Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
Garrett 712120 VNT Hella 6NW 008 412 actuator.
11-05-2009, 10:32 AM
#51
(11-03-2009, 04:01 PM)300SD81 I think this is the basic idea of how the code is gonna work:
1. try to maintain X psi of boost
if boost > X, open vanes unless fully opened
if boost < X, close unless fully closed
2. if exhaust pressure too high, open vanes even if boost < X
3. if egt too high, fully open vanes, sound alarm
For optimal fuel economy, and if you have gobs of free time, the ideal thing to do would be to calculate engine load and only generate enough boost needed for that load. That would require LOTS of tuning though.
Sounding the alarm is a good idea, but if you reduce boost, the EGTs will go up since there is less air mass to cool off the injected fuel. The ALDA will cut back the fuel some when the boost goes away, but if the pump is that modified, it will still probably have EGTs that are too high.
I'm really really lucky... at work we have these AWESOME scopes:
http://www.tek.com/products/oscilloscopes/tds5000b/ They've spoiled me senseless.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(11-03-2009, 04:01 PM)300SD81 I think this is the basic idea of how the code is gonna work:
1. try to maintain X psi of boost
if boost > X, open vanes unless fully opened
if boost < X, close unless fully closed
2. if exhaust pressure too high, open vanes even if boost < X
3. if egt too high, fully open vanes, sound alarm
For optimal fuel economy, and if you have gobs of free time, the ideal thing to do would be to calculate engine load and only generate enough boost needed for that load. That would require LOTS of tuning though.
Sounding the alarm is a good idea, but if you reduce boost, the EGTs will go up since there is less air mass to cool off the injected fuel. The ALDA will cut back the fuel some when the boost goes away, but if the pump is that modified, it will still probably have EGTs that are too high.
I'm really really lucky... at work we have these AWESOME scopes:
http://www.tek.com/products/oscilloscopes/tds5000b/ They've spoiled me senseless.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
11-06-2009, 04:22 PM
#52
(11-05-2009, 10:32 AM)Tymbrymi(11-03-2009, 04:01 PM)300SD81 I think this is the basic idea of how the code is gonna work:
1. try to maintain X psi of boost
if boost > X, open vanes unless fully opened
if boost < X, close unless fully closed
2. if exhaust pressure too high, open vanes even if boost < X
3. if egt too high, fully open vanes, sound alarm
For optimal fuel economy, and if you have gobs of free time, the ideal thing to do would be to calculate engine load and only generate enough boost needed for that load. That would require LOTS of tuning though.
Sounding the alarm is a good idea, but if you reduce boost, the EGTs will go up since there is less air mass to cool off the injected fuel. The ALDA will cut back the fuel some when the boost goes away, but if the pump is that modified, it will still probably have EGTs that are too high.
I'm really really lucky... at work we have these AWESOME scopes:
http://www.tek.com/products/oscilloscopes/tds5000b/ They've spoiled me senseless.
Wouldn't the huge amount of excessive fuel cause it to cool down? I thought that was why the Finnish superturbos smoked so much.. to use the excess fuel as cooling.
Those are sweet scopes... I WANT! That signal generator would be useful too
what do you work as?I'm at home and got my actuator and PIC programmer, so when I get back to Athens, I can give this a try... How are you guys getting the wires to stay attached to the actuator? Yall order the connector?
This post was last modified: 11-06-2009, 04:24 PM by 300SD81.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(11-05-2009, 10:32 AM)Tymbrymi(11-03-2009, 04:01 PM)300SD81 I think this is the basic idea of how the code is gonna work:
1. try to maintain X psi of boost
if boost > X, open vanes unless fully opened
if boost < X, close unless fully closed
2. if exhaust pressure too high, open vanes even if boost < X
3. if egt too high, fully open vanes, sound alarm
For optimal fuel economy, and if you have gobs of free time, the ideal thing to do would be to calculate engine load and only generate enough boost needed for that load. That would require LOTS of tuning though.
Sounding the alarm is a good idea, but if you reduce boost, the EGTs will go up since there is less air mass to cool off the injected fuel. The ALDA will cut back the fuel some when the boost goes away, but if the pump is that modified, it will still probably have EGTs that are too high.
I'm really really lucky... at work we have these AWESOME scopes:
http://www.tek.com/products/oscilloscopes/tds5000b/ They've spoiled me senseless.
Wouldn't the huge amount of excessive fuel cause it to cool down? I thought that was why the Finnish superturbos smoked so much.. to use the excess fuel as cooling.
Those are sweet scopes... I WANT! That signal generator would be useful too
what do you work as?I'm at home and got my actuator and PIC programmer, so when I get back to Athens, I can give this a try... How are you guys getting the wires to stay attached to the actuator? Yall order the connector?
