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Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
ak47is1337 Offline
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#1
Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
Hey, I've got a 1987 W124 300TD and I want to upgrade the brakes the best that I can, short of buying a custom Brembo kit or finding some Silver Arrow calipers. I have seen some other members swap various other parts in place.

A junkyard not far has the following cars. Prices are the same for all the models so ignore that for a second.

-1998 S600 W140 (brake master cylinder + brake booster?)
-1995 E420 W124
-1990 300SL R129
-1991 300CE-24V W124
-1995 E320 W124 wagon

The rest of them I plan to get brake calipers/rotors/pads for all four wheels, and I'm not opposed to it but...which cars, if any, will I need to take the whole suspension arrangement from to fit with the knuckles? I'd like to avoid it if at all possible, unless the difference from upgrading out of a car that requires the change is barely any against one that does not.

Anyway, my real question is will the W140 S600 brake master/booster fit in my car and which of these will have the most powerful brakes? I'm assuming the best calipers will probably come off the E420, followed by the 300SL, but correct me if I'm wrong.

If it matters at all, I don't plan on keeping stock wheels, I will probably upgrade these to a modern W211 wheel with some spacers if necessary, and I think those are 17's.

Thanks in advance.
04-20-2015, 05:23 PM
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raysorenson Offline
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#2
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
There will be a ball joint/rotor clearance issue with your early lower control arms. Later control arms have a non-replaceable BJ with better clearance. I don't know what the cutoff date is. R129/W201/w124 LCA's all interchange.

The 140 calipers won't work, in case you didn't already know.

The R129 spindles are thicker and use different bearings. Less flex if you autoX or track it. The W201 16v EVO II used the R129 spindles.

320mm rotor setups can fit under 17" wheels if they have caliper clearance. Anything bigger and you need 18's.

190rev has a lot of brake part interchange threads, a sticky too I think.
04-20-2015, 09:13 PM
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ak47is1337 Offline
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#3
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
I will take a look at that resource. Thank you Smile
04-22-2015, 01:29 AM
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ak47is1337 Offline
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#4
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
I'm having a lot of trouble with that website. Can you link me? Sad
04-22-2015, 04:55 PM
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raysorenson Offline
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#5
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
04-22-2015, 07:20 PM
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barrote Offline
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#6
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
if u have a W124 , u should be able to upgrade to the W203, there are few diff in the w203 models but a 300, shoud have the best. i did that in mine. the diff is that my w124 is a .046, wich was assembled in 1995. also have a .126 from 1993 and is the same.
i do know that early models of the w124 share some parts with the 190 model.
good luck
FD,
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04-23-2015, 11:58 AM
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ak47is1337 Offline
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#7
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
What do you mean a 300? You mean C300? or W203.300 ?
04-23-2015, 02:35 PM
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ak47is1337 Offline
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#8
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
(04-22-2015, 07:20 PM)raysorenson Wrote: No prob :-)

http://forum.190rev.net/showthread.php?7...de-Threads

It says I don't have permission even though I am signed in Sad
04-23-2015, 02:38 PM
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barrote Offline
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#9
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
hy,
in europe, and in Portugal as far as i know, the top seller 203 is the 220cdi wich uses brakes similar to the w124 vent brakes.
then we have the 270cdi and the AMG version, as u know AMG usually upgrades the braking system as other features.
i have seen few 203 in gas engine, but i know in the states the w203 was sold as c300, and c320, and some other fancy gas engines.
this high performance cars have the braking system as the 203 c270cdi, wich compared to w 124 is a huge improvement.
and they are the same as SLK models, they do differ to the w204 although is possible to install the both in a w124.
seen from looking at it many MB cars use the same wheel hub, thats why is so easy to swap parts just with minor modifications.
just search in junk yards , and u´ll probably get a good braking improvement, without going after the W124 E400 or 500 wich probably is more expensive.
of course i to love to have the C30 brakes, but that is more tricky to go , whell size at front must be 18 inches to fit.
regards
FD,
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04-24-2015, 05:53 AM
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ak47is1337 Offline
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#10
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
Ah i see. I would follow your advice but the USA didnt get the c270 cdi or the c30 amg thanks to goddamned california. There is a c320 gas in a local yard but i dont really want to pull anything im not sure will fit.

Its actually not that uncommon to find e420's and 400e's here so i will go that route to avoid making adapters (remember my goal here is cheap is and easy)
04-24-2015, 07:00 AM
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tjts1 Offline
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#11
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
There are 2 version of the W124 4 piston brakes that fit inside 15" 8 hole wheels.

295x22mm rotor
294x25mm rotor

The thinner 22mm rotor found on that 91 300ce will fit without changing control arms. I put those brakes on my 87 without issue. I did remove the dust shield tho.

