4-matic?
4-matic?
11-16-2015, 07:41 AM
#1
Just wondering about this, has anyone fitted a 4matic gearbox to their engine? I noticed that the W210 chassis had the option for it but only LHD - just wondering if anyone has tried to make a 4-matic Superturbodiesel or indeed its pointless as the gearbox will probably explode from the torque? It does look like they were meant for more powerful V8 petrol and diesel engines though.
Hi all,
Just wondering about this, has anyone fitted a 4matic gearbox to their engine? I noticed that the W210 chassis had the option for it but only LHD - just wondering if anyone has tried to make a 4-matic Superturbodiesel or indeed its pointless as the gearbox will probably explode from the torque? It does look like they were meant for more powerful V8 petrol and diesel engines though.
11-16-2015, 08:53 AM
#2
raysorenson
11-16-2015, 08:53 AM #2Turbobandit has done it on gas engines, apparently with good result. I would only consider it with a 722.6.
11-16-2015, 07:43 PM
#3
whipplem104
11-16-2015, 07:43 PM #3There is no 4 matic oil pan for the om606. You could adapt one fairly easily but this is for the w124 with the 722.3 transmission and transfer case. They drive on the left side. The 722.6 has a right side output for the front. I thought about making adapters for the t case to a 722.6 so I could do a 4matic w124 with a 722.6. To much work.
11-16-2015, 10:00 PM
#4
Austincarnut
11-16-2015, 10:00 PM #4the turd 642 in 164s is 4matic but the t case is garbage, actually all of it is garbage
11-17-2015, 02:41 AM
#5
(11-16-2015, 07:43 PM)whipplem104 There is no 4 matic oil pan for the om606. You could adapt one fairly easily but this is for the w124 with the 722.3 transmission and transfer case. They drive on the left side. The 722.6 has a right side output for the front. I thought about making adapters for the t case to a 722.6 so I could do a 4matic w124 with a 722.6. To much work.
Hmm being in the UK means RHD, think it might be a bit too hard to package everything on that side of the car as there is a steering rack/column which interferes with the exhaust as it is (and is why I can't use a few of the cheaper off the shelf exhaust options).
Just thought I would ask about the 4matic as it might be a good way to gain additional traction but as you said, probably a bit too much work!
(11-16-2015, 07:43 PM)whipplem104 There is no 4 matic oil pan for the om606. You could adapt one fairly easily but this is for the w124 with the 722.3 transmission and transfer case. They drive on the left side. The 722.6 has a right side output for the front. I thought about making adapters for the t case to a 722.6 so I could do a 4matic w124 with a 722.6. To much work.
Hmm being in the UK means RHD, think it might be a bit too hard to package everything on that side of the car as there is a steering rack/column which interferes with the exhaust as it is (and is why I can't use a few of the cheaper off the shelf exhaust options).
Just thought I would ask about the 4matic as it might be a good way to gain additional traction but as you said, probably a bit too much work!
11-17-2015, 11:24 AM
#6
(11-17-2015, 02:41 AM)m1tch(11-16-2015, 07:43 PM)whipplem104 There is no 4 matic oil pan for the om606. You could adapt one fairly easily but this is for the w124 with the 722.3 transmission and transfer case. They drive on the left side. The 722.6 has a right side output for the front. I thought about making adapters for the t case to a 722.6 so I could do a 4matic w124 with a 722.6. To much work.
Hmm being in the UK means RHD, think it might be a bit too hard to package everything on that side of the car as there is a steering rack/column which interferes with the exhaust as it is (and is why I can't use a few of the cheaper off the shelf exhaust options).
Just thought I would ask about the 4matic as it might be a good way to gain additional traction but as you said, probably a bit too much work!
I thought about this before because it would be awesome. This is what I came up with (remaining uncertainties in italic):
**The w124 was available with om603 and 4-matic. but it had lots of clutches and control which was unreliable. The 603 sump (with the front diff) fits the 606.
**The later w210 4-matic ditched all the clutches and control and was simply mechanical 4wd with open centre diff. and is reliable, but not sure which engines the w210 4-matic came with. (gearbox and bits compatible with 606?).
**The prop shaft is on the right and looks like the diff and probably might interfere with the steering box
(this is me looking at doing it to my 202).
