300km 606.962- Maintenance prior to transplant?
300km 606.962- Maintenance prior to transplant?
I'd like opinions on what "should" be changed while the engine is out and what would be good to change- but may not be necessary?
Here's my current thinking:
While the engine is out-
1- new oil pan gasket (not sure if I should change the rear main seal if it's not leaking?? my inclination is to leave it??)
2- replace timing chain and tensioners?
3- replace drive belt and configure ac compressor & power steering pump
After the engine is in the truck:
1- new oil and filter
2- new fuel filter
3- may replace injector nozzles with Bozio and pop test?
4- may change delivery valve seals?
Anything else I should consider?
I recently purchased a 1998 e300 with om606.962. I'm going to pull the engine to use it in my Ford truck. I don't plan on raising the power level to the point of needing mess with bigger IP elements but a better turbo is likely. The engine has about 300,000km and it runs decent- it knocks a little when really cold at idle but it gets better with RPM or when the engine warms.
I'd like opinions on what "should" be changed while the engine is out and what would be good to change- but may not be necessary?
Here's my current thinking:
While the engine is out-
1- new oil pan gasket (not sure if I should change the rear main seal if it's not leaking?? my inclination is to leave it??)
2- replace timing chain and tensioners?
3- replace drive belt and configure ac compressor & power steering pump
After the engine is in the truck:
1- new oil and filter
2- new fuel filter
3- may replace injector nozzles with Bozio and pop test?
4- may change delivery valve seals?
Anything else I should consider?
was the engine running ? or u just brought it from the junk yard?
if the engine was running and look nice and clean u can evaluate how he is , by listening by using , by smell and dddaa
if it is from a junk yard, i´d suggest removing the head, leak test it cut the face reshape valve seals and valves , slight port it , drill the precups to 2.5mm holes 8 of them. new head gasket , like this u can evaluate how rotten the head assy is!!!
Remove the oil pan, remove a main bearing cam and a rod cap watch wear , a 606 with 300k should not exibit wear!!! if it does well have to measure it.
Before u remove the head , compression test min is 18bar something between 20 and 25 is a good engine. if the compression test was faulty , check rings for damage if damage found hone the block and have new rings in. MB engine was made to replace only what is defective, u can assembler it again with the same gaskets and rings and parts that does not exibit premature damage.
The timing chain is on condition , the tensioner is hydraulic.... and dadda dont touch the chain is not needed!
oil pan gasket .... nep if u dont break it when removing the pan , just reuse it wont leak!
the belts well one day they break , the 606 is one belt for all, so as u like.
delivery valve seals should be replaced when they leak wich is often , replace then with vuiton o ring they last the rest of the engine life.
that is a IDI engine wich means that if the injector is injecting with a good spray patern they are ok , u should leave them as they are, but nevertheles i suggest cleaning and 150Bar opening press. (u wont gain nothing using a bosio oe any other)
this is what i do when using suspected engines from junk yards, and they very often need some repair... nothing big but atention.
regarsd
FD,
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!!!! what ???
was the engine running ? or u just brought it from the junk yard?
if the engine was running and look nice and clean u can evaluate how he is , by listening by using , by smell and dddaa
if it is from a junk yard, i´d suggest removing the head, leak test it cut the face reshape valve seals and valves , slight port it , drill the precups to 2.5mm holes 8 of them. new head gasket , like this u can evaluate how rotten the head assy is!!!
Remove the oil pan, remove a main bearing cam and a rod cap watch wear , a 606 with 300k should not exibit wear!!! if it does well have to measure it.
Before u remove the head , compression test min is 18bar something between 20 and 25 is a good engine. if the compression test was faulty , check rings for damage if damage found hone the block and have new rings in. MB engine was made to replace only what is defective, u can assembler it again with the same gaskets and rings and parts that does not exibit premature damage.
