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Expiremental OM617 build
atypicalguy Offline
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#51
RE: Expiremental OM617 build
Great work on your project so far. Sounds like a fun car to drive. I forgot how big your air to water heat exchanger is. Would you mind sharing dimensions? I need to figure out how big mine needs to be. Probably similar to an air to air cooler to get similar heat rejection. I also think most of these systems have inadequate pump flow; I have heard it needs to be quite large to transfer enough heat.
11-19-2017, 12:52 AM
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R-3350 Offline
Dreaming of compounds
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Posts: 164
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Location: Western NC USA
#52
RE: Expiremental OM617 build
the core not counting the end tanks is 11" wide 6" long and 4.5" thick with 3" in and outlet supposedly its rated to 800-1000 cfm flow at up to 100psi. im feeding it through 3/4 npt barb fittings and 7/8 heater core hose to a bosch cobra pump and a 30 row oil cooler. i need to shorten the plumbing and get a bigger radiator for it but it works well enough for now. ill likely upgrade the entire intercooler circuit once i swap the engine radiator out for a much larger one and add the secondary head rad. looking at additional oil cooling, atf coolers, and a few extra goodies too. lol probably gonna end up with a dozen radiators stuffed in every nook and cranny in the car to keep it cool at high speed.


air to water coolers can be a great deal smaller for the same ΔT capacity due to the much greater specific heat, mass, and thermal conductivity of water vs air. at least if you get one with a true water to air core. i don't have any good photos but if you look the air side should have 2-3X larger passages than the water side. with an air to air you need to flow much more coolant mass to get the same thermal rejection capacity so you end up with a much larger package than you would otherwise with AtW.
85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
11-19-2017, 02:59 AM
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atypicalguy Offline
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#53
RE: Expiremental OM617 build
There must be some sort of flow calculator for the proper pump flow rate. And I recall something about turbulators in the water flow being a good thing to increase the heat transfer by preventing laminar flow of water inside the cooler?
11-21-2017, 09:25 PM
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MFSuper90 Offline
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Location: MOV, Ohio
#54
RE: Expiremental OM617 build
Keep up the good work. I don’t get on here much anymore, but y’all are providing reading material for me when I do.

As far as intercooler flow goes, in truck/tractor pulling the more flow, the better. Lots of guys running 3-4 bilge pumps into big A/W. But they are also using an ice chest for extreme cooling. I know it’s a different ballgame, but same ideas.

I think the bilge pumps probably perform poorly though because they are restricted, and bilge pumps flow poorly restricted
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler Big Grin
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted         
12-17-2017, 11:09 PM
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atypicalguy Offline
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Location: LA
#55
RE: Expiremental OM617 build
I am just going to have the largest dimension radiator manufactured that I can fit under the bumper fascia. http://www.rondavisradiators.com
12-26-2017, 02:41 PM
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atypicalguy Offline
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#56
RE: Expiremental OM617 build
(11-19-2016, 04:15 PM)R-3350 Wrote: i have been having an issue lately with excessive smoking at idle. i did a valve adjustment and re tested the injectors to make sure they were not dripping also changed the glow plugs and inspected the pre-chambers. while i had the plugs out and the injectors i noticed that #1 seemed slightly wet with oil this combined with some slight residual pressure in the coolant expansion tank after sitting for a day confirmed my thoughts of a failed head gasket. it has been smoking for a while and getting steadily worse so i finally decided to pull the head and swap in the new head thats been ported along with the new cam. while i was pulling the head bolts i noticed a few were wet with oil on the threads but dry by the shank two were also covered in soot.[Image: IMG_20161117_170310_zpsuv0jecb4.jpg]
[Image: IMG_20161118_135936_zpsh7cky3q6.jpg]
you can see there where it failed the #3 and 4 also had similar failures just not as bad.
[Image: IMG_20161118_140251_zpsb4apiluw.jpg]
the pistons are pristine with no visible erosion or anything. the bores are great too ~.004" wear step with cross hatching still clearly visible. i still need to surface the ported head and have a three angle valve job done. i have been holding off of doing that work until right before i put it on so as to limit the possibility of damage in storage or transport. while i had the old head off i set it next to the new ported one to show the difference. its quite dramatic especially [Image: IMG_20161119_131357_zps6r7klngn.jpg]
im also considering swapping in a new compressor wheel in the HE221W. [Image: IMG_20161119_134902_zpsz3envjov.jpg]
dimensions are 189mm inducer and 258mm exducer. this plus some slightly larger valves should help it breathe.
[Image: IMG_20161119_135251_zpsmjzsfz0j.jpg]
but seriously i should have the new head on and running before too long. i already have the new gasket and bolts all i need to do is get the machine work done and spend a weekend working. ill be interested to see how much of a difference it will make in power without any fueling changes.

