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87 300SDL
awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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#1
87 300SDL
Hey guys

I've been around for a few years but usually lurking in the shadows. Anyway, I am starting to do "things" to my 87 300SDL. It currently has 163k and overall is in very good shape. 

So far all I have done is swap in a 55 trim T3 from a 91 SDL. I like it, it seems much better than the KKK I took out. I also have a boost controller, set for stock 13.5 psi for now. Oh, and 314 nozzles and the OFV by Greazzer.

I got my hands on a w140 manifold and had a fiasco trying to get that mounted with a 55 trim T3 from the same car. Basically, the turbo was blocked by the spring housing by about 1 inch. Swears were said.

Thinking about it more, how did the 87 euro SDLs fit then????

Anyway, not willing to give up on that manifold, I have just bought an HX30 from Alcaid and am hoping that will fit. If not, I am going to make a flange that goes up about 70 degrees or so to clear the spring housing. Or there is always the crappy stock manifold...

I don't want to mess with the transmission so my goals are basically limited to 90cc of fuel or so. For now, I am just going to turn up the stock pump. I have an intercooler that I may throw in there too, even though I probably won't need it with the hx30. 

I've been wondering though, with the HX30 being way more efficient than the t3, would I be able to break the supposed 175-180 hp limit of the 5.5 elements? GSXR dyno'd his stock turned up w124 and got 170-175 crank hp, and that was with the KKK and stock manifold. I think it should be possible to pull off maybe 185. The HX30 has to be about 4% more efficient at those levels. We will have to see....I don't suppose any of you out there put a holset on your 603 before modding the pump, have you?

I may look into a pump next year, but I have tons of house stuff to spend money on. At least I will have the parts needed to run one if I do decide to go that route. 

Other stuff planned is just new bushings, maybe a 19mm sway bar in the rear, and possibly painting the body panels to match the car.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2017, 01:45 PM by awsrock.)
09-28-2015, 05:44 PM
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MFSuper90 Offline
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#2
RE: 87 300SDL "sorta" super turbo
I have an hx30 on my om17 with a stock adjusted pump, it's did 124 at the wheels on the dyno. So I'd say 175 on a 603 might be plausible
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler Big Grin
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted         
09-28-2015, 06:52 PM
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raysorenson Offline
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#3
RE: 87 300SDL "sorta" super turbo
On the other side of the coin, my 603 is stock with trap ox delete manifold and a 7.5mm 90cc pump. Instant massive increase in power that literally bolts on and will only get better with more mods.

Why the hesitation to get a pump with bigger elements?
09-29-2015, 07:49 AM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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Posts: 176
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Location: Illinois
#4
RE: 87 300SDL "sorta" super turbo
(09-29-2015, 07:49 AM)raysorenson Wrote: On the other side of the coin, my 603 is stock with trap ox delete manifold and a 7.5mm 90cc pump. Instant massive increase in power that literally bolts on and will only get better with more mods.

Why the hesitation to get a pump with bigger elements?

Nice! Do you have the Garrett or KKK turbo?

My hesitation is really just money based....Ideally I would spend 900 on a US made 6mm pump or something like that. You got yours from Diesel Injection Services right? I'd love to have a dieselmeken pump- I'm going to save and sell some stuff over the winter and see how I am in the spring. For what I use the car for though, 180ish hp would be fine. I rarely go above 3000 rpm as it is and am almost content with the power. I do kind of wish I had a 2.47 rear though.
09-29-2015, 12:15 PM
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raysorenson Offline
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#5
RE: 87 300SDL "sorta" super turbo
It's a KKK, wastegate has not been adjusted. I'm probably at or near the 180hp mark. There's just a brown haze from the tailpipe at WOT. It will blow black smoke at the boost transition RPM range, then stops. Torque peak is probably at 3500 rpm then falls off a good bit past 4000. Much more torque off boost too. It's a great car as-is now.

The 7.5mm elements aren't expensive and labor is the same to have either elements installed. The 7.5 elements will have shorter injection duration, which is good for power and lower EGT's. The 7.5mm elements probably make idle louder than 6mm.