The timing chain is on condition , the tensioner is hydraulic.... and dadda dont touch the chain is not needed!
oil pan gasket .... nep if u dont break it when removing the pan , just reuse it wont leak!
the belts well one day they break , the 606 is one belt for all, so as u like.
delivery valve seals should be replaced when they leak wich is often , replace then with vuiton o ring they last the rest of the engine life.
that is a IDI engine wich means that if the injector is injecting with a good spray patern they are ok , u should leave them as they are, but nevertheles i suggest cleaning and 150Bar opening press. (u wont gain nothing using a bosio oe any other)
this is what i do when using suspected engines from junk yards, and they very often need some repair... nothing big but atention.
regarsd
FD,
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Check glowplugs and pop test injectors, change them if needed. 300k km is not much for 606 and internals should last at least 500-600k. I took valve cover off of my 606 and camshaft was perfectly aligned with crank, so chain wasn't stretched at all. It ofcourse depends on how often previous owner changed oil and what oil was used. My engine has covered 470k km and it runs over 500hp without opening and changing any internal parts, only new parts are injector nozzles and glow plugs. You may change the chain but i've never heard them broke up, especially with stock power and valve springs.
I definitely don't want to pull the head unless there is a reason to. I will do a compression check for sure. My thinking on oil pan gasket /timing chain is- it's easy to do with the engine out- not so easy with the engine installed. But if you think the Mercedes gaskets are reliable and not prone to leak over time- I'll leave them. I've read the timing chain can stretch but I suppose I can verify crank/cam alignment then decide
I was thinking of doing Bosio nozzles not for power but just to bring injector spray pattern and sealing back new specs... I would think 300,000KM might effect injectors... no?
It's REALLY cold here and the car starts very easily. I believe glow plugs are good and I'm almost afraid to remove them with some of the horror stories?
I just want to do the right things to the engine before I re-install.
No- not junk yard. I bought the whole car with a clean running engine but I have no maintenance history so I don't know how the engine was treated. The engine starts easy even in extreme cold. It runs well enough but I hear what I think is injector knock at idle cold. The knock gets much better when the engine warms up or if I rev it up past 1800 RPM so I think it's just the cold.
I definitely don't want to pull the head unless there is a reason to. I will do a compression check for sure. My thinking on oil pan gasket /timing chain is- it's easy to do with the engine out- not so easy with the engine installed. But if you think the Mercedes gaskets are reliable and not prone to leak over time- I'll leave them. I've read the timing chain can stretch but I suppose I can verify crank/cam alignment then decide
I was thinking of doing Bosio nozzles not for power but just to bring injector spray pattern and sealing back new specs... I would think 300,000KM might effect injectors... no?
It's REALLY cold here and the car starts very easily. I believe glow plugs are good and I'm almost afraid to remove them with some of the horror stories?
I just want to do the right things to the engine before I re-install.
If you expect to use the engine for a long time, you could pull the plugs and soak them in special heat resistant anti-seize (like ceramic grease or copper grease). When a plug snaps off you can often save the head by tapping the plug with m6 threads and pulling it out. No need to pull the head.
Test the glowplugs from outside. Tap them with a live 12v wire and if they spark the glowplug consumes power. Also measure resistance. I normally never measure resistance but on the glowplugs you get a pretty good indication.
If you expect to use the engine for a long time, you could pull the plugs and soak them in special heat resistant anti-seize (like ceramic grease or copper grease). When a plug snaps off you can often save the head by tapping the plug with m6 threads and pulling it out. No need to pull the head.
since the engine is running well , it will continue to run well,
MB straight 6 are like any long engine, usually head gasket burns on the 5th cylinder , only when abused.
The IDI injectors are on condition , can be reconditioned only by cleaning, test and continue another 300K
The glow plugs , well there is no horror stories about them , they are a nightmare in a horror scene!!!!
like that , i would continue with the engine and maintain it as it is asking , MB engines are real lasting beasts....
regarsd
FD,
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The thing with the junk yard engines is the fact that they have to store them without fluids , when empty of fluids many things start to degrade... aluminium alloys start to roth , stell startd to rust and so on...,
since the engine is running well , it will continue to run well,
MB straight 6 are like any long engine, usually head gasket burns on the 5th cylinder , only when abused.
