spooling and smoky. I want to get all I can before I start changing TC's or lower the gearing. The truck is turning around 2000 RPM at 70 MPH and feels really nice there.

Mr.Emo
Nissan Patrol -> 606 conversion.

69
07-04-2018, 02:17 PM #2
He341ve?
Mr.Emo
07-04-2018, 02:17 PM #2

He341ve?

R-3350
Dreaming of compounds

182
07-04-2018, 04:17 PM #3
i would look at a GT2359V or a GTB2260VKLR off of a OM642. they are both the right size for a 606 making a bit more than stock power and are a modern Garrett that should spool quite fast. i have heard the the 2260 can support ~250 ish maxed out but with it being a GTB series and not too big should light right around the stock turbo or sooner.

85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
R-3350
07-04-2018, 04:17 PM #3

i would look at a GT2359V or a GTB2260VKLR off of a OM642. they are both the right size for a 606 making a bit more than stock power and are a modern Garrett that should spool quite fast. i have heard the the 2260 can support ~250 ish maxed out but with it being a GTB series and not too big should light right around the stock turbo or sooner.


85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.

50harleyrider
GTA2359VK

397
07-04-2018, 07:33 PM #4
Isn't the GTB2260VKLR more suitable for a 1.9 TDI? Seems small for a 3 liter 24 valve 606.
50harleyrider
07-04-2018, 07:33 PM #4

Isn't the GTB2260VKLR more suitable for a 1.9 TDI? Seems small for a 3 liter 24 valve 606.

R-3350
Dreaming of compounds

182
07-04-2018, 08:45 PM #5
it pushes enough air for a 642 to make 300+. if you are not going much past stock like 200-225 ish and not turning it past 5500-6000 or so it should work fine.

85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
R-3350
07-04-2018, 08:45 PM #5

it pushes enough air for a 642 to make 300+. if you are not going much past stock like 200-225 ish and not turning it past 5500-6000 or so it should work fine.


85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.

50harleyrider
GTA2359VK

397
07-12-2018, 10:58 PM #6
How about this reman Garrett GT2056V? https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-TURBO-GT205...1438.l2649
It is for a 2.8 Jeep Cherokee so I can probably find a turbine exit pipe in the States. All the GT2556V I've found are Chinese. A new or reman Garrett will be really hard to find in the US since the BMW 330d wasn't imported. How about a baby Holset?
This post was last modified: 07-12-2018, 11:01 PM by 50harleyrider.
50harleyrider
07-12-2018, 10:58 PM #6

How about this reman Garrett GT2056V? https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-TURBO-GT205...1438.l2649
It is for a 2.8 Jeep Cherokee so I can probably find a turbine exit pipe in the States. All the GT2556V I've found are Chinese. A new or reman Garrett will be really hard to find in the US since the BMW 330d wasn't imported. How about a baby Holset?

atypicalguy
Holset

555
07-13-2018, 12:31 AM #7
(07-04-2018, 04:17 PM)R-3350 i would look at a GT2359V or a GTB2260VKLR off of a OM642. they are both the right size for a 606 making a bit more than stock power and are a modern Garrett that should spool quite fast. i have heard the the 2260 can support ~250 ish maxed out but with it being a GTB series and not too big should light right around the stock turbo or sooner.

+1 on the 2359V. I think that one is stock on the OM648. Should spool instantly.
atypicalguy
07-13-2018, 12:31 AM #7

(07-04-2018, 04:17 PM)R-3350 i would look at a GT2359V or a GTB2260VKLR off of a OM642. they are both the right size for a 606 making a bit more than stock power and are a modern Garrett that should spool quite fast. i have heard the the 2260 can support ~250 ish maxed out but with it being a GTB series and not too big should light right around the stock turbo or sooner.

+1 on the 2359V. I think that one is stock on the OM648. Should spool instantly.

R-3350
Dreaming of compounds

182
07-13-2018, 10:50 AM #8
look for a used turbo off a 320 cdi or a 350 bluetec those would be the ones you are interested in

85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
R-3350
07-13-2018, 10:50 AM #8

look for a used turbo off a 320 cdi or a 350 bluetec those would be the ones you are interested in


85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.

