Super Pump Idle Adjustment
Super Pump Idle Adjustment
Also, I don't suspect the ELR being in 2 different locations will have any functional difference? Yes, this is my first rodeo.
Thanks!
I recently received my super pump from Herlevi. Instead of the idle adjustment screw and locknut (right, stock pump), the pump came with a vacuum/pressure canister (left). Can anybody fill me in on the reason why, and whether it would be appropriate to remove and replace with the idle adjustment screw?
Also, I don't suspect the ELR being in 2 different locations will have any functional difference? Yes, this is my first rodeo.
Thanks!
Duncansport
05-03-2016, 12:22 PM #2The lower "elr" is not an elf but rather a "anti jerk solenoid" for manual cars. There was a lot of discussion about how to hook it up and make it work, some searching might be needed. You adjust the idle speed but loosening the jamb nut and turning the vacuum dashpot (just like the screw on your stock pump)
It's also largely free of any trouble, ELR can be faulty (eletronics) and cause irratic idle or too high/too low idle etc. So - all good here!
Only advantage of ELR is that it actually regulates idle, vacuume is just on/off increase for cold idle. So unless your engine stalls with power steering on full lock & A/C compressor activated, I don't see any need for ELR... I tried on my OM603, even with too low idle it wasn't impressed by this test :-)
DiseaselWeasel
05-03-2016, 12:33 PM #44- and 5-cylinder cars have pneumatic (via temp. switch) cold idle increase. 6-cyl and 4/5-cyl. with A/C & auto trans have also ELR and I think 250 Turbo as well, but not familiar with those). So what car you have, what pump? Vacuume is WAY easyer to hook up, only two hoses & a switch that senses coolant temp and your done. So that's actually a good thing your new pump doesn't have ELR It's also largely free of any trouble, ELR can be faulty (eletronics) and cause irratic idle or too high/too low idle etc.
So - all good here!
Only advantage of ELR is that it actually regulates idle, vacuume is just on/off increase for cold idle. So unless your engine stalls with power steering on full lock & A/C compressor activated, I don't see any need for ELR... I tried on my OM603, even with too low idle it wasn't impressed by this test :-)
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Mercedes 190 -92, om605 Stroker 2.75L, Dieselmeken 7,5mm (160cc) EDC with Baldur DSL1 ECU, Garrett GTX3576R A/R 1.06 without WG, SMF, 716.661 (SG-S370/6) Gearbox
I found my 8mm Herlevi pump to be very strong at idle. Have not stalled it yet. Not like my 7,5mm Dieselmeken when i had to have some rev to get away from a standstill. But it can also be from pump configuration as i have adjusted everything myself except the tune in for elements and not a drop-in like my other pump.
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Mercedes 190 -92, om605 Stroker 2.75L, Dieselmeken 7,5mm (160cc) EDC with Baldur DSL1 ECU, Garrett GTX3576R A/R 1.06 without WG, SMF, 716.661 (SG-S370/6) Gearbox
Would also like to know if the vac version is a direct swap for the ELR for simples.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
The ELR needs PWM not just voltage so it's hard to wire.
Would also like to know if the vac version is a direct swap for the ELR for simples.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(05-04-2016, 06:51 AM)Hario The ELR needs PWM not just voltage so it's hard to wire.
Would also like to know if the vac version is a direct swap for the ELR for simples.
My car has ELR (via EDS).
For the sake of unnecessary complication, can the ELR solenoid and original idle-control screw be installed on the superpump? I.e. can I simply remove the aluminum "plug" in the superpump and bolt the ELR solenoid on? Or, would the pump have to modified for the ELR?
(05-04-2016, 06:51 AM)Hario The ELR needs PWM not just voltage so it's hard to wire.
Would also like to know if the vac version is a direct swap for the ELR for simples.
My car has ELR (via EDS).
For the sake of unnecessary complication, can the ELR solenoid and original idle-control screw be installed on the superpump? I.e. can I simply remove the aluminum "plug" in the superpump and bolt the ELR solenoid on? Or, would the pump have to modified for the ELR?
I've bypassed the whole ELR thing by just adjusting idle with the top screw. However on cold starts idle rpms are lower. I just flicked a switch supplying 12v to the ELR and it would rev about 1000 rpm. Kinda like a petrol choke idea. However it's kinda a redneck solution.
Well, I don't know that much about it, but the ELR pushes against a lever on the inside. And it's just a PWM controlled pin that's comes out I think. So yeah you should be able to.
I've bypassed the whole ELR thing by just adjusting idle with the top screw. However on cold starts idle rpms are lower. I just flicked a switch supplying 12v to the ELR and it would rev about 1000 rpm. Kinda like a petrol choke idea. However it's kinda a redneck solution.
U hapen to fall in the tale of all the pumps are the same, and now u have to live with it....
Fortunatly is not that bad for u. If it was oposite was worst.
Usually for a day driver u send your own pump to be tuned instead of buying any one at a best price, and the reason ia that there are many governor shapes and features , and they all fit the same pumps but dont fit the cars they were meant.
To your last question , NO u can´t change the back of one pump in the other. what can be done is the GOV assy can be changed to the new pump , but if u do that u will lose the setings , and your old governor has to be tuned, by someone who knows how and in a bench.
