help me choose compounding turbos
help me choose compounding turbos
F.R.A.S. recommended I go with a compound turbo setup to have driveable high horsepower. I'm going to use a 7.5 or 8mm fuel pump with a mostly stock OM606t. Looking to make 550-600 horsepower crank when I'm done. VNT's are okay, I will have a controller that can use canbus for the HE351VE and others with a vacuum valve. I DON'T want massive turbo lag as I've never actually driven a turbocharged car and don't want to be disappointed by it.
F.R.A.S. recommended: GT2860R (aka gt28r) a/r 0.63 then the GTX3582R a/r 0,82 with 44mm wastegates before each of them set to 1.2 bar each.
I am a little confused here though: shouldn't the bigger turbo go first? That's what I read on the turbobygarrett website earlier today anyway. I'm just confused about this since wouldn't the first turbo need to flow a lot not to choke the engine out?
Anyway, I'm sure his recommendations are good. Honestly, I'm trying to keep the cashola outlay as low as possible, so are there any junkyard pulls from cars in the US that would work? Turbos from junkyards are less than $100. Maybe 7.3 powerstroke turbo for the big one, and a TD04 for the smaller one? It seems like SAAB's have decent smaller high pressure turbos too.
Open to any ideas/suggestions.
ak47is1337
04-12-2015, 12:24 PM #1Hello everyone,
F.R.A.S. recommended I go with a compound turbo setup to have driveable high horsepower. I'm going to use a 7.5 or 8mm fuel pump with a mostly stock OM606t. Looking to make 550-600 horsepower crank when I'm done. VNT's are okay, I will have a controller that can use canbus for the HE351VE and others with a vacuum valve. I DON'T want massive turbo lag as I've never actually driven a turbocharged car and don't want to be disappointed by it.
F.R.A.S. recommended: GT2860R (aka gt28r) a/r 0.63 then the GTX3582R a/r 0,82 with 44mm wastegates before each of them set to 1.2 bar each.
I am a little confused here though: shouldn't the bigger turbo go first? That's what I read on the turbobygarrett website earlier today anyway. I'm just confused about this since wouldn't the first turbo need to flow a lot not to choke the engine out?
Anyway, I'm sure his recommendations are good. Honestly, I'm trying to keep the cashola outlay as low as possible, so are there any junkyard pulls from cars in the US that would work? Turbos from junkyards are less than $100. Maybe 7.3 powerstroke turbo for the big one, and a TD04 for the smaller one? It seems like SAAB's have decent smaller high pressure turbos too.
Open to any ideas/suggestions.
How old are you? No offence obviously as you may have driven a big NA v8 with far more power but you want 550-600 hp seems like a massive hike from your average non turbo vehicle?
Sorry I can't help with the question you asked but just interested....
Sorry this is completely off topic, but you have never ever driven a car with a turbo charger?
How old are you? No offence obviously as you may have driven a big NA v8 with far more power but you want 550-600 hp seems like a massive hike from your average non turbo vehicle?
Sorry I can't help with the question you asked but just interested....
Regardless, I've driven a few decent sized v6's and a few v8's of friends that didn't really intimidate me, and finally have the time to put together my own build and don't want something stock. I'm 25 now and have the time/money for another car. My first car was a C280 and it always pissed me off how ridiculously slow it was
off topic indeed though, any helpful suggestions?
ak47is1337
04-12-2015, 12:56 PM #3Actually, now that I think about it, it's not true since I forgot I drove my parent's w210 E300 and a friend's SRT-4 caliber to play with the clutch. IIRC the E300 felt really slow compared to my v6 c280
Regardless, I've driven a few decent sized v6's and a few v8's of friends that didn't really intimidate me, and finally have the time to put together my own build and don't want something stock. I'm 25 now and have the time/money for another car. My first car was a C280 and it always pissed me off how ridiculously slow it was
off topic indeed though, any helpful suggestions?
Drive a BMW 530D and then try A BMW535D and you can feel the diffrence betwen an VNT and R2s turbo system, but I am not sure you will find them in the us sicne some nice diesel cars not be find there?
Look at forum like www.tdiclub.com for more tecnical information about these kind of turbo system, if you want to build a geat system it is not done quick or easy, but what do I know
You know the difference between compound, serie turbo system ,secvensiell turbo system and how they work? I am just saying the more you know about this things the better you find a solution that work hopfully well...
it all depend on how well you want it to work, the esiest way is to look to a System that has a Borg Warner R2s system, but even thats not a plug and play solusion
Drive a BMW 530D and then try A BMW535D and you can feel the diffrence betwen an VNT and R2s turbo system, but I am not sure you will find them in the us sicne some nice diesel cars not be find there?
Look at forum like www.tdiclub.com for more tecnical information about these kind of turbo system, if you want to build a geat system it is not done quick or easy, but what do I know
You know the difference between compound, serie turbo system ,secvensiell turbo system and how they work? I am just saying the more you know about this things the better you find a solution that work hopfully well...
I've been doing a lot of research into different setups. I read about them all day to try to choose the best option.
This is what I've found:
- Twin turbos could be a good alternative but require a special equal length 1/2 manifold which I can't buy and am not skilled enough to make.
- A single VNT is probably gonna choke out at high RPM
- one small turbo has the same problem
- one large turbo will be useless before high RPM
- Supercharger + turbo setups are a pain to set up, cause engine inefficiency from turning the belt and may require boost to be routed around the SC at high RPM
Basically, I was thinking a large turbo off a 7.3 Ford powerstroke plus a smaller turbo from a nissan or something in front of it might work. I think a VNT for the small turbo could be cool but possibly too expensive. I've also considered buying the GTX3582R, installing it and driving it around for awhile to see if i really hated the response it gave me.