50harleyrider
GTA2359VK

397
07-24-2018, 07:30 PM #9
I bought a GTA2359VK off a 2005 OM648. Baldur and I are contemplating how to control the electronic actuator with his DSL1. I hate to downgrade to a vacuum controller but may have to for simplicity of control. There are only three wires running to this controller so I hoped it defaults to one direction when powered and an ecu signal tells it to reverse. Has anyone on here had experience with these guys? the TDI vnt turbos I have are simple vacuum controlled with the spring direction default and the vacuum opposite. simple linear plus or minus control. Why wouldn't the electronic be the same with its' internal control defaulting the motor one direction until the signal from the ecu tells it to reverse? I'm so exited to have a vnt for spoolup as the effective AR is really low from idle so major spool improvement over the wastegate..
This post was last modified: 07-24-2018, 07:34 PM by 50harleyrider.
50harleyrider
07-24-2018, 07:30 PM #9

I bought a GTA2359VK off a 2005 OM648. Baldur and I are contemplating how to control the electronic actuator with his DSL1. I hate to downgrade to a vacuum controller but may have to for simplicity of control. There are only three wires running to this controller so I hoped it defaults to one direction when powered and an ecu signal tells it to reverse. Has anyone on here had experience with these guys? the TDI vnt turbos I have are simple vacuum controlled with the spring direction default and the vacuum opposite. simple linear plus or minus control. Why wouldn't the electronic be the same with its' internal control defaulting the motor one direction until the signal from the ecu tells it to reverse? I'm so exited to have a vnt for spoolup as the effective AR is really low from idle so major spool improvement over the wastegate..

Mr.Emo
Nissan Patrol -> 606 conversion.

69
07-25-2018, 02:56 AM #10
What are you hoping to get hp wise?
Mr.Emo
07-25-2018, 02:56 AM #10

What are you hoping to get hp wise?

50harleyrider
GTA2359VK

397
07-25-2018, 06:19 AM #11
(07-25-2018, 02:56 AM)Mr.Emo What are you hoping to get hp wise?

That turbo will easily produce 200+hp on a 3 liter diesel. My goal here is to achieve the maximum early spool off idle taking full advantage of a variable vanes' huge advantage over a wastegated turbos' slow low rpm spoolup. Its all about the low AR ratio which a wastegated turbo just doesn't have at low rpm. Low AR means high exhaust gas velocity through the turbine blades and quick spool.
This post was last modified: 07-25-2018, 06:29 AM by 50harleyrider.
50harleyrider
07-25-2018, 06:19 AM #11

(07-25-2018, 02:56 AM)Mr.Emo What are you hoping to get hp wise?

That turbo will easily produce 200+hp on a 3 liter diesel. My goal here is to achieve the maximum early spool off idle taking full advantage of a variable vanes' huge advantage over a wastegated turbos' slow low rpm spoolup. Its all about the low AR ratio which a wastegated turbo just doesn't have at low rpm. Low AR means high exhaust gas velocity through the turbine blades and quick spool.

50harleyrider
GTA2359VK

397
08-06-2018, 02:57 PM #12
What are folks using for oil supply lines to aftermarket turbos on the OM606.962 engines? The Garrett I have chosen has a smaller hard piped line than the OE K14. Both have banjo fittings, the oe K14 much larger. I'd like to adapt the large pipe to a braided hose that will fit the smaller banjo fitting on the Garrett. Also need to adapt the drain line. The K14 drain line has a hard piped 2 bolt flange on the outlet and the Garrett the same but smaller. I need to keep the drain line as large as possible to protect the turbo seals.
50harleyrider
08-06-2018, 02:57 PM #12

What are folks using for oil supply lines to aftermarket turbos on the OM606.962 engines? The Garrett I have chosen has a smaller hard piped line than the OE K14. Both have banjo fittings, the oe K14 much larger. I'd like to adapt the large pipe to a braided hose that will fit the smaller banjo fitting on the Garrett. Also need to adapt the drain line. The K14 drain line has a hard piped 2 bolt flange on the outlet and the Garrett the same but smaller. I need to keep the drain line as large as possible to protect the turbo seals.

starynovy
Holset

338
08-06-2018, 03:27 PM #13
Fully closed it will boost from 1200RPM no problem, but max. power is limited on these. 250HP would be around maximum, it may make 300HP but not on prechamber diesel.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
starynovy
08-06-2018, 03:27 PM #13