....So the shopping list...
**Need 603 4-matic sump, diff & half shafts.
*Need w210 4-matic gearbox (is that 722.6?).
**Need W124 4-matic front uprights and suspension bits (is this bolt on to 202 or 210 = only option so got to make fit).
**Got to cut the inner wings & chassis rails for half shaft clearance.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(11-17-2015, 02:41 AM)m1tch(11-16-2015, 07:43 PM)whipplem104 There is no 4 matic oil pan for the om606. You could adapt one fairly easily but this is for the w124 with the 722.3 transmission and transfer case. They drive on the left side. The 722.6 has a right side output for the front. I thought about making adapters for the t case to a 722.6 so I could do a 4matic w124 with a 722.6. To much work.
Hmm being in the UK means RHD, think it might be a bit too hard to package everything on that side of the car as there is a steering rack/column which interferes with the exhaust as it is (and is why I can't use a few of the cheaper off the shelf exhaust options).
Just thought I would ask about the 4matic as it might be a good way to gain additional traction but as you said, probably a bit too much work!
I thought about this before because it would be awesome. This is what I came up with (remaining uncertainties in italic):
**The w124 was available with om603 and 4-matic. but it had lots of clutches and control which was unreliable. The 603 sump (with the front diff) fits the 606.
**The later w210 4-matic ditched all the clutches and control and was simply mechanical 4wd with open centre diff. and is reliable, but not sure which engines the w210 4-matic came with. (gearbox and bits compatible with 606?).
**The prop shaft is on the right and looks like the diff and probably might interfere with the steering box
(this is me looking at doing it to my 202).
....So the shopping list...
**Need 603 4-matic sump, diff & half shafts.
*Need w210 4-matic gearbox (is that 722.6?).
**Need W124 4-matic front uprights and suspension bits (is this bolt on to 202 or 210 = only option so got to make fit).
**Got to cut the inner wings & chassis rails for half shaft clearance.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
11-17-2015, 12:32 PM
#7
So the front driveshaft is on different sides for the w124 and the w210. THey are not going to be compatible. THe suspension is also different. w124 has mcpherson struts and the w202 and w210 have upper wishbone. Different springs and shocks. Nothing is going to be compatible between the chassis. THe w210 only came with 4 matic in the v6 ad v8 cars. If you were to try and do 4matic on a inline engine the only avenue is to use the w124 oil pan with front differential and adapt the w124 transfer case the 722.6 or use a 722.3. Or use something else entirely and do it custom. The w210 came with 4matic front suspension parts but the front shock in the 4matic was a coil over shock and did not have a spring perch like 2 wheel drive cars. There is no buy these parts and bolt it on solution for this. If you wanted a stick shift I think they also made a 4 matic manual diesel in the w124. Custom front axles could be done with the w124 oil pan and inner cv joints and w210 outer cv joints and custom cut shafts.
whipplem104
11-17-2015, 12:32 PM #7Ok,
So the front driveshaft is on different sides for the w124 and the w210. THey are not going to be compatible. THe suspension is also different. w124 has mcpherson struts and the w202 and w210 have upper wishbone. Different springs and shocks. Nothing is going to be compatible between the chassis. THe w210 only came with 4 matic in the v6 ad v8 cars. If you were to try and do 4matic on a inline engine the only avenue is to use the w124 oil pan with front differential and adapt the w124 transfer case the 722.6 or use a 722.3. Or use something else entirely and do it custom. The w210 came with 4matic front suspension parts but the front shock in the 4matic was a coil over shock and did not have a spring perch like 2 wheel drive cars. There is no buy these parts and bolt it on solution for this. If you wanted a stick shift I think they also made a 4 matic manual diesel in the w124. Custom front axles could be done with the w124 oil pan and inner cv joints and w210 outer cv joints and custom cut shafts.
11-18-2015, 08:26 PM
#8
Mmmmm, redneck luxury sedan
1987 Mazda B2200 "outlaw" **planning phase** Chevy 283, Power Pack heads, Edelbrock carb and intake, turbo 350 trans
1985 Mercedes 300D stock for now
You could redneck it, get a Suzuki Samurai T-case or divorce a Land Rover LT230 and run solid axles front and rear.