I took a look at the R2s system video. It looks like a compounding which turns into series at high RPM. Any ideas where to buy my own bypass valves to make such a system myself? Honestly I was planning on just running everything through the smaller turbo through all RPM's but it might be a good idea to bypass it at high RPM's so as to not blow it up.
ak47is1337
04-12-2015, 02:05 PM #5Yes, unfortunately, thanks to california's wonderful diesel emissions laws we usually get the ass-end of diesel cars internationally. This also means there are no 530d transmissions for me to cut in junkyards locally, which makes me angry. We did get the exclusive W126 diesels though!
I've been doing a lot of research into different setups. I read about them all day to try to choose the best option.
This is what I've found:
- Twin turbos could be a good alternative but require a special equal length 1/2 manifold which I can't buy and am not skilled enough to make.
- A single VNT is probably gonna choke out at high RPM
- one small turbo has the same problem
- one large turbo will be useless before high RPM
- Supercharger + turbo setups are a pain to set up, cause engine inefficiency from turning the belt and may require boost to be routed around the SC at high RPM
Basically, I was thinking a large turbo off a 7.3 Ford powerstroke plus a smaller turbo from a nissan or something in front of it might work. I think a VNT for the small turbo could be cool but possibly too expensive. I've also considered buying the GTX3582R, installing it and driving it around for awhile to see if i really hated the response it gave me.
I took a look at the R2s system video. It looks like a compounding which turns into series at high RPM. Any ideas where to buy my own bypass valves to make such a system myself? Honestly I was planning on just running everything through the smaller turbo through all RPM's but it might be a good idea to bypass it at high RPM's so as to not blow it up.
(04-12-2015, 02:05 PM)ak47is1337 Yes, unfortunately, thanks to california's wonderful diesel emissions laws we usually get the ass-end of diesel cars internationally. This also means there are no 530d transmissions for me to cut in junkyards locally, which makes me angry. We did get the exclusive W126 diesels though!
I've been doing a lot of research into different setups. I read about them all day to try to choose the best option.
This is what I've found:
- Twin turbos could be a good alternative but require a special equal length 1/2 manifold which I can't buy and am not skilled enough to make.
- A single VNT is probably gonna choke out at high RPM
- one small turbo has the same problem
- one large turbo will be useless before high RPM
- Supercharger + turbo setups are a pain to set up, cause engine inefficiency from turning the belt and may require boost to be routed around the SC at high RPM
Basically, I was thinking a large turbo off a 7.3 Ford powerstroke plus a smaller turbo from a nissan or something in front of it might work. I think a VNT for the small turbo could be cool but possibly too expensive. I've also considered buying the GTX3582R, installing it and driving it around for awhile to see if i really hated the response it gave me.
I took a look at the R2s system video. It looks like a compounding which turns into series at high RPM. Any ideas where to buy my own bypass valves to make such a system myself? Honestly I was planning on just running everything through the smaller turbo through all RPM's but it might be a good idea to bypass it at high RPM's so as to not blow it up.
You will not touch 550-600hp without a custom exhaust manifold. Just sayin.
The stock manifold is far too restrictive, among other things (exhaust pulses interfering with each other, ect)
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
led-panzer
04-12-2015, 02:19 PM #6(04-12-2015, 02:05 PM)ak47is1337 Yes, unfortunately, thanks to california's wonderful diesel emissions laws we usually get the ass-end of diesel cars internationally. This also means there are no 530d transmissions for me to cut in junkyards locally, which makes me angry. We did get the exclusive W126 diesels though!
I've been doing a lot of research into different setups. I read about them all day to try to choose the best option.
This is what I've found:
- Twin turbos could be a good alternative but require a special equal length 1/2 manifold which I can't buy and am not skilled enough to make.
- A single VNT is probably gonna choke out at high RPM
- one small turbo has the same problem
- one large turbo will be useless before high RPM
- Supercharger + turbo setups are a pain to set up, cause engine inefficiency from turning the belt and may require boost to be routed around the SC at high RPM
Basically, I was thinking a large turbo off a 7.3 Ford powerstroke plus a smaller turbo from a nissan or something in front of it might work. I think a VNT for the small turbo could be cool but possibly too expensive. I've also considered buying the GTX3582R, installing it and driving it around for awhile to see if i really hated the response it gave me.
I took a look at the R2s system video. It looks like a compounding which turns into series at high RPM. Any ideas where to buy my own bypass valves to make such a system myself? Honestly I was planning on just running everything through the smaller turbo through all RPM's but it might be a good idea to bypass it at high RPM's so as to not blow it up.
You will not touch 550-600hp without a custom exhaust manifold. Just sayin.
The stock manifold is far too restrictive, among other things (exhaust pulses interfering with each other, ect)
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
http://www.dieselpumpuk.com/wp-content/u...-Turbo.jpg
On the topic of manifolds though, I saw somebody claimed to have used a BMW M20 turbo manifold the other day and I want to know how it was attached:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXttrhWH7Nk
I did a little research and found M20 manifolds for like $150 USD on ebay so perhaps he took that and welded it to an OM606 flange or something.
ak47is1337
04-12-2015, 02:24 PM #7Oh I totally expect to make my own exhaust manifold, but there's no way with my welding skills I can make 2 perfectly identical 3cyl manifolds like this:
http://www.dieselpumpuk.com/wp-content/u...-Turbo.jpg
On the topic of manifolds though, I saw somebody claimed to have used a BMW M20 turbo manifold the other day and I want to know how it was attached:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXttrhWH7Nk
I did a little research and found M20 manifolds for like $150 USD on ebay so perhaps he took that and welded it to an OM606 flange or something.
one small question, how do u plan to fuel that amount of horsepower?
