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240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
Patrik Persson Offline
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#1
240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
A question about a future porject i have in mind. Been looking to make a drift car out of a w123 (would prefer a w115 but thay are rare in the condition im looking for here in sweden) and i want the engine to be a om617A, now i have found two candidates a 240d manual and a 300td automatic both w123. Now my question is what i cheapest?, swap the 240d to a 300td and use the manual, flywheel and shorten the driveshaft or do a manual conversion on the w123 with the 300td in it?
07-12-2017, 09:30 AM
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Simpler=Better Offline
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#2
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
the 240D chassis is lighter than the 300TD chassis-I'd pick that one, and maybe swap the wagon differential if it's got a taller set of rear gears.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan Wrote:I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
07-12-2017, 12:16 PM
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Patrik Persson Offline
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#3
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
Both are sedans. Is there still a weight differens? And the 240d was a 220d.
07-12-2017, 02:25 PM
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NZScott Offline
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#4
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
A 300TD is a wagon...you mean 300D turbo (sedans weren't sold factory as turbo in Europe btw, so it'd be a swap or something)

So you're basically asking is it easier to swap an engine or to swap a gearbox....you're gonna have to pull both engines and gearboxes out anyway. Use the manual chassis if its the better nick body, saves you swapping pedals and crap, seems you're aware of the driveshaft issue

1978 300D, 373,000km
OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (water injectio
n+W/A intercooler to come)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1984 240TD>300TD (drivetrain swapped into '78) since sold
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D 145,000km (DD while '78 has work done)


Dream build:
1984/85 W123, twincharged 617.952 - M90/112/122 feeding HE351VE or similar, 7.5mm 160cc IP, 716.6 6 speed, 3.27 LSD



07-13-2017, 05:18 AM
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Patrik Persson Offline
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#5
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
Ah right, i didn't know that. Thanks for the clear up NZScott
Im asking what is cheapest, to swap the 240d (om616) with a manual for a om617A or do a manual conversion on the car with om617A automatic?
07-13-2017, 08:25 AM
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Simpler=Better Offline
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#6
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
Cheapest would be to swap the already assembled engine, but you're going to miss that 5th cylinder badly.

I'd go all the way and attach the manual box to the 617 (I'm sloooowly doing this myself)
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan Wrote:I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
07-13-2017, 10:25 AM
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Patrik Persson Offline
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#7
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
So it's cheaper to put a om617A in the 240d manual than do a manual conversion on the 300d with the om617A auto.
Thank you
07-13-2017, 10:11 PM
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NZScott Offline
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#8
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
Well you have just about all the bits bar a correct driveshaft so there's no cost difference really, just time and effort (assuming you're doing it all yourself)

Just bear in mind the stock clutch won't hold up for long if at all for drifting and the flywheel on the OM616 can't be modified to take a larger diameter clutch

1978 300D, 373,000km
OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (water injectio
n+W/A intercooler to come)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1984 240TD>300TD (drivetrain swapped into '78) since sold
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D 145,000km (DD while '78 has work done)


Dream build:
1984/85 W123, twincharged 617.952 - M90/112/122 feeding HE351VE or similar, 7.5mm 160cc IP, 716.6 6 speed, 3.27 LSD



07-13-2017, 10:27 PM
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Patrik Persson Offline
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#9
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
I didn't even consider that the flywheel would be to small, figured the clutch wouldn't hold. Do i have to have a custom flywheel made? And what transmission could i use for a reasonable price?
07-14-2017, 02:31 AM
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Simpler=Better Offline
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#10
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
The 240D transmission is pretty much the only bolt up manual that's readily available.

If you get the next generation transmission (with the starter on the wrong side) the locating pins still match-the bell can be redrilled & welded using the intermediate plate as a guide. It takes some work but it's doable

We also have drawings in the engine sticky for OM617->Chevrolet, although those transmissions are fat and won't fit under the car easily.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan Wrote:I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
07-14-2017, 09:45 AM
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Patrik Persson Offline
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#11
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
we'll see what i end up doing, if im even using a om617A even. Would be cool since i have never seen one in a drift car, especially in a w115 Big Grin
I thank you for your time and knowledge Smile
07-14-2017, 11:33 AM
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NZScott Offline
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#12
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
Do you have the all aluminium Getrag 4 speed or the older iron case one? The latter I don't know the strength of but must be pretty strong as was used in vans etc, I have a 5 speed version and hope I don't break it with my souped up engine

