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BMW TDS
whitey1986 Offline
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#1
BMW TDS
Well if it doesn't fall through then I have bought a 325 tds estate from the ebay. Hopefully to pick up on Saturday morning. It already has an endtuning eeprom chip running approximately 175 bhp but obviously that's not enough. Now should I go ahead with bigger pump turbo clutch etc on this engine aim for 300 or 400 hp or attempt om606 conversion taking into consideration I have limited tooling. I do like the om606 idea but I also like things that are not too far out of reach. Suggestions tips pointers etc are greatly appreciated!
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2015, 02:59 PM by whitey1986.)
04-13-2015, 03:12 PM
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CRD4x4 Offline
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#2
RE: BMW TDS
Very nice! I've got my fingers crossed for you!
Idk if it'd work but what about replacing the bmw rotary pump with a 603 inline pump (dieselmeken'd) and collect all the same performance parts you would for a 606 build so that if you end the life of this engine, you could be ready for a 606 replacement.
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
04-13-2015, 03:30 PM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#3
RE: BMW TDS
Well I've had contact from the fella arranged a time and place. I've got to travel from Scotland to Wales by bus! Which I'm not looking forward to lol but hey ho.
That is a champion idea crd. I have a bit of an idea of whats involved in the conversion bell housing rewelding, flywheel from the tds on to the om606 and what about the alternator wiring and fuel supply
04-13-2015, 03:39 PM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#4
RE: BMW TDS
Anyone any idea if the mechanical bmw 324 td pump can be super stroked?
04-16-2015, 07:55 AM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#5
RE: BMW TDS
I suppose as rotary pump its operation is different from inline pump
04-21-2015, 03:04 PM
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rolfts Offline
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#6
RE: BMW TDS
More stroke on a Rotary comes at a cost of floating plunger at higher rpms.
04-21-2015, 04:29 PM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#7
RE: BMW TDS
Has anyone converted the tds to inline m pump? What would be involved how would one get the pump timing matched to the engine timing. If both pumps turn at half engine speed then would it be a case of just having the same sized pulley that came off the tds engine to get it to turn at the same speed?
04-22-2015, 01:38 PM
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rolfts Offline
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#8
RE: BMW TDS
Currently in this proces, oil filter needs relocating.
04-22-2015, 03:56 PM
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erx Offline
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#9
RE: BMW TDS
I think you'll never get 400hp from TDS, maybe 300hp max and even then it will not last long. I've read many forums and tds has weak cylinder head, also common problem is broken crankshaft and they broke even when engine is stock. My friend has stock 325tds and month ago crankshaft broke half between 5th and 6th cyl.
04-22-2015, 04:17 PM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#10
RE: BMW TDS
So its possible then rolfts? Please do elaborate ☺
04-22-2015, 04:18 PM
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rolfts Offline
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#11
RE: BMW TDS
It can be done but i have set my mind on a mpump m57.
04-23-2015, 02:51 AM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#12
RE: BMW TDS
Make use of the direct injection? Would you know how to time the pump to the engine
04-23-2015, 03:23 AM
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Mynä-Diesel Offline
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#13
RE: BMW TDS
There is almost 400hp. This is the 5th summer for this setup so I think that M51 isn't the weakest engine. There is mercedes om603 pump with 7mm elements, MLS headgasket etc.

There is one photo and some Finish story.
http://bimmerparty.m.btcf.fi/forum/showt...51&page=25
06-10-2015, 02:27 PM
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EDH_Performance Offline
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#14
RE: BMW TDS
(06-10-2015, 02:27 PM)Mynä-Diesel Wrote: There is almost 400hp. This is the 5th summer for this setup so I think that M51 isn't the weakest engine. There is mercedes om603 pump with 7mm elements, MLS headgasket etc.

There is one photo and some Finish story.
http://bimmerparty.m.btcf.fi/forum/showt...51&page=25

The only weak with these engines, is the stock headgasket and plastic impeller on some waterpumps...But after you change this with one MLS gasket from gaskettogo.com it will be a strong bastardBig Grin
Cranskshaft,rods and pistons is beefy!

Very nice thread! Big Grin
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2015, 03:16 AM by EDH_Performance.)
06-16-2015, 03:16 AM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#15
RE: BMW TDS
Has anyone had these folk make them a gasket for a tds?
06-16-2015, 05:10 AM
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EDH_Performance Offline
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#16
RE: BMW TDS
(06-16-2015, 05:10 AM)whitey1986 Wrote: Has anyone had these folk make them a gasket for a tds?

