w210 om606 potential race car
w210 om606 potential race car
We want to go faster. This girl has about 10 races on her and we're finally good enough drivers that speed is limiting us. We sit about 3500lbs race weight and have a bone stock engine. We've been discussing potential engine swaps into Planet Express and no matter what we do we're looking in the three digit price range. The thing is, we can get a w210 for the same price and at that point do we want to deal with the swap or start pre-swapped and with a more modern, lighter chassis that can fit bigger wheels/tires. The choice was easy. So we're talking about doing a w210 e300 Turbodiesel racecar. I know nothing about the om606 having spent the last 3.5 years working on an om617 and putting all my effort into it.
Will we have any trouble running the car stock? We'd talked about doing a mech pump for simplicity but unless we go custom we'd be down on power, yes?
Are the stock transmissions in these strong like the one in our w116? I would assume it's got a big factory trans cooler like our w116 and if it didn't we'd be adding one before racing.
How would the kill switch work? It was easy on the mech pump, using a normally open solenoid. Would killing the power to a certain wire shut down the engine? Which one?
If anybody sees any other flaws in our plan, please let me know.
I'm on the team Idle Clatter Racing. We're the idiots who campaign this lovely w116.120 in The 24 Hours of Lemons
We want to go faster. This girl has about 10 races on her and we're finally good enough drivers that speed is limiting us. We sit about 3500lbs race weight and have a bone stock engine. We've been discussing potential engine swaps into Planet Express and no matter what we do we're looking in the three digit price range. The thing is, we can get a w210 for the same price and at that point do we want to deal with the swap or start pre-swapped and with a more modern, lighter chassis that can fit bigger wheels/tires. The choice was easy. So we're talking about doing a w210 e300 Turbodiesel racecar. I know nothing about the om606 having spent the last 3.5 years working on an om617 and putting all my effort into it.
Will we have any trouble running the car stock? We'd talked about doing a mech pump for simplicity but unless we go custom we'd be down on power, yes?
Are the stock transmissions in these strong like the one in our w116? I would assume it's got a big factory trans cooler like our w116 and if it didn't we'd be adding one before racing.
How would the kill switch work? It was easy on the mech pump, using a normally open solenoid. Would killing the power to a certain wire shut down the engine? Which one?
If anybody sees any other flaws in our plan, please let me know.
I have no idea what that means, especially without context
He probably meant ground wire. Cutting power to the ECU will shut off the engine. In my opinion a W210 will be a better racecar than a W116, the handling is much better. It is also more aerodynamic. You can use the electronic pump and tune it for more power. Also you must use the electronic pump if you want the stock transmission controler to work. If you mechanical you'll need a standalone trans controller ($$$)
i make standalone ecus all the time using the stock ecu and a custom map so its very possible and easily done.
these engine are easy to swap and have running with minimal sensors needed also.
if you cut the signal from the crank sensor the engine will shut off or cut power to ecu it will shut off.
i make standalone ecus all the time using the stock ecu and a custom map so its very possible and easily done.
these engine are easy to swap and have running with minimal sensors needed also.
is also comonly refered as earth wire .... without it the pump electroactuator comes to of position right away , that what u want "The kill switch " shutting off everything.
The Brown wire is shared with all the other ecu items some being solenoids, i would not suggest just disconnecting this each time to shut off, the fuel pump itself is also a solenoid so even though there are circuits to limit back emf removing ground will not help this
and may damage the ecu internally.
i would suggest cutting power to pin 47 if i was to be specific there is a diagram on another post, this is the power wire the ignition triggers from the switch, the others powers are triggered from relays and these can also be disconnected
shutting off everything.
The Brown wire is shared with all the other ecu items some being solenoids, i would not suggest just disconnecting this each time to shut off, the fuel pump itself is also a solenoid so even though there are circuits to limit back emf removing ground will not help this
and may damage the ecu internally.
