617a factory EGT
617a factory EGT
Does anyone know what the factory EGTs for the OM617a (turbo) engines were?
As i proceed with some mods, i m curious to know what Mercedes thought was acceptable.
bullonezero
12-25-2016, 05:48 PM #1Hello Folks,
Does anyone know what the factory EGTs for the OM617a (turbo) engines were?
As i proceed with some mods, i m curious to know what Mercedes thought was acceptable.
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
1250 F for a few seconds, to quote the 1978(?) SAE paper MB did (of course in normal use they shouldn't be that high)
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
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![[Image: Screenshot%20from%202016-12-25%20214228_zpsgfocaa6y.png]](http://i346.photobucket.com/albums/p435/R-3350/Screenshot%20from%202016-12-25%20214228_zpsgfocaa6y.png)
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the maximum recommended sustained temp on the turbine inlet mentioned in the SAE paper is 800*C (1472*F). i might be hesitant to run that and instead recommend the standard rule of thumb which is 1250*F continuous and 1450*F for up to 10 seconds.
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'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I've seen 1400 on my setup before, no problem. But like most said, not longer than a couple seconds. Mostly for the fact that we don't have a straight enough road or long enough hill for me to pull that hard that long.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Now, what would max continuous EGT be for my NA with no oil nozzles
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Aha, well I was close
Now, what would max continuous EGT be for my NA with no oil nozzles
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
My turbo would hit 1100*F on long hills (2056V turbo, straight pipe exhaust)
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
12-26-2016, 09:41 AM #6THat's tough, rule of thumb I'd say keep it under 1000*F?
My turbo would hit 1100*F on long hills (2056V turbo, straight pipe exhaust)
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
That was about my guess too. I should really install that EGT gauge of mine
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
I think a lot of people worry too much about egts, it's engines with whacked out timing and messed up injectors (in direct injection at least) that Burn pistons.
Just my .02 cents
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
1000F is pretty low. Most of our older Ag equipment are non-oil squirter engines. Including both of our pulling tractors which have both seen 1700F+. I think it's more about duration than temp. A friend of mine with a international 466 (non oiler engine) hit 1900F peak going down the track and didn't melt pistons. But the duration was very short.
I think a lot of people worry too much about egts, it's engines with whacked out timing and messed up injectors (in direct injection at least) that Burn pistons.
Just my .02 cents
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
Veeeery interesting, thanks. IDI with flat top pistons supposedly can get away with high EGT than DI, but then MB pistons have a little dish for the prechamber tip so...
1978 300D, 373,000km... OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (project car, 7 years off the road and counting ;/)
1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km
1981 240D 498,000
1975 HJ45 ???,000
2001 2.8TD Rodeo 4x2 - 456,000 - DD
I´ve run my 605 konstantly at 800ºC and the only thing that melted was the turbo vanes and turbine.... DI´s have issues with high EGT , but only if injector spray patern is not good.... happens when only one or two holes clogg and the others start to cut away the piston like a blow torch....
Squirts is another mith , at least in European models i don´t see a "squirtless" diesel since the 616 N/A . Or tractor engines like was mentioned above....
sorry to highjack....
FD,
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U Folks ,
I´ve run my 605 konstantly at 800ºC and the only thing that melted was the turbo vanes and turbine.... DI´s have issues with high EGT , but only if injector spray patern is not good.... happens when only one or two holes clogg and the others start to cut away the piston like a blow torch....
Squirts is another mith , at least in European models i don´t see a "squirtless" diesel since the 616 N/A . Or tractor engines like was mentioned above....
sorry to highjack....
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
below facing the grownd almost all collectors i´ve seen have a flat spot where u can drill and insert the probe in the stream, without interference with the other hardware....
right aside i use the EGP conection...
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
It has to be pre turbo, there is no point in measuring post turbo.
below facing the grownd almost all collectors i´ve seen have a flat spot where u can drill and insert the probe in the stream, without interference with the other hardware....
right aside i use the EGP conection...
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
(12-26-2016, 12:26 AM)NZScott Aha, well I was close
Now, what would max continuous EGT be for my NA with no oil nozzles
My 77 N/A with a HY35 has been over 1000 many times. Today on a canyon run I hit 1300 a few times at 15psi, uphill flat out in 3rd gear. Been running it boosted since last spring, nothing has broken yet
'77 300D, 617.912, HY35 15psi, 3" side pipe, maxed out stock MW pump (Sold, now converted into a ute)
'87 300TD, 603.960, questionable mods from the PO including a ghetto 3" straight pipe
(12-26-2016, 12:26 AM)NZScott Aha, well I was close
Now, what would max continuous EGT be for my NA with no oil nozzles
My 77 N/A with a HY35 has been over 1000 many times. Today on a canyon run I hit 1300 a few times at 15psi, uphill flat out in 3rd gear. Been running it boosted since last spring, nothing has broken yet
'77 300D, 617.912, HY35 15psi, 3" side pipe, maxed out stock MW pump (Sold, now converted into a ute)
'87 300TD, 603.960, questionable mods from the PO including a ghetto 3" straight pipe
Metal doesn't melt until almost 2200*F so why are we so worried? Now days if you ask most diesel owners what high egt's are they'll answer 800*F but why is this? I believe this to be the surge in sales specspecifically DI engines. Most people don't realize diesels from the eighties and nineties such as Volkswagen turbo IDI routinely run 1400-1500F egt's every day in factory form. The difference is in tje combustion chamber design. The heads of newer DI engines are mostly flat with most of the combustion occurring in the concaved piston. If the DI piston gets too hot it will start to expand and soon weld itsitself to the cylinder wall at the very least score the bore, this happens at about 900-1200*F depending on desidesign. With IDI engines the combustion chamber is mostlmostly in the head, heads have alot of mass and can ababsorb alot of heat. Iron IDI heads can absorb lots of heat and thermal expansion is relatively the same as the iron block so gasket failfailure is less likely. IDI pistopistons are mostly flat and absorb much less heat than the DI pistons and do not expand as much. This is why piston and ring clearance is greater on DI engines. 1200F is nothing for an IDI engine. Here's a good article about EGTs
http://www.trucktrend.com/cool-trucks/05...0-cummins/
My 2 cents.