PDF
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/W...brakes.pdf
[Image: 208104.png]
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2015, 11:06 AM by tjts1.)
04-24-2015, 11:02 AM
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barrote Offline
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#12
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
u wont find much easier than that w203 c320 , it is almost bolt on . if u want i can guide u throug the steps.
unless u can find a better choice/price in a W124 E400. wich i can´t see how.
for start u check the calipers, usually they are marked with disk diameter and with, big numbers. in this way u can check out wich ones are better. big does not mean better. the big the diameter the beter. disk with has to do with cooling abilities.
in this case a 320/88 is far better than 29/60.
regards
FD,
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04-24-2015, 11:03 AM
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ak47is1337 Offline
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#13
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
I may take a look at those but the 400E upgrade for the rear wheels (will probably just swap the whole subframe, honestly) plus something else in front are tempting and easy. I will definitely take a look at the 400E front brakes because they are bolt on, however I also have an autocad drawing for a mounting plate to attach ML430 brakes to.

My other question is, will the W140 S600 master cylinder/brake booster fit? I have heard of some people using W140 brake boosters/cylinders so I thought I would ask if anyone knew for sure.
04-25-2015, 03:27 AM
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Duncansport Offline
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#14
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
The V8 sub frame is a good swap. The only downside is the super tall ratio in the diff. 
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04-27-2015, 12:21 PM
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ak47is1337 Offline
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#15
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
I am hopefully going to adapt an e32 BMW 750il diff for the back with it.

Does anyone know if the S600 master cylinder will fit? Is it even worth fitting?
04-27-2015, 02:21 PM
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capflya Offline
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#16
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
(04-27-2015, 02:21 PM)ak47is1337 Wrote: I am hopefully going to adapt an e32 BMW 750il diff for the back with it.

Does anyone know if the S600 master cylinder will fit? Is it even worth fitting?


You can get a master cylinder from an E420/400E - same as 500E which is largest that will bolt on to W124 AFAIK.


'98 E300 Turbo "Juliette" - Brabus wheels and almost all the options a w210 could have
'87 300D Turbo "Roxanne" - #22 head - 400E brakes - EGR Delete - 17" Staggered AMG 5 spoke rims from CLK500 - 5 Spd manual
2007 Chevy 2500HD CCSB Duramax with about 400-500 rwhp depending on the tune I use Big Grin
1983 300D Silver Exterior/Black inside - Sold and will be missed, may we never meet in a PnP.
07-20-2015, 12:24 PM
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ak47is1337 Offline
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#17
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
I think w124performance.com, aka amg_dave on a few forums, said w140 brake masters/boosters fit on the w124's, but dont quote me on that. I know at least some people s500 w140 brake masters will definitely fit but i have heard of needing to bend the firewall a bit. Feel free to correct me if im spewing bullshit ;p
07-20-2015, 12:33 PM
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hents99 Offline
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#18
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
I`d suggest ML430 (2002 and up) brakes. 345x32mm.  I got calipers from junkyard and price was 60€ per caliper or both I don`t remember. Brand new discs approx 50 Euros /pair.  You can use 17" wheels. I made aluminum center pieces but it`s not necessary. W203 C32 AMG discs are with different offset but 345x30mm. 
Using stock brake booster and I have no problems on track. 

[Image: 66337-DSC_0583.jpg]

[Image: 96542-DSC_0405.jpg]

[Image: 79266-DSC_0143.jpg]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.elbe.ee - MB performance parts. 
W201, C126, W203
(This post was last modified: 07-20-2015, 04:14 PM by hents99.)
07-20-2015, 04:10 PM
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m1tch Offline
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#19
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
Has anyone tried simply running stock calipers but fitting braided lines? I know on some of my previous cars the actual calipers were quite large 4 pots but just needed the braided lines to make them work better.
09-06-2015, 05:56 AM
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-Mackan- Offline
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#20
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
(07-20-2015, 04:10 PM)hents99 Wrote: I`d suggest ML430 (2002 and up) brakes. 345x32mm.  I got calipers from junkyard and price was 60€ per caliper or both I don`t remember. Brand new discs approx 50 Euros /pair.  You can use 17" wheels. I made aluminum center pieces but it`s not necessary. W203 C32 AMG discs are with different offset but 345x30mm. 
Using stock brake booster and I have no problems on track. 

[Image: 66337-DSC_0583.jpg]

[Image: 96542-DSC_0405.jpg]

[Image: 79266-DSC_0143.jpg]


Is this a bolt on fit on the w201 and w124?
------------------------------------------------
Cars currently owned:

1993 Mercedes Benz 300TDT W124
1992 Mercedes Benz 500E W124
05-15-2016, 06:27 AM
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SurfRodder Offline
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#21
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
(04-27-2015, 12:21 PM)Duncansport Wrote: The V8 sub frame is a good swap. The only downside is the super tall ratio in the diff. 

+1 on the V-8 rear subframe swap...theres also the issue of the diff being physically larger and different style mounting to subframe.  I ended up getting a 93+ E320 diff (need V-8 rear cover to mount to subframe though) for closer ratio match but with proper case and correct 6 hole BCD (110mm, I think...I may have swapped that from the 300D rear end).  Either way, definitely NOT the 8 hole BCD flex disc setup from the V-8's.  The rear diff ratio is really close to the 300D and you can grab the speedo from the same car.

