om602 Project Questions
om602 Project Questions
Hopefully, I'm on the right track...
- I've sent an inquiry to DIS about rebuilding my IP with 7.5mm elements.
- Exhaust manifold...Does anybody make a raw exhaust flange for the om602 head? I've read a few folks recommend welding a new turbo flange onto the cast manifold (maybe this was not om602 specific). I realize the primaries on the stock manifold are very short, but would a modified stock manifold be restrictive at this power level?
- How durable is the stock om602 under these power levels, assuming EGTs are kept in check? (I'm not a red-light racer, I don't flog my engines mercilessly)
- I realize the 722.4 is the glass jaw of the project. I'm considering locating a 722.3 out of a 500SL. I'm assuming if the engine-bellhousing patterns are different, the bellhousing from my 722.4 will swap onto the 722.3? Will torque converters interchange? (sorry, I realize this is a driveline question)
Anything major I have overlooked before I dive in? I haven't thought too much about turbos yet, and probably won't until I consider what my options are for fabricating a manifold. This seems pretty tame compared to some of the projects around here, but I haven't seen much done with the om602; is 250-300hp realistic with the 7.5 elements and an appropriately sized turbo, or will this be a time-bomb?
Thanks in advance!
I'm considering upgrading the om602 in my '93 300d, shooting for 250-300hp daily-drivable HP.
Hopefully, I'm on the right track...
- I've sent an inquiry to DIS about rebuilding my IP with 7.5mm elements.
- Exhaust manifold...Does anybody make a raw exhaust flange for the om602 head? I've read a few folks recommend welding a new turbo flange onto the cast manifold (maybe this was not om602 specific). I realize the primaries on the stock manifold are very short, but would a modified stock manifold be restrictive at this power level?
- How durable is the stock om602 under these power levels, assuming EGTs are kept in check? (I'm not a red-light racer, I don't flog my engines mercilessly)
- I realize the 722.4 is the glass jaw of the project. I'm considering locating a 722.3 out of a 500SL. I'm assuming if the engine-bellhousing patterns are different, the bellhousing from my 722.4 will swap onto the 722.3? Will torque converters interchange? (sorry, I realize this is a driveline question)
Anything major I have overlooked before I dive in? I haven't thought too much about turbos yet, and probably won't until I consider what my options are for fabricating a manifold. This seems pretty tame compared to some of the projects around here, but I haven't seen much done with the om602; is 250-300hp realistic with the 7.5 elements and an appropriately sized turbo, or will this be a time-bomb?
Thanks in advance!
The 722.3 from a V8 won't bolt on to the OM602 and the bellhousing is not removable so you should get a 722.3 that was behund an OM603.
I don't think the manifold is an issue at that power level. You have a T25 flange on the manifold ? The HE221W will bolt on to your manifold and support at least 250hp. Of course you must install a decently sized intercooler. The most important thing is the pump, it is best to order one from dieselmeken.
The 722.3 from a V8 won't bolt on to the OM602 and the bellhousing is not removable so you should get a 722.3 that was behund an OM603.
(02-15-2016, 06:05 AM)Petar I don't think the manifold is an issue at that power level. You have a T25 flange on the manifold ? The HE221W will bolt on to your manifold and support at least 250hp. Of course you must install a decently sized intercooler. The most important thing is the pump, it is best to order one from dieselmeken.
The 722.3 from a V8 won't bolt on to the OM602 and the bellhousing is not removable so you should get a 722.3 that was behund an OM603.
If I settle with the t25 flange, there's also several GT28 turbos to choose from that should bolt up. Regarding the pump, dieselmeken gave us the heads-up on DIS here: http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...p?tid=4998 Unless folks come out of the woodwork to share poor experience with DIS, I think I'll give them a shot.
Thanks for the info on the V8 722.3. It's a bit difficult to comb through some of that info in the driveline forum, now with the 722.6 being the current craze. I'll keep my eyes peeled for om603's being parted out...
(02-15-2016, 06:05 AM)Petar I don't think the manifold is an issue at that power level. You have a T25 flange on the manifold ? The HE221W will bolt on to your manifold and support at least 250hp. Of course you must install a decently sized intercooler. The most important thing is the pump, it is best to order one from dieselmeken.
The 722.3 from a V8 won't bolt on to the OM602 and the bellhousing is not removable so you should get a 722.3 that was behund an OM603.