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
11-08-2009, 03:40 AM
#53
Actuator sweeps from 0 to 100%, Video coming soon. I lost my cell phone at the bar the other night so I gotta borrow a camera..VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkGsYd9mttI
used the webcam on my laptop, so the qualitys bretty bad...
UPDATE: Found out I used an undersized 3.3V voltage regulator and fried the ethernet controller when it failed short-circuit..
Was also having issues with the 3.3-5v level shiftter at >16MHz, so I decided to do a complete redesign for v2.0.. New board will be fully 3.3V and will use a microcontroller with integrated ethernet. Reusing left over PCB, so new board is approx 3in x 1in.![[Image: expresspcb.th.png]](http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3640/expresspcb.png)
Also discovered that the actuator responds fine to both 12V and 5V PWM signals, and erratically to 3.3V PWM.
This post was last modified: 11-09-2009, 05:13 PM by 300SD81.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
EDIT: Apparently made a post while I was blacked out drunk last night... I got it working Actuator sweeps from 0 to 100%, Video coming soon. I lost my cell phone at the bar the other night so I gotta borrow a camera..
VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkGsYd9mttI
used the webcam on my laptop, so the qualitys bretty bad...
UPDATE: Found out I used an undersized 3.3V voltage regulator and fried the ethernet controller when it failed short-circuit.. Was also having issues with the 3.3-5v level shiftter at >16MHz, so I decided to do a complete redesign for v2.0.. New board will be fully 3.3V and will use a microcontroller with integrated ethernet. Reusing left over PCB, so new board is approx 3in x 1in.
Also discovered that the actuator responds fine to both 12V and 5V PWM signals, and erratically to 3.3V PWM.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
11-09-2009, 02:40 PM
#54
(11-08-2009, 03:40 AM)300SD81 Also discovered that the actuator responds fine to both 12V and 5V PWM signals, and erratically to 3.3V PWM.
Wierd. I must not be running at 140hz still. I am going to buy the cheapo digital scope on payday. Good to hear its running well at 5v!
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(11-08-2009, 03:40 AM)300SD81 Also discovered that the actuator responds fine to both 12V and 5V PWM signals, and erratically to 3.3V PWM.
Wierd. I must not be running at 140hz still. I am going to buy the cheapo digital scope on payday. Good to hear its running well at 5v!
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
11-14-2009, 05:00 AM
#55
I can move the actuator to any position using 3-5 byte UDP packets sent over the network. Now if I ever get a turbo installed into the car, I can control it with any computer with a network port Been working on it a little more, 256 step PWM resolution is about the best for the actuator, since it moves a little about every step or 2. The full open state should not be set to 0% duty cycle, since there is a delay between it starting to get a signal and actually moving. PWM duty cycle should not be changed instantly, but sweeped to avoid a delay between the change and it moving. Optimal positions for 256 step PWM with 0x00 as 0% and 0xFF as 100% are 0x26 for full open and 0xF3 for full close.
This post was last modified: 11-16-2009, 01:17 AM by 300SD81.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
V2 of the controller is complete, and COMPUTER CONTROL IS WORKING I can move the actuator to any position using 3-5 byte UDP packets sent over the network. Now if I ever get a turbo installed into the car, I can control it with any computer with a network port
Been working on it a little more, 256 step PWM resolution is about the best for the actuator, since it moves a little about every step or 2. The full open state should not be set to 0% duty cycle, since there is a delay between it starting to get a signal and actually moving. PWM duty cycle should not be changed instantly, but sweeped to avoid a delay between the change and it moving. Optimal positions for 256 step PWM with 0x00 as 0% and 0xFF as 100% are 0x26 for full open and 0xF3 for full close.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
11-19-2009, 03:35 PM
#56
after the holiday season I'll definitely be looking to put an electronically actuated VNT into the GM Benz. If your project hasn't been completed by then, I'd be happy to help out (I have a good bit atmel and arduino experience).
the next big project I'd like to work on is a fly-by-wire accelerator with a force-feedback pedal. I'd like to make my IP rack actuated by a servo, and replace the function of the ALDA with force-feedback. The pedal would offer no resistance until you reach a point where the microcontroller decides you're about to start making black smoke, at which point the pedal pushes back against you. The key here is that the force-feedback would be weak enough that if you mashed the pedal, you could overcome it. This would allow you to inject additional fuel in emergency situations, while remaining environmentally friendly in day-to-day driving.
so of course, having an arduino-controlled VNT would complement that system nicely!
this is awesome work guys!
after the holiday season I'll definitely be looking to put an electronically actuated VNT into the GM Benz. If your project hasn't been completed by then, I'd be happy to help out (I have a good bit atmel and arduino experience).
the next big project I'd like to work on is a fly-by-wire accelerator with a force-feedback pedal. I'd like to make my IP rack actuated by a servo, and replace the function of the ALDA with force-feedback. The pedal would offer no resistance until you reach a point where the microcontroller decides you're about to start making black smoke, at which point the pedal pushes back against you. The key here is that the force-feedback would be weak enough that if you mashed the pedal, you could overcome it. This would allow you to inject additional fuel in emergency situations, while remaining environmentally friendly in day-to-day driving.
so of course, having an arduino-controlled VNT would complement that system nicely!
