Help with M-pump adjustment for egt's
Help with M-pump adjustment for egt's
I've gotten an M-pump, 7.5mm on an om617 in a Land Rover Defender.
What I need help with is how to lower the egt's,
It reads at 850° driving & above at times.
Has full IC, Captain America's turbo, boost at 12-14lbs.
Cannot find any threads on how to adjust the max fuel or alda to get egt's lower.
I am a novice with this, Thank you in advance
Howard
Hello,
I've gotten an M-pump, 7.5mm on an om617 in a Land Rover Defender.
What I need help with is how to lower the egt's,
It reads at 850° driving & above at times.
Has full IC, Captain America's turbo, boost at 12-14lbs.
Cannot find any threads on how to adjust the max fuel or alda to get egt's lower.
I am a novice with this, Thank you in advance
Howard
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
wow obviously that's way too high if it's all the time. What does it hit in a full throttle 0-80 run? I don't know the details of that modded pump but you've got to do something, and this is the right place to ask.
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
Maybe 1/3 on foot throttle.
Yesterday drove harder than normal, pushing acceleration harder, and noticed egts stayed low 600-7 till 5th gear n lower rpm's to maintain speed, then egt's creep up till dropping to 4th and they drop to 800ish
At 3k rpm's, 3-5lbs boost 60 mph it's at 8-850°.
Maybe 1/3 on foot throttle.
Yesterday drove harder than normal, pushing acceleration harder, and noticed egts stayed low 600-7 till 5th gear n lower rpm's to maintain speed, then egt's creep up till dropping to 4th and they drop to 800ish
I'm not an expert as some are here but I'm pretty sure the factory specified continous safe stock EGT at 1200*F and 1570*F max. My om617a egt at 60mph cruising are between 750-1150*F, dropped to 650-950*F when I switched to the Garrett from the KKK. Dropped 50*F more with the M pump, my guess is from the short injection duration. Some IDI VW from the 80's run 1600*F egt all day factory spec! 1200*F is really not alot for an IDI, people freak out because DI engine would explode with these kinds of temps. It's not because of the heat they melt down but because the combustion chamber is located in the piston ans thus when it gets hot it expands the piston and scores the cylinder walls causing catastrophic failure. An IDI does not have this problem and has no problem running higher temps.
and above all , where is the temp colected !!!
i do have a 7.5mm too in a 4 valve engine and i never seen temp´s that high, but when i had a 6mm pump and a small GT20 turbocharger they used to skyrocket,
a friend of mine has a 617 in a g and we have done a 7.5mm pump and the EGT´s are in the área of the 500/600ºC at full THR and mantain Hill climb. his pump is with 90cc output , cause in the end tha´s what will make it climb , besides all the other factor´s .
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
EGT´s has a lot to do with pump timing , and quantity injected, exaust restriction caused by turbo , cooler eficiency , engine breathing ,
and above all , where is the temp colected !!!
i do have a 7.5mm too in a 4 valve engine and i never seen temp´s that high, but when i had a 6mm pump and a small GT20 turbocharger they used to skyrocket,
a friend of mine has a 617 in a g and we have done a 7.5mm pump and the EGT´s are in the área of the 500/600ºC at full THR and mantain Hill climb. his pump is with 90cc output , cause in the end tha´s what will make it climb , besides all the other factor´s .
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
(02-03-2016, 10:33 PM)scrubs So it's belived, currently Temps are ok?
I'm new to this and Thank you for replying with your experience
According to Mercedes engineers you are within normal operating temperature. Would we like it lower? Yes. Is this safe? Yes. What concerns me are the tempretures with an intercooler, although they won't hurt anything they should be a little lower.
(02-03-2016, 10:33 PM)scrubs So it's belived, currently Temps are ok?
I'm new to this and Thank you for replying with your experience
According to Mercedes engineers you are within normal operating temperature. Would we like it lower? Yes. Is this safe? Yes. What concerns me are the tempretures with an intercooler, although they won't hurt anything they should be a little lower.
(02-04-2016, 12:38 PM)scrubs Sorry forgot world board, lol.I don't believe this is a fuel issue I think it's a boost issue. Stock setup I run 10-11psi at 65mph. I don't think you're getting complburn in the cylinders because of low boost and that's why the EGT's are up a little. 4psi is a huge difference.
