BOSCH VE pump adjusting
BOSCH VE pump adjusting
There is not much information about VE pump adjusting exept some threads about increasing fuel etc, but thats for people who have stock setup already.
I would like to know following things and I hope you guys can help me.
1. Timing of the pump. Is it 7 like some people say or is it 15 degrees BTDC? Is it correct to turn pumps sprocket toothless part to 11 o clock?
2. I would like to know purpose of the screw which leads to centrifugal governor and how to adjust it.
3. Full load/maximum fuel screw and throttle lever are basically attached to each other so I need some tips how is the correct way to get these right.
I got the car running few times. Smokes like hell and engine is very unresponsive to throttle.
MB 250D W124 OM602.982 2.9 swap '92 5 SPEED MANUAL
MB E320 CDI W211 '04
I just built mech. fuel pump for my 2.9 OM602 engine using VW Golf fuel pump body and Merc's shaft, camplate etc.
There is not much information about VE pump adjusting exept some threads about increasing fuel etc, but thats for people who have stock setup already.
I would like to know following things and I hope you guys can help me.
1. Timing of the pump. Is it 7 like some people say or is it 15 degrees BTDC? Is it correct to turn pumps sprocket toothless part to 11 o clock?
2. I would like to know purpose of the screw which leads to centrifugal governor and how to adjust it.
3. Full load/maximum fuel screw and throttle lever are basically attached to each other so I need some tips how is the correct way to get these right.
I got the car running few times. Smokes like hell and engine is very unresponsive to throttle.
MB 250D W124 OM602.982 2.9 swap '92 5 SPEED MANUAL
MB E320 CDI W211 '04
The answears u need most pump shop personel can't aswear u... not cause they don't know the answear but they are not used to built one watch out of two.
Question is that any pump after beeing build need calibration, and for that u need a bench tester. After that u need to set some parameters like idle speed and quantity... then max cut out and transfer press, pump time, cold advance... and full thr output just to mention a few.
Then VE is much more easy and user tune able, but sometimes one may miss some small things that may turn the pump useless.
What i can answear u correctly is the start of injection for a IDI should be 22 to 24 btdc, and for DI 5 to 7 btdc. Then i need to confirm dynamic time.
What u did is a feat in itself, now u just need to adjust a few things and u may have your engine working correctly.
FD,
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Hehe, i'm glad u could have the engine running!!!
The answears u need most pump shop personel can't aswear u... not cause they don't know the answear but they are not used to built one watch out of two.
Question is that any pump after beeing build need calibration, and for that u need a bench tester. After that u need to set some parameters like idle speed and quantity... then max cut out and transfer press, pump time, cold advance... and full thr output just to mention a few.
Then VE is much more easy and user tune able, but sometimes one may miss some small things that may turn the pump useless.
What i can answear u correctly is the start of injection for a IDI should be 22 to 24 btdc, and for DI 5 to 7 btdc. Then i need to confirm dynamic time.
What u did is a feat in itself, now u just need to adjust a few things and u may have your engine working correctly.
FD,
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Maximum lever stop is not the same thing as full load in this pump. Full load, or fuel screw or whatever you call is located above electric fuel stop selenoid, that long one counterheld with 14mm nut. BY setting this you will change idle which has to be compensated for either by turning low idle stop screw or when out of range by relocating whole lever on splined shaft teeth back or forth depending on if you increase max fuel or vice versa.
Dynamic advance can be set either on the bench on rolling road with special adaptor in place of advance spring cover.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
You should measure plunger lift with stock EDC pump and then set this same on mech pump. There is special tool with dial gauge for this. Setting VE by eye on some degrees does not work, not precise enough. This value should even be specified by MB.
Maximum lever stop is not the same thing as full load in this pump. Full load, or fuel screw or whatever you call is located above electric fuel stop selenoid, that long one counterheld with 14mm nut. BY setting this you will change idle which has to be compensated for either by turning low idle stop screw or when out of range by relocating whole lever on splined shaft teeth back or forth depending on if you increase max fuel or vice versa.
Dynamic advance can be set either on the bench on rolling road with special adaptor in place of advance spring cover.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
Check the Cummins/VW sites. Lots of info. I would start with a body from a rover or cummins pump. They have larger shafts.
http://www.landroverweb.com/Pdf-files/Tu..._Rev_2.pdf
Check the Cummins/VW sites. Lots of info. I would start with a body from a rover or cummins pump. They have larger shafts.
MB 250D W124 OM602.982 2.9 swap '92 5 SPEED MANUAL
MB E320 CDI W211 '04
Now I'm at this point where I don't know what to do anymore. Car just won't start, only smoke comes from exhaust telling me that some sort of burning is happening in cylinders. Pump timing should be fine, put the pump in just like Autodata told me. I got this car running only 2 times and both times I used starting aid fluid and eventually car kept running. I understand that pump needs a proffesional hand to run just right put even if there is a random adjustments done car should start or atleast pop some cylinders.