11-21-2009, 03:32 AM
#57
(11-19-2009, 03:35 PM)cell this is awesome work guys!
after the holiday season I'll definitely be looking to put an electronically actuated VNT into the GM Benz. If your project hasn't been completed by then, I'd be happy to help out (I have a good bit atmel and arduino experience).
the next big project I'd like to work on is a fly-by-wire accelerator with a force-feedback pedal. I'd like to make my IP rack actuated by a servo, and replace the function of the ALDA with force-feedback. The pedal would offer no resistance until you reach a point where the microcontroller decides you're about to start making black smoke, at which point the pedal pushes back against you. The key here is that the force-feedback would be weak enough that if you mashed the pedal, you could overcome it. This would allow you to inject additional fuel in emergency situations, while remaining environmentally friendly in day-to-day driving.
so of course, having an arduino-controlled VNT would complement that system nicely!
Definitely sounds like an interesting project, keep us posted
Are you planning to just replace the throttle linkage or the actual pump governor?? I'd like to do a completely electronically controlled IP some day..but definitely don't feel like I'm good enough to do it yet. microcontroller crash = engine go boom...V3, FINAL of the turbo controller is now complete
had to deal with some overheating of the voltage regulator on V2, and make some provision to mount it in a case... V2 was laid out to fit on a scrap PCB and I didn't have enough room for mounting holes.I got a new sensor board laid out and parts ordered as well, so I can ditch the USB interface and make everything ethernet.. ECU is next, as soon as Microchip starts shipping samples of the PIC32MX795F512H (80MHz, 128K RAM, Ethernet..
Should be more than enough, I hope..)
This post was last modified: 11-21-2009, 03:37 AM by 300SD81.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(11-19-2009, 03:35 PM)cell this is awesome work guys!
after the holiday season I'll definitely be looking to put an electronically actuated VNT into the GM Benz. If your project hasn't been completed by then, I'd be happy to help out (I have a good bit atmel and arduino experience).
the next big project I'd like to work on is a fly-by-wire accelerator with a force-feedback pedal. I'd like to make my IP rack actuated by a servo, and replace the function of the ALDA with force-feedback. The pedal would offer no resistance until you reach a point where the microcontroller decides you're about to start making black smoke, at which point the pedal pushes back against you. The key here is that the force-feedback would be weak enough that if you mashed the pedal, you could overcome it. This would allow you to inject additional fuel in emergency situations, while remaining environmentally friendly in day-to-day driving.
so of course, having an arduino-controlled VNT would complement that system nicely!
Definitely sounds like an interesting project, keep us posted
Are you planning to just replace the throttle linkage or the actual pump governor?? I'd like to do a completely electronically controlled IP some day..but definitely don't feel like I'm good enough to do it yet. microcontroller crash = engine go boom...V3, FINAL of the turbo controller is now complete
had to deal with some overheating of the voltage regulator on V2, and make some provision to mount it in a case... V2 was laid out to fit on a scrap PCB and I didn't have enough room for mounting holes.I got a new sensor board laid out and parts ordered as well, so I can ditch the USB interface and make everything ethernet.. ECU is next, as soon as Microchip starts shipping samples of the PIC32MX795F512H (80MHz, 128K RAM, Ethernet..
Should be more than enough, I hope..)
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
11-21-2009, 05:01 AM
#58
(11-21-2009, 03:32 AM)300SD81 (80MHz, 128K RAM, Ethernet..
I guess nobody really needs more than 640k of ram after all.
ForcedInduction
11-21-2009, 05:01 AM
#58
(11-21-2009, 03:32 AM)300SD81 (80MHz, 128K RAM, Ethernet..
I guess nobody really needs more than 640k of ram after all.
12-05-2009, 01:40 AM
#59
(11-21-2009, 05:01 AM)ForcedInduction(11-21-2009, 03:32 AM)300SD81 (80MHz, 128K RAM, Ethernet..
I guess nobody really needs more than 640k of ram after all.
from the smartest man i ever knew, talking about bill gates statements on memory less than a year after he denied saying it in 1996:
"bill gates cant even brush his teeth with 640k, im sure that just squeezing the tooth paste takes 800k or more. most of it wasted on plug-n-play. i bet if you turn everything else off, stopped his heart for a second, and poked him in the eyeball, you could make him blink on 640k. but he cant handle interrupts very well either, so thats not a for-sure thing"
doug sworthe 1962-2006
i
windows
(11-21-2009, 05:01 AM)ForcedInduction(11-21-2009, 03:32 AM)300SD81 (80MHz, 128K RAM, Ethernet..
