dealership blunder
dealership blunder
Friend of mine has a 2005 6-speed wrangler. develops some issues shifting into reverse. First its hard, then impossible to get into reverse.
Under 100,000 mile warranty, so he runs down to the dealership and they drive it around the block. Dealer tech tries to put it in reverse as says "ahh, its your reverse gear, gonna need to order that part, leave the car here for now".
My friend follows this advice and leaves the jeep there for two weeks, while the dealership orders a reverse gear. Hes a little skeptical, so he calls a couple of times asking if they are absolutely sure they diagnosed it, and would they please take a closer look cause he is self employed and cant afford to wait a month for this car. Dealership service adviser tells him
"listen sir, we have expert technicians experienced in advanced transmission diagnosis. Its the reverse gear, when it arrives, we will put the gear in, and you will be on your way"
Gear arrives and for the first time they put the jeep on a lift and look at the transmission. They then call him and state "you have far larger problems, all of your gears are welded together on the shaft and we will need to replace your transmission."
My friends response- "but I DROVE it down there, how can they all be welded together?"
Dealership- "Sir, that is what the technician is telling me, hes surprised himself that it was able to move. One thing is certain, you need a new transmission, this is a catastrophic failure"
After argument, the dealership allows him to drive the jeep to a local jeep expert for a second opinion.
Jeep expert- "I don't know what the issue is, could be a lot of things, but one thing is obvious, your gears are not "welded" together if you can drive just fine except for reverse. Obviously if the gears were welded together, you would not be able to move, the transmission would be locked. You can either pay me to actually fix this problem, or you can let them slam a new transmission in and let them bill the manufacturer. your choice."
My friend a little bemused then drives the "welded" transmission back over to the dealership and tells them to replace it since all of the gears are stuck together. No one questions this and he ends up with a new transmission.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
Figured Id post this amusing transmission story-
Friend of mine has a 2005 6-speed wrangler. develops some issues shifting into reverse. First its hard, then impossible to get into reverse.
Under 100,000 mile warranty, so he runs down to the dealership and they drive it around the block. Dealer tech tries to put it in reverse as says "ahh, its your reverse gear, gonna need to order that part, leave the car here for now".
My friend follows this advice and leaves the jeep there for two weeks, while the dealership orders a reverse gear. Hes a little skeptical, so he calls a couple of times asking if they are absolutely sure they diagnosed it, and would they please take a closer look cause he is self employed and cant afford to wait a month for this car. Dealership service adviser tells him
"listen sir, we have expert technicians experienced in advanced transmission diagnosis. Its the reverse gear, when it arrives, we will put the gear in, and you will be on your way"
Gear arrives and for the first time they put the jeep on a lift and look at the transmission. They then call him and state "you have far larger problems, all of your gears are welded together on the shaft and we will need to replace your transmission."
My friends response- "but I DROVE it down there, how can they all be welded together?"
Dealership- "Sir, that is what the technician is telling me, hes surprised himself that it was able to move. One thing is certain, you need a new transmission, this is a catastrophic failure"
After argument, the dealership allows him to drive the jeep to a local jeep expert for a second opinion.
Jeep expert- "I don't know what the issue is, could be a lot of things, but one thing is obvious, your gears are not "welded" together if you can drive just fine except for reverse. Obviously if the gears were welded together, you would not be able to move, the transmission would be locked. You can either pay me to actually fix this problem, or you can let them slam a new transmission in and let them bill the manufacturer. your choice."
My friend a little bemused then drives the "welded" transmission back over to the dealership and tells them to replace it since all of the gears are stuck together. No one questions this and he ends up with a new transmission.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
rebuilding trans missions takes as long as the book quotes says 10hr + the 8hr R/I it will take them that if not more 18 total?
replacing it pay 8hr it will take them 3hr they make more money and move on to the next profitable job!
the dealer makes more money and the corporation takes it in the A#$
I know this because I use to rebuild them and you have to be very good at it to make money!!! like rebuilding them day in and day out
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
09-14-2009, 08:50 PM #2sound like the expert technician doesn't want to rebuild it! if they will pay to put a new one in the tech will make more money than if he rebuilt it! less hr but more money per hr. mechanics get paid flat rate $15 an hr x the work they do not actual hr! if they do 40hr of work in 2hr they get paid for 40 hrs. And if they think the job is going to suck they don't want to do it! they want jobs that they are good at and can beet the book!
rebuilding trans missions takes as long as the book quotes says 10hr + the 8hr R/I it will take them that if not more 18 total?
replacing it pay 8hr it will take them 3hr they make more money and move on to the next profitable job!
the dealer makes more money and the corporation takes it in the A#$
I know this because I use to rebuild them and you have to be very good at it to make money!!! like rebuilding them day in and day out
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
ForcedInduction
09-15-2009, 03:13 AM
#4
They have to show that its the problem. If they send a good transmission back to HQ they won't get credit for the time/labor/parts.
I was amazed that a dealership would even go so far as to open a transmission, my prediction was that they would call him with some reason and tell him that he needed a new transmission, which ended up happening.