1978 300D, 373,000km
OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (water injectio
n+W/A intercooler to come)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1984 240TD>300TD (drivetrain swapped into '78) since sold
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D 145,000km (DD while '78 has work done)


Dream build:
1984/85 W123, twincharged 617.952 - M90/112/122 feeding HE351VE or similar, 7.5mm 160cc IP, 716.6 6 speed, 3.27 LSD



07-14-2017, 08:12 PM
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Patrik Persson Offline
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#13
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
it is the aluminium one, but isen't there a 5-speed manual for the om617A?
07-16-2017, 05:01 AM
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NZScott Offline
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#14
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
Well there are ones that will bolt up but good luck finding one is all I can say. I have a different type of 5 speed and it's just as rare, could be one of a handful in my country. Besides, people here quite often say they blew 3rd gear on the Getrag 5 speeds. I don't know if the 4 speed has the same issue...

1978 300D, 373,000km
OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (water injectio
n+W/A intercooler to come)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1984 240TD>300TD (drivetrain swapped into '78) since sold
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D 145,000km (DD while '78 has work done)


Dream build:
1984/85 W123, twincharged 617.952 - M90/112/122 feeding HE351VE or similar, 7.5mm 160cc IP, 716.6 6 speed, 3.27 LSD



07-17-2017, 02:21 AM
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Simpler=Better Offline
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#15
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
GM transmissions can be adapted to the 617 engine, the drawings are in the sticky. You need:

Adapter plate (see drawing-it's lacking a starter hole but you can figure that location out easily enough)
Small old "SBC (Small Block Chevy V8) bell housing(these are everywhere)
Any Muncie or new process transmission (they're heavy and indestructible) or a NV#### modern transmission
Modern chevy v8 flywheel (the one used on engine with a 1 piece rear main)-this can be redrilled for the 617 crank
Chevy pressure plate/clutch disk/etc.

It takes some machining but those flywheels/tramissions hold 300+HP on the street every day. US pickups beat them around and rarely fail.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan Wrote:I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
07-17-2017, 08:36 PM
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Patrik Persson Offline
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Location: Sweden
#16
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
Looks like i need to make a shoping list Big Grin
Found this link after a quick google, http://www.mercedesdiesel4x4.com/category_s/1833.htm, do you know if they are still in production/purchasable?
Do i need a diffrent driveshaft and rearend?
If it's a tight fit in the w123 then it will be impossible to fit it under a w115, ah well it would've been a shame really to ruin a w115.
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2017, 01:22 PM by Patrik Persson.)
07-18-2017, 08:12 AM
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Patrik Persson Offline
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#17
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
Decided to scrap the om617A plans, going to put in a om603 turbo instead. If i can find one.
Could make things a lot easier and get a w124. Really like them
(This post was last modified: 07-23-2017, 08:35 AM by Patrik Persson.)
07-23-2017, 08:30 AM
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Simpler=Better Offline
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#18
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
You could always stuff the 603 into a w115 Smile. Just cut the floor until it fits.

Those old Chevy transmission are fat and short. Great for a Jeep, awful to fit under a car.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan Wrote:I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
07-24-2017, 02:52 PM
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NZScott Offline
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Posts: 303
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Location: New Zealand
#19
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
A nice 6 speed would go onto a 603, like a 716.654 or something, just needs custom flywheel/clutch

1978 300D, 373,000km
OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (water injectio
n+W/A intercooler to come)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1984 240TD>300TD (drivetrain swapped into '78) since sold
1988 Toyota Corona 2.0D 145,000km (DD while '78 has work done)


Dream build:
1984/85 W123, twincharged 617.952 - M90/112/122 feeding HE351VE or similar, 7.5mm 160cc IP, 716.6 6 speed, 3.27 LSD



07-25-2017, 02:10 AM
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Patrik Persson Offline
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#20
RE: 240d manual to om617A or om617A auto to manual?
Simpler=Better, yes i have seen a w115 with a 603. Heard it was a very tight fit, would be nice to try Smile

NZScott, ye it's going to be a lot easier to find parts, since i live in southern sweden i can just take the ferry over to germany and buy the engine, the car even if i don't find one here, contact f-tune for the clutch, flywheel and transmission. Think i'll go with a ZF. Lastly dieselmeken for the pump.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2017, 07:51 AM by Patrik Persson.)
07-25-2017, 07:19 AM
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