I guess nobody really needs more than 640k of ram after all.
from the smartest man i ever knew, talking about bill gates statements on memory less than a year after he denied saying it in 1996:
"bill gates cant even brush his teeth with 640k, im sure that just squeezing the tooth paste takes 800k or more. most of it wasted on plug-n-play. i bet if you turn everything else off, stopped his heart for a second, and poked him in the eyeball, you could make him blink on 640k. but he cant handle interrupts very well either, so thats not a for-sure thing"
doug sworthe 1962-2006
i
windows
12-07-2009, 02:08 PM
#60
This post was last modified: 12-07-2009, 02:08 PM by winmutt.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
I got my panel scope this weekend (yes 300SD81, the other scope I have makes the one you pictured look like a state of the art piece). Good news is that the arduino is outputting PWM at 7.1ms and 5v. The bad news is that its not making the actuator actuate. Pretty dismayed at this point. Am going to redo the whole setup again and verify I don't have any bad wires.....
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
12-08-2009, 07:19 PM
#62
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
My version of the controller itself is functional, however it merely takes commands from a laptop which does the actual calculations and sensor reads. Final version with a microchip controlling it won't be complete until march 2010, when microchip starts shipping the 795F512H chip i want to use....
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
12-08-2009, 11:21 PM
#63
(12-08-2009, 05:25 PM)lars How close are you guys to have a complete working hella controller? approximately in weeks/months?
If so, will you sell a unit
Considering I am moving soon, spring if I am lucky. I have all the parts I need but as usual am lacking the time to get it all together.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(12-08-2009, 05:25 PM)lars How close are you guys to have a complete working hella controller? approximately in weeks/months?
If so, will you sell a unit
Considering I am moving soon, spring if I am lucky. I have all the parts I need but as usual am lacking the time to get it all together.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
12-14-2009, 03:28 AM
#64
(12-08-2009, 07:19 PM)300SD81 Final version with a microchip controlling it won't be complete until march 2010, when microchip starts shipping the 795F512H chip i want to use....
Make that over winter break, just checked microchips website and they are shipping samples even tho the chips not for sale yet.
Having a rough time laying out the connections between the pic32 and the ethernet phy on a single layer board though.. why in the world do chip makers never put all the pins on a parallel bus next to each other sequentially!?!?! 
its like they want to force you to use multilayer boards..V3 of the actuator board had a short, and I lifted a trace trying to get rid of it, so I found a way to mount V2 in a case, and added a huge heatsink, just going to use it and hope it dosen't fry, the actuator itself has a built in failsafe if it does.
Sensor board is mostly done, but final exams are seriously getting in the way. Should be finished as soon as I can go home and use my moms reflow *toster* oven again.
(12-07-2009, 02:08 PM)winmutt (yes 300SD81, the other scope I have makes the one you pictured look like a state of the art piece).
Wanna post a picture of that timg? I'd love to see it
(12-07-2009, 02:08 PM)winmutt Good news is that the arduino is outputting PWM at 7.1ms and 5v. The bad news is that its not making the actuator actuate. Pretty dismayed at this point. Am going to redo the whole setup again and verify I don't have any bad wires.....
Thats strange... I'd test the actuator by opening it while unpowered and turning the motor off the open position by hand, it should return to fully open when power is applied. If that works and your getting the correct pwm on the scope (measured from pin on actuator), I'd say you have a dead actuator...
This post was last modified: 12-14-2009, 03:48 AM by 300SD81.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(12-08-2009, 07:19 PM)300SD81 Final version with a microchip controlling it won't be complete until march 2010, when microchip starts shipping the 795F512H chip i want to use....
Make that over winter break, just checked microchips website and they are shipping samples even tho the chips not for sale yet.
Having a rough time laying out the connections between the pic32 and the ethernet phy on a single layer board though.. why in the world do chip makers never put all the pins on a parallel bus next to each other sequentially!?!?! its like they want to force you to use multilayer boards..V3 of the actuator board had a short, and I lifted a trace trying to get rid of it, so I found a way to mount V2 in a case, and added a huge heatsink, just going to use it and hope it dosen't fry, the actuator itself has a built in failsafe if it does.
Sensor board is mostly done, but final exams are seriously getting in the way. Should be finished as soon as I can go home and use my moms reflow *toster* oven again.
(12-07-2009, 02:08 PM)winmutt (yes 300SD81, the other scope I have makes the one you pictured look like a state of the art piece).
Wanna post a picture of that timg? I'd love to see it
(12-07-2009, 02:08 PM)winmutt Good news is that the arduino is outputting PWM at 7.1ms and 5v. The bad news is that its not making the actuator actuate. Pretty dismayed at this point. Am going to redo the whole setup again and verify I don't have any bad wires.....
Thats strange... I'd test the actuator by opening it while unpowered and turning the motor off the open position by hand, it should return to fully open when power is applied. If that works and your getting the correct pwm on the scope (measured from pin on actuator), I'd say you have a dead actuator...