The IDI injectors are on condition , can be reconditioned only by cleaning, test and continue another 300K
The glow plugs , well there is no horror stories about them , they are a nightmare in a horror scene!!!!
like that , i would continue with the engine and maintain it as it is asking , MB engines are real lasting beasts....
regarsd
FD,
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(01-28-2016, 11:19 PM)Gelubelea Hello barrote ,
How do you clean the injectors ?
You just need to take them apart as they all unscrew into a few parts, you can simply replace the nozzle etc at this point, but the key thing is that afterwards you need to do a pop test on it and shim it to to 135bar.
with the exception that have to use a special copper brush , and use P3000 polish grease to recover the injector seat.
but if u do like mitch said , they will cost 50€ each , and like i said 10€ all of them.
regards
FD,
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pretty much like mitch said....
with the exception that have to use a special copper brush , and use P3000 polish grease to recover the injector seat.
but if u do like mitch said , they will cost 50€ each , and like i said 10€ all of them.
regards
FD,
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Here is an example of the testing on Mercedessource channel - note that even though the injector can make the engine run it doesn't mean that it's actually working properly, I know that I need to sort mine out at some point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4E28hDgXCw
Generally they are a very simple injector but the nozzle is the key part as that should be 100% perfect and will also need a perfect seal with the engine.
Here is an example of the testing on Mercedessource channel - note that even though the injector can make the engine run it doesn't mean that it's actually working properly, I know that I need to sort mine out at some point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4E28hDgXCw
I had a similar experience with 2 volvo tamd41b engines. They both ran but not great and smoked more than they should. I pop tested, cleaned and even lapped some of the nozzles and it helped on some injectors but was a ton of work. Even after lapping some nozzles, I didn't like the pattern on some and on others, the creak/seal was not crisp so i replaced the nozzles. The new nozzles were SO much better then the lapped nozzles that if it weren't for cost, i would have replaced them all.... but on the Volvo diesels, the nozzles were well over $100 each and I needed 12!!
I've seen the bosio nozzles for the om606 for around $42 US... which I though was pretty reasonable. I need to check Monarch out too as I hadn't heard of them. I don't get great pricing from Bosch but I'm thinking new aftermarket nozzles and shimming to new specs might be a good thing.
Good video m1tch-
I had a similar experience with 2 volvo tamd41b engines. They both ran but not great and smoked more than they should. I pop tested, cleaned and even lapped some of the nozzles and it helped on some injectors but was a ton of work. Even after lapping some nozzles, I didn't like the pattern on some and on others, the creak/seal was not crisp so i replaced the nozzles. The new nozzles were SO much better then the lapped nozzles that if it weren't for cost, i would have replaced them all.... but on the Volvo diesels, the nozzles were well over $100 each and I needed 12!!
I've seen the bosio nozzles for the om606 for around $42 US... which I though was pretty reasonable. I need to check Monarch out too as I hadn't heard of them. I don't get great pricing from Bosch but I'm thinking new aftermarket nozzles and shimming to new specs might be a good thing.
(01-29-2016, 08:25 AM)jav1 Good video m1tch-
I had a similar experience with 2 volvo tamd41b engines. They both ran but not great and smoked more than they should. I pop tested, cleaned and even lapped some of the nozzles and it helped on some injectors but was a ton of work. Even after lapping some nozzles, I didn't like the pattern on some and on others, the creak/seal was not crisp so i replaced the nozzles. The new nozzles were SO much better then the lapped nozzles that if it weren't for cost, i would have replaced them all.... but on the Volvo diesels, the nozzles were well over $100 each and I needed 12!!
I've seen the bosio nozzles for the om606 for around $42 US... which I though was pretty reasonable. I need to check Monarch out too as I hadn't heard of them. I don't get great pricing from Bosch but I'm thinking new aftermarket nozzles and shimming to new specs might be a good thing.
