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Reinforced guibos
Eric78 Offline
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#1
Reinforced guibos
So who makes/sells guibos (flex disks) for high performance Mercs?
01-17-2015, 03:13 AM
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raysorenson Offline
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#2
RE: Reinforced guibos
Check with hedgehog motorsports.
01-17-2015, 08:49 AM
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Eric78 Offline
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#3
RE: Reinforced guibos
What are the measurements for a Mercedes 3 bolt Guibo? What is the diameter & bolt hole size? Is it the same as any BMW? Because I found some billet Alloy & Urethane ones for BMW.
02-02-2015, 02:16 AM
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erx Offline
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#4
RE: Reinforced guibos
Mercedes have different sizes flexidisks, biggest 3 or 4-bolted with hole diameter 110mm is pretty strong.
02-02-2015, 04:50 AM
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whipplem104 Offline
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#5
RE: Reinforced guibos
If you are making a lot of power just have a new driveshaft made with adapters to put cv joints on. Very standard in domestics with same type of drivelines.
02-02-2015, 07:52 PM
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Eric78 Offline
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#6
RE: Reinforced guibos
(02-02-2015, 04:50 AM)erx Wrote: Mercedes have different sizes flexidisks, biggest 3 or 4-bolted with hole diameter 110mm is pretty strong.

More specifically a 3 bolt w201 flex disc.

(02-02-2015, 07:52 PM)whipplem104 Wrote: If you are making a lot of power just have a new driveshaft made with adapters to put cv joints on. Very standard in domestics with same type of drivelines.

Only a 605 with an HX35, Custom driveshaft is about a grand & it means I'd have to have the car off the road for a while.
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2015, 04:20 AM by Eric78.)
02-03-2015, 04:18 AM
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erx Offline
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#7
RE: Reinforced guibos
(02-03-2015, 04:18 AM)Eric78 Wrote:
(02-02-2015, 04:50 AM)erx Wrote: Mercedes have different sizes flexidisks, biggest 3 or 4-bolted with hole diameter 110mm is pretty strong.

More specifically a 3 bolt w201 flex disc.

(02-02-2015, 07:52 PM)whipplem104 Wrote: If you are making a lot of power just have a new driveshaft made with adapters to put cv joints on. Very standard in domestics with same type of drivelines.

Only a 605 with an HX35, Custom driveshaft is about a grand & it means I'd have to have the car off the road for a while.
Ok, what gearbox and differential are you using? I think stock w201 is 90mm which is quite small and weak.
02-03-2015, 04:37 AM
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erx Offline
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#8
RE: Reinforced guibos
I made some pictures of stock ones, If someone is interested. From left to right:

1. 80mm W201, W124, W202 early 4cyl models c220d, C180, i belive it's the smallest MB ever made
2. 90mm W124 300E, most early w124 models
3. 110mm later W124 300TD, some w126 models
4. 110mm W210 300TD, early E55AMG, some w140 and w220 models
5. 120mm W211, W212, W221, from 280CDI to S65AMG, biggest I have seen. Maybe later big engined models have even bigger.

100mm came from C250TD and later W124 models, I don't have that so it's missing from picture.
Same models but different years may have different sizes disks.

[Image: IMG_5284_zpseiv8bzbn.jpg]

[Image: IMG_5286_zpsy5lrg0et.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2015, 08:14 AM by erx.)
02-03-2015, 08:02 AM
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Eric78 Offline
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#9
RE: Reinforced guibos
(02-03-2015, 04:37 AM)erx Wrote:
(02-03-2015, 04:18 AM)Eric78 Wrote:
(02-02-2015, 04:50 AM)erx Wrote: Mercedes have different sizes flexidisks, biggest 3 or 4-bolted with hole diameter 110mm is pretty strong.

More specifically a 3 bolt w201 flex disc.

(02-02-2015, 07:52 PM)whipplem104 Wrote: If you are making a lot of power just have a new driveshaft made with adapters to put cv joints on. Very standard in domestics with same type of drivelines.

Only a 605 with an HX35, Custom driveshaft is about a grand & it means I'd have to have the car off the road for a while.
Ok, what gearbox and differential are you using? I think stock w201 is 90mm which is quite small and weak.