If I settle with the t25 flange, there's also several GT28 turbos to choose from that should bolt up. Regarding the pump, dieselmeken gave us the heads-up on DIS here: http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/show...p?tid=4998 Unless folks come out of the woodwork to share poor experience with DIS, I think I'll give them a shot.
Thanks for the info on the V8 722.3. It's a bit difficult to comb through some of that info in the driveline forum, now with the 722.6 being the current craze. I'll keep my eyes peeled for om603's being parted out...
I built a 602 a few years back with a H1C and all the supporting mods. It was very fast for what it was. I would say about as powerfull a a S4 that had been re-flashed. The trans sadly hated it....
You dont have to use just a .3 from a OM603 car as there's lots of .3's that will work for you as all M103 cars use them as well as all pre 96' M104 share a similar bell housing.
Duncansport
02-15-2016, 08:37 AM #4I just did a dieselmeken pump for a customer who asked him that the new pump fuel levels be kept close to stock for now. I installed the pump with a electric supply pump, gas car fuel tank screen and supply hose as well as a FPR set at 20 psi for now. I converted his turbo to a pressure based wastegate actuator and set the pump timing at 11 ATDC. With a stock turbo and stock boost levels the new pump was more then capable to cause the transmission to slip badly in the 2-3 shits as well as spin the tires from a stop. It's amazing how much torque is available at low RPM's when using the little OEM turbo. Of course it completely fell off above 3500RPM.
I built a 602 a few years back with a H1C and all the supporting mods. It was very fast for what it was. I would say about as powerfull a a S4 that had been re-flashed. The trans sadly hated it....
You dont have to use just a .3 from a OM603 car as there's lots of .3's that will work for you as all M103 cars use them as well as all pre 96' M104 share a similar bell housing.
(02-15-2016, 08:37 AM)Duncansport I just did a dieselmeken pump for a customer who asked him that the new pump fuel levels be kept close to stock for now. I installed the pump with a electric supply pump, gas car fuel tank screen and supply hose as well as a FPR set at 20 psi for now. I converted his turbo to a pressure based wastegate actuator and set the pump timing at 11 ATDC. With a stock turbo and stock boost levels the new pump was more then capable to cause the transmission to slip badly in the 2-3 shits as well as spin the tires from a stop. It's amazing how much torque is available at low RPM's when using the little OEM turbo. Of course it completely fell off above 3500RPM.
I built a 602 a few years back with a H1C and all the supporting mods. It was very fast for what it was. I would say about as powerfull a a S4 that had been re-flashed. The trans sadly hated it....
You dont have to use just a .3 from a OM603 car as there's lots of .3's that will work for you as all M103 cars use them as well as all pre 96' M104 share a similar bell housing.
Thanks for the info on .3's...I wasn't able to sift out that compatibility from searching the forum, so hopefully others who have the same question will find this helpful, too.
(02-15-2016, 08:37 AM)Duncansport I just did a dieselmeken pump for a customer who asked him that the new pump fuel levels be kept close to stock for now. I installed the pump with a electric supply pump, gas car fuel tank screen and supply hose as well as a FPR set at 20 psi for now. I converted his turbo to a pressure based wastegate actuator and set the pump timing at 11 ATDC. With a stock turbo and stock boost levels the new pump was more then capable to cause the transmission to slip badly in the 2-3 shits as well as spin the tires from a stop. It's amazing how much torque is available at low RPM's when using the little OEM turbo. Of course it completely fell off above 3500RPM.
I built a 602 a few years back with a H1C and all the supporting mods. It was very fast for what it was. I would say about as powerfull a a S4 that had been re-flashed. The trans sadly hated it....
You dont have to use just a .3 from a OM603 car as there's lots of .3's that will work for you as all M103 cars use them as well as all pre 96' M104 share a similar bell housing.
Thanks for the info on .3's...I wasn't able to sift out that compatibility from searching the forum, so hopefully others who have the same question will find this helpful, too.
There for you do not have a good way to control modulator pressure, you either leave not hooked up and deal with a terribly harsh shift or connect and have nice shifts at the expense of transmission life.
One work around would be to have the modulator valve hooked up to full vacuum all the time and install a vacuum solenoid that activates with the kick down switch, plumb it in a fashion that would dump vacuum to the modulator valve when at full throttle only, thus giving you the nice firm up-shifts only at WOT.