Fully closed it will boost from 1200RPM no problem, but max. power is limited on these. 250HP would be around maximum, it may make 300HP but not on prechamber diesel.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW

Austincarnut
Holset

298
08-06-2018, 09:40 PM #14
(07-24-2018, 07:30 PM)50harleyrider I bought a GTA2359VK off a 2005 OM648. Baldur and I are contemplating how to control the electronic actuator with his DSL1. I hate to downgrade to a vacuum controller but may have to for simplicity of control. There are only three wires running to this controller so I hoped it defaults to one direction when powered and an ecu signal tells it to reverse. Has anyone on here had experience with these guys? the TDI vnt turbos I have are simple vacuum controlled with the spring direction default and the vacuum opposite. simple linear plus or minus control. Why wouldn't the electronic be the same with its' internal control defaulting the motor one direction until the signal from the ecu tells it to reverse? I'm so exited to have a vnt for spoolup as the effective AR is really low from idle so major spool improvement over the wastegate..

I have a good turbo off of a 642 if you're still looking at options...
Austincarnut
08-06-2018, 09:40 PM #14

(07-24-2018, 07:30 PM)50harleyrider I bought a GTA2359VK off a 2005 OM648. Baldur and I are contemplating how to control the electronic actuator with his DSL1. I hate to downgrade to a vacuum controller but may have to for simplicity of control. There are only three wires running to this controller so I hoped it defaults to one direction when powered and an ecu signal tells it to reverse. Has anyone on here had experience with these guys? the TDI vnt turbos I have are simple vacuum controlled with the spring direction default and the vacuum opposite. simple linear plus or minus control. Why wouldn't the electronic be the same with its' internal control defaulting the motor one direction until the signal from the ecu tells it to reverse? I'm so exited to have a vnt for spoolup as the effective AR is really low from idle so major spool improvement over the wastegate..

I have a good turbo off of a 642 if you're still looking at options...

Petar
7.5mm M pump

459
08-07-2018, 01:56 AM #15
(07-24-2018, 07:30 PM)50harleyrider I bought a GTA2359VK off a 2005 OM648. Baldur and I are contemplating how to control the electronic actuator with his DSL1
...

This might be helpfull:

http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...hp?tid=614
Petar
08-07-2018, 01:56 AM #15

(07-24-2018, 07:30 PM)50harleyrider I bought a GTA2359VK off a 2005 OM648. Baldur and I are contemplating how to control the electronic actuator with his DSL1
...

This might be helpfull:

http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...hp?tid=614

50harleyrider
GTA2359VK

397
08-07-2018, 06:04 PM #16
I went ahead and converted to a vacuum actuator. Thanks for all the input but I really need help on oil lines now. Surely someone has gone through this when saying bye bye to the K14.
This post was last modified: 08-07-2018, 06:05 PM by 50harleyrider.
50harleyrider
08-07-2018, 06:04 PM #16

I went ahead and converted to a vacuum actuator. Thanks for all the input but I really need help on oil lines now. Surely someone has gone through this when saying bye bye to the K14.

R-3350
Dreaming of compounds

182
08-08-2018, 12:00 AM #17
not sure on the return side but the feed should be easy to adapt. a banjo fitting from the filter to an AN line then just adapt the line to the inlet at the turbo side. if its a threaded fitting get an adapter if its a bolt on flange just braze a steel AN fitting on to it. i run a 48" AN4 from the 14mm banjo at my filter to the M12 inlet fitting with an in line restrictor orifice to drop the oil pressure and a AN4 to M12 fitting.

85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
R-3350
08-08-2018, 12:00 AM #17

not sure on the return side but the feed should be easy to adapt. a banjo fitting from the filter to an AN line then just adapt the line to the inlet at the turbo side. if its a threaded fitting get an adapter if its a bolt on flange just braze a steel AN fitting on to it. i run a 48" AN4 from the 14mm banjo at my filter to the M12 inlet fitting with an in line restrictor orifice to drop the oil pressure and a AN4 to M12 fitting.


85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.