722.636, with a w202(c220) three bolt output if it fits the splines, if not I'll stick with the four bolt AMG 55 one that's on the trans now, the diff will most likely be a 190e Cosworth ASD.
The Driveshaft is w202 C250 turbo.
02-04-2015, 02:45 AM
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whipplem104 Offline
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#10
RE: Reinforced guibos
You can get outputs that fit pretty much any pattern for the 722.6. You probably have a 90mm version on a c220. The 190 diff has a 90mm pattern. If you are planning on making much more than 300lb.ft of torque then I would get a larger differential from later clk amg cars and put a quaife or wavetrac in. Then upgrade the drive shaft with at least the larger pattern f/discs.
Remember when the driveshaft come loose it can come through the floor and kill you or at least do a lot of damage.
I have the 100mm pattern in my car and at around 400lb/ft of torque at the wheels with sticky tires I can twist up a brand new flex disc in one night at the drag strip and I have had the center support flex enough that the center u joint hit the seat belt bolts. So I am not doing anything more until a new custom one piece driveshaft is in my car.
02-04-2015, 09:15 AM
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raysorenson Offline
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#11
RE: Reinforced guibos
I have a custom driveshaft in my W124 that has u-joints only. My clutch disc is sprung, single mass flywheel. I have poly diff mounts, poly subframe mounts. The torsional vibrations that occur under certain engine speeds and loads, which are worst in top gear, are horrendous. It sounds like a big diesel truck driveline. I'm going to cut off the u-joint a the diff and weld on a big flex disc flange. Hopefully one large flex disc will be enough to keep it from rattling my teeth out. The rear is probably the best place for a flex disc to come apart anyway.
02-04-2015, 12:57 PM
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erx Offline
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#12
RE: Reinforced guibos
100mm is good for stock 2,5td, not STD. It's a lot thinner than w210 110mm or w211 120mm, hole diameter is only one factor. I recommend to take 4 bolted 120mm disks from scrapyard, if it's used also on 700lb/ft 65AMG it will hold that 400lb/ft with ease.
One important thing is that propshaft should be on right angle compared to gearbox and differential, so flexidisk is straight between flanges.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2015, 02:28 PM by erx.)
02-04-2015, 02:01 PM
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winmutt Offline
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#13
RE: Reinforced guibos
Meyle catalog is a good source for all of these things, contains diagrams and measurements.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
02-04-2015, 02:35 PM
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Eric78 Offline
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#14
RE: Reinforced guibos
(02-04-2015, 09:15 AM)whipplem104 Wrote: I have the 100mm pattern in my car and at around 400lb/ft of torque at the wheels with sticky tires I can twist up a brand new flex disc in one night at the drag strip
I was looking at replacing the guibos with billet alloy ones with urethane inserts, that's why I asked about BMW sizes, Revshift has them for BMW.
02-05-2015, 12:10 AM
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Petar Offline
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#15
RE: Reinforced guibos
Somebody here has already tried that it didn't work out well i think too much vibration
02-05-2015, 03:54 AM
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Druk Offline
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#16
RE: Reinforced guibos
I have this behind an OM606/Getrag 717.450
[Image: propshaft032_zps32f02000.jpg]

and rear...
[Image: propshaft031_zps396cf3f4.jpg]

using custom adaptors...
[Image: propshaft017_zps9ba9b32d.jpg]

and a one-piece 3" shaft and have to say that it's as smooth and un-noticeable as the original and although to be fair it's running a standard 606TD engine with minimal power upgrade it feels like it could handle a whole lot more.




.
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2015, 12:42 PM by Druk.)
02-05-2015, 05:44 AM
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raysorenson Offline
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#17
RE: Reinforced guibos
717.450 is dual mass right? If so, that would explain it. Dual mass flywheels absorb torsional vibrations far better than a sprung clutch disc.
02-05-2015, 03:16 PM
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Druk Offline
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#18
RE: Reinforced guibos
^ Yes, dual mass.
02-05-2015, 05:40 PM
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sassparilla_kid Offline
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#19
RE: Reinforced guibos
Druk does your driveshaft have the center u-joint like stock or did you eliminate it?
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
02-08-2015, 03:46 AM
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Druk Offline
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#20
RE: Reinforced guibos
(02-08-2015, 03:46 AM)sassparilla_kid Wrote: Druk does your driveshaft have the center u-joint like stock or did you eliminate it?

Eliminated it. Gone. And the reason I had to do this is because my installation is way off alignment, maybe by as much as 1". What the driveshaft engineer did say (and he did a home visit to inspect) was that because of the length of shaft involved an extra wall thickness and dia pipe was required. Additional to that, the thing is stuffed full with some sort of cardboard which acts as an anti-resonator or vibration damper.
I did wonder at the spec of Ray's pipe and whether that might be at the root of his vibration problem Huh


.
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2015, 06:30 AM by Druk.)
02-08-2015, 06:25 AM
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Petar Offline
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#21
RE: Reinforced guibos
(02-05-2015, 05:44 AM)Druk Wrote: ....
using custom adaptors...
[Image: propshaft017_zps9ba9b32d.jpg]
.....