One other issue is that on both the 602's I've done the factory linkage doesn't really work, it needs to be modified to allow the rack to return to full stop. But then there's the issue that you don't have true full throttle when you floor it as the linkage has only so much travel. You could convert to a cable but then trying to get the transmission TV cable to work would be a problem.
Just thought you should know :-)
Duncansport
02-15-2016, 09:50 AM #6It's important you understand a fundamental issue when using .3 & .4's with cars that have modified pumps. The vacuum control device (mounted to the side of the IP to simulate a gas engines vacuum signature for the modulator pressure) will not work with a superpump. The superpump has a different closed and full throttle position (i think more rack travel?), by installing the vacuum control device your pump will not be able to reach full throttle and possibly not fully closed (as was my issue twice now)
There for you do not have a good way to control modulator pressure, you either leave not hooked up and deal with a terribly harsh shift or connect and have nice shifts at the expense of transmission life.
One work around would be to have the modulator valve hooked up to full vacuum all the time and install a vacuum solenoid that activates with the kick down switch, plumb it in a fashion that would dump vacuum to the modulator valve when at full throttle only, thus giving you the nice firm up-shifts only at WOT.
One other issue is that on both the 602's I've done the factory linkage doesn't really work, it needs to be modified to allow the rack to return to full stop. But then there's the issue that you don't have true full throttle when you floor it as the linkage has only so much travel. You could convert to a cable but then trying to get the transmission TV cable to work would be a problem.
Just thought you should know :-)
Maybe I'm overthinking this, but still trying to sift through the knowledge base...which is tricky when many threads/posts are dealing with transmissions that came from vehicles we don't see here in the US.
Again, thanks for your help!
I'm sorry to continue with the newb questions. The 190e manual trans is easy enough to identify, however the 722.6 is a bit more perplexing. I see that the 722.6 from the w210/E320 and w202/C-class are fairly common and inexpensive. Any insight into their torque limits? I imagine the E320 version would be stronger to deal with the larger engine and heavier car? Or is it more common to take a w210/w202 bellhousing and mate it with a beefier version of the 722.6?
Maybe I'm overthinking this, but still trying to sift through the knowledge base...which is tricky when many threads/posts are dealing with transmissions that came from vehicles we don't see here in the US.
Again, thanks for your help!
in the states u have very good manuals on the w124/w126 w140 M103/104/111 all have the same block patern... all inline mb engines have same bolt to block patern....
the 722´s on the E500 and so on can be made to bolt on the flanges of the ones of inline engines .... there must be many in the states available ....
otherwise a 716 is also a choice if coming from a slk M111 do the trick , same patern u can use the clutch anything from na inline engine works
after the .5 they are electrohydraulic so TCU is needed...
FD,
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forguet all that crap 722.6 cause u need a TCU to run it and it need to talk with the ECU u dont have....
in the states u have very good manuals on the w124/w126 w140 M103/104/111 all have the same block patern... all inline mb engines have same bolt to block patern....
the 722´s on the E500 and so on can be made to bolt on the flanges of the ones of inline engines .... there must be many in the states available ....
otherwise a 716 is also a choice if coming from a slk M111 do the trick , same patern u can use the clutch anything from na inline engine works
after the .5 they are electrohydraulic so TCU is needed...
FD,
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(02-15-2016, 02:15 PM)barrote forguet all that crap 722.6 cause u need a TCU to run it and it need to talk with the ECU u dont have....It's not anywhere outside my technical expertise, so not really an issue.
(02-15-2016, 02:15 PM)barrote in the states u have very good manuals on the w124/w126 w140Maybe some pickings among w126s...but manuals in w124s and w140s are rare.
Are the 6-speeds out of the SLK strong enough?
On the other hand, there is an S420 and several E320's at our local Pick-N-Pull...a couple of hours, a lot of cursing, and $150 might yield something decent to start with, no?
(02-15-2016, 02:15 PM)barrote forguet all that crap 722.6 cause u need a TCU to run it and it need to talk with the ECU u dont have....It's not anywhere outside my technical expertise, so not really an issue.
(02-15-2016, 02:15 PM)barrote in the states u have very good manuals on the w124/w126 w140Maybe some pickings among w126s...but manuals in w124s and w140s are rare.
Are the 6-speeds out of the SLK strong enough?
On the other hand, there is an S420 and several E320's at our local Pick-N-Pull...a couple of hours, a lot of cursing, and $150 might yield something decent to start with, no?