BTW u can use twin gt2253V, one can flow enough air for 250hp, arranged in set of 3, each blowing their set of cylinders, like 2 3 cylinder engines.
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
hy there,
one small question, how do u plan to fuel that amount of horsepower?
BTW u can use twin gt2253V, one can flow enough air for 250hp, arranged in set of 3, each blowing their set of cylinders, like 2 3 cylinder engines.
regards
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
What is the firing order of the 606 engines? This info is of utmost importance when building a manifold.
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
Since the subject of twin turbos and interfering exhaust gas pulses has come up;
What is the firing order of the 606 engines? This info is of utmost importance when building a manifold.
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
Regarding twins, the only reason to use them is for packaging reasons. A divided inlet turbine housing will do the same thing but give you a more efficient single large compressor.
raysorenson
04-12-2015, 07:48 PM #10You treat an I6 like 2 separate 3 cyls, the front three and the back three. This gives evenly divided exhaust pulses at 240* separation.
Regarding twins, the only reason to use them is for packaging reasons. A divided inlet turbine housing will do the same thing but give you a more efficient single large compressor.
Not sure what you mean here. Also can you link the to the gt2253V info on size, A/R? Do you have 2x3cyl powered gt2253V's, then those power a third gt2253V ?
ak47is1337
04-12-2015, 11:27 PM #11I have talked to Dieselmeken and plan to get either a 7.5 or an 8mm fuel pump. I think I will go with 8 just to have more fuel than I could ever use in the future should I decide to turn it up.
Not sure what you mean here. Also can you link the to the gt2253V info on size, A/R? Do you have 2x3cyl powered gt2253V's, then those power a third gt2253V ?
Twin turbo is just stupid really...
You need a Holset turbo (witch is good on pressure) or a compound setup. Even a Holset has problem doing 3.5bar of boost. But any Chinese crap turbos in a compound setup can do 4bar with ease.
F-tune Performance
![[Image: V-band_om606.jpg]](http://www.f-tune.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/V-band_om606.jpg)
![[Image: GTX3582R.jpg]](http://www.f-tune.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/GTX3582R.jpg)
![[Image: gs6-53dz_gearbox.jpg]](http://www.f-tune.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/gs6-53dz_gearbox.jpg)
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
Problem is not air flow, it's pressure. You can have one big ass billet ball bearing turbo and still have decent spool. But you'll never reach the pressure you need.
Twin turbo is just stupid really...
You need a Holset turbo (witch is good on pressure) or a compound setup. Even a Holset has problem doing 3.5bar of boost. But any Chinese crap turbos in a compound setup can do 4bar with ease.
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
a L6 can be treated as a two L3 , and is quite easy to achieve 250HP from a 3 cyl engine that it is to get 500 from a 6 cyl, at least in a diesel inline with this displacement. the idea is to devide it in two. pretty much like a V6, wich each bank is treated separatly.
turbines are most eficient the hotter the gas go through it. principle of energy conservation.
for VNT control u can PM me.
regards.
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
hy what i meant was that VNT´s usually spoll very fast and are able to 3/3.5 BAR absolute press with less than that in EGP.
a L6 can be treated as a two L3 , and is quite easy to achieve 250HP from a 3 cyl engine that it is to get 500 from a 6 cyl, at least in a diesel inline with this displacement. the idea is to devide it in two. pretty much like a V6, wich each bank is treated separatly.
turbines are most eficient the hotter the gas go through it. principle of energy conservation.
for VNT control u can PM me.
regards.
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
Just thinking out loud here, but is there any use for one of these?
STOCK GARRETT TP38 (on the 7.3)
Compressor wheel inducer diameter: 59.87 mm (60 mm)
Compressor wheel exducer diameter: 80 mm
Compressor housing A/R: 1.10
Turbine wheel inducer diameter: 76.2 mm
Turbine wheel exducer diameter: 69.84 mm (70 mm)
Turbine housing A/R: 1.15
These monsters were used in the 7.3 Ford Powerstroke diesels and are insanely cheap used - like less than $150. I was thinking about pairing it with a SAAB 9-5 aero turbo (TD04 15G I think) for going fast on a budget. Otherwise, eBay clones.
ak47is1337
04-13-2015, 08:31 AM #14Does it matter which turbo goes directly after the exhaust manifold first? It seems like everyone is saying to go with the smaller turbo first to keep it boosting at lower RPMs or basically all the time. At least that's the way I read F.R.A.S.'s recommendation and a few other sources. Maybe I'm crazy but I would think that would put a lot of strain on a small turbo (not to mention the extra PSI through the cold size). Especially since I plan on using either eBay Chinese crap or a junkyard pull.
Just thinking out loud here, but is there any use for one of these?
STOCK GARRETT TP38 (on the 7.3)
Compressor wheel inducer diameter: 59.87 mm (60 mm)
Compressor wheel exducer diameter: 80 mm
Compressor housing A/R: 1.10
Turbine wheel inducer diameter: 76.2 mm
Turbine wheel exducer diameter: 69.84 mm (70 mm)
Turbine housing A/R: 1.15
These monsters were used in the 7.3 Ford Powerstroke diesels and are insanely cheap used - like less than $150. I was thinking about pairing it with a SAAB 9-5 aero turbo (TD04 15G I think) for going fast on a budget. Otherwise, eBay clones.