50harleyrider
GTA2359VK

397
08-08-2018, 06:29 AM #18
The oe supply line attaches to the right side of the block not the filter.
50harleyrider
08-08-2018, 06:29 AM #18

The oe supply line attaches to the right side of the block not the filter.

R-3350
Dreaming of compounds

182
08-08-2018, 09:20 AM #19
the block side fitting is a M16x1.5 bubble flare you could just cut the pipe an inch or so outside the fitting and weld an AN fitting on or have a local shop do it. im not sure exactly what the oil feed side of the turbo is but you should be able to adapt it to AN. then you wont have to worry about the length or positioning of the original feed line.

something like this for the block side 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4AN-AN4-AN-4-AN...itleDesc=0

85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
R-3350
08-08-2018, 09:20 AM #19

the block side fitting is a M16x1.5 bubble flare you could just cut the pipe an inch or so outside the fitting and weld an AN fitting on or have a local shop do it. im not sure exactly what the oil feed side of the turbo is but you should be able to adapt it to AN. then you wont have to worry about the length or positioning of the original feed line.

something like this for the block side 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4AN-AN4-AN-4-AN...itleDesc=0


85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.

Mr.Emo
Nissan Patrol -> 606 conversion.

69
08-08-2018, 01:27 PM #20
Check out oleelstad on Instagram. I just did the conversion and took some pictures of it. Smile
Mr.Emo
08-08-2018, 01:27 PM #20

Check out oleelstad on Instagram. I just did the conversion and took some pictures of it. Smile

MTUPower
looking for more power on a daily driver

287
08-13-2018, 11:54 AM #21
(08-07-2018, 06:04 PM)50harleyrider I went ahead and converted to a vacuum actuator. Thanks for all the input but I really need help on oil lines now. Surely someone has gone through this when saying bye bye to the K14.

Pics and notes from your vacuum actuator for the group please

2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
MTUPower
08-13-2018, 11:54 AM #21

(08-07-2018, 06:04 PM)50harleyrider I went ahead and converted to a vacuum actuator. Thanks for all the input but I really need help on oil lines now. Surely someone has gone through this when saying bye bye to the K14.

Pics and notes from your vacuum actuator for the group please


2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's

50harleyrider
GTA2359VK

397
08-15-2018, 01:59 PM #22
Pics aren't necessary. I got an actuator and thumb nut for a GT2052V off Ebay. They are here
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Wastegate...2749.l2649
I did have to cut the electronic actuator mount off the compressor housing to get the vacuum actuator to fit and mount. I also added an adjustable vane stop to the boss that was on the GTA 2359VK. I am adding an EGT probe and exhaust manifold pressure 6 bar sensor per Baldurs advice. I won't post up on this any more until it's installed and Baldur and I get the DSL1 to control it.
This post was last modified: 08-15-2018, 02:08 PM by 50harleyrider.
50harleyrider
08-15-2018, 01:59 PM #22

Pics aren't necessary. I got an actuator and thumb nut for a GT2052V off Ebay. They are here
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Wastegate...2749.l2649
I did have to cut the electronic actuator mount off the compressor housing to get the vacuum actuator to fit and mount. I also added an adjustable vane stop to the boss that was on the GTA 2359VK. I am adding an EGT probe and exhaust manifold pressure 6 bar sensor per Baldurs advice. I won't post up on this any more until it's installed and Baldur and I get the DSL1 to control it.

jav1
GT2256V

119
08-15-2018, 02:31 PM #23
Hey- that looks just like my VW TDI VNT actuator! I presume you'll be using the N75 vacuum modulating solenoid and Baldur will just provide a PWM signal to the N75?


I've been looking into this since we chatted about it. It seems the Turbo off the OM613 is similar to the one off the OM648- just vacuum controlled instead of electronic controlled. These seem available reasonably priced used from Europe. Has anyone been able to get a compressor map on these (gt2359v) units?


Any idea why you'd need a 6 bar MAP? Does anyone know that the stock OM606 MAP is rated for?
jav1
08-15-2018, 02:31 PM #23

Hey- that looks just like my VW TDI VNT actuator! I presume you'll be using the N75 vacuum modulating solenoid and Baldur will just provide a PWM signal to the N75?