(02-15-2016, 02:15 PM)barrote forguet all that crap 722.6 cause u need a TCU to run it and it need to talk with the ECU u dont have....
in the states u have very good manuals on the w124/w126 w140 M103/104/111 all have the same block patern... all inline mb engines have same bolt to block patern....
the 722´s on the E500 and so on can be made to bolt on the flanges of the ones of inline engines .... there must be many in the states available ....
otherwise a 716 is also a choice if coming from a slk M111 do the trick , same patern u can use the clutch anything from na inline engine works
after the .5 they are electrohydraulic so TCU is needed...
Here we only had W201 in manual and one year (1986) of W124..... very rare here.
Later SLK's and C230 cars with M111 had a 5 speed but its horrible.
Not sure why the poo poo on the .6. There's two proven simple controllers for the trans and it's a very proven box.
Duncansport
02-15-2016, 03:11 PM #12(02-15-2016, 02:15 PM)barrote forguet all that crap 722.6 cause u need a TCU to run it and it need to talk with the ECU u dont have....
in the states u have very good manuals on the w124/w126 w140 M103/104/111 all have the same block patern... all inline mb engines have same bolt to block patern....
the 722´s on the E500 and so on can be made to bolt on the flanges of the ones of inline engines .... there must be many in the states available ....
otherwise a 716 is also a choice if coming from a slk M111 do the trick , same patern u can use the clutch anything from na inline engine works
after the .5 they are electrohydraulic so TCU is needed...
Here we only had W201 in manual and one year (1986) of W124..... very rare here.
Later SLK's and C230 cars with M111 had a 5 speed but its horrible.
Not sure why the poo poo on the .6. There's two proven simple controllers for the trans and it's a very proven box.
(02-15-2016, 02:28 PM)JVance(02-15-2016, 02:15 PM)barrote forguet all that crap 722.6 cause u need a TCU to run it and it need to talk with the ECU u dont have....It's not anywhere outside my technical expertise, so not really an issue.
Here is a great controller from a member here that is very proven
http://ofgear.dk/
(02-15-2016, 02:15 PM)barrote in the states u have very good manuals on the w124/w126 w140Maybe some pickings among w126s...but manuals in w124s and w140s are rare.
Are the 6-speeds out of the SLK strong enough?
On the other hand, there is an S420 and several E320's at our local Pick-N-Pull...a couple of hours, a lot of cursing, and $150 might yield something decent to start with, no?
The 6 speeds do work but only from the M111 engine, you'll need the shifter assembly and a pedal box. Sadly they use a annoying linkage/cable set up. If you've ever drive one you know they shift rather shitty. I honestly think the BMW box is the best bet, its pricey but the best bet!
Duncansport
02-15-2016, 03:16 PM #13(02-15-2016, 02:28 PM)JVance(02-15-2016, 02:15 PM)barrote forguet all that crap 722.6 cause u need a TCU to run it and it need to talk with the ECU u dont have....It's not anywhere outside my technical expertise, so not really an issue.
Here is a great controller from a member here that is very proven
http://ofgear.dk/
(02-15-2016, 02:15 PM)barrote in the states u have very good manuals on the w124/w126 w140Maybe some pickings among w126s...but manuals in w124s and w140s are rare.
Are the 6-speeds out of the SLK strong enough?
On the other hand, there is an S420 and several E320's at our local Pick-N-Pull...a couple of hours, a lot of cursing, and $150 might yield something decent to start with, no?
The 6 speeds do work but only from the M111 engine, you'll need the shifter assembly and a pedal box. Sadly they use a annoying linkage/cable set up. If you've ever drive one you know they shift rather shitty. I honestly think the BMW box is the best bet, its pricey but the best bet!
Just my opinion. I've had my old w124 with a 7mm pump and about 300hp with one of those vacuum controlled boxes. I trashed it within the first week. I didn't change line pressure though...
If you have spare money, go 722.6. You won't regret. Fully customizable and I've yet to see the first one fail due to torque. Even the ones from small engines seem to do fine. They also come in bulletproof versions which have held up more than 800nm. The gearbox is easy to find and rather cheap. The controller is a little more expensive.
Just my opinion. I've had my old w124 with a 7mm pump and about 300hp with one of those vacuum controlled boxes. I trashed it within the first week. I didn't change line pressure though...