Might be worth researching into them slightly more as well as I believe there are some AMG nozzles that are an upgrade (whilst the injectors are out) - the mercedes mechanical injection was used on both petrol and diesel engines, I believe the OM606 block was actually used in some of the AMG engines due to being so strong.
Just had a quick check and it seems that the Bosio nozzles are slightly larger and increase power slightly, but I believe the Monarch nozzles are slightly better built:
http://www.idparts.com/bosio-injector-no...-3085.html
(01-29-2016, 08:25 AM)jav1 Good video m1tch-
I had a similar experience with 2 volvo tamd41b engines. They both ran but not great and smoked more than they should. I pop tested, cleaned and even lapped some of the nozzles and it helped on some injectors but was a ton of work. Even after lapping some nozzles, I didn't like the pattern on some and on others, the creak/seal was not crisp so i replaced the nozzles. The new nozzles were SO much better then the lapped nozzles that if it weren't for cost, i would have replaced them all.... but on the Volvo diesels, the nozzles were well over $100 each and I needed 12!!
I've seen the bosio nozzles for the om606 for around $42 US... which I though was pretty reasonable. I need to check Monarch out too as I hadn't heard of them. I don't get great pricing from Bosch but I'm thinking new aftermarket nozzles and shimming to new specs might be a good thing.
Might be worth researching into them slightly more as well as I believe there are some AMG nozzles that are an upgrade (whilst the injectors are out) - the mercedes mechanical injection was used on both petrol and diesel engines, I believe the OM606 block was actually used in some of the AMG engines due to being so strong.
Just had a quick check and it seems that the Bosio nozzles are slightly larger and increase power slightly, but I believe the Monarch nozzles are slightly better built:
http://www.idparts.com/bosio-injector-no...-3085.html
The way I read the description is the Bosio's are one size up on "some MB diesel engines" but they appear to be OEM equivalents for the 606. More power would be nice but my real goal for new nozzles is better atomization and seal.
thanks for the link... IDparts is in my back yard and their price is better that I got from Kerma (where I've bought Bosio nozzles in the past). I need to research the monarchs more but I have bosio's in 2 of my tdi's and they've performed well.
The way I read the description is the Bosio's are one size up on "some MB diesel engines" but they appear to be OEM equivalents for the 606. More power would be nice but my real goal for new nozzles is better atomization and seal.
(01-29-2016, 09:19 AM)jav1 thanks for the link... IDparts is in my back yard and their price is better that I got from Kerma (where I've bought Bosio nozzles in the past). I need to research the monarchs more but I have bosio's in 2 of my tdi's and they've performed well.
The way I read the description is the Bosio's are one size up on "some MB diesel engines" but they appear to be OEM equivalents for the 606. More power would be nice but my real goal for new nozzles is better atomization and seal.
I am guessing the NA injector nozzles might be smaller than the turbo injector nozzles then, the main difference in power comes from the high pressure pump though, the stock turbo 6mm elements are ok, but you get a decent step up with the 7.5mm or 8mm elements, the fully mechanical OM603 pump comes with 5.5mm elements as a comparison.
(01-29-2016, 09:19 AM)jav1 thanks for the link... IDparts is in my back yard and their price is better that I got from Kerma (where I've bought Bosio nozzles in the past). I need to research the monarchs more but I have bosio's in 2 of my tdi's and they've performed well.
The way I read the description is the Bosio's are one size up on "some MB diesel engines" but they appear to be OEM equivalents for the 606. More power would be nice but my real goal for new nozzles is better atomization and seal.
I am guessing the NA injector nozzles might be smaller than the turbo injector nozzles then, the main difference in power comes from the high pressure pump though, the stock turbo 6mm elements are ok, but you get a decent step up with the 7.5mm or 8mm elements, the fully mechanical OM603 pump comes with 5.5mm elements as a comparison.
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