MB 250D W124 OM602.982 2.9 swap '92 5 SPEED MANUAL
MB E320 CDI W211 '04
I already mentioned that job u did is somehow a feat, without the bench ...
Lets start for something simple... does the pump inject all 5 cyl? Cause the low press pump must provide some positive pressure to plunguer , otherwise it will not inject just spit a litle and that is not enought for DI. Oposite to IDI.
Hook an injector in the 5 outputs and check that out at crank speed it must atomise. From that u got to check low idle governor... and after timming but setting timing without having idle or one without the other is tricky but can be done... in case of dought advance... start by 10btdc...
Its tricky but it can be done...
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
Sorry to post my opinion...
I already mentioned that job u did is somehow a feat, without the bench ...
Lets start for something simple... does the pump inject all 5 cyl? Cause the low press pump must provide some positive pressure to plunguer , otherwise it will not inject just spit a litle and that is not enought for DI. Oposite to IDI.
Hook an injector in the 5 outputs and check that out at crank speed it must atomise. From that u got to check low idle governor... and after timming but setting timing without having idle or one without the other is tricky but can be done... in case of dought advance... start by 10btdc...
Its tricky but it can be done...
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
Actually yesterday I pulled 1st cyl injector off, cranked the engine and I saw that injector worked fine to me. Tomorrow I will try few things and if there is no progression I will pull the pump off and find someone who has knowledge and a testbench.
MB 250D W124 OM602.982 2.9 swap '92 5 SPEED MANUAL
MB E320 CDI W211 '04
Forum is made for other people opinions.
Actually yesterday I pulled 1st cyl injector off, cranked the engine and I saw that injector worked fine to me. Tomorrow I will try few things and if there is no progression I will pull the pump off and find someone who has knowledge and a testbench.
MB 250D W124 OM602.982 2.9 swap '92 5 SPEED MANUAL
MB E320 CDI W211 '04
Today I thought I have one more thing to check before taking my pump somewhere proffesionals can give their opinion. I actually put camplate and mainshaft 180 degrees wrong. Forgot to check if mainshafts keyhole and camplates pin are aligned. No wonder my car won't start. Right now putting it back together and we'll see if this bastard fires up or not.
UPDATE: Went to garage, put everything together, put the pump in, bleed 1st and 2nd injector, turned the ignition and car fired up.
Thank you for your time and thoughts!
MB 250D W124 OM602.982 2.9 swap '92 5 SPEED MANUAL
MB E320 CDI W211 '04
I'm so ashamed right now, VE pump is so new to me and I made a rookiest mistake ever.
Today I thought I have one more thing to check before taking my pump somewhere proffesionals can give their opinion. I actually put camplate and mainshaft 180 degrees wrong. Forgot to check if mainshafts keyhole and camplates pin are aligned. No wonder my car won't start. Right now putting it back together and we'll see if this bastard fires up or not.
UPDATE: Went to garage, put everything together, put the pump in, bleed 1st and 2nd injector, turned the ignition and car fired up.
Thank you for your time and thoughts!
MB 250D W124 OM602.982 2.9 swap '92 5 SPEED MANUAL
MB E320 CDI W211 '04
I put one with a 12mm head on my 4.318 perkins and they will put out quite a bit of fuel for a rotary pump! Way more than the pathetic 5.5mm MW
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I always thought of doing a Bosch VE onto a 616.
I put one with a 12mm head on my 4.318 perkins and they will put out quite a bit of fuel for a rotary pump! Way more than the pathetic 5.5mm MW
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
MB 250D W124 OM602.982 2.9 swap '92 5 SPEED MANUAL
MB E320 CDI W211 '04
Something does not feel right. I have turned the fuel increase screw all the way to the point when rpm's start to increase on it's own. Still does not feel like 2.9 300nm to me. So what can I do? If I change the "pumphead" with a turbodiesel engine one, does it help? Just seems that the 1.6 Golf pumphead does not suit for 2.9 R5, decreases fuel too quickly. I already shimmed covernor and it helped a little. Rest of the pump should be fine because all the lower end pump internals are from Merc's VE pump. Is there some mods I can do or I just need a new pumphead?
MB 250D W124 OM602.982 2.9 swap '92 5 SPEED MANUAL
MB E320 CDI W211 '04
Don't forguet injection quantity is directly related to plunguer lift... wich is related to the cam...
Wish u luck
FD,
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U need to adjust the kf value and find a super cam plate... and then tune the governor so that it push the injection ring all the way...
Don't forguet injection quantity is directly related to plunguer lift... wich is related to the cam...
Wish u luck
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
I've read on VW forums that the governor does not move the control collar enough for a direct injection engine. Only 1.6 or 1.8mm, the EDC VE pump has 1mm more i think. You need to modify the governor lever for extra stroke. I don't know how to do that because the pics are gone. I think you need to extend the governor lever slightly or move the pivot point upwards
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
There was extensive thread with photos on that and yes that governor spring assy had to be modded. I think we mean the same thread.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
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