Yes, Diesel Injection Services did mine. No complaints.
09-29-2015, 12:37 PM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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Posts: 176
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Location: Illinois
#6
RE: 87 300SDL "sorta" super turbo
(09-29-2015, 12:37 PM)raysorenson Wrote: It's a KKK, wastegate has not been adjusted. I'm probably at or near the 180hp mark. There's just a brown haze from the tailpipe at WOT. It will blow black smoke at the boost transition RPM range, then stops. Torque peak is probably at 3500 rpm then falls off a good bit past 4000. Much more torque off boost too. It's a great car as-is now.

The 7.5mm elements aren't expensive and labor is the same to have either elements installed. The 7.5 elements will have shorter injection duration, which is good for power and lower EGT's. The 7.5mm elements probably make idle louder than 6mm.

Yes, Diesel Injection Services did mine. No complaints.

Well, I should have a 55 trim T3 for sale soon if you are interested...will bolt right up in place of that KKK and be good for about 18-20 psi!

I am going to inquire with DIS, just for planning purposes.
09-29-2015, 12:50 PM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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Posts: 176
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Location: Illinois
#7
RE: 87 300SDL "sorta" super turbo
Just got my HX30 installed, and alas, had to stick with the trap ox manifold. What a disaster...I was almost not able to make it fit! But I got lucky I guess...

I had a friend weld the exhaust piece, it's just a holset flange attached to a 2.75" exhaust coupler (cut down) and then to the stock exhaust attachment. 

Intake tubing is a crappy silicone flange to a reducer pipe to fit stock air filter (for now)

Manifold attachment is made using two rubber couplers from a saab intercooler

Oil drain is a 3/4" heavy duty hose attached to stock drain flanges (cut)


Attached Files Image(s)
   
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2015, 10:30 AM by awsrock.)
11-05-2015, 10:25 AM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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Posts: 176
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Location: Illinois
#8
RE: 87 300SDL "sorta" super turbo
Some more (smaller) pics


Attached Files Image(s)
       
11-05-2015, 11:50 AM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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Posts: 176
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Location: Illinois
#9
RE: 87 300SDL "sorta" super turbo
Updates

Got myself a Herlevi 6mm pump. 90cc, good to 6000 rpm. Hope to install it in the coming weeks on my vacation. Price was very reasonable and they offered up to 115cc with delivery valve mods. It has the RS171 cam? Not sure what that is from, google pointed me towards maybe a 603 from a Gwagen 3.5. Any ideas?

Other things include a small-ish bar and plate intercooler. My HX30 keeps my intake cold even after hard runs with stock fuel, so I don't think I'll need too much of an IC to handle the 90cc. 

I have taken note of most people's dyno results with 603 engines, and it seems that they are all falling around .49 cc per kw (stock is actually .46 cc per kw), so by that measure I could pull off around 240 hp, but I am going to be conservative and hope for 220 since I have the "small" HX30 running the show. There is also a strong trend of torque to be 25% higher than hp, so I am also looking at around 290-310 ft lbs, which is what I am really after. 

On a side note, I found that my turbo-side motor mount is completely flattened out, so I think when I get that fixed, I should be able to swap in the non-trapox manifold I have sitting around. (Turbo wouldn't fit before)

So, I'll stick with the sorta-super turbo title. Maybe 6 years ago in the US it would have been worthy of noting, but not for what most of you are doing. BUT, it's fine for what I want!

Future plans may include 722.6 (may not have a choice there...) and / or 2.47 rear axle, although that would be counter productive if I do end up getting the 722.6. It would be nice to have a 5th gear that is not 1:1
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2016, 04:09 PM by awsrock.)
03-11-2016, 02:50 PM
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MFSuper90 Offline
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#10
RE: 87 300SDL "sorta" super turbo
Cool, I'll be interested to see how it turns out for you!
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler Big Grin
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted         
03-12-2016, 07:58 AM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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Posts: 176
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Location: Illinois
#11
RE: 87 300SDL "sorta" super turbo
Some updates

Got everything done, at least done enough for now. I still have some plans for the future which include the euro manifold, 3" downpipe (and maybe entire exhaust) and possibly S200G turbo. I have the euro manifold but have some fitment issues with it, and will need to make a 90 degree adapter for the turbo as well before I can make it work.