I've been looking into this since we chatted about it. It seems the Turbo off the OM613 is similar to the one off the OM648- just vacuum controlled instead of electronic controlled. These seem available reasonably priced used from Europe. Has anyone been able to get a compressor map on these (gt2359v) units?


Any idea why you'd need a 6 bar MAP? Does anyone know that the stock OM606 MAP is rated for?

Petar
7.5mm M pump

459
08-15-2018, 02:36 PM #24
(08-15-2018, 02:31 PM)jav1 .... It seems the Turbo off the OM613 is similar to the one off the OM648- just vacuum controlled instead of electronic controlled....

It should be exactly the save beside the actuator. But someone with more hands on knowledge should confirm
This post was last modified: 08-15-2018, 02:36 PM by Petar.
Petar
08-15-2018, 02:36 PM #24

(08-15-2018, 02:31 PM)jav1 .... It seems the Turbo off the OM613 is similar to the one off the OM648- just vacuum controlled instead of electronic controlled....

It should be exactly the save beside the actuator. But someone with more hands on knowledge should confirm

50harleyrider
GTA2359VK

397
08-16-2018, 02:43 PM #25
the 6bar MAP sensor is for back pressure. Since We are starting from scratch on the vacuum regulator and I had to add a stop. I don't have any vane setting for the stop or a flow bench, so we will be initially monitoring back pressure closely so not to grenade anything. Huh I did get the turbo mounted today along with egt probe and pressure sensor fitting. The OM606 exhaust manifold is really hard. I couldn't even get a carbide bit to work so I had to drill the turbine housing just past the inlet to get my fittings in.
(08-15-2018, 02:31 PM)jav1 Hey- that looks just like my VW TDI VNT actuator!   I presume you'll be using the N75 vacuum modulating solenoid and Baldur will just provide a PWM signal to the N75?


I've been looking into this since we chatted about it.  It seems the Turbo off the OM613 is similar to the one off the OM648- just vacuum controlled instead of electronic controlled.  These seem available reasonably priced used from Europe.  Has anyone been able to get a compressor map on these (gt2359v) units?


Any idea why you'd need a 6 bar MAP?  Does anyone know that the stock OM606 MAP is rated for?
This post was last modified: 08-16-2018, 02:49 PM by 50harleyrider.
50harleyrider
08-16-2018, 02:43 PM #25

the 6bar MAP sensor is for back pressure. Since We are starting from scratch on the vacuum regulator and I had to add a stop. I don't have any vane setting for the stop or a flow bench, so we will be initially monitoring back pressure closely so not to grenade anything. Huh I did get the turbo mounted today along with egt probe and pressure sensor fitting. The OM606 exhaust manifold is really hard. I couldn't even get a carbide bit to work so I had to drill the turbine housing just past the inlet to get my fittings in.

(08-15-2018, 02:31 PM)jav1 Hey- that looks just like my VW TDI VNT actuator!   I presume you'll be using the N75 vacuum modulating solenoid and Baldur will just provide a PWM signal to the N75?


I've been looking into this since we chatted about it.  It seems the Turbo off the OM613 is similar to the one off the OM648- just vacuum controlled instead of electronic controlled.  These seem available reasonably priced used from Europe.  Has anyone been able to get a compressor map on these (gt2359v) units?


Any idea why you'd need a 6 bar MAP?  Does anyone know that the stock OM606 MAP is rated for?

jav1
GT2256V

119
08-16-2018, 03:54 PM #26
That's surprising on the manifold.  I'm following this:    https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/white-l...338/page-2.   Lots of good info and it seems he got the probe in the manifold.


On the VNT- are you using an N75 valve for the vacuum control?  I presume what your referring to as the stop is just the free length on the actuator arm?  That's how the TDI is setup and if memory serves, the extended position set the vanes as closed as they should go without constricting the exhaust enough to effect idle.  The actuator then opens the vanes as requested boost levels are approached to prevent an over-boost and to limit boost when loads are not present.


I presume baldur will have to setup another PID strategy for VNT control? Or are you guys trying to control Boost as it relates to exhaust back pressure as well?
This post was last modified: 08-16-2018, 03:55 PM by jav1.
jav1
08-16-2018, 03:54 PM #26

That's surprising on the manifold.  I'm following this:    https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/white-l...338/page-2.   Lots of good info and it seems he got the probe in the manifold.