Be on F
Turned rack down today n boost up,
Now at 65mph 3k rpm's 6lbs boost Temps hovering around 1000°F rolling ground
At 55mph 2600k rpm's 2.5lbs boost flat ground
(02-04-2016, 12:38 PM)scrubs Sorry forgot world board, lol.I don't believe this is a fuel issue I think it's a boost issue. Stock setup I run 10-11psi at 65mph. I don't think you're getting complburn in the cylinders because of low boost and that's why the EGT's are up a little. 4psi is a huge difference.
Be on F
Turned rack down today n boost up,
Now at 65mph 3k rpm's 6lbs boost Temps hovering around 1000°F rolling ground
At 55mph 2600k rpm's 2.5lbs boost flat ground
If your power "dives" after 15psi you've got an issue to deal with. What is your timing set at? How heavy is your vehicle and what is your 0-60 time? What's a "Captain America's" turbo?
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
I have a Myna pump with a small IC and the stock turbo- and I've process coated the exhaust manifold. I have enlarged PC's and the two stage VW injectors as well. I see around 650f at 70mph and 6-8 psi to maintain speed. Constant 1200 is not good IMHO, and over 1450f for more than 30 seconds is not good either.
If your power "dives" after 15psi you've got an issue to deal with. What is your timing set at? How heavy is your vehicle and what is your 0-60 time? What's a "Captain America's" turbo?
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
Weight woof, 4900lbs if I remember but will check tomorrow,
Timming I'd have to ask, it's here as a member put the pump on,
0-60, DK yet been back driving just this week after gearbox install n holidays
Yes after it hits 12-13lbs boost it dose loose power n nose dive, did find loose IC hose to manifold today
Temps can climb to 1200 tho let off throttle or down shift slowing down not to go higher, dose run at 900-1000 driving in 5th yet,
Will keep trying, please keep suggestions, have put a lot of effort into this and really over my head with high expectations of the possibilities when all this is corrected of a nice running vehicle
The Captian America turbo is the Garrett T3 60mm wheel in the turbo section in engine area,
Weight woof, 4900lbs if I remember but will check tomorrow,
Timming I'd have to ask, it's here as a member put the pump on,
0-60, DK yet been back driving just this week after gearbox install n holidays
Yes after it hits 12-13lbs boost it dose loose power n nose dive, did find loose IC hose to manifold today
Temps can climb to 1200 tho let off throttle or down shift slowing down not to go higher, dose run at 900-1000 driving in 5th yet,
Will keep trying, please keep suggestions, have put a lot of effort into this and really over my head with high expectations of the possibilities when all this is corrected of a nice running vehicle
(02-05-2016, 01:22 PM)scrubs Ok, manual boost controller installed,That is what I run with my 4000lbs jeep with poor aerodynamics without an intercooler. In my opinion your temps are fine except for the fact that you have an intercooler. The intercooler should be making a big difference but isn't for some reason. It may be that your intercooler is not flowing efficiently and is sucking up your PSI. Low flow intercooler causes lack on boost to combustion chamber, turning the boost up to compensate only heats the air more, in the end you will chase this scenario all day with no gains until you change the intercooler. The intercooler should cause no more than 2-3psi loss.
65mph 2900 rpm's 10 lbs boost 1000° egt's
Is it the weight of the vehicle n poor aerodynamics that is causing higher egt's?
(02-05-2016, 01:22 PM)scrubs Ok, manual boost controller installed,That is what I run with my 4000lbs jeep with poor aerodynamics without an intercooler. In my opinion your temps are fine except for the fact that you have an intercooler. The intercooler should be making a big difference but isn't for some reason. It may be that your intercooler is not flowing efficiently and is sucking up your PSI. Low flow intercooler causes lack on boost to combustion chamber, turning the boost up to compensate only heats the air more, in the end you will chase this scenario all day with no gains until you change the intercooler. The intercooler should cause no more than 2-3psi loss.
65mph 2900 rpm's 10 lbs boost 1000° egt's
Is it the weight of the vehicle n poor aerodynamics that is causing higher egt's?
