722.6 rebuild / Upgrades
722.6 rebuild / Upgrades
1 c270cdi
2 e320cdi
1 e55 amg
![[Image: IMAG1585.jpg]](http://s1235.photobucket.com/user/seanyt2/media/Is300d/IMAG1585.jpg.html)
In the middle of building up one of the e320cdi gearbox, one came with single sided the other double sided frictons.
All gearboxes came to me with problems so all need a strip and build for various reasons but ideal for learning and parts
2 of them the usual water in oil, from the radiator problem.
the other two look like oil loss through electrical connector, but bearings and oil pump dont look like they ran dry.
So the one im building is the double sided disc model.
was hoping to build one good box between the amg and cdi box.
Stripped the amg gearbox and removed the plates and frictions.
Received new frictions / bonded piston, bellhousing gasket and electronic connector.
waiting on my sonnax bearing
![[Image: IMAG1584.jpg]](http://s1235.photobucket.com/user/seanyt2/media/Is300d/IMAG1584.jpg.html)
One observations ive noted is the c270cdi and e320cdi contain the same quantity of plates for all packs
The amg gearbox contains the same quantity frictions per pack as the e320cdi Double sided.
but uses the old style bushing on the input shaft and also uses 3.5mm steels on b1 k1 instead of 2.8
Because of the steels being different ive needed to also order a steels kit.
Therefore the rebuild will take longer.
Ive begun measuring the pistons and cages so i can find out where the size difference is between boxes.
I can upload pics if people are interested when im building it back together, i also plan on building one spare box from the single sided boxes i have.
![[Image: IMAG1583.jpg]](http://s1235.photobucket.com/user/seanyt2/media/Is300d/IMAG1583.jpg.html)
Something ive noticed on nearly all boxes regardless of condition is the B2 clutch steels showing wear or heat marks.
So ive had none i could reuse.
I have 4, 722.6 gearboxes
1 c270cdi
2 e320cdi
1 e55 amg
In the middle of building up one of the e320cdi gearbox, one came with single sided the other double sided frictons.
All gearboxes came to me with problems so all need a strip and build for various reasons but ideal for learning and parts
2 of them the usual water in oil, from the radiator problem.
the other two look like oil loss through electrical connector, but bearings and oil pump dont look like they ran dry.
So the one im building is the double sided disc model.
was hoping to build one good box between the amg and cdi box.
Stripped the amg gearbox and removed the plates and frictions.
Received new frictions / bonded piston, bellhousing gasket and electronic connector.
waiting on my sonnax bearing
One observations ive noted is the c270cdi and e320cdi contain the same quantity of plates for all packs
The amg gearbox contains the same quantity frictions per pack as the e320cdi Double sided.
but uses the old style bushing on the input shaft and also uses 3.5mm steels on b1 k1 instead of 2.8
Because of the steels being different ive needed to also order a steels kit.
Therefore the rebuild will take longer.
Ive begun measuring the pistons and cages so i can find out where the size difference is between boxes.
I can upload pics if people are interested when im building it back together, i also plan on building one spare box from the single sided boxes i have.
Something ive noticed on nearly all boxes regardless of condition is the B2 clutch steels showing wear or heat marks.
So ive had none i could reuse.
I have an excel spreadsheet at presesnt im using to play around with different steels and frictions to get more in.
The amg box with 3.5 steels could easily fit more in.
But the other gearboxes can have the B1,K1,K2,K3 clutch packs all upgraded.
by changing some steels to thinner 1.8mm ones available.
Although not sure how good or bad it is to replace the last steel that is generally sized between 4-6.5 to achieve this.
I know gearbox building and upgrades is usually left for some other models but hoping that we can get a good information base going considering most of our cars use this box.
Im also keen on looking at upgrades.
I have an excel spreadsheet at presesnt im using to play around with different steels and frictions to get more in.
The amg box with 3.5 steels could easily fit more in.
But the other gearboxes can have the B1,K1,K2,K3 clutch packs all upgraded.
by changing some steels to thinner 1.8mm ones available.
Although not sure how good or bad it is to replace the last steel that is generally sized between 4-6.5 to achieve this.
I know gearbox building and upgrades is usually left for some other models but hoping that we can get a good information base going considering most of our cars use this box.
Do not replace the top plate with a thinner one it will flex and cause coning of the clutch pack and it will fail. ALso do not remove the spring plate in the bottom because that helps greatly with even pressure distribution. You can mill several pistons down for adding frictions and get a k3 clutch pack housing from the v12 tt transmission. You can build these to handle in excess of 1000lb/ft of torque but you will have to increase pressures. If you are running a standalone that is pretty easy. If not it is more difficult.