In your new pump u have pneumatic idle increase , wich increases your idle when engine is cold, by aplying vac to the capsule in the vertical . that is easy to fix. (your old pump has ELR wich is electronic idle control)
The new pump has a ARA control wich is used to cut fuel to minimise jerking in auto trans. Your old pump does not have it. is not necessary, but u can sure add the electronic controller for that to operate.
The rest is the same , so no need to worry to much, about the idle strenght usually a 7mm or 8mm pump has a very strong idle recovery so u wont notice any stall cause air conditioner, or any other gadget .
regards
FD,
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hy Jvance,
U hapen to fall in the tale of all the pumps are the same, and now u have to live with it....
Fortunatly is not that bad for u. If it was oposite was worst.
Usually for a day driver u send your own pump to be tuned instead of buying any one at a best price, and the reason ia that there are many governor shapes and features , and they all fit the same pumps but dont fit the cars they were meant.
To your last question , NO u can´t change the back of one pump in the other. what can be done is the GOV assy can be changed to the new pump , but if u do that u will lose the setings , and your old governor has to be tuned, by someone who knows how and in a bench.
In your new pump u have pneumatic idle increase , wich increases your idle when engine is cold, by aplying vac to the capsule in the vertical . that is easy to fix. (your old pump has ELR wich is electronic idle control)
The new pump has a ARA control wich is used to cut fuel to minimise jerking in auto trans. Your old pump does not have it. is not necessary, but u can sure add the electronic controller for that to operate.
The rest is the same , so no need to worry to much, about the idle strenght usually a 7mm or 8mm pump has a very strong idle recovery so u wont notice any stall cause air conditioner, or any other gadget .
regards
FD,
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(05-06-2016, 06:00 AM)barrote To your last question , NO u can´t change the back of one pump in the other.
Thanks for the info. From what you've said here, the issue with the ELR that the internal mechanism of my new pump is not compatible with the ELR solenoid, correct?
I should have specified that I needed ELR when I ordered the pump but, like you said, I thought a pump was a pump. I wanted to keep my old pump, and I told Herlevi I was running a manual transmission and didn't mention my car originally had an automatic, so he supplied a pump for a car equipped with a manual transmission. My fault
Alright, I think I'm squared away now.
(05-06-2016, 06:00 AM)barrote To your last question , NO u can´t change the back of one pump in the other.
Thanks for the info. From what you've said here, the issue with the ELR that the internal mechanism of my new pump is not compatible with the ELR solenoid, correct?
I should have specified that I needed ELR when I ordered the pump but, like you said, I thought a pump was a pump. I wanted to keep my old pump, and I told Herlevi I was running a manual transmission and didn't mention my car originally had an automatic, so he supplied a pump for a car equipped with a manual transmission. My fault
Alright, I think I'm squared away now.
U should have sent them the chassis number , so that they could send u the correct RS number governor.
Nothing is lost u can either , send them the original governor along with the new they tune it and sent it back to u.
or u do it by yourself, if that is the case u must watch care , that has to be done by someone rather expert on that.
removing the governor won´t unbalance and dephase the pump, the basic timming wont be afected too, wich are the most dificult things to achieve. once u have the old governor there, the pump will run like a stock on steroids, to become a superpump u have to tune the rack push , that is the trick .... few know how to do....
FD,
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pretty much that ,
U should have sent them the chassis number , so that they could send u the correct RS number governor.
Nothing is lost u can either , send them the original governor along with the new they tune it and sent it back to u.
or u do it by yourself, if that is the case u must watch care , that has to be done by someone rather expert on that.
removing the governor won´t unbalance and dephase the pump, the basic timming wont be afected too, wich are the most dificult things to achieve. once u have the old governor there, the pump will run like a stock on steroids, to become a superpump u have to tune the rack push , that is the trick .... few know how to do....
FD,
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At the moment, I'm seeing this as a crash-course in learning "everything I didn't know about IPs, because of the situation I'm now in." I appreciate all of the information, as I now have a better understanding of what functions these different features perform on the IP (and that they are not simply interchangeable, but have different internal mechanisms as well...probably something I wouldn't learn unless I opened up both pumps and dug around).
Seeing as others have confirmed the pump should have a strong enough idle without ELR, I'm weighing whether anything is gained (other than the convenience of using my existing EDS) by keeping ELR; conversely, I suppose the ELR's PWM signal (from the EDS) could be used to control a solenoid to modulate vacuum to the dashpot on the new superpump.
Or, I can build up an Arduino kit with PWM outputs for regulating a solenoid for the dashpot and the ARA solenoid, and remove the EDS altogether (since the EGR crap was removed quite some time ago).
Or...I could run it, as-is?
At the moment, I'm seeing this as a crash-course in learning "everything I didn't know about IPs, because of the situation I'm now in." I appreciate all of the information, as I now have a better understanding of what functions these different features perform on the IP (and that they are not simply interchangeable, but have different internal mechanisms as well...probably something I wouldn't learn unless I opened up both pumps and dug around).
Seeing as others have confirmed the pump should have a strong enough idle without ELR, I'm weighing whether anything is gained (other than the convenience of using my existing EDS) by keeping ELR; conversely, I suppose the ELR's PWM signal (from the EDS) could be used to control a solenoid to modulate vacuum to the dashpot on the new superpump.
Or, I can build up an Arduino kit with PWM outputs for regulating a solenoid for the dashpot and the ARA solenoid, and remove the EDS altogether (since the EGR crap was removed quite some time ago).
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