A good wastegate internal or external is common to keep back pressure in check. You'll see lots of external gates because they flow more than internal gates
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
It works like a two stage air compressor. Small one goes on the manifold, exhaust off the small charger feeds the big charger, big chargers cold side feeds the small chargers cold side. Small chargers cold side goes to the manifold.
A good wastegate internal or external is common to keep back pressure in check. You'll see lots of external gates because they flow more than internal gates
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
ak47is1337
04-13-2015, 09:05 AM #16Yeah F.R.A.S. recommended that I have 2x44mm wastegates, one before each one, and only that small if I am using the internal wastegates on both turbos as well lol
ak47is1337
04-13-2015, 01:02 PM #17any other specific turbo recommendations? what are holset equivalents for the GT2860R (gt28r) a/r 0.63 and GTX3582R 0.82 a/r?
(04-13-2015, 01:02 PM)ak47is1337 any other specific turbo recommendations? what are holset equivalents for the GT2860R (gt28r) a/r 0.63 and GTX3582R 0.82 a/r?
hx30 and hx40-super maybe
You need to make decent boost on the small turbo to be able to drive the big turbo. The SAAB td04-15t#5 is a small turbo when paired with a IDI diesel. Maybe the Volvo td04-16t#6 or #7 is a better choice then. But even that is a bit small. The td04-19t#7 from Volvo or the KKK24 from the Volvo V70/S60 R AWS (300hp) model should be a good option for a junkyard find. (NOT the same as the old ass k24 from Audi).
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
(04-13-2015, 01:02 PM)ak47is1337 any other specific turbo recommendations? what are holset equivalents for the GT2860R (gt28r) a/r 0.63 and GTX3582R 0.82 a/r?
hx30 and hx40-super maybe
You need to make decent boost on the small turbo to be able to drive the big turbo. The SAAB td04-15t#5 is a small turbo when paired with a IDI diesel. Maybe the Volvo td04-16t#6 or #7 is a better choice then. But even that is a bit small. The td04-19t#7 from Volvo or the KKK24 from the Volvo V70/S60 R AWS (300hp) model should be a good option for a junkyard find. (NOT the same as the old ass k24 from Audi).
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
ak47is1337
04-13-2015, 10:20 PM #19Bullocks. It appears the HX30 is quite rare here, along with R series volvos. However HX35's and HY35's cheap and plentiful; are those too big for the first turbo and too small for the second?
This is a superstroker 8mm Dieselmeken job you know. Because without some insane level of fuel you will do a lot of building for nothing
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
hy35 you have a ton of from old Cummins. That would be a good first turbo (hp turbo). Then you can go your big ass Ford TP38
This is a superstroker 8mm Dieselmeken job you know. Because without some insane level of fuel you will do a lot of building for nothing
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
Look at stamsaas`s project, those turbos work good together, hx30 and hx40 super with big exhaust housing
EDH_Performance
04-14-2015, 02:16 AM #21I`ve read somewhere that holset them self compound hx35 wtih hx55, and hx40 with hx60...
Look at stamsaas`s project, those turbos work good together, hx30 and hx40 super with big exhaust housing
Thanks again fpr your advice. If I don't end up buying any products off you I'll have to send you some compensation for your time.
EDH_PERFORMANCE that's interesting, I've never heard of that. Are you sure you haven't confused the Powerstroke 6.0/6.4/6.7 design with it? The newer powerstrokes use a compound turbo set up with a vgt turbo in front of a big guy that is awesome., and as far as i know cummins trucks do not (cummins is the same company as holset)
ak47is1337
04-14-2015, 04:09 AM #22Speaking of which, what is the difference between the regular and the "superstroker" pumps?
Thanks again fpr your advice. If I don't end up buying any products off you I'll have to send you some compensation for your time.
EDH_PERFORMANCE that's interesting, I've never heard of that. Are you sure you haven't confused the Powerstroke 6.0/6.4/6.7 design with it? The newer powerstrokes use a compound turbo set up with a vgt turbo in front of a big guy that is awesome., and as far as i know cummins trucks do not (cummins is the same company as holset)
(04-14-2015, 04:09 AM)ak47is1337 Speaking of which, what is the difference between the regular and the "superstroker" pumps?
Thanks again fpr your advice. If I don't end up buying any products off you I'll have to send you some compensation for your time.
EDH_PERFORMANCE that's interesting, I've never heard of that. Are you sure you haven't confused the Powerstroke 6.0/6.4/6.7 design with it? The newer powerstrokes use a compound turbo set up with a vgt turbo in front of a big guy that is awesome., and as far as i know cummins trucks do not (cummins is the same company as holset)
cummins have some stationary and industrial motors with compound.
EDH_Performance
04-14-2015, 05:31 AM #23(04-14-2015, 04:09 AM)ak47is1337 Speaking of which, what is the difference between the regular and the "superstroker" pumps?
Thanks again fpr your advice. If I don't end up buying any products off you I'll have to send you some compensation for your time.
EDH_PERFORMANCE that's interesting, I've never heard of that. Are you sure you haven't confused the Powerstroke 6.0/6.4/6.7 design with it? The newer powerstrokes use a compound turbo set up with a vgt turbo in front of a big guy that is awesome., and as far as i know cummins trucks do not (cummins is the same company as holset)
cummins have some stationary and industrial motors with compound.
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
Superstroker IP is a pump with a custom camshaft that gives the element a longer stroke = more fuel in less time.
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
(04-14-2015, 04:09 AM)ak47is1337 The newer powerstrokes use a compound turbo set up with a vgt turbo in front of a big guy
The small turbo hot side is in front of the big turbo hot side but the big turbo compressor is in front of the small turbo compressor.
raysorenson
04-14-2015, 08:35 AM #25(04-14-2015, 04:09 AM)ak47is1337 The newer powerstrokes use a compound turbo set up with a vgt turbo in front of a big guy
The small turbo hot side is in front of the big turbo hot side but the big turbo compressor is in front of the small turbo compressor.