   
HX30 with crap cone filter....it's loud as hell! And yes, still have crap US manifold on there.

   
27x9x3 intercooler fits nicely in bumper. I had to grind off about 1" of some of the inside plastic but oh well. I could probably fit an 11" IC in there without too much showing underneath, but what I have should be fine.

I am taking it easy for now, but really I don't even need to go over 3k rpm, the torque from 2500 and up is awesome. It's been in the upper 80s here for the last few weeks and I have yet to get over 85 C under any circumstance.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2016, 08:24 PM by awsrock.)
07-09-2016, 01:29 PM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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Posts: 176
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Location: Illinois
#12
RE: 87 300SDL "sorta" super turbo
So this S200G I have, I will likely use it but was wondering if anyone else out there has seen one. I know Keino on here has it, but have not heard of anyone else. He claims it starts working around 1700 rpm on his 617 with 130cc. I have way less fuel but have the advantage of another cylinder. I wouldn't mind a bit later boost, my off idle torque is good enough as is (ran without ALDA connected for a few months) I'm hoping that the better manifold will make up for any later boost, obviously I cannot use the US manifold with this turbo...I'm lucky I fit the HX30 in there!

Anyway, It has a twin scroll housing, but I don't know what cm it is. The interesting thing is that each scroll (?) seems to be a different size...drastically. Is that how all twin scrolls are? The casting line down the middle is the divider for each inlet, for reference

   


Normally I would say this would be too much turbo for me, but the turbine isn't too much bigger than the HX30 I have (56/70 vs 52/65) and while the housing is pretty big, it might spool up decently. I am going to try it out and I'll report back. If it is too big,  I might just get myself a bigger pump  Big Grin

Here is the turbine, seems more open than the one on the HX30
   
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2016, 01:50 PM by awsrock.)
07-09-2016, 01:34 PM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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Posts: 176
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Location: Illinois
#13
RE: 87 300SDL
Some updates

Moving up a bit soon: ordered myself a twin scroll manifold from elbe.ee (user Hents99) that should be coming soon. Will be using that with the BW S200G I have sitting around. I'll try it out with my 90cc pump but may upgrade to around 110 in the future, shooting for around 300 hp or so. I thought about trying an S251SX but what I have should be fine. They run about $560 new!

The BW I have seems to be kind of a pre-cursor to the S200SX line. 7 blade compressor wheel (not billet or forged) and a 10 blade turbine that is the same (Generation 3 as some call it) design as the SX and EFR lines, just not the Gamma-Ti material. 

My HX30 starts to spool up around 1800 right now but hits a big wall above 3000 rpm. It may be fuel or exhaust related, who knows. I expect the S200 will spool much later, but honestly even with my IC hose blown off and the turbo providing 0 boost I still have very good power up to 2100 rpm. 

Had some seals done on my trans and was told that all my clutches looked totally fine. Granted, I am not running huge torque numbers, but I should be in the 300-320 ft lb area. Depending on the cost, I may try to have him add more clutches but we'll see, it depends on if I up the fuel or not. But, if I were to get the trans beefed up, why not go for 120 or 130cc right?

I was about to go for a TD05-16 setup but decided in the end that it would kind of limit me to maybe 250hp. That said, I will be selling it on here soon, along with a w140 manifold, my HX30, a few T3s,...I think that is all. 

Before my pump and IC setup, my best MPG to date was 29.5. I beat that over the summer with 31, so overall can't complain...more power and better economy!

Lastly, anyone with a w126 that has a sagging rear, the Lesjofors HD springs raised mine up a good 1.5 inch or so and made the car feel like its on rails again.
01-30-2017, 02:04 PM
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MFSuper90 Offline
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#14
RE: 87 300SDL
Good progress! I think the s200G will be alright, but I believe you will be out of fuel.

Was your hx30 a 44mm compressor?
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler Big Grin
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted         
02-02-2017, 07:22 PM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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#15
RE: 87 300SDL
Oh yeah, I'll definitely be using all of my fuel. Even if I upgrade to 7mm and 110cc.