Mmmmm, redneck luxury sedan
1987 Mazda B2200 "outlaw" **planning phase** Chevy 283, Power Pack heads, Edelbrock carb and intake, turbo 350 trans
1985 Mercedes 300D stock for now
11-19-2015, 08:19 AM
#9
(11-17-2015, 12:32 PM)whipplem104 Ok,
So the front driveshaft is on different sides for the w124 and the w210. THey are not going to be compatible. THe suspension is also different. w124 has mcpherson struts and the w202 and w210 have upper wishbone. Different springs and shocks. Nothing is going to be compatible between the chassis. THe w210 only came with 4 matic in the v6 ad v8 cars. If you were to try and do 4matic on a inline engine the only avenue is to use the w124 oil pan with front differential and adapt the w124 transfer case the 722.6 or use a 722.3. Or use something else entirely and do it custom. The w210 came with 4matic front suspension parts but the front shock in the 4matic was a coil over shock and did not have a spring perch like 2 wheel drive cars. There is no buy these parts and bolt it on solution for this. If you wanted a stick shift I think they also made a 4 matic manual diesel in the w124. Custom front axles could be done with the w124 oil pan and inner cv joints and w210 outer cv joints and custom cut shafts.
So in theory, W210 4matic box (with inline bell housing swapped on), w210 front uprights and suspension arms and everything unsprung. All bolted onto our w202's.
But the w124 / 603 sump has the diff on the wrong side
The transfer case on the w210 is integral by the look of it so there is no hope of making an adapter plate and rotating the tranny case 180 degrees.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(11-17-2015, 12:32 PM)whipplem104 Ok,
So the front driveshaft is on different sides for the w124 and the w210. THey are not going to be compatible. THe suspension is also different. w124 has mcpherson struts and the w202 and w210 have upper wishbone. Different springs and shocks. Nothing is going to be compatible between the chassis. THe w210 only came with 4 matic in the v6 ad v8 cars. If you were to try and do 4matic on a inline engine the only avenue is to use the w124 oil pan with front differential and adapt the w124 transfer case the 722.6 or use a 722.3. Or use something else entirely and do it custom. The w210 came with 4matic front suspension parts but the front shock in the 4matic was a coil over shock and did not have a spring perch like 2 wheel drive cars. There is no buy these parts and bolt it on solution for this. If you wanted a stick shift I think they also made a 4 matic manual diesel in the w124. Custom front axles could be done with the w124 oil pan and inner cv joints and w210 outer cv joints and custom cut shafts.
So in theory, W210 4matic box (with inline bell housing swapped on), w210 front uprights and suspension arms and everything unsprung. All bolted onto our w202's.
But the w124 / 603 sump has the diff on the wrong side
The transfer case on the w210 is integral by the look of it so there is no hope of making an adapter plate and rotating the tranny case 180 degrees.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
11-19-2015, 09:27 AM
#10
The t case bolts onto the transmission. It is not integral. And you cannot just rotate the tcase anyways. There would be no way of filling it or draining it and the oiling would not work correctly. It has holes that would be upside down and a vent.
whipplem104
11-19-2015, 09:27 AM #10Well I do not know if the w210 front suspension will bolt on a 202. But you still have to deal with the shocks and springs which are different.
The t case bolts onto the transmission. It is not integral. And you cannot just rotate the tcase anyways. There would be no way of filling it or draining it and the oiling would not work correctly. It has holes that would be upside down and a vent.
11-19-2015, 10:00 AM
#11
Duncansport
11-19-2015, 10:00 AM #11W202 and 4matic W210 are total diffrent as the 4matic isues a small subframe and the 2wd does not. 202s would need to have the front control arm mounts cut off and a mounting system fabbed up to use the 210 4matic system. If your going that far then just buy a 4matic 203.
11-19-2015, 10:23 AM
#12
whipplem104
11-19-2015, 10:23 AM #12Oh yeah they have different control arms and a different sway bar setup on the 4 matic vs non 4matic 210. Never going on a w202.