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
01-12-2010, 10:58 AM
#65
(11-06-2009, 04:22 PM)300SD81 Wouldn't the huge amount of excessive fuel cause it to cool down? I thought that was why the Finnish superturbos smoked so much.. to use the excess fuel as cooling.No. Excessive fuel is to help spooling up big turbos and it produces much heat. Lean AFR (as it is in basically every stock diesel engine) cools the engine and is good for fuel economy.
When a good fuel economy is wanted with a VNT, one has to keep EGP down on part throttle. It helps spool up not to have the vanes open all the way, so the turbo is not standing still but on standby. You know what I mean. I found out that on 606 and GT37v about 0,5bar EGP was a good compromise.
When I struggled to get the GT37v to spool up, I tuned up the fueling as seen in many Finnish MB videos. It did help indeed, boost became about 500rpms earlier. As I don't want my car to be such a smoker, I went back to bad spool up and less smoke..
With smaller VNT turbos that kind of smoking will get the vanes stuck pretty quickly -- but as they spool up nicely even without smoke, why even bother.
This post was last modified: 01-12-2010, 11:04 AM by muuris.
(11-06-2009, 04:22 PM)300SD81 Wouldn't the huge amount of excessive fuel cause it to cool down? I thought that was why the Finnish superturbos smoked so much.. to use the excess fuel as cooling.No. Excessive fuel is to help spooling up big turbos and it produces much heat. Lean AFR (as it is in basically every stock diesel engine) cools the engine and is good for fuel economy.
When a good fuel economy is wanted with a VNT, one has to keep EGP down on part throttle. It helps spool up not to have the vanes open all the way, so the turbo is not standing still but on standby. You know what I mean. I found out that on 606 and GT37v about 0,5bar EGP was a good compromise.
When I struggled to get the GT37v to spool up, I tuned up the fueling as seen in many Finnish MB videos. It did help indeed, boost became about 500rpms earlier. As I don't want my car to be such a smoker, I went back to bad spool up and less smoke..
With smaller VNT turbos that kind of smoking will get the vanes stuck pretty quickly -- but as they spool up nicely even without smoke, why even bother.
01-12-2010, 04:07 PM
#66
(01-12-2010, 10:58 AM)muuris With smaller VNT turbos that kind of smoking will get the vanes stuck pretty quickly -- but as they spool up nicely even without smoke, why even bother.
How quickly are you talking? My software cycles the vanes on every startup. Will that be enough to keep it from sticking?
Just a little update... Microchip let me order the chip, but its still backordered, so the ECU still has to wait.. Got the sensor board ready to go, just need to double check it for shorts and write its software.
Is there interest in buying an entire system once I have it working? Rough estimate on cost is about $250-300 for a kit depending on PCB fab costs and sourcing components (can't use free samples...). I can do assembly for extra...
This post was last modified: 01-12-2010, 04:18 PM by 300SD81.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
(01-12-2010, 10:58 AM)muuris With smaller VNT turbos that kind of smoking will get the vanes stuck pretty quickly -- but as they spool up nicely even without smoke, why even bother.
How quickly are you talking? My software cycles the vanes on every startup. Will that be enough to keep it from sticking?
Just a little update... Microchip let me order the chip, but its still backordered, so the ECU still has to wait.. Got the sensor board ready to go, just need to double check it for shorts and write its software.
Is there interest in buying an entire system once I have it working? Rough estimate on cost is about $250-300 for a kit depending on PCB fab costs and sourcing components (can't use free samples...). I can do assembly for extra...
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
01-12-2010, 04:45 PM
#67
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
I totally forgot, 300SD81 came over and showed off his controller. We hooked up mine and spent some time dickering around with it. I am going to switch over to bit banging when I have time, neither of us could identify an issue with the current setup
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
01-13-2010, 05:39 AM
#69
(01-12-2010, 04:07 PM)300SD81 How quickly are you talking? My software cycles the vanes on every startup. Will that be enough to keep it from sticking?Cycling helps, as well as some extra movement during normal driving. But heavy smoking will get them stuck eventually, so with such a small VNT just run the engine with minimal smoke and you're fine.
ALDA (external, for better control) should be tuned so that non-boost fueling is (almost) smokeless, but fueling starts to increase immediately as boost rises (to help getting boost fast without high exh.pressures = opening vanes as soon as possible, to get the them flowing good). I'd set the max ALDA operation point to a boost level in which the fuel is burned smokeless. Max boost setting would be about +0,5bars of that, to lean the mixture and cool the engine (if the turbo can handle it with sensible exh.pressures and compressor operating point still inside the map).
(01-12-2010, 04:07 PM)300SD81 How quickly are you talking? My software cycles the vanes on every startup. Will that be enough to keep it from sticking?Cycling helps, as well as some extra movement during normal driving. But heavy smoking will get them stuck eventually, so with such a small VNT just run the engine with minimal smoke and you're fine.