That rubber adaptor thingy looks really unusual. I wonder what is that for ??

My 209 D van has this style of flange
[Image: attachment.php?aid=1658]
02-08-2015, 06:41 AM
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Druk Offline
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#22
RE: Reinforced guibos
(02-08-2015, 06:41 AM)Petar Wrote: That rubber adaptor thingy looks really unusual. I wonder what is that for ??

My 209 D van has this style of flange
[Image: attachment.php?aid=1658]

That 'rubber adaptor' is a steel billet machined out on CNC mill then painted black (badly) Big Grin . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCP62uc_Cmc
The thin steel plate mounted behind it is the rotor for the electric speedo pick-up.

[Image: 2_zps6caef0d1.gif]

Did have a look at that what's on your van but cost was waaay too high and anyways still needed something to mate to 126 diff flange. Note: they're different sizes F&R.

[Image: 1_zps1e656b4b.gif]




.
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2015, 07:20 AM by Druk.)
02-08-2015, 07:12 AM
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Petar Offline
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#23
RE: Reinforced guibos
And the brainfart of the day award goes to...me Big Grin

That speedo pickup is a really good idea
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2015, 11:48 AM by Petar.)
02-08-2015, 11:46 AM
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om606 Offline
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#24
RE: Reinforced guibos
(02-08-2015, 07:12 AM)Druk Wrote:
(02-08-2015, 06:41 AM)Petar Wrote: That rubber adaptor thingy looks really unusual. I wonder what is that for ??

My 209 D van has this style of flange
[Image: attachment.php?aid=1658]

That 'rubber adaptor' is a steel billet machined out on CNC mill then painted black (badly) Big Grin .  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCP62uc_Cmc  
The thin steel plate mounted behind it is the rotor for the electric speedo pick-up.

[Image: 2_zps6caef0d1.gif]

Did have a look at that what's on your van but cost was waaay too high and anyways still needed something to mate to 126 diff flange. Note: they're different sizes F&R.

[Image: 1_zps1e656b4b.gif]


How can I buy it?

.
08-04-2018, 06:54 AM
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maxypriest Offline
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#25
RE: Reinforced guibos
Originally on my W124 I had a 185mm diff with a 90mm 6 hole flex disc, the 6 speed manual gearbox had a 110mm 6 bolt one from a CLK. As has been suggested here the 110mm flex discs are very strong and should not fail, the 90mm ones will give up – they are a magnitude weaker. 
 
I did infact build an alloy rubber bushed 90mm flex disc – however in the end I came up with a better plan.
 
I knew the prop/diff was the weak point in the drive line so rather than mess about (and to be honest if you want to do this properly you need to sort it right first time and unfortunately spend some cash) I fitted a 210mm 2.65 diff with a 110mm 8 hole flex disc and a modified SL500 prop. The SL500 prop has the 110mm flex disc ends AND (often forgotten about) a much larger UJ in the centre. It also has room for a larger centre bearing that JUST fits into the W124 tunnel.
 
Recon UJ, new CB, cut, shut and balanced I now have a drive line that is silent and vibration free. It’s also upto the 456ft/lbs of the engine.
 
All in I recon the diff and propshafts upgrade cost £700-800.
 
Now the drive shafts are the weak points… any experiences/knowledge of alternatives?
 
NB – I must unfortunately tell you all that DRUK died some months ago. Nice chap too.
RIP Derek.
W124 om606 HX40 finished and it's a beauty 450bhp/456ft-lbs
08-14-2018, 08:42 AM
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atypicalguy Offline
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#26
RE: Reinforced guibos
(08-14-2018, 08:42 AM)maxypriest Wrote: Originally on my W124 I had a 185mm diff with a 90mm 6 hole flex disc, the 6 speed manual gearbox had a 110mm 6 bolt one from a CLK. As has been suggested here the 110mm flex discs are very strong and should not fail, the 90mm ones will give up – they are a magnitude weaker. 
 
I did infact build an alloy rubber bushed 90mm flex disc – however in the end I came up with a better plan.
 
I knew the prop/diff was the weak point in the drive line so rather than mess about (and to be honest if you want to do this properly you need to sort it right first time and unfortunately spend some cash) I fitted a 210mm 2.65 diff with a 110mm 8 hole flex disc and a modified SL500 prop. The SL500 prop has the 110mm flex disc ends AND (often forgotten about) a much larger UJ in the centre. It also has room for a larger centre bearing that JUST fits into the W124 tunnel.
 