Are you saying that because I may use a giant powerstroke turbo or is it because I am aiming for 550+ hp? From browsing through Dieselmeken's facebook page, it seems like others running 7.5/8mm pumps usually don't get anywhere near what I'm aiming for but that could also be turbo related so I'm not sure.
"The small turbo hot side is in front of the big turbo hot side but the big turbo compressor is in front of the small turbo compressor."
yep you're right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7vGCHQAc7M
Also if anyone gives a shit the 1999.5-2003 7.3 Powerstroke's used a smaller GTP38R turbo 1.00 a/r with a different compressor wheel design
ak47is1337
04-14-2015, 11:16 AM #27"This is a superstroker 8mm Dieselmeken job you know. Because without some insane level of fuel you will do a lot of building for nothing"
Are you saying that because I may use a giant powerstroke turbo or is it because I am aiming for 550+ hp? From browsing through Dieselmeken's facebook page, it seems like others running 7.5/8mm pumps usually don't get anywhere near what I'm aiming for but that could also be turbo related so I'm not sure.
"The small turbo hot side is in front of the big turbo hot side but the big turbo compressor is in front of the small turbo compressor."
yep you're right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7vGCHQAc7M
Also if anyone gives a shit the 1999.5-2003 7.3 Powerstroke's used a smaller GTP38R turbo 1.00 a/r with a different compressor wheel design
(04-14-2015, 11:16 AM)ak47is1337 "This is a superstroker 8mm Dieselmeken job you know. Because without some insane level of fuel you will do a lot of building for nothing"
Are you saying that because I may use a giant powerstroke turbo or is it because I am aiming for 550+ hp? From browsing through Dieselmeken's facebook page, it seems like others running 7.5/8mm pumps usually don't get anywhere near what I'm aiming for but that could also be turbo related so I'm not sure.
"The small turbo hot side is in front of the big turbo hot side but the big turbo compressor is in front of the small turbo compressor."
yep you're right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7vGCHQAc7M
Also if anyone gives a shit the 1999.5-2003 7.3 Powerstroke's used a smaller GTP38R turbo 1.00 a/r with a different compressor wheel design
People tend to have a big reserve on there things. Like if you buy a 242cc pump it might be set to 160cc when you get it and then you'll still have problem burning that fuel. 180cc is 100hp/cylinder more or less. If you are gonna use that big turbo with a good match small turbo in compound you WILL be on the far side of 500whp and you will start burning excessive amounts of fuel. What people don't think about is the injection time to deliver these amounts of fuel and the effects of that.
I've been really close to these pumps and have been standing in the test bench at Mr Dieselmeken and checked this out live. There is a competition amongst the dieselguys who can build the IP with the most CC of fuel but that has nothing to do with real life.
If you are aiming to USE the car and to have those 6-700hp or what you will have with a decent setup you don't only need a lot of fuel. You'll need that fuel FAST. Hence the 8mm SS IP
Fast injection = you can burn more fuel and still have less smoke and lower EGT = more power. EGT is both your best friend and your worst enemy so take car of him
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
(04-14-2015, 11:16 AM)ak47is1337 "This is a superstroker 8mm Dieselmeken job you know. Because without some insane level of fuel you will do a lot of building for nothing"
Are you saying that because I may use a giant powerstroke turbo or is it because I am aiming for 550+ hp? From browsing through Dieselmeken's facebook page, it seems like others running 7.5/8mm pumps usually don't get anywhere near what I'm aiming for but that could also be turbo related so I'm not sure.
"The small turbo hot side is in front of the big turbo hot side but the big turbo compressor is in front of the small turbo compressor."
yep you're right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7vGCHQAc7M
Also if anyone gives a shit the 1999.5-2003 7.3 Powerstroke's used a smaller GTP38R turbo 1.00 a/r with a different compressor wheel design
People tend to have a big reserve on there things. Like if you buy a 242cc pump it might be set to 160cc when you get it and then you'll still have problem burning that fuel. 180cc is 100hp/cylinder more or less. If you are gonna use that big turbo with a good match small turbo in compound you WILL be on the far side of 500whp and you will start burning excessive amounts of fuel. What people don't think about is the injection time to deliver these amounts of fuel and the effects of that.
I've been really close to these pumps and have been standing in the test bench at Mr Dieselmeken and checked this out live. There is a competition amongst the dieselguys who can build the IP with the most CC of fuel but that has nothing to do with real life.
If you are aiming to USE the car and to have those 6-700hp or what you will have with a decent setup you don't only need a lot of fuel. You'll need that fuel FAST. Hence the 8mm SS IP
Fast injection = you can burn more fuel and still have less smoke and lower EGT = more power. EGT is both your best friend and your worst enemy so take car of him
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
180cc with the regular pump (the OM603 version) injects more slowly than 180cc from the SS and that will negatively effect my EGT's and create more smoke? Honestly, watching videos of smoking OM606's im a little worried about the police bothering me which is one reason I want compounding. Will a giant water to air intercooler solution be enough to help with EGT's?
The step up to the SS pump is very steep in terms of price unfortunately. It would definitely stay turned down until I had the cash for another big refurbishment. The other thing that keeps me from going much beyond 550 HP is that I will begin to worry about the engine internals getting destroyed and then I will need to start thinking about pistons/connecting rods.
ak47is1337
04-14-2015, 02:57 PM #29So what you are saying is:
180cc with the regular pump (the OM603 version) injects more slowly than 180cc from the SS and that will negatively effect my EGT's and create more smoke? Honestly, watching videos of smoking OM606's im a little worried about the police bothering me which is one reason I want compounding. Will a giant water to air intercooler solution be enough to help with EGT's?