11-24-2015, 09:20 AM
#14
whipplem104
11-24-2015, 09:20 AM #14Probably. But regardless unless you are doing this in a w124 chassis with a 722.3 or the stick shift trans. You are going to have to deal with some very expensive hurdles. I also wanted to mention that you will also need one of the two differential ratios for the rear diff to match the front diff. Mostly my point in this thread is that you cannot go mix match 4matic systems from the 210 and the 124 and just make it work from the junk yard. And certainly are not going to put them in a 202.
01-22-2016, 09:33 AM
#16
(scroll half way down)
You would have to live with the fragile w124 gearbox.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate...rev=search
(scroll half way down)
You would have to live with the fragile w124 gearbox.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
01-25-2016, 03:25 AM
#17
(01-22-2016, 09:33 AM)Hario https://translate.google.co.uk/translate...rev=search
(scroll half way down)
You would have to live with the fragile w124 gearbox.
Thanks for that, I think I will stick with just RWD, much simpler lol
(01-22-2016, 09:33 AM)Hario https://translate.google.co.uk/translate...rev=search
(scroll half way down)
You would have to live with the fragile w124 gearbox.
Thanks for that, I think I will stick with just RWD, much simpler lol
02-17-2016, 12:24 PM
#18
(11-16-2015, 07:43 PM)whipplem104 There is no 4 matic oil pan for the om606. You could adapt one fairly easily but this is for the w124 with the 722.3 transmission and transfer case. They drive on the left side. The 722.6 has a right side output for the front. I thought about making adapters for the t case to a 722.6 so I could do a 4matic w124 with a 722.6. To much work.
What about cutting a W124 4matic sump and moving the diff holding assembly to the other side to suit the 722.6?
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(11-16-2015, 07:43 PM)whipplem104 There is no 4 matic oil pan for the om606. You could adapt one fairly easily but this is for the w124 with the 722.3 transmission and transfer case. They drive on the left side. The 722.6 has a right side output for the front. I thought about making adapters for the t case to a 722.6 so I could do a 4matic w124 with a 722.6. To much work.
What about cutting a W124 4matic sump and moving the diff holding assembly to the other side to suit the 722.6?
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
02-17-2016, 04:04 PM
#19
whipplem104
02-17-2016, 04:04 PM #19I just do not see the point. It would be easier to get a front differential and weld the mounts on to the aluminum pan or do a chassis mount for the differential. You still have the engine cradle member to deal with and suspension and shafts etc. All custom made. And if you flip and differential like that it will be upside down. Who is going to spend this kind of money on this kind of setup. Much easier to deal with the transfer case than the front differential anyways.
01-17-2018, 02:20 AM
#20
https://www.ebay.com/itm/W124-300E-24-30...2749.l2649
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
01-17-2018, 02:20 AM #20Old Thread, but there IS this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/W124-300E-24-30...2749.l2649
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
08-24-2018, 12:15 AM
#21
(01-17-2018, 02:20 AM)SurfRodder Old Thread, but there IS this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/W124-300E-24-30...2749.l2649
So I now have one of those om606 / M104 style oil pan diffs in the 2.65 ratio to match my 2.65 rear. The difference between om606 and om603 oil pans is where it bolts to the front timing cover...easy enough to modify if one is inclined to use one of those. I am going to get the AWD center diff for my GS6-53DZ BMW trans (which is a port side drop IIRC) and make the 4matic swap with that.. only issue now is the front motor mounts and K member are quite different for 4matic in w124s. I think I will likely get another wagon that already has 4matic and swap the 606 and trans into that.. itd be a good opportunity to rewire the chassis as well..not a project for the less stubborn in the crowd...
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
08-24-2018, 12:15 AM #21(01-17-2018, 02:20 AM)SurfRodder Old Thread, but there IS this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/W124-300E-24-30...2749.l2649
So I now have one of those om606 / M104 style oil pan diffs in the 2.65 ratio to match my 2.65 rear. The difference between om606 and om603 oil pans is where it bolts to the front timing cover...easy enough to modify if one is inclined to use one of those. I am going to get the AWD center diff for my GS6-53DZ BMW trans (which is a port side drop IIRC) and make the 4matic swap with that.. only issue now is the front motor mounts and K member are quite different for 4matic in w124s. I think I will likely get another wagon that already has 4matic and swap the 606 and trans into that.. itd be a good opportunity to rewire the chassis as well..not a project for the less stubborn in the crowd...
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
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