716´s are not very common here either being only one version of engine with it suitable for the STD projects, the engine 612 ... some people claim the the 716 found in the 611 and m111 hold the job nicely... engines over the 612/47 only are sold with manuals at costumer request i belive...
the gear shifter is kind of odd but can be modded to work great... other concern is the odometer...
other day was looking at a E36 box and found its kind of easy to adapt... that´s a solution,
FD,
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well it seems i was wrong with the US market....
716´s are not very common here either being only one version of engine with it suitable for the STD projects, the engine 612 ... some people claim the the 716 found in the 611 and m111 hold the job nicely... engines over the 612/47 only are sold with manuals at costumer request i belive...
the gear shifter is kind of odd but can be modded to work great... other concern is the odometer...
other day was looking at a E36 box and found its kind of easy to adapt... that´s a solution,
FD,
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G Wagen with Dieselmeken 7.5 mm pump set at 90 cc with stock turbo and 722.4 box, I know....
The 722.3 I had earmarked for this is toast sadly, will rebuild it stronger than ever one day, the day the 722.4 blows up which by the info I got, could,be pretty soon!
Was going to hook up de vacuum control valve but may not bother now. Shifts at part throttle are, let us say, jarring. Half to full throttle they feel fine for now. All based on a grand total of 50 miles driving by the way.
Was going to use the vcv on the to be rebuild 722.3 but your info has put me off.
Great to learn something new again, thanks!
And apologies for hyjacking the thread
Thank you Duncansport for that very valuable info. Certainly need to rethink my strategy now...
G Wagen with Dieselmeken 7.5 mm pump set at 90 cc with stock turbo and 722.4 box, I know....
The 722.3 I had earmarked for this is toast sadly, will rebuild it stronger than ever one day, the day the 722.4 blows up which by the info I got, could,be pretty soon!
Was going to hook up de vacuum control valve but may not bother now. Shifts at part throttle are, let us say, jarring. Half to full throttle they feel fine for now. All based on a grand total of 50 miles driving by the way.
Was going to use the vcv on the to be rebuild 722.3 but your info has put me off.
Great to learn something new again, thanks!
And apologies for hyjacking the thread
i belive they start to be reliable from the .43X on there are actually .45X and .46X
My std if can cal it that, destroid the .413 original , then i hooked a .416 destroid and now i have a .430 wich is holding quite well.
the concerns with the clutch kit , flywheel dada , well some of this 717´s are mean´t to use with a single mass FW and the others dual mass FW. the dif is the imput shaft lenght, the DMF are suported in the DMF and the SMF in the crankshaft , but with a bit of inginuity u can use the SMF shaft in the DMF.
.411 is SMF input shaft.
if u search in junkyards, for sure u had some MB with a manual with the engine M103 2.6 liter this one is fitted with a .430 and clutch that will hold the 602 output .... more or less.
otherwise the trick would be W202 C250 DMF + 717.45X or a w211 270CDI 716+ DMF that is the best choice for a 5cyl STD .
regards
FD,
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that´s not my concern , but the .411 or .40/.41 is not suitable for STD , they are very week.
i belive they start to be reliable from the .43X on there are actually .45X and .46X
My std if can cal it that, destroid the .413 original , then i hooked a .416 destroid and now i have a .430 wich is holding quite well.
the concerns with the clutch kit , flywheel dada , well some of this 717´s are mean´t to use with a single mass FW and the others dual mass FW. the dif is the imput shaft lenght, the DMF are suported in the DMF and the SMF in the crankshaft , but with a bit of inginuity u can use the SMF shaft in the DMF.
.411 is SMF input shaft.
if u search in junkyards, for sure u had some MB with a manual with the engine M103 2.6 liter this one is fitted with a .430 and clutch that will hold the 602 output .... more or less.
otherwise the trick would be W202 C250 DMF + 717.45X or a w211 270CDI 716+ DMF that is the best choice for a 5cyl STD .
regards
FD,
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(02-15-2016, 10:45 PM)JVance Alright, moving along at a bit quicker pace...just sourced a 717.411 5-speed from a '90 190e.
Now I need to locate a flywheel...
i have a flywheel/ clutch combo. The clutch is dead (even though its new) pay shipping and ill give it to you.
Duncansport
02-16-2016, 07:41 AM #20(02-15-2016, 10:45 PM)JVance Alright, moving along at a bit quicker pace...just sourced a 717.411 5-speed from a '90 190e.