On the VNT- are you using an N75 valve for the vacuum control?  I presume what your referring to as the stop is just the free length on the actuator arm?  That's how the TDI is setup and if memory serves, the extended position set the vanes as closed as they should go without constricting the exhaust enough to effect idle.  The actuator then opens the vanes as requested boost levels are approached to prevent an over-boost and to limit boost when loads are not present.


I presume baldur will have to setup another PID strategy for VNT control? Or are you guys trying to control Boost as it relates to exhaust back pressure as well?

baldur
Fast

505
08-16-2018, 05:16 PM #27
(08-16-2018, 03:54 PM)jav1 That's surprising on the manifold.  I'm following this:    https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/white-l...338/page-2.   Lots of good info and it seems he got the probe in the manifold.


On the VNT- are you using an N75 valve for the vacuum control?  I presume what your referring to as the stop is just the free length on the actuator arm?  That's how the TDI is setup and if memory serves, the extended position set the vanes as closed as they should go without constricting the exhaust enough to effect idle.  The actuator then opens the vanes as requested boost levels are approached to prevent an over-boost and to limit boost when loads are not present.


I presume baldur will have to setup another PID strategy for VNT control? Or are you guys trying to control Boost as it relates to exhaust back pressure as well?

We will start out with using the exhaust back pressure only as a reference for tuning the vane position. I have added a map to the boost control that lets one specify the control range of the boost control as a function of engine speed and boost level. This will prevent the vanes from going full closed on transients at high engine speeds, preventing them from restricting air flow too much on the spool up, but the control loop will target boost pressure and not exhaust back pressure.

Baldur Gislason

baldur
08-16-2018, 05:16 PM #27

(08-16-2018, 03:54 PM)jav1 That's surprising on the manifold.  I'm following this:    https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/white-l...338/page-2.   Lots of good info and it seems he got the probe in the manifold.


On the VNT- are you using an N75 valve for the vacuum control?  I presume what your referring to as the stop is just the free length on the actuator arm?  That's how the TDI is setup and if memory serves, the extended position set the vanes as closed as they should go without constricting the exhaust enough to effect idle.  The actuator then opens the vanes as requested boost levels are approached to prevent an over-boost and to limit boost when loads are not present.


I presume baldur will have to setup another PID strategy for VNT control? Or are you guys trying to control Boost as it relates to exhaust back pressure as well?

We will start out with using the exhaust back pressure only as a reference for tuning the vane position. I have added a map to the boost control that lets one specify the control range of the boost control as a function of engine speed and boost level. This will prevent the vanes from going full closed on transients at high engine speeds, preventing them from restricting air flow too much on the spool up, but the control loop will target boost pressure and not exhaust back pressure.


Baldur Gislason

barrote
Superturbo

1,627
08-17-2018, 12:09 PM #28
It works best by targuetting boost... unless u need(out of) fuel. EGP can be controlled by a WG on the EGR port.
Nothing works best...

FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
barrote
08-17-2018, 12:09 PM #28

It works best by targuetting boost... unless u need(out of) fuel. EGP can be controlled by a WG on the EGR port.
Nothing works best...


FD,
Powered by tractor fuel

jav1
GT2256V

119
08-17-2018, 12:56 PM #29
Barrote-

I think it's pretty smart that they will monitor EGP in conjunction with a VNT style turbo. I would bet there will be no need to dump exhaust thru the EGR port (to control EGP) since in all the literature I've read, one of benefits of VNT is the ability drive EGR flow... which suggests it can also NOT drive that flow by keeping EGP at equilibrium (or below) that of intake pressures?
jav1
08-17-2018, 12:56 PM #29

Barrote-

I think it's pretty smart that they will monitor EGP in conjunction with a VNT style turbo. I would bet there will be no need to dump exhaust thru the EGR port (to control EGP) since in all the literature I've read, one of benefits of VNT is the ability drive EGR flow... which suggests it can also NOT drive that flow by keeping EGP at equilibrium (or below) that of intake pressures?