Yah mine failed between 4 and 5 and I had a head bolt so caked with soot it didnt want to come out. I had overheated it about 10 years before and it finally lost compression in
02-19-2018, 09:58 PM
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R-3350 Offline
Dreaming of compounds
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Posts: 164
Joined: Feb 2016
Location: Western NC USA
#57
RE: Expiremental OM617 build
i just finished moving the battery to the trunk today. it noticeably helps the balance in corners and seems to slightly help with squat on acceleration. i mounted a terminal block where the original location for the battery was and ran 15' of 3/0 cable to the trunk secured every 18" with adel clamps. i used the original battery tray by cutting the support leg off it and tack welding it in the side compartment of the trunk so i had a way to secure the battery down.
[Image: AEHTxKaFpsFshygnFWoL4pfa-jaZiQwHaGOnNLuK...48-h618-no]

[Image: HBenpxIlVS38Hah-SZcj8SOpfSt3a5RBGqBMeSP1...59-h638-no]

while i had the car on the lift to route the cable i checked everything and found something exciting. both my flex discs are torn and about to fail. the front one has a 45* twist in it with half of the disc torn and missing it is also missing 3 of the washers around the steel sleeves. while the rear one all the washers are cupped around the tripod legs on the driveshaft with a lot of fibers hanging out. i really need to fix this quickly as i suspect one more good WOT hit and the front driveshaft is going to do this. im looking at having a set made out of aluminum with poly inserts. if it works i may be able to make more for anyone interested.
[Image: 300SDL_rear_tran01.jpg]
85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2018, 01:42 AM by R-3350.)
02-19-2018, 10:43 PM
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R-3350 Offline
Dreaming of compounds
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Posts: 164
Joined: Feb 2016
Location: Western NC USA
#58
RE: Expiremental OM617 build
tentative update on the flex discs. got them installed along with a new driveshaft and center support as my old driveshaft had a failed u-joint as well. i only had to remove one bolt out of the front flex disc to pull it off the trans flange. it had torn the disc till the steel sleeves were hitting each other.  the new ones are working so far. still have some vibration especially over 60 but it quites down around 100. i suspect  that might be due to them not being balanced plus the added weight from being a larger diameter and aluminum. when i made them i realized a couple of ways i could improve the design for the next set so i may make a few more generations of prototypes and test them. if this all works as i think it should i should be able to make them in any flange size for anyone interested.

[Image: rqngz5LJx_sDEFOLvS56mte8HSrcKoLsrM8fkFJy...48-h618-no]
[Image: ljOrhkci7qY4XmbIvzCeQ37FUFtwPv-lfpyg08gj...59-h638-no]
85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2018, 01:41 AM by R-3350.)
03-07-2018, 01:36 AM
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atypicalguy Offline
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Posts: 447
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Location: LA
#59
RE: Expiremental OM617 build
(03-07-2018, 01:36 AM)R-3350 Wrote: tentative update on the flex discs. got them installed along with a new driveshaft and center support as my old driveshaft had a failed u-joint as well. i only had to remove one bolt out of the front flex disc to pull it off the trans flange. it had torn the disc till the steel sleeves were hitting each other.  the new ones are working so far. still have some vibration especially over 60 but it quites down around 100. i suspect  that might be due to them not being balanced plus the added weight from being a larger diameter and aluminum. when i made them i realized a couple of ways i could improve the design for the next set so i may make a few more generations of prototypes and test them. if this all works as i think it should i should be able to make them in any flange size for anyone interested.