Now I need to locate a flywheel...
i have a flywheel/ clutch combo. The clutch is dead (even though its new) pay shipping and ill give it to you.
I will pull the IP soon. I plan to buy the IP cam lock tool (601-589-05-21-00), however I've seen a few tutorials online that describe inserting the timing basket prior to removing the IP so that the timing gear/chain is held in place. I am under the impression my om602 did not include this basket (excluded on engines after 1989?), and this part (601-589-05-14-00) is horrendously expensive, if required for nothing else other than to hold the gear and chain while the IP is off the engine.
The engine is coming out for the trans-swap anyway, and I will replace timing chain and guides, gaskets, etc. while it's out. Is the timing basket absolutely necessary, especially if reinstalling the IP will be performed while the engine is out of the car? Or should I fabricate a tool that performs a similar function (assuming I can't find one used somewhere)?
More questions...
I will pull the IP soon. I plan to buy the IP cam lock tool (601-589-05-21-00), however I've seen a few tutorials online that describe inserting the timing basket prior to removing the IP so that the timing gear/chain is held in place. I am under the impression my om602 did not include this basket (excluded on engines after 1989?), and this part (601-589-05-14-00) is horrendously expensive, if required for nothing else other than to hold the gear and chain while the IP is off the engine.
The engine is coming out for the trans-swap anyway, and I will replace timing chain and guides, gaskets, etc. while it's out. Is the timing basket absolutely necessary, especially if reinstalling the IP will be performed while the engine is out of the car? Or should I fabricate a tool that performs a similar function (assuming I can't find one used somewhere)?
The forums will tell you otherwise, ive done so much work on OM60x engine without the basket.
Some will disagree with this to, but i wouldn't bother doing your chain and guides this trip unless you plan to rebuild the head. Just wait till you blow the head-gasket then do the work :-)
Duncansport
02-18-2016, 04:16 PM #23Don't waste your time with the basket....
The forums will tell you otherwise, ive done so much work on OM60x engine without the basket.
Some will disagree with this to, but i wouldn't bother doing your chain and guides this trip unless you plan to rebuild the head. Just wait till you blow the head-gasket then do the work :-)
Timing chain will wait.
I was working on the interior this evening (sagging headliner) and idling the car the top off a weak battery, thinking about how smooth it idles and runs in general...wondering, should I even bother with servicing the chain, it can't be that bad. Right? Nonetheless, I'm a fan of confirmation bias
Timing chain will wait.
u got to know how to service it. check the valve lift according to the work card , and if it is too streched tune the cam position and injection.
thats it.
good luck
FD,
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those cars and engines were built in an era where it was too expensive for a family to buy them (in europe) , so they made almost a war vehicle, almost everithing starting in the window control button can be repaired, and the engine was build to last 1 milion kms without being open , only with general servicing. the chain in the 2 valve engine is tuned by wodroof keys.
u got to know how to service it. check the valve lift according to the work card , and if it is too streched tune the cam position and injection.
thats it.
good luck
FD,
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The 722.6 is still an option. The good news is I already have a PCS transmission controller (originally slated for a long-term project), and I can send this to Whipplem104 for a firmware update.
Our local pick-n-pull has a '98 S320 (722.605?) and a '99 e300 turbo-diesel (722.608?). Both models have the same number of friction disks, but is there a difference in the gear ratios between these two transmissions? Am I going to be pushing this transmission too hard, given the modest performance goals I'm after?
The other option I've considered is pulling the 5-speed out of an 2000 BMW e46 325 that's also in the salvage yard. Fabricating a jig to cut off the BMW bellhousing and weld on a Mercedes bellhousing wouldn't be terribly difficult. And I do have a box of aluminum rod just sitting in the corner looking pretty at the moment. I'm still leaning towards the 722.6, but I might do this just for the heck of it and find some poor sap to try it out...
...oh, and then there's the om606 that the 722.608 is attached to. [can o worms]
Alright, I've been on the fence about the 717.411 (or .413? that's another story) since I paid for it.
The 722.6 is still an option. The good news is I already have a PCS transmission controller (originally slated for a long-term project), and I can send this to Whipplem104 for a firmware update.