I have contacted them pr mail and they had mls for the m51d25 gasket
06-16-2015, 05:40 AM
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rolfts Offline
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#17
RE: BMW TDS
contacted them for the gasket in 4 weeks i should get it. altough i havent blown mine up to 2,5 bar but atleast when my bubble burst il have a good backup.
my dutch pump guy wrecked my 12mm plunger Sad so im rolling with the 10mm head an a cummins cam plate. witch is realy crap i hope i can get the m pump working on my crank case. outher wise i need to have a chat with mr meken so he can sprinkle some magic on my rotary.
im currently having a custom bumpstick made there is a dutch guy who can make what ever you fancy for 450 euro's.
06-22-2015, 01:32 PM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#18
RE: BMW TDS
So with cummins cam plate and 12 mm rotor you can still achieve high revs? Does it fit the electronic pump rolfts? I can't see any reason why it wouldn't where can I get cam plate they seem to be rare
06-22-2015, 01:54 PM
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rolfts Offline
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#19
RE: BMW TDS
no the 12mm would only work properly with less agressive cam plate(needs shimming the 12mm will start to float at 4000rpm with very flat 524td cam plate). but now i am back to 10mm i can use a more agrassive cam plate. altough this is not prefered becous my injection time is way longer with 10mm long stroke. longer injection can be compensated with more static advance but...... and here comes the biggest problem of the rotary, on stock ip housing the max advance is 14 degrees....
06-22-2015, 02:53 PM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#20
RE: BMW TDS
So bigger rotor head is preferred over cam plate. How much advance is advantageous?
06-27-2015, 05:30 PM
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rolfts Offline
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#21
RE: BMW TDS
depending on cam agresiveness 1,00mm is desired with 10mm plunger i have yielded some good results as fa up to 1,15mm
07-29-2015, 04:27 PM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#22
RE: BMW TDS
So how many degrees is each mm advance? So far I have evry mod the pump/ecu and just tightened the wastegate but haven't tested how much boost it's at. It felt quicker with the evry mod and no extra boost so hopefully quicker still with more boost. It already has an upgraded ecu chip too
07-29-2015, 04:42 PM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#23
RE: BMW TDS
Also any idea how much extra boost the tds head gasket can put up with? It's 21 psi standard how much higher can I go
07-30-2015, 10:48 AM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#24
RE: BMW TDS
So soon (tomorrow hopefully) I should be receiving a custom 14mm rotor head and 3 mm camplate. Aiming for the big numbers so I'm on the lookout for an eaton m62 supercharger found on some Mercedes petrol engines. When I have the head off I am going to mill out the exhaust ports and polish them and the same with the combustion precup exit. At that point I'll swap the head and camplate on the pump and replace all gaskets springs etc. I might run a twin pass intercooler one section for the supercharger and the other section for the turbo.
09-06-2015, 12:47 PM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#25
RE: BMW TDS
I'll also replace the in tank pump with something a bit better and put a facet in line pump closer to the diesel pump
09-06-2015, 12:49 PM
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rolfts Offline
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#26
RE: BMW TDS
Interesting post your findings. The 14mm plunger wil be very hard to keep from floating.
09-22-2015, 03:34 AM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#27
RE: BMW TDS
Perhaps, I also bought new spring and mount kit specifically for that rotor head think this will help also plenty pre-pump pressure from a better in tank pump and a supplementary pump will help. The revs won't be going much higher anyway and the camplate and rollers will be getting sprayed with an aerospace grade molybdenum anti friction coating. When I have the head off I will also plasma coat the combustion chamber precup with a very high temperature resistant ceramic coating from my work to keep as much heat in the cylinder doing work.
I wonder if it would be worthwhile doing the piston crowns too? All that heat from the combustion chamber hits one part of the pistons leading to uneven heating so I imagine it would help.
(This post was last modified: 09-22-2015, 04:04 AM by whitey1986.)
09-22-2015, 04:03 AM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#28
RE: BMW TDS
Anyone know the intricacies of rebuilding a ve/vp pump? Any particular part of the pump is have to be careful with? I imagine that the fuel quantity adjuster on top has to come off and back on exactly as it was. Anyone know for sure?
09-30-2015, 07:57 AM
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rolfts Offline
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#29
RE: BMW TDS
Rotor and can can be swapped with just undoing the rotor head from the pump, assemble with some white grease to keep all the bits in place.
10-05-2015, 03:17 PM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#30
RE: BMW TDS
That's great just what I needed to hear. There's a specialist tool set you need for removing the head am I right?
10-05-2015, 03:39 PM
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rolfts Offline
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#31
RE: BMW TDS
mwa easerly milled, and can be done without.
a blocking tool to block the crank in tdc.
also a blocking tool for the camshaft.
a pump puller.
and a ve dail to time it correctly, could also be done with a micrometer and a magnetic clamp.

the puller is something you defenatly need if you want to remove your pump it prevents the sprocket from falling in your cam gear case and makes pushing the pump conus from the sprocket easy.

post your findings i think 14mm wil be to mucht to keep from floating, a 12mm already needs some serious reinforced internals to acomadate the stronger springs. i will try this winter to modifie my pump some more, i also have drawings for a m pump adapter so i can always go full rage quit on the rotery pump.
10-14-2015, 08:14 AM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#32
RE: BMW TDS
Moving closer slowly. Have now purchased walbro and facet high flow pumps. Thinking about eaton m112 instead of m62 want it to be as un-smokey as possible.
10-22-2015, 06:16 PM
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silverzx Offline
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#33
RE: BMW TDS
Don't mean to step on your toes but I have just bought a M21 mechanical pump to fit to a 325TDS.

Am I right in thinking M21's are timing belt driven and M51 are timing chain? Is there any issues when converting the 325TDS to the mechanical M21 pump?

Cheers!

[Image: IMG_7019.jpg]
11-03-2015, 10:20 AM
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rolfts Offline
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#34
RE: BMW TDS
Sprockets are interchangeable. Depending on case opening you need to mill a spacer. Ore on a early engine its a straight fit.
11-04-2015, 06:06 AM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#35
RE: BMW TDS
Is there a particular part number of mechanical pump that's better I gather the pump for 2.4td is better than 2.4d that's 0460406022 versus 0460406047 I need to know as I need to buy one as my electronic pump is knackered and was going to replace with this at some point anyway.
11-15-2015, 09:22 AM
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whitey1986 Offline
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#36
RE: BMW TDS
Bit of a long shot but here goes. Anyone know how many degrees start of injection is for Cummins 6bt direct injection is compared to bmw tds indirect injection. I have a cummins camplate in my pump and have pivoted the pump back as much as possible to increase advance and it runs like a proper tractor. So it's too retarded due to the late injection of direct injection camplate. Any ideas? Otherwise I will slacken chain and advance pump more.
11-23-2015, 06:39 AM
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