Bottom line is that with the larger case, you will need a shorter rear half shaft for the V-8 subframe.  There is likely a bolt on solution using factory parts, but I just went custom.
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** AN braided hoses/lines almost everywhere ** powder coated valve cover ** manual climate control ** better stereo ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **

S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **

OBK# 62
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2016, 09:34 PM by SurfRodder.)
05-16-2016, 09:25 PM
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JoeB Offline
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#22
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
Getting back to the topic, the most logical and straightforward ECONOMICAL swap is to simply use w124 24v front callipers & rotors, and the late e320 wagon rear rotor & calliper (vented)
24v rear rotor and calliper is larger diamater but same thickness.

On the front, there is no need to change the LCA. You cut the dust shield back, so your ABS sensor remains. fit the rotor and calliper. bleed.

BUT - and this is a PITA topic to address. "some" - not all, LCA's (early replaceable balljoint versions) will need the casting flash on the outside of the balljoint area ground back a little, otherwise the rotor will contact and score badly. If the wheel bearings are not correctly preloaded, it will also occur.

Braided hoses make a difference to the pedal feel. The best "upgrade" would be to find a wrecked r129 500SL and take the whole front end incl spindle and LCA and rear hub, rotor calliper from it and fit it up. take the m/cyl and booster at the same time. Probably more trouble than you wanted to take on.

but the cheapest option is simply upgrade the front callipers and rotors to the 4 piston w124 24v versions, as they bolt up to what you have on the car and do not significantly increase the unsprung mass.

If you're going to abuse the car's brakes, then the r129 option is better.
05-24-2016, 06:15 PM
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SurfRodder Offline
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#23
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
All of the V-8 w124's and the r129's that I have seen have vented rear discs.

w124performance has a lot of info on the various upgrades and is a must read resource for those looking to do these swaps.
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** AN braided hoses/lines almost everywhere ** powder coated valve cover ** manual climate control ** better stereo ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **

S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **

OBK# 62
09-25-2016, 10:55 AM
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atypicalguy Offline
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#24
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
(05-16-2016, 09:25 PM)SurfRodder Wrote:
(04-27-2015, 12:21 PM)Duncansport Wrote: The V8 sub frame is a good swap. The only downside is the super tall ratio in the diff. 

+1 on the V-8 rear subframe swap...theres also the issue of the diff being physically larger and different style mounting to subframe.  I ended up getting a 93+ E320 diff (need V-8 rear cover to mount to subframe though) for closer ratio match but with proper case and correct 6 hole BCD (110mm, I think...I may have swapped that from the 300D rear end).  Either way, definitely NOT the 8 hole BCD flex disc setup from the V-8's.  The rear diff ratio is really close to the 300D and you can grab the speedo from the same car.

Bottom line is that with the larger case, you will need a shorter rear half shaft for the V-8 subframe.  There is likely a bolt on solution using factory parts, but I just went custom.
Just use r129 2.65 diff and r129 500sl half shafts with v8 subframe.
12-08-2018, 08:38 AM
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atypicalguy Offline
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#25
RE: Best, Easiest Brake Upgrade W124 300TD
(05-24-2016, 06:15 PM)JoeB Wrote: Getting back to the topic,  the most logical and straightforward ECONOMICAL swap is to simply use w124 24v front callipers & rotors, and the late e320 wagon rear rotor & calliper (vented)
24v rear rotor and calliper is larger diamater but same thickness.

On the front, there is no need to change the LCA. You cut the dust shield back, so your ABS sensor remains. fit the rotor and calliper. bleed.

BUT  - and this is a PITA topic to address.   "some" - not all, LCA's (early replaceable balljoint versions) will need the casting flash on the outside of the balljoint area ground back a little, otherwise the rotor will contact and score badly. If the wheel bearings are not correctly preloaded, it will also occur.

Braided hoses make a difference to the pedal feel.  The best "upgrade" would be to find a wrecked r129 500SL and take the whole front end incl spindle and LCA and rear hub, rotor calliper from it and fit it up. take the m/cyl and booster at the same time. Probably more trouble than you wanted to take on.

but the cheapest option is simply upgrade the front callipers and rotors to the 4 piston w124 24v versions, as they bolt up to what you have on the car and do not significantly increase the unsprung mass.

If you're going to abuse the car's brakes, then the r129 option is better.
The late model w124 wagons share the e420 v8 brakes. Cheap and direct upgrade. Master and booster helps but stock will work.

I used r129 booster, early 500e aluminum Brembo 300mm fronts, sl600 rears and 500e master with nice result. Dual booster needs bending lines to fit. I wanted to keep 16” r129 wheels, so 300mm max rotor. Already had the r129 control arms. Did not upgrade spindles (yet).

None of this makes any difference for a street car. Fade only happens on track. 

I got lighter pedal feel and more aggressive braking for given pedal pressure. Less unsprung mass up front. Pretty academic.

the vented late wagon setup is plenty good, stops fine and won’t warp like the earlier non vented stuff.
12-08-2018, 08:50 AM
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