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Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
starynovy Offline
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#51
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
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Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2018, 09:21 AM by starynovy.)
01-15-2018, 09:21 AM
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Turbo Offline
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#52
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
Nice find!
well that is interesting, do you know what they cost?
little pitty they "just" go to 200 bars, I would like to go to 220bars
01-15-2018, 03:10 PM
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starynovy Offline
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#53
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
Around 50€. These come on new TDIs, found it on Skoda Octavia mk.3 TDI. I dont think you will see even 200bar. Cylinder pressure is directly tied to engine torque and even strong DI 6cyl. diesels which make a lot of it are made to withstand around 230 bar max. So if you do not aim upwards 700Nm..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
01-15-2018, 05:09 PM
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Turbo Offline
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#54
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
If I could find them for 50euro I will buy some...
most sertanly buy them, what is the thread for mercedes glow plugs in 0m613/om648?

Newer Mercedes om642ls is on the 200 bar region like the bmw 550/750d, if the new 400ps BMW is higher I have no information about, what the new engines with steel pistons have I do not know ether, but it would be interesting to now, but later engines I have no feeling that they are over engineered like 0m606/om613/om648.

I am thinking about 220bar with water injection since it brings peak combustion pressure down a bi,t but have at this moment no info about how much water is needed, that is why this is so interested, really good to get some feedback when playing around.

where you get that they should withstand 230 bar? om613 is original 145bar, if I am not wrong om648 is at 155bar, and how much they can take I do not know yet, and no steel piston from Mercedes will fit since bore is different
01-16-2018, 03:59 PM
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starynovy Offline
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#55
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
That pressure was stated for then new N57 engines family from bmw, obviously bi and tri turbo ones.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
01-17-2018, 10:32 AM
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Turbo Offline
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#56
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
Well acording to
https://drive-my.com/en/tech/item/2172-n...amily.html
they where limited to 200bar peak combustion pressre only on the N57s tri turbo vertion

regarding the B57S quad turbo
https://blog.caranddriver.com/bmw-has-co...el-engine/
it state 3046psi about 210 bars combustion pressure
or read
https://newatlas.com/bmw-quad-turbo-750d/43355/

so please where did you get the 230bars figure from?

bmw is doing a new series where
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-c...ngine-line
where the most powerful get 2700 injection pressure, can not find maximum combustion pressure there
01-17-2018, 03:42 PM
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starynovy Offline
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#57
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
Well did not remember it exactly read it like 3 years ago, so 210Bar it is. Still far cry from shitty 160 MBz can handle.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ex: 525tds 130kW, C250TD 160kW, E320CDI 200kW, ML400CDI 230kW, A6 R5TDI 130kW
Now: Q7 V8TDI 240kW, 320d 150kW, 335d 210kW
01-18-2018, 05:11 AM
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Turbo Offline
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#58
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
ok thank for the clarification
you mean that mercedes om613/om648 can not take more then 160bar peak combustion pressure? or what do you mean with -"Still far cry from shitty 160 MBz can handle." is piston the weak part or what is your experiance, can you please tell?

If that would be the case it would be f###n "%¤&%%&%¤# since I now have really god injectors for upcoming tuning that i put some years in finding and they where even better then I wished for, turbo and pump and rail gearbox suspension etc, just need to study this ridiculous edc15c6/edc16c2 how it works and that is really not my cup of tee...
01-18-2018, 06:55 AM
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Evgeniy1987 Offline
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#59
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
[Image: c8ee7cdb-fc20-47bb-8ebe-df11b7283b5d.jpg]

it is not dead.. I just need 30 hours a day for the other stuff...
01-24-2018, 05:51 AM
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Turbo Offline
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#60
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
wow
so what are we seeing here Smile
01-25-2018, 01:02 AM
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Evgeniy1987 Offline
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#61
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
Well, to the left is an EDC pump ( Big Grin ) assembled by Barrote a while ago (thanks again!)

I had a worn out timing device that i bought for 2€ on ebay, I disassembled it and had it milled down to a cilinder of 25mm outer diameter. So 25mm on the outside, splines for the pump shaft on the inside. Using a TranTorque (http://www.fennerdrives.com/trantorque/) coupling, I attached the big flange to the pump.

Now, with a special metal coupling, I can attach the pump to the test bench, which contains the same thing as the red one on the right (I took a 2nd one for the foto)

The red thing is a torque (and rpm) measuring shaft. It is very precise. I can read it with the same device I used for the pressure measurement, so it can measure up to 150 kS/s .