Maybe you have a restriction in the exhaust causing high back pressure ?
I would also suspect pump timing. A 7.5mm pump will make a bit more noise at idle due to the fast injection, and you think that it's fine but it is actually retarded timing. I don't thunk this is a boost issue, at cruise you should be even below N/A fueling level so you should be fine even with 0 boost IMO.
Maybe you have a restriction in the exhaust causing high back pressure ?
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
If you have a pump like that with an IC and a larger than stock turbo your engine should be producing a fairly large amount of HP compared to stock. Did you drive the car with this engine and the stock IP and then change it? How big was the difference in performance terms?
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
The reason why more air lowers the EGTs is because a diesel that's performing well operates lean of stoich and all of the fuel is consumed by reaction with oxygen. Adding more oxygen therefore doesn't increase the heat but the increased charge air mass means more thermodynamic working fluid as the charge air serves two functions, the oxygen oxidizes the fuel and the rest of the air (nitrogen and unburned oxygen) serves as a thermodynamic working fluid, absorbing the heat of the combustion and expanding.
Increasing the amount of air without increasing the amount of fuel has minimal effect on the energy output of the combustion but more mass to absorb the same amount of energy means less combustion temperature.
Baldur Gislason
More air will always help lower the EGTs, whether or not the cause of high EGTs is a lack of air, bad pump timing or bad injectors.
The reason why more air lowers the EGTs is because a diesel that's performing well operates lean of stoich and all of the fuel is consumed by reaction with oxygen. Adding more oxygen therefore doesn't increase the heat but the increased charge air mass means more thermodynamic working fluid as the charge air serves two functions, the oxygen oxidizes the fuel and the rest of the air (nitrogen and unburned oxygen) serves as a thermodynamic working fluid, absorbing the heat of the combustion and expanding.
Increasing the amount of air without increasing the amount of fuel has minimal effect on the energy output of the combustion but more mass to absorb the same amount of energy means less combustion temperature.
Baldur Gislason
raysorenson
02-07-2016, 10:13 AM #27I wouldn't be surprised to see you've got high drive pressure on that turbo.
Driving now is more compared to a normal vehicle of today's build less the shinning paint n plastic.
I'm vertical happy with the performance.
Yes, it was driven prior to pump swap being the reason for the upgrade, woo hoo yes there's a difference, also changed 5he gearbox & t-case from the Exmod LT77 <230-1.6 with Roverdrive to a R380 with a LT230-1.2.
Driving now is more compared to a normal vehicle of today's build less the shinning paint n plastic.
I'm vertical happy with the performance.
atypicalguy
02-12-2016, 11:25 PM #29Sounds like more boost is in order. Can you just turn it up to 15psi?
I think that your EGT's are mainly to do with fuelling and all the points above, but also, the gearing.
In going from a 1.6 transfer gearing to 1.2, and also moving from the LT77 to the R380 you have increased your 5th gear final drive ratio from 4.30:1 to 3.30:1, thats not including the Roverdrive.
In real world terms, with 31" tyres you're going from 3700 rpm @ 70mph to 2500rpm @ 70mph. This is going to be a lot harder on the engine, and mean to sit at 60mph you're going to be feeding a lot more fuel, with the same amount of cooling from the intercooler, and by the sounds of things the same amount of boost.
If you can get hold of it, a 1.4 transfer box would be the perfect middle ground, but timing and all the other things above are equally relevant.
Scrubs, I'm not an expert in the Mercedes engines, but I do know Land Rovers.
I think that your EGT's are mainly to do with fuelling and all the points above, but also, the gearing.
In going from a 1.6 transfer gearing to 1.2, and also moving from the LT77 to the R380 you have increased your 5th gear final drive ratio from 4.30:1 to 3.30:1, thats not including the Roverdrive.
In real world terms, with 31" tyres you're going from 3700 rpm @ 70mph to 2500rpm @ 70mph. This is going to be a lot harder on the engine, and mean to sit at 60mph you're going to be feeding a lot more fuel, with the same amount of cooling from the intercooler, and by the sounds of things the same amount of boost.
If you can get hold of it, a 1.4 transfer box would be the perfect middle ground, but timing and all the other things above are equally relevant.
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