ALDA (external, for better control) should be tuned so that non-boost fueling is (almost) smokeless, but fueling starts to increase immediately as boost rises (to help getting boost fast without high exh.pressures = opening vanes as soon as possible, to get the them flowing good). I'd set the max ALDA operation point to a boost level in which the fuel is burned smokeless. Max boost setting would be about +0,5bars of that, to lean the mixture and cool the engine (if the turbo can handle it with sensible exh.pressures and compressor operating point still inside the map).
01-23-2010, 08:09 PM
#70
I got my hella actuator to work!
![[Image: hella-progress.jpg]](http://jason.pepas.com/images/hella-progress.jpg)
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENSbcuCAXt0
code, etc: http://jason.pepas.com/wiki/index.php?title=HellaSweep
I hacked around with the above code and experimentally found some limits on the frequency which it will respond to:
![[Image: hella-timing.jpg]](http://jason.pepas.com/images/hella-timing.jpg)
I couldn't get the controller to respond to 5v PWM. I had to use an N-channel mosfet and drive it with 9v PWM.
this is so badass!
DUDES!!!
I got my hella actuator to work!
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENSbcuCAXt0
code, etc: http://jason.pepas.com/wiki/index.php?title=HellaSweep
I hacked around with the above code and experimentally found some limits on the frequency which it will respond to:
I couldn't get the controller to respond to 5v PWM. I had to use an N-channel mosfet and drive it with 9v PWM.
this is so badass!
01-23-2010, 08:25 PM
#72
(01-23-2010, 08:23 PM)Kiwibacon Cool, an excellent job you've done there.
So does a change from 9-12v change the working frequency?
I don't know, I haven't tried pwm'ing it with 12v yet.
hey winmutt, did you ever get your setup working? one thing which I cam across which might have tripped you up was that I had to tie the hella ground and arduino ground together. otherwise it didn't work.
here's another version of that program, but this time instead of doing a sweep, you control the VNT manually using a potentiometer.
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cssBX5Wxf8c
code: http://jason.pepas.com/code/hellaknob/
This post was last modified: 01-23-2010, 09:15 PM by cell.
(01-23-2010, 08:23 PM)Kiwibacon Cool, an excellent job you've done there.
So does a change from 9-12v change the working frequency?
I don't know, I haven't tried pwm'ing it with 12v yet.
hey winmutt, did you ever get your setup working? one thing which I cam across which might have tripped you up was that I had to tie the hella ground and arduino ground together. otherwise it didn't work.
here's another version of that program, but this time instead of doing a sweep, you control the VNT manually using a potentiometer.
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cssBX5Wxf8c
code: http://jason.pepas.com/code/hellaknob/
01-26-2010, 04:02 PM
#73
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Cell, I had mine all running off the same power supply, at first a 12v battery and then a PC p/s. No go. I do see you are using a different register value than me. My biggest problem is lack of time.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
02-07-2010, 07:25 AM
#74
Interesting note; the actuator doesn't go above 70% closed or below 30% open.
Attached Files
ForcedInduction
02-07-2010, 07:25 AM
#74
I thought this might aid in understanding VGT control logic. Its a data log from a 25 minute city and highway test drive of a 2006 Gillig Low Floor. Its powered by a Cummins ISM that has a Holset HE431V and 5-speed ZF automatic.
Interesting note; the actuator doesn't go above 70% closed or below 30% open.
Attached Files
ForcedInduction
02-11-2010, 02:13 PM
#76
This might help as well.
http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/900889
02-18-2010, 10:36 PM
#77
Both the actuator and sensor boards have been working pretty good. I have the basic algorithm for turbo control written in C running on my laptop and running using simulated input. Couldn't route a decent one-layer interface between the ethernet PHY and the PIC32MX795, so I'm having a PCB manufactured for all 3 boards in one piece since the minimum board size was too big for just the control board. Heres the mostly finished design I made during class today.. Still needs a little work since I want to use the USB interface on the PIC32 as well.
Minimum order is 3 identical PCBs, so if they work correctly then I will have 2 complete systems available to whoever wants them. ($40 each for PCBs only + part list, at cost for me; or $250 fully soldered.)
![[Image: ExpressPCB1.png]](http://mb300sd.net/random/ExpressPCB1.png)
This post was last modified: 02-18-2010, 10:49 PM by 300SD81.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
Another update.
Both the actuator and sensor boards have been working pretty good. I have the basic algorithm for turbo control written in C running on my laptop and running using simulated input. Couldn't route a decent one-layer interface between the ethernet PHY and the PIC32MX795, so I'm having a PCB manufactured for all 3 boards in one piece since the minimum board size was too big for just the control board. Heres the mostly finished design I made during class today.. Still needs a little work since I want to use the USB interface on the PIC32 as well.