So, If I go to 3000 pump-rpm, it does 50 per second. I can have up to 3 kS per revolution. So, over 360 degrees, I will have 3000 measurement points. Which is good, as we need to get nice, precise torque curves.

The outcome of the test will be shown to Harmonic Drive AG, who will help me with choosing the right harmonic drive.
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2018, 03:09 AM by Evgeniy1987.)
01-25-2018, 03:09 AM
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Turbo Offline
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#62
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
what is so interesting with harmonic drive? I must be missing something.
I understand  of it before that you where trying to create a electric controllable timing device?

what do you have that can sample so fast?
I want to get hold of something that can sample fast since I want to measure the pressure in the cylinder during all cycles in the engine.
There are system for this like below but it it is a lot of money even if I really need it for my tuning.
www.tfxengine.com
01-25-2018, 03:19 PM
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Evgeniy1987 Offline
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#63
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
http://www.datatranslation.co.uk/gb/meas...f7509de78b

These are affordable Smile

Oh and by the way: remember, in-cilinder pressure is not the same thing as pre-chamber pressure..
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2018, 05:55 AM by Evgeniy1987.)
01-25-2018, 05:50 PM
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baldur Offline
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#64
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
I want an in line transducer like that for my engine dyno. Do they come rated for 10000RPM and 2000Nm?
Baldur Gislason

01-26-2018, 11:42 AM
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Turbo Offline
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#65
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
(01-25-2018, 05:50 PM)Evgeniy1987 Wrote: http://www.datatranslation.co.uk/gb/meas...f7509de78b

These are affordable Smile

Oh and by the way: remember, in-cilinder pressure is not the same thing as pre-chamber pressure..

what about controllable timing device you where working to! I really need one to my engine to control it better

Yes I know on IDI cylinder pressure is not the same as pre chamber pressure, I got some 0m613/om648 too Wink
I have not yet fingered out how to measure cylinder pressure on the om606 with out weakening of the cylinder head
01-26-2018, 03:35 PM
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Evgeniy1987 Offline
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#66
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
(01-26-2018, 11:42 AM)baldur Wrote: I want an in line transducer like that for my engine dyno. Do they come rated for 10000RPM and 2000Nm?

Baldur, 

The measurement shaft I have at work is up to 500 Nm rated KTR part. ... But KTR can offer much bigger stuff:

https://www.ktr.com/de/produkte/antriebs...esswellen/

https://www.ktr.com/de/produkte/antriebs...taflex-70/

Dataflex 70 would cut it: up to 3000Nm or 5000Nm. Whether it could go up to 10000 RPM - I don't know. I believe, the problem in that case is not the shaft, but the electronica amplifier.

But you probably won't bother building an amplifier that could Tongue
(This post was last modified: 01-28-2018, 10:37 AM by Evgeniy1987.)
01-28-2018, 10:37 AM
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Evgeniy1987 Offline
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#67
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
(01-26-2018, 03:35 PM)Turbo Wrote:
(01-25-2018, 05:50 PM)Evgeniy1987 Wrote: http://www.datatranslation.co.uk/gb/meas...f7509de78b

These are affordable Smile

Oh and by the way: remember, in-cilinder pressure is not the same thing as pre-chamber pressure..

what about controllable timing device you where working to! I really need one to my engine to control it better
...

Everything I put in this topic has to do with that timing device, haha

I am almost done with school... so I was motivating myself by pulling stuff out of the closet..
01-28-2018, 10:57 AM
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Evgeniy1987 Offline
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#68
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
[Image: injectors_holder.jpg]

This way, I will not have to bend the precious fuel lines!

Ah, if someone needs to know: the thread is M22x1.5
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2018, 01:08 PM by Evgeniy1987.)
03-02-2018, 01:08 PM
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SurfRodder Offline
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#69
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
Any update on this one?
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **

S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **

OBK# 62
09-21-2019, 11:49 AM
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atypicalguy Offline
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#70
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
(01-26-2018, 03:35 PM)Turbo Wrote: I have not yet fingered out how to measure cylinder pressure on the om606 with out weakening of the cylinder head

Is it not possible to screw a pressure transducer into the glow plug hole?
11-21-2019, 07:29 PM
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atypicalguy Offline
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#71
RE: Long project: ELITE. ELectronical Injection Timing Enhancement.
(01-26-2018, 03:35 PM)Turbo Wrote: I have not yet fingered out how to measure cylinder pressure on the om606 with out weakening of the cylinder head

Is it not possible to screw a pressure transducer into the glow plug hole?
11-21-2019, 08:17 PM
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