I do have the 44mm HX30. I got the TD05 thinking I could upgrade it in the future to a GTX 50mm wheel but it turns out my chra does not fit the bigger wheel, so I'd end up basically buying a whole new turbo. Still seems like it would be a good choice for 240-250 hp.
02-02-2017, 08:50 PM
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MFSuper90 Offline
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#16
RE: 87 300SDL
Is your manifold gonna be divided?
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler Big Grin
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted         
02-04-2017, 12:39 PM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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#17
RE: 87 300SDL
Yessir. I hope that will help make the S200 a bit more usable with my moderate fuel
02-04-2017, 02:49 PM
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MFSuper90 Offline
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#18
RE: 87 300SDL
That will help. What's the compressor specs on the s200g?
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler Big Grin
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted         
02-04-2017, 11:35 PM
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awsrock Offline
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#19
RE: 87 300SDL
It's a 54/77 7 blade. The turbine is a 56/70 10 blade. So kind of in between an HX and HY35
02-05-2017, 11:46 AM
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MFSuper90 Offline
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#20
RE: 87 300SDL
I bet that will be a nice charger! I have a s257sxe on my one of my tractors
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler Big Grin
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted         
02-05-2017, 08:59 PM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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#21
RE: 87 300SDL
More updates

Got my manifold, and it is awesome! From Hents99

Finally have some time to start swapping everything out, so took to it today

New manifold vs w140 manifold (which I never used...)
   

Existing set up
   

Turbos! S200G, HX30, TD05-16g 10cm, T3 55 trim
   

Funny how the TD05 flows more than the HX30 while being basically the same size as the T3
   

The manifold does not allow me to point the compressor outlet down, but low and behold a hole existed right where I needed it to be, so I enlarged in an viola
   

AND I had been using this intake tube from a Volvo S80 which seemed to be the perfect fit, but now it is even more of a perfect fit!
   

That's all for now, need to finish the exhaust and fabricate a wastegate actuator bracket. Should be done in a few days
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2017, 04:35 PM by awsrock.)
03-27-2017, 04:34 PM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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Posts: 176
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Location: Illinois
#22
RE: 87 300SDL
Done done done. Took much longer than I had hoped, but the exhaust ended up not lining up how I wanted it, etc.

S200 was smoking pretty heavily and it turned out it needed to be rebuilt. I bought it used, so, chance taken. Here we are all taken apart
   

I threw the TD05 on for fun even though I did not want to use it at all. Took it around the block a few times, seemed ok.
   

Here are some turbine profiles. The HX30 is higher up so it looks bigger. TD05 9 blade (not installed) , s200, HX30
   

Another profile. Man, that HX30 shaft nut is friggin huge. The exducer is 52mm but the nut take up 25mm of that. The 9 blade TD05 is 49mm but only 12mm are lost to the nut.
   

And, here is the finished product
   

There was still some oil smoke on startup but it went away after I drove it. I'll have to keep an eye on that. The oil feed has no restrictor which should be correct, but I may look into a smaller orifice if the smoke persists. 

I need more fuel....

Exhaust is 3" turbo back with a Thrush Hush muffler. Sounds pretty nice, not much louder than stock. My downpipe is touching the body so there is some more noise than there should be, I'll be fixing that soon.
04-04-2017, 05:15 PM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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Posts: 176
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Location: Illinois
#23
RE: 87 300SDL
So I've been driving the new setup for a while and it is night and day. I don't know if it was the manifold, the exhaust or the turbo but holy crap did I have a lot of backpressure with the HX30 and stock US manifold. That set up was ok off idle, came up to boost fast at 2100 and hit a wall at 3000. Now my off boost torque is awesome, boost builds slowly and alda starts to enrich around 2800 but once that happens this thing moves! My only complaint is that in slow traffic 3rd gear is a little weak between 2100 and 2600 but not enough to need to downshift in most cases.

I did a bad 0-60 run and it seems to be around 8 sec, maybe high 7's. Need an actual stopwatch. So, I am probably making around 240 or so hp. I need to check that I have no fuel restrictions.