Minimum order is 3 identical PCBs, so if they work correctly then I will have 2 complete systems available to whoever wants them. ($40 each for PCBs only + part list, at cost for me; or $250 fully soldered.)
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
03-30-2010, 01:19 PM
#79
I'm reworking the boards now, and decided to just go 4 layer...routing these things with 4 layer board is trivial! Makes me want to make a bunch of stuff I thought I could never do by hand. I think I'm going to send them for manufacturing in a week or so, so if anyone is interested, I'll have the 2 extra PCBs for sale with a full part list and software support as soon as I receive them.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
Well... I lost everything on my hard drive. I'm reworking the boards now, and decided to just go 4 layer...routing these things with 4 layer board is trivial! Makes me want to make a bunch of stuff I thought I could never do by hand. I think I'm going to send them for manufacturing in a week or so, so if anyone is interested, I'll have the 2 extra PCBs for sale with a full part list and software support as soon as I receive them.
Ich liebe meine Autos!
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | 156K Miles | 2nd Owner | EGR Disabled [Removal Pending] | ALDA Removed | Straight Pipes | GT2256V??? | Laser Interceptor | Engine swap over summer, hopefully with GT2256V attached...
1981 Mercedes-Benz 300SD | Odo Stopped at 160K (at least 50K more) | EGR Disabled | ALDA All The Way Out | Straight pipes | FM-870 Remote Start Alarm System | B100 Biodiesel | AC Fixed x2 | Trunk crushed in
| Retired to garage.Excessive speeding? It ain't excessive till I redline!
09-23-2010, 03:05 PM
#82
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
10-19-2010, 11:39 PM
#84
(03-30-2010, 01:19 PM)300SD81 Well... I lost everything on my hard drive.
I would like to buy your V2 controller and a completed 4layer. Reason being I may want to run the VNT from my laptop to tune boost profile off of my usb sensors. I am setting up a 87TDT wagon for towing and all of this work seems to be getting done coincidently as I am about to realize my tow rig goal for the last two years.
Don
racerxoffl
10-19-2010, 11:39 PM #84(03-30-2010, 01:19 PM)300SD81 Well... I lost everything on my hard drive.
I would like to buy your V2 controller and a completed 4layer. Reason being I may want to run the VNT from my laptop to tune boost profile off of my usb sensors. I am setting up a 87TDT wagon for towing and all of this work seems to be getting done coincidently as I am about to realize my tow rig goal for the last two years.
Don
12-01-2010, 10:39 AM
#86
This post was last modified: 12-01-2010, 10:40 AM by winmutt.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
How are you controlling the PWM? The freq is listed in here I believe 8bit at 141hz. If you know how the CAN bus signals the turbo we would certainly like that information. You are using this on a Ford?
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
12-01-2010, 10:53 AM
#87
(11-05-2009, 10:32 AM)Tymbrymi(11-03-2009, 04:01 PM)300SD81 I think this is the basic idea of how the code is gonna work:
1. try to maintain X psi of boost
if boost > X, open vanes unless fully opened
if boost < X, close unless fully closed
2. if exhaust pressure too high, open vanes even if boost < X
3. if egt too high, fully open vanes, sound alarm
For optimal fuel economy, and if you have gobs of free time, the ideal thing to do would be to calculate engine load and only generate enough boost needed for that load. That would require LOTS of tuning though.
Ok, so I am about as new to coding/computer control stuff as you can get (playing with Parallax BasicStamp board), but this has me about 13 different ways of excited! I know I'm quoting an older post, but this may be relevant. Innovate has just released a wideband O2 kit that is programable for use with diesel.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php
Think it would be possible to use the 0-1v or 0-5v output from the gauge to help control vane position (airflow) based on an actual AFR/engine load? For example, use the 0-5v gauge output to tell the computer to tell the actuator to increase airflow when it's rich, and decrease airflow when it's lean. You could set it to just about any AFR you want if I'm not mistaken; or even different AFR for different conditions. Cruise at a very lean AFR and set a slightly richer AFR for WOT?
82 300SD aka The Flyin Pumpkin (Gone): 7.5mm super M-pump, T3 60 trim turbo, Coldish air intake, A/W intercooler, propane injection, SW Boost and EGT gauges, Monark 265 nozzles, ported/polished cylinder head.
84 Euro 300D 4 sp: White with black trunk and hood. Blue cloth interior. Manual everything. 300DT front swaybar. C320 17" wheels. Now with the Flyin Pumpkins engine!
(11-05-2009, 10:32 AM)Tymbrymi(11-03-2009, 04:01 PM)300SD81 I think this is the basic idea of how the code is gonna work:
1. try to maintain X psi of boost
if boost > X, open vanes unless fully opened
if boost < X, close unless fully closed
2. if exhaust pressure too high, open vanes even if boost < X
3. if egt too high, fully open vanes, sound alarm
For optimal fuel economy, and if you have gobs of free time, the ideal thing to do would be to calculate engine load and only generate enough boost needed for that load. That would require LOTS of tuning though.