Also installing all the 1.8mm plates will give more friction material but it also can cause heating up of the plates and they warp if not done well. THere is a balance and it just takes experience to know what works and what does not long term.
whipplem104
05-20-2015, 06:11 PM #3You can build either way. Single sided or double side frictions. I have switched to using all single sided frictions in all my builds. The biggest determining factor for how many clutches you can put in is piston height and the location of the groove for the snap ring. There are countless configurations of these parts. I always suggest starting with a v8 box. Through the bushing transmission away. Keep the parts that are compatible that hold extra clutches.
Do not replace the top plate with a thinner one it will flex and cause coning of the clutch pack and it will fail. ALso do not remove the spring plate in the bottom because that helps greatly with even pressure distribution. You can mill several pistons down for adding frictions and get a k3 clutch pack housing from the v12 tt transmission. You can build these to handle in excess of 1000lb/ft of torque but you will have to increase pressures. If you are running a standalone that is pretty easy. If not it is more difficult.
Also installing all the 1.8mm plates will give more friction material but it also can cause heating up of the plates and they warp if not done well. THere is a balance and it just takes experience to know what works and what does not long term.
does anyone have a good blueprint or drawing of how these boxes are built?
and what are the price for clutchpack, and what does single sided and double side frictions mean?
id love to do a visit to someone that rebuilds one to get a grip and ask al these stupid questions
anyone have a good guide or something alike on these?
cost of rebuild if one does it oneself, (for parts needed)
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
swampmonkey
05-21-2015, 03:17 AM #4Stupid questions incoming!
does anyone have a good blueprint or drawing of how these boxes are built?
and what are the price for clutchpack, and what does single sided and double side frictions mean?
id love to do a visit to someone that rebuilds one to get a grip and ask al these stupid questions
anyone have a good guide or something alike on these?
cost of rebuild if one does it oneself, (for parts needed)
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
the frictions comes in two styles. early ones had a friction disc with material on both sides and steel discs seperating them
The newer style has material on one side and steel on the opposite and two discs make a pair one with outter teeth the other inner teeth
The V12 tt k3 clutch you refer to.
The epc i checked lists the 722.648 and 722.649 , piston and clutch basket with the same part numbers as the gearboxes i already have.
Is this a different model as id like to look into this after ive built this box and will be building a spare single sided friction one from the other two.
Cheers for the advice whipplem104 it was exactly what i needed answered.
ATSG do a good manual to get you started on rebuilding the gearbox.
the frictions comes in two styles. early ones had a friction disc with material on both sides and steel discs seperating them
The newer style has material on one side and steel on the opposite and two discs make a pair one with outter teeth the other inner teeth
The V12 tt k3 clutch you refer to.
The epc i checked lists the 722.648 and 722.649 , piston and clutch basket with the same part numbers as the gearboxes i already have.
Is this a different model as id like to look into this after ive built this box and will be building a spare single sided friction one from the other two.
Cheers for the advice whipplem104 it was exactly what i needed answered.
It is way taller than most and you can easily put 6 frictions in without milling the piston. I was surprised to find it in an early s500 transmission from like 97-98.
The thing is about these transmissions. Unless you are running a lot of power through one. And by this I mean in excess of 600whp a stock v8 transmission is pretty good. It really depends on what car you are running it in and what tcu is running it more than how many clutches are in it. So do not spend a bunch of money and time trying to improve something that simply does not need it. I would say that reducing the tolerances on the clutch packs with thicker snap rings will make them feel crisper.
Like I said though it is a pressure thing and that solution really depends on what tcu you have running it.
I am of course not suggesting that anyone run a stock small nag vs from a c230 behind big hp that has 2/3 the clutches of a v8 transmission, but I ran one behind 300whp for quite some time that was straight out of a glycol contaminated warranty replacement.
whipplem104
05-21-2015, 08:15 AM #6They did use it on some early v8 models as well. Part number is 140 270 39 28.
It is way taller than most and you can easily put 6 frictions in without milling the piston. I was surprised to find it in an early s500 transmission from like 97-98.
The thing is about these transmissions. Unless you are running a lot of power through one. And by this I mean in excess of 600whp a stock v8 transmission is pretty good. It really depends on what car you are running it in and what tcu is running it more than how many clutches are in it. So do not spend a bunch of money and time trying to improve something that simply does not need it. I would say that reducing the tolerances on the clutch packs with thicker snap rings will make them feel crisper.
Like I said though it is a pressure thing and that solution really depends on what tcu you have running it.
I am of course not suggesting that anyone run a stock small nag vs from a c230 behind big hp that has 2/3 the clutches of a v8 transmission, but I ran one behind 300whp for quite some time that was straight out of a glycol contaminated warranty replacement.
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