I just found it amusing because typically its the customer who gets screwed by a dealership. In this circumstance, the dealer and manufacturer will get into a pissing contest while the customer gets off scott free with new parts.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
Im willing to bet that they thought the gears of the countershaft, which are pressed or machined into the shaft for the most part were supposed to freely spin. Thats the only way I can explain their diagnosis.
I was amazed that a dealership would even go so far as to open a transmission, my prediction was that they would call him with some reason and tell him that he needed a new transmission, which ended up happening.
I just found it amusing because typically its the customer who gets screwed by a dealership. In this circumstance, the dealer and manufacturer will get into a pissing contest while the customer gets off scott free with new parts.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
09-15-2009, 01:54 PM #6in a word: Awesome...
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
(09-15-2009, 03:13 AM)ForcedInduction They have to show that its the problem. If they send a good transmission back to HQ they won't get credit for the time/labor/parts.
I've never worked at a dealers, but a mate who did for a japanese car make reported a very different proceedure.
Basically fault diagnosed and agreed upon with HQ, then the mechanics had to swap the components over and weren't allowed to open them. Engines, gearboxes etc would have to go back intact.
(09-15-2009, 03:13 AM)ForcedInduction They have to show that its the problem. If they send a good transmission back to HQ they won't get credit for the time/labor/parts.
I've never worked at a dealers, but a mate who did for a japanese car make reported a very different proceedure.
Basically fault diagnosed and agreed upon with HQ, then the mechanics had to swap the components over and weren't allowed to open them. Engines, gearboxes etc would have to go back intact.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
09-15-2009, 06:36 PM #8a guy told me at Toyota they use to just break the parts before they sent them back!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
1979 450SEL 6.9 - stock
1960 220SE
111 tube chassis car/undergoing full restoration. Body work in progress. Merging with a 1996 S500 (119 engine, 722.6 trans, and both subframes)
2005 S55 AMG - stock
1999 SLK230 Kompressor - stock
2006 SLK55 AMG - stock
Well just to throw my 2 cents in, at benz we do all internal automatic trans work in house warranty or not, no transfer case stuff since internal parts are usually not available separate, and as far as manual trans - have not seen one go out yet.
1979 450SEL 6.9 - stock
1960 220SE
111 tube chassis car/undergoing full restoration. Body work in progress. Merging with a 1996 S500 (119 engine, 722.6 trans, and both subframes)
2005 S55 AMG - stock
1999 SLK230 Kompressor - stock
2006 SLK55 AMG - stock
Ive talked to him about it, but its like telling a kid not to eat art paste.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
In jeeps defense, this guy is nearly incapable of driving a manual properly. His single biggest crime is that he never lets it 'find' its way into gear like the rest of the world, he jams the heck out of it before full syncro takes place and was grinding gears before 20,000 miles.
Ive talked to him about it, but its like telling a kid not to eat art paste.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
So he drives the thing around for two weeks, then he can't start the car.
Back to the dealership where it turns out the his engine has now seized somehow. They state that the oil pump failed, and he needs a new engine. Oil was at the correct level, and he has never had a problem or skimped on maintenance.
I don't even know what to think now, except to say that the AMC designed 4.0 straight 6 and its children has the same reputation for longevity as a mercedes diesel. It could be true, and be a freak accident, but the whole thing is fishy.
Now he is rolling around with a new transmission, and a new engine that he states "doesn't feel or sound quite right"
More info on this continuing nightmare.
So he drives the thing around for two weeks, then he can't start the car.
Back to the dealership where it turns out the his engine has now seized somehow. They state that the oil pump failed, and he needs a new engine. Oil was at the correct level, and he has never had a problem or skimped on maintenance.
I don't even know what to think now, except to say that the AMC designed 4.0 straight 6 and its children has the same reputation for longevity as a mercedes diesel. It could be true, and be a freak accident, but the whole thing is fishy.
Now he is rolling around with a new transmission, and a new engine that he states "doesn't feel or sound quite right"
(11-05-2009, 10:10 AM)dropnosky They state that the oil pump failed, and he needs a new engine. Oil was at the correct level, and he has never had a problem or skimped on maintenance.
This is actually very common on early to mid year 2005 4.0s. I also have a 2005 Wrangler (Unlimited). My oil pump failed at ~15k miles (while doing 80 on the freeway). It turns out one particular batch of oil pump drive gears was manufactured incorrectly. Something to do with the metallurgy, but I can't remember if it is the wrong alloy or wrong heat treat (probably heat treat). This results in the gear losing all of its teeth.
-Brian
1983 300TD
1982 240D
1981 280TE
(11-05-2009, 10:10 AM)dropnosky They state that the oil pump failed, and he needs a new engine. Oil was at the correct level, and he has never had a problem or skimped on maintenance.
This is actually very common on early to mid year 2005 4.0s. I also have a 2005 Wrangler (Unlimited). My oil pump failed at ~15k miles (while doing 80 on the freeway). It turns out one particular batch of oil pump drive gears was manufactured incorrectly. Something to do with the metallurgy, but I can't remember if it is the wrong alloy or wrong heat treat (probably heat treat). This results in the gear losing all of its teeth.
-Brian
1983 300TD
1982 240D
1981 280TE
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