The step up to the SS pump is very steep in terms of price unfortunately. It would definitely stay turned down until I had the cash for another big refurbishment. The other thing that keeps me from going much beyond 550 HP is that I will begin to worry about the engine internals getting destroyed and then I will need to start thinking about pistons/connecting rods.
500whp is really ok with the normal 8mm IP, it's not that. It's just that there is a better alternative out there and if one can afford that that's the way to go.
Internally you can do like 550hp with n/a rods so with a turbo engine you don't have to worry
You keep in mind, 550hp is like 3.5bar of boost (49psi).
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
om603 or om606 mechanical IP is no major difference really when it comes to this. But yea faster injection is less smoke and cleaner burn on the same amount of fuel. It WILL always smoke as FU*K before you hit maximum boost. The ALDA starts to open at 0.6bar of boost. So either you keep it under 0.6bar or at full boost to avoid smoke. Doing freeway overtake will make the sun go down for a couple of seconds
500whp is really ok with the normal 8mm IP, it's not that. It's just that there is a better alternative out there and if one can afford that that's the way to go.
Internally you can do like 550hp with n/a rods so with a turbo engine you don't have to worry You keep in mind, 550hp is like 3.5bar of boost (49psi).
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
"550hp is like 3.5bar of boost (49psi)."
holy fck that is going to sound awesome lol
ak47is1337
04-15-2015, 10:19 AM #31I see. I suppose the ALDA can't be adjusted to kick in at a later boost pressure then? And if 500 horsepower is okay with the regular 8mm, how about 550 or a little more? :o
"550hp is like 3.5bar of boost (49psi)."
holy fck that is going to sound awesome lol
550bhp = 500whp more or less so you'll be fine. And sure you can do 600 and maybe even 650hp to but as I said. If you can afford the SS pump you'll be better of.
Live on coupons for a couple of month eating ketchup soup
That's how it's done
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
If you adjust the ALDA to higher boost you will not get any more boost. Boost comes out of fuel so there is no substitute for a little smoke
550bhp = 500whp more or less so you'll be fine. And sure you can do 600 and maybe even 650hp to but as I said. If you can afford the SS pump you'll be better of.
Live on coupons for a couple of month eating ketchup soup That's how it's done
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
The powerstroke thing could work but the garret gtp38 is not even very efficient anyway and its difficult to find a good cheap used large turbo. Its like metal sleeve bearing based or something and lots of powerstroke guys upgrade it to the GTP38r for ball bearings. I may try it for awhile before I get the super HX40 though because they are only $100 used
who knows, maybe it will be really effective. It'll be fun to play with either way.I also considered the he351ve but they are expensive and i am worried about failure.
ak47is1337
04-16-2015, 06:24 AM #33Ok fair enough. The SS is probably worth it then. For US Americans it runs about $1500 without shipping or the core unit since we don't need to pay taxes. I think I will probably go hx30 + super hx40, as the hx30 is cheap used (I will install that while I wait for the SS) and then after I have SS i might as well get a good proven turbo once I have the money.
The powerstroke thing could work but the garret gtp38 is not even very efficient anyway and its difficult to find a good cheap used large turbo. Its like metal sleeve bearing based or something and lots of powerstroke guys upgrade it to the GTP38r for ball bearings. I may try it for awhile before I get the super HX40 though because they are only $100 used who knows, maybe it will be really effective. It'll be fun to play with either way.
I also considered the he351ve but they are expensive and i am worried about failure.
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
04-21-2015, 03:11 PM #34550-600 horsepower seems awfully ambitious. If you go that large pretty much everything behind it is gonna break, and once you get up to those levels I think you can expect engine life to go down dramatically without some serious internal mods. Even with modest power increases these cars do great, I'd say 250-300hp and it would already drive better than most modern cars and could still probably keep up with some stock mustangs and Camaros, and would cost a lot less to get there than 600hp
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
There's a big difference in 500hp at 6000rpm and 500hp at 3500rpm
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I have no experience with a om606, but what I wonder about is how the rods hold up to that power when boost is coming on so quick. Most setups I see have a single big charger, thus putting the boost late into the rpm.
There's a big difference in 500hp at 6000rpm and 500hp at 3500rpm
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
1 piece driveline conversion? Ford 8.8?
1981 Mercedes 300TD Lowered 4 speed manual Holset HX30
mike-81-240d
04-22-2015, 03:44 AM #36600hp? Better be beefing up the trans and driveline.
1 piece driveline conversion? Ford 8.8?
1981 Mercedes 300TD Lowered 4 speed manual Holset HX30
I think you may underestimate the amount of work required to "try" different turbos. Each turbo is pretty unique.
atypicalguy
04-22-2015, 10:44 AM #38Maybe he341ve for the small turbo?
I think you may underestimate the amount of work required to "try" different turbos. Each turbo is pretty unique.
(04-21-2015, 03:11 PM)sassparilla_kid 550-600 horsepower seems awfully ambitious. If you go that large pretty much everything behind it is gonna break, and once you get up to those levels I think you can expect engine life to go down dramatically without some serious internal mods. Even with modest power increases these cars do great, I'd say 250-300hp and it would already drive better than most modern cars and could still probably keep up with some stock mustangs and Camaros, and would cost a lot less to get there than 600hp
I think the point I'm trying to make is I don't want to KEEP UP
(04-22-2015, 03:44 AM)mike-81-240d 600hp? Better be beefing up the trans and driveline.