Recon UJ, new CB, cut, shut and balanced I now have a drive line that is silent and vibration free. It’s also upto the 456ft/lbs of the engine.
 
All in I recon the diff and propshafts upgrade cost £700-800.
 
Now the drive shafts are the weak points… any experiences/knowledge of alternatives?
 
NB – I must unfortunately tell you all that DRUK died some months ago. Nice chap too.
RIP Derek.
I am on the same trajectory with the 1987 300TD

2.65 210mm diff from a 1991 500SL, which has the 4-bolt 110mm guibo/flange
Putting the wavetrac in now; in pieces on bench, waiting for new bearings and seals ATM from Tom Hanson.
v8 w124 sedan driveshaft
New 4 bolt prop flange for the transmission
Axle shafts from the 500SL, reconditioned.
Poly bushing set from Poland/Strongflex or -thane (can't remember).
V8w124 subframe (can keep the 500SL diff backing plate, which has the mounts spaced much further apart)
The ASR shafts are much larger than the non-ASR, but the axle length is a bit different also due to the sensor rings and different diff flange to flange dimension. People say they will work however.

Had the non-ASR shafts redone at cvjreman in Denver; will see if they hold together. Running a 722.3 and stock-ish rubber for now, so I don't expect any problems with either the guibos or the half shafts. whipplem104 was running some c63 amg black half shafts and hubs in the stock carriers; I have a set of those hubs and shafts if anyone wants to pay me what I have in them. It would require a newer differential though.

Sorry to hear about DRUK. RIP.
08-20-2018, 03:17 PM
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NZScott Offline
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#27
RE: Reinforced guibos
I bit the bullet and bought the UJ adapter flanges from jagsthatrun. Looking around for a shop to build a driveshaft now. (kinda off topic)

1978 300D, 373,000km
OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (awaiting certification to be legal...)

1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km 'new' DD





08-21-2018, 04:52 AM
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atypicalguy Offline
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#28
RE: Reinforced guibos
Seems like you need something to absorb vibration pulses from the motor if you are running a manual transmission. Per Ray's post above
08-22-2018, 11:49 AM
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NZScott Offline
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#29
RE: Reinforced guibos
I might have to yes. i stall have rubber mounts in the back though. I've been de-sensitised lately from driving a '75 HJ45 around for a while with no mod cons at all...

1978 300D, 373,000km
OM617.912 with a Holset HX30W, 7.5mm IP, 711.113 5 speed (awaiting certification to be legal...)

1977 250 270,000km (parts car)
1977 300D (ex 280) 500,000km 'new' DD





08-23-2018, 01:13 AM
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maxypriest Offline
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#30
RE: Reinforced guibos
Dunno whether its of interest - however I have fitted a DPUK anti jerk kit that has smoothed the jerking out of the drivetrain, so if you are going for a solid UJ set up it would be a worthwhile upgrade. I have some vids on youtube - my channel is 'Maximilian Boost'.
W124 om606 HX40 finished and it's a beauty 450bhp/456ft-lbs
08-28-2018, 10:28 AM
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atypicalguy Offline
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#31
RE: Reinforced guibos
(08-14-2018, 08:42 AM)maxypriest Wrote: Originally on my W124 I had a 185mm diff with a 90mm 6 hole flex disc, the 6 speed manual gearbox had a 110mm 6 bolt one from a CLK. As has been suggested here the 110mm flex discs are very strong and should not fail, the 90mm ones will give up – they are a magnitude weaker. 
 
I did infact build an alloy rubber bushed 90mm flex disc – however in the end I came up with a better plan.
 
I knew the prop/diff was the weak point in the drive line so rather than mess about (and to be honest if you want to do this properly you need to sort it right first time and unfortunately spend some cash) I fitted a 210mm 2.65 diff with a 110mm 8 hole flex disc and a modified SL500 prop. The SL500 prop has the 110mm flex disc ends AND (often forgotten about) a much larger UJ in the centre. It also has room for a larger centre bearing that JUST fits into the W124 tunnel.
 
Recon UJ, new CB, cut, shut and balanced I now have a drive line that is silent and vibration free. It’s also upto the 456ft/lbs of the engine.
 
All in I recon the diff and propshafts upgrade cost £700-800.
 
Now the drive shafts are the weak points… any experiences/knowledge of alternatives?
 
NB – I must unfortunately tell you all that DRUK died some months ago. Nice chap too.
RIP Derek.

This is the best solution maxy but the 722.3 auto has a transmission mount that will not clear the 120mm flex disc. So there is no way to run the 8 hole guibo up front. Just have to go with the biggest 6 hole one from the w210 300d.
09-22-2019, 08:11 PM
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