50harleyrider
GTA2359VK

397
08-17-2018, 06:32 PM #30
All the tuned TDI's I've had in the past were fine with EGR delete and VNT turbos. All I monitored was EGT but again the VNT's I used were all preset on the max vane closure by Garrett with the factory stop. not so lucky here but in the long run will probably make a great match with egr delete thanks to Baldur.
50harleyrider
08-17-2018, 06:32 PM #30

All the tuned TDI's I've had in the past were fine with EGR delete and VNT turbos. All I monitored was EGT but again the VNT's I used were all preset on the max vane closure by Garrett with the factory stop. not so lucky here but in the long run will probably make a great match with egr delete thanks to Baldur.

jav1
GT2256V

119
08-17-2018, 08:59 PM #31
I think you guys are on the right track... so much so that I bought one today (om648) and will need to go the same route (delete the electronic control and install vacuum actuator)
jav1
08-17-2018, 08:59 PM #31

I think you guys are on the right track... so much so that I bought one today (om648) and will need to go the same route (delete the electronic control and install vacuum actuator)

atypicalguy
Holset

555
12-08-2018, 01:30 PM #32
Doesn’t ole already have this function on his tranny controller? He had a vid of him driving around on vnt in his SL somewhere
This post was last modified: 12-08-2018, 01:39 PM by atypicalguy.
atypicalguy
12-08-2018, 01:30 PM #32

Doesn’t ole already have this function on his tranny controller? He had a vid of him driving around on vnt in his SL somewhere

50harleyrider
GTA2359VK

397
08-07-2019, 12:25 PM #33
Can anyone tell me where the oe MAP sensor is located on a 99 w210 om606.962? My DSL1 software indicates the MAP stuck at 3000mb so I either have a loose wire or a faulty sensor. I think the oe is a 3 bar unit so should be fine for my GT2359va turbo I'm running.
50harleyrider
08-07-2019, 12:25 PM #33

Can anyone tell me where the oe MAP sensor is located on a 99 w210 om606.962? My DSL1 software indicates the MAP stuck at 3000mb so I either have a loose wire or a faulty sensor. I think the oe is a 3 bar unit so should be fine for my GT2359va turbo I'm running.

jav1
GT2256V

119
08-07-2019, 01:37 PM #34
if memory serves the stock map is bracket mounted with a hose (mounts to left fender well I think?). Also keep in mind its 3 bar absolute (2 bar relative). My Gt2056 pushes more than 2 bar
jav1
08-07-2019, 01:37 PM #34

if memory serves the stock map is bracket mounted with a hose (mounts to left fender well I think?). Also keep in mind its 3 bar absolute (2 bar relative). My Gt2056 pushes more than 2 bar

Tobulus
GT2256V

136
08-07-2019, 02:33 PM #35
I had a OM613 Turbo Gt2359V on my 605 with selfmade arduino controller. Worked very nice but the vanes had the tendency to stick. I cleaned them once, but the problem appeared again after a few thousand kilometers. Problem is, my wife drives the car and she drives too slow. The vanes get full of soot and never burn free. So I switched back to K14.

The Turbo itself is a great choice for the engine. It spools immediately even without any load and I was able to max out the 6mm electronic IP with it. Mounting it was a bit tricky, had to make adapters for the stock manifold to turbine inlet and compressor outlet. Also I had to turn the hot side of the turbo, which is tricky because of the vnt mechanism...
Tobulus
08-07-2019, 02:33 PM #35

I had a OM613 Turbo Gt2359V on my 605 with selfmade arduino controller. Worked very nice but the vanes had the tendency to stick. I cleaned them once, but the problem appeared again after a few thousand kilometers. Problem is, my wife drives the car and she drives too slow. The vanes get full of soot and never burn free. So I switched back to K14.

The Turbo itself is a great choice for the engine. It spools immediately even without any load and I was able to max out the 6mm electronic IP with it. Mounting it was a bit tricky, had to make adapters for the stock manifold to turbine inlet and compressor outlet. Also I had to turn the hot side of the turbo, which is tricky because of the vnt mechanism...

Agos
Naturally-aspirated

3
10-19-2023, 04:13 PM #36
Is it possible to convert the VNT turbo to pressure control? Purely mechanically? What do you think about the HE221W turbo for the OM605 engine?
Agos
10-19-2023, 04:13 PM #36

Is it possible to convert the VNT turbo to pressure control? Purely mechanically? What do you think about the HE221W turbo for the OM605 engine?

 
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