Next up is new tank screen, 3/8 fuel line and maybe a stronger lift pump spring. I also need to tweak the trans to shift about 300 rpm later, it is shifting at 4800 and I have good power up to at least 5200. For whatever reason, I'm really hell bent on making 260hp with this thing before I get a new pump...I'm actually pretty happy with how it is now but what fun is that?
05-01-2017, 02:23 PM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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Posts: 176
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Location: Illinois
#24
RE: 87 300SDL
Built a dual plenum intake. Was hoping it would help with some off boost torque, and it did. Butt dyno says maybe 10-15 ft lbs which helps with a dead spot I have in 3rd gear around 2100 rpm

   
(This post was last modified: 12-29-2018, 11:18 AM by awsrock.)
12-29-2018, 10:49 AM
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Turbo Offline
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#25
RE: 87 300SDL
Do you have a picture on hints99 manifold 180 degrees turnaround in compare to picture a bow?
I do wonder if my sight is fooling me
01-02-2019, 03:59 PM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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#26
RE: 87 300SDL
That's the only picture I have at the moment with it off of the car. I might have it off again soon so I'll try to take some more. It sits forward due to the spring perch in the w126 bay
01-04-2019, 09:14 AM
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awsrock Offline
300SDL / HX30 / 90cc
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#27
RE: 87 300SDL
(01-02-2019, 03:59 PM)Turbo Wrote: Do you have a picture on hints99 manifold 180 degrees turnaround in compare to picture a bow?
I do wonder if my sight is fooling me

You meant the exhaust manifold right?
01-04-2019, 09:19 AM
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Turbo Offline
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#28
RE: 87 300SDL
yes that is correct
01-04-2019, 12:00 PM
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Turbo Offline
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#29
RE: 87 300SDL
it just look like the exhaust manifold collect 124 to one side of the twin scroll chamber and 356 to the other side and not normally sides divides by 123 to one side of the scroll and 456 to the other side or do I need stronger glasses?
01-07-2019, 01:47 PM
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awsrock Offline
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#30
RE: 87 300SDL
(01-07-2019, 01:47 PM)Turbo Wrote: it just look like the exhaust manifold collect 124 to one side of the twin scroll chamber and 356 to the other side and not normally sides divides by 123 to one side of the scroll and 456 to the other side or do I need stronger glasses?

Yes, your eyes are right. Not sure why, just how he built it. Maybe he has a reason?
01-08-2019, 08:09 AM
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Turbo Offline
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#31
RE: 87 300SDL
as fare as i know the injection order is 1-5-3-6-3-4, never seen a different fingering order on a 6 cylinder engine even if it can be made different.
so if you separate 123 and 456 you get a symmetrical and most different between exhaust pulses and by that also the most uniform flow in each scroll chamber, since this manifold is a twin scroll.

The efficiency of the turbos turbine go down in a twin scroll design by about 3% but it is possible to extract more work to from turbine by the pulsating flow, good flow means long tubes, good response means short tubes but long tubes is not as critical like in petrol engines, since cylinder 1 and 6 is so fare between it makes you think twin turbo but then you shall find a nice one... many things to think about

Yes I am a little bit curious about it, but every one of us make stupid things now and then, even the sun has black spots... If you never make anything wrong you pretty much guess you not doing anything...

Have the last month sitting and thinking of how to build a more optimum exhaust manifold so perhaps I miss something out
01-08-2019, 11:33 AM
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awsrock Offline
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#32
RE: 87 300SDL
Hmm. Well it seems to work fine, I'm low power anyway. Maybe since the flange is forward he wanted to make one of the longer tubes go to that side. Despite how some of the tubes are I have good response from 11cm turbine. Could be better but only 6mm elements
01-08-2019, 10:52 PM
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Turbo Offline
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#33
RE: 87 300SDL
Low load design i do not think it make that much different, it look good, have you asked him?
01-09-2019, 11:01 AM
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awsrock Offline
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#34
RE: 87 300SDL
No, I suppose I should. Does he even come on here anymore? It doesnt seem like many people do, which is too bad because the FB group leaves some to be desired..
01-09-2019, 05:52 PM
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