Metal doesn't melt until almost 2200*F so why are we so worried? Now days if you ask most diesel owners what high egt's are they'll answer 800*F but why is this? I believe this to be the surge in sales specspecifically DI engines. Most people don't realize diesels from the eighties and nineties such as Volkswagen turbo IDI routinely run 1400-1500F egt's every day in factory form. The difference is in tje combustion chamber design. The heads of newer DI engines are mostly flat with most of the combustion occurring in the concaved piston. If the DI piston gets too hot it will start to expand and soon weld itsitself to the cylinder wall at the very least score the bore, this happens at about 900-1200*F depending on desidesign. With IDI engines the combustion chamber is mostlmostly in the head, heads have alot of mass and can ababsorb alot of heat. Iron IDI heads can absorb lots of heat and thermal expansion is relatively the same as the iron block so gasket failfailure is less likely. IDI pistopistons are mostly flat and absorb much less heat than the DI pistons and do not expand as much. This is why piston and ring clearance is greater on DI engines. 1200F is nothing for an IDI engine. Here's a good article about EGTs
http://www.trucktrend.com/cool-trucks/05...0-cummins/
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I agree with you evenglass, besides that a DI engine will melt a piston at 1200. My DI engine runs 1700 and didn't melt the piston to the cylinder wall. And our other Perkins ran at 1800 for 20 years.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(01-02-2017, 08:34 PM)MFSuper90 I agree with you evenglass, besides that a DI engine will melt a piston at 1200. My DI engine runs 1700 and didn't melt the piston to the cylinder wall. And our other Perkins ran at 1800 for 20 years.I think you meant "IDI" in the second part. Or maybe the older low pressure DI engines.
(01-02-2017, 08:34 PM)MFSuper90 I agree with you evenglass, besides that a DI engine will melt a piston at 1200. My DI engine runs 1700 and didn't melt the piston to the cylinder wall. And our other Perkins ran at 1800 for 20 years.I think you meant "IDI" in the second part. Or maybe the older low pressure DI engines.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Nope. Perkins 4.318, 6.354, and IH dt466 that have all seen 1700+F. All direct injection engines
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Ran out of revs – 174mph max so a 1:2:65 is going in the rear this year. What I did notice is that as the revs go over 5200 the power and EGT drop off as the fuelling is being pulled back as the governor cuts in. You can see she is running clean as a whistle as she passes the timing equipment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5mg3_EjdbA
W124 om606 HX40 finished and it's a beauty 450bhp/456ft-lbs
maxypriest
01-04-2017, 09:42 AM #21I did a few top speed runs in my W124/OM606/HX40super/8.00mm set up and measured 850C ish EGT post exhaust housing (please don’t shoot me!!! – I did not know the place to put it at the time) and this was with WOT for a good while – vid attached.
Ran out of revs – 174mph max so a 1:2:65 is going in the rear this year. What I did notice is that as the revs go over 5200 the power and EGT drop off as the fuelling is being pulled back as the governor cuts in. You can see she is running clean as a whistle as she passes the timing equipment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5mg3_EjdbA
W124 om606 HX40 finished and it's a beauty 450bhp/456ft-lbs
(01-04-2017, 09:42 AM)maxypriest I did a few top speed runs in my W124/OM606/HX40super/8.00mm set up and measured 850C ish EGT post exhaust housing (please don’t shoot me!!! – I did not know the place to put it at the time) and this was with WOT for a good while – vid attached.
Ran out of revs – 174mph max so a 1:2:65 is going in the rear this year. What I did notice is that as the revs go over 5200 the power and EGT drop off as the fuelling is being pulled back as the governor cuts in. You can see she is running clean as a whistle as she passes the timing equipment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5mg3_EjdbA
850C post turbo is likely to be atleast 950 pre turbo, could be over 1000! Good to know an OM606 and an oil cooled turbo can survive such stress. My OM605 with EDC and GT2871 turbo can see 850 pre turbo on a hill at full throttle. Normal daily driving and the hottest it gets is 550- 600
charlysays
01-11-2017, 09:47 AM #22(01-04-2017, 09:42 AM)maxypriest I did a few top speed runs in my W124/OM606/HX40super/8.00mm set up and measured 850C ish EGT post exhaust housing (please don’t shoot me!!! – I did not know the place to put it at the time) and this was with WOT for a good while – vid attached.
Ran out of revs – 174mph max so a 1:2:65 is going in the rear this year. What I did notice is that as the revs go over 5200 the power and EGT drop off as the fuelling is being pulled back as the governor cuts in. You can see she is running clean as a whistle as she passes the timing equipment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5mg3_EjdbA
850C post turbo is likely to be atleast 950 pre turbo, could be over 1000! Good to know an OM606 and an oil cooled turbo can survive such stress. My OM605 with EDC and GT2871 turbo can see 850 pre turbo on a hill at full throttle. Normal daily driving and the hottest it gets is 550- 600
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