1 piece driveline conversion? Ford 8.8?
My plans are as follows:
-1998 S600 722.6
-BMW E32 750il rear end
-Weld the two different driveshafts together with something made in the lathe between them; the same may be done for the axle. I may have to have a custom propeller shaft/axles made; we will see about that.
Triple compounding would be a lot of work, damn. Compounding actually isn't that cost effective when you figure you need two good sized wastegates, but I really see no other way to make low RPM power other than a supercharger, which is arguably even more complicated. It would be really cool though! This is a car I plan to drive all the time so super-high RPM boost is just going to be annoying if nothing else. I think I will probably use an HX30W or HY35 for the first turbo and then some larger turbo off of a truck I find - probably something like an HX52 because one is in my area cheap used. Yes I agree with the sentiment that it will be a lot of fiddly work to fit the things on each time. I am probably just going to go ahead and take everything out of the side of the hood like the battery, boil over container, washer fluid, etc.
ak47is1337
04-22-2015, 04:00 PM #40(04-21-2015, 03:11 PM)sassparilla_kid 550-600 horsepower seems awfully ambitious. If you go that large pretty much everything behind it is gonna break, and once you get up to those levels I think you can expect engine life to go down dramatically without some serious internal mods. Even with modest power increases these cars do great, I'd say 250-300hp and it would already drive better than most modern cars and could still probably keep up with some stock mustangs and Camaros, and would cost a lot less to get there than 600hp
I think the point I'm trying to make is I don't want to KEEP UP
(04-22-2015, 03:44 AM)mike-81-240d 600hp? Better be beefing up the trans and driveline.
1 piece driveline conversion? Ford 8.8?
My plans are as follows:
-1998 S600 722.6
-BMW E32 750il rear end
-Weld the two different driveshafts together with something made in the lathe between them; the same may be done for the axle. I may have to have a custom propeller shaft/axles made; we will see about that.
Triple compounding would be a lot of work, damn. Compounding actually isn't that cost effective when you figure you need two good sized wastegates, but I really see no other way to make low RPM power other than a supercharger, which is arguably even more complicated. It would be really cool though! This is a car I plan to drive all the time so super-high RPM boost is just going to be annoying if nothing else. I think I will probably use an HX30W or HY35 for the first turbo and then some larger turbo off of a truck I find - probably something like an HX52 because one is in my area cheap used. Yes I agree with the sentiment that it will be a lot of fiddly work to fit the things on each time. I am probably just going to go ahead and take everything out of the side of the hood like the battery, boil over container, washer fluid, etc.
Sleek~silver602
05-09-2015, 03:25 PM #42well a dodge charger has the same trans as this car so thats an option to not pay the used s600 cost iirc, also there is a company that makes custom drive shafts for the charger that can make you a ujoint plated drive shaft (a plate mounts the the flex disc mount a then has a ujoint mounted to that) which is about 650 iirc, idk if you have understood what the others have said but compounding is the process of using a small turbo to light off the line and a larger atmosphere turbo to bring in more once it lights. one does not help the other they are separate just inline with each other. small turbo mounts to the manifold then a hot pipe goes to the larger turbo then the exhaust hooks up to there, the air filter is mounted to the large turbo with the comp outlet of the large turbo flowing into the intake of the small turbo. they really are amazing when hooked up right and sent up well. I had my HE351 with a 75mm on top for my dodge cummins and i could pull a house down with how much constant power it had. with this i will say about compounds is you will reek havoc on the drive line.... having a big single is one thing but to have gobbs of air wherever in the RPM range you will find your weakest links one after the other tell they are fixed
(05-09-2015, 03:25 PM)Sleek~silver602 well a dodge charger has the same trans as this car so thats an option to not pay the used s600 cost iirc, also there is a company that makes custom drive shafts for the charger that can make you a ujoint plated drive shaft (a plate mounts the the flex disc mount a then has a ujoint mounted to that) which is about 650 iirc, idk if you have understood what the others have said but compounding is the process of using a small turbo to light off the line and a larger atmosphere turbo to bring in more once it lights. one does not help the other they are separate just inline with each other. small turbo mounts to the manifold then a hot pipe goes to the larger turbo then the exhaust hooks up to there, the air filter is mounted to the large turbo with the comp outlet of the large turbo flowing into the intake of the small turbo. they really are amazing when hooked up right and sent up well. I had my HE351 with a 75mm on top for my dodge cummins and i could pull a house down with how much constant power it had. with this i will say about compounds is you will reek havoc on the drive line.... having a big single is one thing but to have gobbs of air wherever in the RPM range you will find your weakest links one after the other tell they are fixed
The 722.6's used in auto chryslers are a little different from the v12 722.6 which is larger. I'm not sure if they are stronger/the same but I wouldn't think so. The only reason I plan to use the v12 version is because I know where to source one cheaply. what is the benefit of getting rid of the flex disc?