I understand what he wants, but my recommendation is not to use GND or brown wires to shutdown the engine as it will damage the ecu, for reasons i have explained.
Or you can kill all +12v from the battery as this is how its usually done, dont use gnd wires to cut power.
there are 3 +12v wires to the ecu, im suggesting using pin 47 as your kill switch.
I understand what he wants, but my recommendation is not to use GND or brown wires to shutdown the engine as it will damage the ecu, for reasons i have explained.
Or you can kill all +12v from the battery as this is how its usually done, dont use gnd wires to cut power.
what kind of damage can happen if u cut gwd to the rack solenoid? maybe u right but i can´t see which damage can happen !!!
besides maybe one have to reinitiate the system to start again... apart from that i can´t see where is the problem.
as u said there are many ways to conect the kill switch , but cutting power to the control system wont go throug the racing inspection...
if i understood right ...
BTW , hws is the min voltage issue?
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
mr seanit ,
what kind of damage can happen if u cut gwd to the rack solenoid? maybe u right but i can´t see which damage can happen !!!
besides maybe one have to reinitiate the system to start again... apart from that i can´t see where is the problem.
as u said there are many ways to conect the kill switch , but cutting power to the control system wont go throug the racing inspection...
if i understood right ...
BTW , hws is the min voltage issue?
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
If you cut the power from the battery +v like usually done, the spike in voltage travels back through gnd to the battery and the battery can handle this momentary spike where smd electronics are susceptible to these. So for the sack of saving any of the electronic systems being used from the w210 put the kill switch between the battery +v.
Rack voltage tests will be pursued after the new year when i have time to test it out, i cant imagine it will gain 4-5mm but maybe an extra 1-2mm if it works.
my point is when a solenoid is energised and you cut the power usually a diode limits emf back to the ecu as the solenoid moves back to its original position it creates voltage and not 12 or 30v like a spike of 100v, if you remove the gnd wire while solenoids de-energise you only allow this spike to reverse back through all the circuits circuits .
If you cut the power from the battery +v like usually done, the spike in voltage travels back through gnd to the battery and the battery can handle this momentary spike where smd electronics are susceptible to these. So for the sack of saving any of the electronic systems being used from the w210 put the kill switch between the battery +v.
Rack voltage tests will be pursued after the new year when i have time to test it out, i cant imagine it will gain 4-5mm but maybe an extra 1-2mm if it works.
The transmission is not great. It's just a bit stupid. Maybe one day we can convert it to a 722.3 we've got in a w124 300d.
The only issue the car has is a P0243 fault code. I've seen that this is often a boost sensor code. Is there a bypass for this or do we need to put a new sensor on it?
We bought the car. It's pretty great. The 606 is leaps and bounds above the 617. Smoother, more power, quieter. Also the w210 chassis feels great around corners.
The transmission is not great. It's just a bit stupid. Maybe one day we can convert it to a 722.3 we've got in a w124 300d.
The only issue the car has is a P0243 fault code. I've seen that this is often a boost sensor code. Is there a bypass for this or do we need to put a new sensor on it?
Either way you are in limp mode and that, in turn, causes the transmission to shift very weird. Fix the code first and then see how the transmission works. Personally, I love the 722.6 behind an OM606A.
That code would indicate that the ECU doesn't think that the wastegate is working. Which could mean that it thinks it is always open or always closed. The variable vacuum valves are reasonably reliable, perhaps a vacuum hose has fallen off?
Either way you are in limp mode and that, in turn, causes the transmission to shift very weird. Fix the code first and then see how the transmission works. Personally, I love the 722.6 behind an OM606A.
What's weird is that we can reset the code and the car will drive great for a little while and then throw the code again.
There is a filter on the fresh air line that goes into the variable vacuum valve. Check that the filter isn't plugged up. If the valve doesn't get enough air through that line then modulating boost won't work right. Also you could swap the two variable vacuum valves (turbo and EGR) to see if the problem moves to the EGR.