Our local pick-n-pull has a '98 S320 (722.605?) and a '99 e300 turbo-diesel (722.608?). Both models have the same number of friction disks, but is there a difference in the gear ratios between these two transmissions? Am I going to be pushing this transmission too hard, given the modest performance goals I'm after?
The other option I've considered is pulling the 5-speed out of an 2000 BMW e46 325 that's also in the salvage yard. Fabricating a jig to cut off the BMW bellhousing and weld on a Mercedes bellhousing wouldn't be terribly difficult. And I do have a box of aluminum rod just sitting in the corner looking pretty at the moment. I'm still leaning towards the 722.6, but I might do this just for the heck of it and find some poor sap to try it out...
...oh, and then there's the om606 that the 722.608 is attached to. [can o worms]
A manual with a good holding clutch is somewhat "rough" compared to a autobox. My 6 puck sucks to get moving from a stop, have 2.65 gears doenst help. The good is it holds all the power, the car will break loose at 40mph when the boost hits..
Duncansport
02-23-2016, 04:36 PM #28I'll say this-
A manual with a good holding clutch is somewhat "rough" compared to a autobox. My 6 puck sucks to get moving from a stop, have 2.65 gears doenst help. The good is it holds all the power, the car will break loose at 40mph when the boost hits..
Duncansport
02-24-2016, 07:32 AM #30(02-23-2016, 08:05 PM)JVance Are you still running the 717.430?I am
(02-15-2016, 09:50 AM)Duncansport It's important you understand a fundamental issue when using .3 & .4's with cars that have modified pumps. The vacuum control device (mounted to the side of the IP to simulate a gas engines vacuum signature for the modulator pressure) will not work with a superpump. The superpump has a different closed and full throttle position (i think more rack travel?), by installing the vacuum control device your pump will not be able to reach full throttle and possibly not fully closed (as was my issue twice now)
There for you do not have a good way to control modulator pressure, you either leave not hooked up and deal with a terribly harsh shift or connect and have nice shifts at the expense of transmission life.
One work around would be to have the modulator valve hooked up to full vacuum all the time and install a vacuum solenoid that activates with the kick down switch, plumb it in a fashion that would dump vacuum to the modulator valve when at full throttle only, thus giving you the nice firm up-shifts only at WOT.
One other issue is that on both the 602's I've done the factory linkage doesn't really work, it needs to be modified to allow the rack to return to full stop. But then there's the issue that you don't have true full throttle when you floor it as the linkage has only so much travel. You could convert to a cable but then trying to get the transmission TV cable to work would be a problem.
Just thought you should know :-)
Wondering if you can offer any more input - I just had a pump built by Dieselmeken with 7.5mm elements at 90cc for my OM602. I asked him about just this problem with the VCV, and he asked for the number off of my pump's name plate (it was RS177). He said the pump he was building me was the same number (which I've confirmed to be true) and that I shouldn't lose any functionality. Thoughts?
Bummer-Bob
09-06-2017, 11:09 PM #31(02-15-2016, 09:50 AM)Duncansport It's important you understand a fundamental issue when using .3 & .4's with cars that have modified pumps. The vacuum control device (mounted to the side of the IP to simulate a gas engines vacuum signature for the modulator pressure) will not work with a superpump. The superpump has a different closed and full throttle position (i think more rack travel?), by installing the vacuum control device your pump will not be able to reach full throttle and possibly not fully closed (as was my issue twice now)
There for you do not have a good way to control modulator pressure, you either leave not hooked up and deal with a terribly harsh shift or connect and have nice shifts at the expense of transmission life.
One work around would be to have the modulator valve hooked up to full vacuum all the time and install a vacuum solenoid that activates with the kick down switch, plumb it in a fashion that would dump vacuum to the modulator valve when at full throttle only, thus giving you the nice firm up-shifts only at WOT.
One other issue is that on both the 602's I've done the factory linkage doesn't really work, it needs to be modified to allow the rack to return to full stop. But then there's the issue that you don't have true full throttle when you floor it as the linkage has only so much travel. You could convert to a cable but then trying to get the transmission TV cable to work would be a problem.
Just thought you should know :-)
Wondering if you can offer any more input - I just had a pump built by Dieselmeken with 7.5mm elements at 90cc for my OM602. I asked him about just this problem with the VCV, and he asked for the number off of my pump's name plate (it was RS177). He said the pump he was building me was the same number (which I've confirmed to be true) and that I shouldn't lose any functionality. Thoughts?
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