I understand how the compounding system works. i am hoping to use a 38mm wastegate that vents into the large turbo's hot side, then a 60mm wastegate to vent off from that. the drivetrain will be first swapped with the back end of an E420 w124, and if that doesn't stand up to the power I will try to work something out using a e32 750il LSD differential. i am partial to the E420 idea though because I get a really low ratio of 2.24 to help with fuel efficiency on the highway.
ak47is1337
05-11-2015, 06:00 AM #43(05-09-2015, 03:25 PM)Sleek~silver602 well a dodge charger has the same trans as this car so thats an option to not pay the used s600 cost iirc, also there is a company that makes custom drive shafts for the charger that can make you a ujoint plated drive shaft (a plate mounts the the flex disc mount a then has a ujoint mounted to that) which is about 650 iirc, idk if you have understood what the others have said but compounding is the process of using a small turbo to light off the line and a larger atmosphere turbo to bring in more once it lights. one does not help the other they are separate just inline with each other. small turbo mounts to the manifold then a hot pipe goes to the larger turbo then the exhaust hooks up to there, the air filter is mounted to the large turbo with the comp outlet of the large turbo flowing into the intake of the small turbo. they really are amazing when hooked up right and sent up well. I had my HE351 with a 75mm on top for my dodge cummins and i could pull a house down with how much constant power it had. with this i will say about compounds is you will reek havoc on the drive line.... having a big single is one thing but to have gobbs of air wherever in the RPM range you will find your weakest links one after the other tell they are fixed
The 722.6's used in auto chryslers are a little different from the v12 722.6 which is larger. I'm not sure if they are stronger/the same but I wouldn't think so. The only reason I plan to use the v12 version is because I know where to source one cheaply. what is the benefit of getting rid of the flex disc?
I understand how the compounding system works. i am hoping to use a 38mm wastegate that vents into the large turbo's hot side, then a 60mm wastegate to vent off from that. the drivetrain will be first swapped with the back end of an E420 w124, and if that doesn't stand up to the power I will try to work something out using a e32 750il LSD differential. i am partial to the E420 idea though because I get a really low ratio of 2.24 to help with fuel efficiency on the highway.
(05-11-2015, 06:00 AM)ak47is1337(05-09-2015, 03:25 PM)Sleek~silver602 well a dodge charger has the same trans as this car so thats an option to not pay the used s600 cost iirc, also there is a company that makes custom drive shafts for the charger that can make you a ujoint plated drive shaft (a plate mounts the the flex disc mount a then has a ujoint mounted to that) which is about 650 iirc, idk if you have understood what the others have said but compounding is the process of using a small turbo to light off the line and a larger atmosphere turbo to bring in more once it lights. one does not help the other they are separate just inline with each other. small turbo mounts to the manifold then a hot pipe goes to the larger turbo then the exhaust hooks up to there, the air filter is mounted to the large turbo with the comp outlet of the large turbo flowing into the intake of the small turbo. they really are amazing when hooked up right and sent up well. I had my HE351 with a 75mm on top for my dodge cummins and i could pull a house down with how much constant power it had. with this i will say about compounds is you will reek havoc on the drive line.... having a big single is one thing but to have gobbs of air wherever in the RPM range you will find your weakest links one after the other tell they are fixed
The 722.6's used in auto chryslers are a little different from the v12 722.6 which is larger. I'm not sure if they are stronger/the same but I wouldn't think so. The only reason I plan to use the v12 version is because I know where to source one cheaply. what is the benefit of getting rid of the flex disc?
I understand how the compounding system works. i am hoping to use a 38mm wastegate that vents into the large turbo's hot side, then a 60mm wastegate to vent off from that. the drivetrain will be first swapped with the back end of an E420 w124, and if that doesn't stand up to the power I will try to work something out using a e32 750il LSD differential. i am partial to the E420 idea though because I get a really low ratio of 2.24 to help with fuel efficiency on the highway.
Just a thought but you may want to use the 60mm to vent past the small turbo and the 38mm to vent past the large turbo. As they are both handling the same exhaust gas volume but the small turbo's turbine is obviously smaller, read: more of a restriction.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
(05-11-2015, 06:00 AM)ak47is1337(05-09-2015, 03:25 PM)Sleek~silver602 well a dodge charger has the same trans as this car so thats an option to not pay the used s600 cost iirc, also there is a company that makes custom drive shafts for the charger that can make you a ujoint plated drive shaft (a plate mounts the the flex disc mount a then has a ujoint mounted to that) which is about 650 iirc, idk if you have understood what the others have said but compounding is the process of using a small turbo to light off the line and a larger atmosphere turbo to bring in more once it lights. one does not help the other they are separate just inline with each other. small turbo mounts to the manifold then a hot pipe goes to the larger turbo then the exhaust hooks up to there, the air filter is mounted to the large turbo with the comp outlet of the large turbo flowing into the intake of the small turbo. they really are amazing when hooked up right and sent up well. I had my HE351 with a 75mm on top for my dodge cummins and i could pull a house down with how much constant power it had. with this i will say about compounds is you will reek havoc on the drive line.... having a big single is one thing but to have gobbs of air wherever in the RPM range you will find your weakest links one after the other tell they are fixed
The 722.6's used in auto chryslers are a little different from the v12 722.6 which is larger. I'm not sure if they are stronger/the same but I wouldn't think so. The only reason I plan to use the v12 version is because I know where to source one cheaply. what is the benefit of getting rid of the flex disc?
I understand how the compounding system works. i am hoping to use a 38mm wastegate that vents into the large turbo's hot side, then a 60mm wastegate to vent off from that. the drivetrain will be first swapped with the back end of an E420 w124, and if that doesn't stand up to the power I will try to work something out using a e32 750il LSD differential. i am partial to the E420 idea though because I get a really low ratio of 2.24 to help with fuel efficiency on the highway.
Just a thought but you may want to use the 60mm to vent past the small turbo and the 38mm to vent past the large turbo. As they are both handling the same exhaust gas volume but the small turbo's turbine is obviously smaller, read: more of a restriction.
Installed:
OM606/722.6, big IC, W220 brakes.
Planned:
DIY manifold, compound, 722.6 controller, built IP.
[i]Less rust.. [/i]
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