Neat. Would be nice if they didn't shake though. Did you line up the driveshaft marks? Apparently not aligning the two halves properly can take it out of balance.

My goal for the w124 wagon is to take the driveline out of a V8 w140 and modify to suit. I already have an extra 2.24 rear from the e420 (switched to 2.82), so maybe that will make gears 1-2 more usable and give me the eight hole flex discs also. I would need the four bolt yoke for the transmission however. Then I would get a set of v8 non-ASR half shafts to sub for the less beefy diesel ones.
[Image: rqngz5LJx_sDEFOLvS56mte8HSrcKoLsrM8fkFJy...48-h618-no]
[Image: ljOrhkci7qY4XmbIvzCeQ37FUFtwPv-lfpyg08gj...59-h638-no]
03-10-2018, 07:10 PM
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R-3350 Offline
Dreaming of compounds
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Posts: 164
Joined: Feb 2016
Location: Western NC USA
#60
RE: Expiremental OM617 build
the driveshaft is in balance the issue is the new flex discs are heavier than the old ones and not balanced. i thought about going to a flex disc set from a 119 powered car but then realized that i am already making close to the torque of a 119 and with future upgrades will be well past that so i doubt that would reliably take the abuse i give my driveline. especially once i go to a manual the ill have to look at a new driveshaft as well. in the mean time i don't care about some vibration as i have solid engine mounts and trans mount that plus B8 shocks, cut springs from a non sls 560sel, strait pipe, and an 18mm rear swaybar make for a fun ride. i also removed all the sound damping i could and gutted the A/C system. i refuse to own a car with A/C and have removed it on everything i own.
85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
03-11-2018, 12:53 AM
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atypicalguy Offline
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Posts: 447
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#61
RE: Expiremental OM617 build
(03-11-2018, 12:53 AM)R-3350 Wrote: the driveshaft is in balance the issue is the new flex discs are heavier than the old ones and not balanced. i thought about going to a flex disc set from a 119 powered car but then realized that i am already making close to the torque of a 119 and with future upgrades will be well past that so i doubt that would reliably take the abuse i give my driveline. especially once i go to a manual the ill have to look at a new driveshaft as well. in the mean time i don't care about some vibration as i have solid engine mounts and trans mount that plus B8 shocks, cut springs from a non sls 560sel, strait pipe, and an 18mm rear swaybar make for a fun ride. i also removed all the sound damping i could and gutted the A/C system. i refuse to own a car with A/C and have removed it on everything i own.

Did the rear swaybar from a 500e fit your car? 

The v8 flex discs hold up to om606 power and torque pretty well, so that's not really an issue.

There are half shaft twisting issues to contemplate. Just another reason to use the v8 stuff. I think some of the 126 stuff bolts up to the 123, either 500 or 560. My mechanic had the drivetrain from a v8 in his 123 wagon. He used to tow his ski boat with it.
03-13-2018, 06:37 AM
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R-3350 Offline
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Posts: 164
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Location: Western NC USA
#62
RE: Expiremental OM617 build
after testing them for a while i am comfortable saying i cant break them, at least not yet. Burned a set of free 14's off the rear and did a few hard launches from a dead stop to 120mph and no signs of any stress or failure in them so i am confident they will be good for now. the vibration issue is purely from the balance of the disc and some tolerances in the manufacturing (these are prototypes after all). when i make another set in the future ill have to balance them and see if it solves the issue. 

as for the sway bar, i work at a shop that does vintage euro restorations and modifications. i found something out of a car we scrapped that was similar enough to fit with some different mounts.
85 300D om617: 8mm M pump 175cc 5200rpm, holset he221w @ 30psi, large A2W ic, compounds on the way.
03-14-2018, 07:58 PM
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