Today we removed the stereo and airbag wiring from the car. After removing the wires the car won't start. The key clicks and the dash lights up but the glow plug light doesn't light and the starter won't engage. I'm worried we messed with something else while removing those wire bundles. I'm not sure where to begin my search though. Any help would be huge.
We've hit another snag with the racecar.
Today we removed the stereo and airbag wiring from the car. After removing the wires the car won't start. The key clicks and the dash lights up but the glow plug light doesn't light and the starter won't engage. I'm worried we messed with something else while removing those wire bundles. I'm not sure where to begin my search though. Any help would be huge.
Could the issue be related to the immobilizer system? I've read it can get out of sync.
I realized we also removed the rear seat vacuum pump, just in case that has anything to do with it?
i´m not too familiar with that thing "multiplex data link" called "CAN2" but basically it is assembled in such a way u can´t remove items from the system specially safety related hardware like "air bag" .
Reason is the system starts to ask the multiple controllers in wich state they are, (operative or not, BIT green) when the system got no answear, blocks. When system got failure answear warns. When system got "no go" answear, it does not operate.
Problem is that MB made it inside the ECU, they could had a "Vehicle Control Unit" instead and in that case the engine could work irespective of other hardware condition.
If it helps, u have to delete those features inside the ECU so that the system can operate the engine with missing parts, something i heard is not easy to do.... in my planet we are still dealing with mech stuff, after we move to CDI.
Why dont u hook a DSL1 computer with a EDC pump, and get ridd of all that "multiplex data link" after all is a race car so i can´t see the use off klimatronic A/C , or rear electric window.....
or even a mech pump, assuming u wont use the auto trans....
Good luck.
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
hehe,
i´m not too familiar with that thing "multiplex data link" called "CAN2" but basically it is assembled in such a way u can´t remove items from the system specially safety related hardware like "air bag" .
Reason is the system starts to ask the multiple controllers in wich state they are, (operative or not, BIT green) when the system got no answear, blocks. When system got failure answear warns. When system got "no go" answear, it does not operate.
Problem is that MB made it inside the ECU, they could had a "Vehicle Control Unit" instead and in that case the engine could work irespective of other hardware condition.
If it helps, u have to delete those features inside the ECU so that the system can operate the engine with missing parts, something i heard is not easy to do.... in my planet we are still dealing with mech stuff, after we move to CDI.
Why dont u hook a DSL1 computer with a EDC pump, and get ridd of all that "multiplex data link" after all is a race car so i can´t see the use off klimatronic A/C , or rear electric window.....
or even a mech pump, assuming u wont use the auto trans....
Good luck.
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
The reason not to go with a different computer/pump is cost. We're a pretty cheap bunch of guys and this car is built for a series called 24 Hours of Lemons where the car isn't supposed to cost more than $500. On top of that the other 4 team members don't know we broke the car yesterday so the two of us who were working on it have to get it fixed.
The airbags were removed a while back and the car ran fine. All I did yesterday was pull the wires for the airbag system. I don't think that's the issue.
The reason not to go with a different computer/pump is cost. We're a pretty cheap bunch of guys and this car is built for a series called 24 Hours of Lemons where the car isn't supposed to cost more than $500. On top of that the other 4 team members don't know we broke the car yesterday so the two of us who were working on it have to get it fixed.
We traced the wires we'd cut and eventually plugged in the rear window motors. The glow plugs came on and the car fired up. WTF mercedes...
It was the rear window motor!
We traced the wires we'd cut and eventually plugged in the rear window motors. The glow plugs came on and the car fired up. WTF mercedes...
Baldur Gislason
Hilarious. Likely some of the wires you cut left the CAN bus unterminated. A CAN bus needs to have two 120 ohm resistors placed across it, placed on opposing ends of the bus. If you cut the wires leading to one of these resistors the bus will likely stop working.
Baldur Gislason
1 Guest(s)
1 Guest(s)