Ok, so I am about as new to coding/computer control stuff as you can get (playing with Parallax BasicStamp board), but this has me about 13 different ways of excited! I know I'm quoting an older post, but this may be relevant. Innovate has just released a wideband O2 kit that is programable for use with diesel.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php
Think it would be possible to use the 0-1v or 0-5v output from the gauge to help control vane position (airflow) based on an actual AFR/engine load? For example, use the 0-5v gauge output to tell the computer to tell the actuator to increase airflow when it's rich, and decrease airflow when it's lean. You could set it to just about any AFR you want if I'm not mistaken; or even different AFR for different conditions. Cruise at a very lean AFR and set a slightly richer AFR for WOT?
82 300SD aka The Flyin Pumpkin (Gone): 7.5mm super M-pump, T3 60 trim turbo, Coldish air intake, A/W intercooler, propane injection, SW Boost and EGT gauges, Monark 265 nozzles, ported/polished cylinder head.
84 Euro 300D 4 sp: White with black trunk and hood. Blue cloth interior. Manual everything. 300DT front swaybar. C320 17" wheels. Now with the Flyin Pumpkins engine!
12-02-2010, 02:58 AM
#88
Thanks for your reply.(12-01-2010, 10:39 AM)winmutt How are you controlling the PWM? The freq is listed in here I believe 8bit at 141hz.
My PWM signal (~140Hz, 12V) is rather ok, because works fine with other actuator which has the same number.
(12-01-2010, 10:39 AM)winmutt If you know how the CAN bus signals the turbo we would certainly like that information.
Acturator which I can't control via PWM periodically sends CAN messages after turn the power on. I will try to read it... if I will find CAN baudrate.
By the way... actuator which I can control via PWM doesn't send CAN messages at all.
(12-01-2010, 10:39 AM)winmutt You are using this on a Ford?
Yes, it's Ford.
There are two ways to control this actuator (PWM or CAN). I thought this ways my use interchangeably. Am I right? So, why PWM control doesn't work?
My question is still ative: "Is it normal or PWM control fault?"
Best regards,
Darqs
Hi Thanks for your reply.
(12-01-2010, 10:39 AM)winmutt How are you controlling the PWM? The freq is listed in here I believe 8bit at 141hz.
My PWM signal (~140Hz, 12V) is rather ok, because works fine with other actuator which has the same number.
(12-01-2010, 10:39 AM)winmutt If you know how the CAN bus signals the turbo we would certainly like that information.
Acturator which I can't control via PWM periodically sends CAN messages after turn the power on. I will try to read it... if I will find CAN baudrate.
By the way... actuator which I can control via PWM doesn't send CAN messages at all.
(12-01-2010, 10:39 AM)winmutt You are using this on a Ford?
Yes, it's Ford.
There are two ways to control this actuator (PWM or CAN). I thought this ways my use interchangeably. Am I right? So, why PWM control doesn't work?
My question is still ative: "Is it normal or PWM control fault?"
Best regards,
Darqs
12-02-2010, 07:48 AM
#89
(12-02-2010, 02:58 AM)Darqs By the way... actuator which I can control via PWM doesn't send CAN messages at all.
Here's your answer! It appears the controllers have different software. They might have the electronic components for both CAN and PWM on the circuit board, but they apparently don't want both PWM and CAN to be enabled at the same time. Kinda odd in my opinion!
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(12-02-2010, 02:58 AM)Darqs By the way... actuator which I can control via PWM doesn't send CAN messages at all.
Here's your answer! It appears the controllers have different software. They might have the electronic components for both CAN and PWM on the circuit board, but they apparently don't want both PWM and CAN to be enabled at the same time. Kinda odd in my opinion!
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
12-02-2010, 09:07 AM
#90
(12-02-2010, 07:48 AM)Tymbrymi Here's your answer! It appears the controllers have different software. They might have the electronic components for both CAN and PWM on the circuit board, but they apparently don't want both PWM and CAN to be enabled at the same time. Kinda odd in my opinion!
So, let's assume that my actuator broke and I want to buy new one. Because part number are the same I won't be sure if I buy correct actuator: control via PWM or via CAN. Rather strange, isn't it?
Maybe there is some procedure to change actuator control?
Best regards,
Darqs
(12-02-2010, 07:48 AM)Tymbrymi Here's your answer! It appears the controllers have different software. They might have the electronic components for both CAN and PWM on the circuit board, but they apparently don't want both PWM and CAN to be enabled at the same time. Kinda odd in my opinion!
So, let's assume that my actuator broke and I want to buy new one. Because part number are the same I won't be sure if I buy correct actuator: control via PWM or via CAN. Rather strange, isn't it?
Maybe there is some procedure to change actuator control?
Best regards,
Darqs
12-02-2010, 10:03 AM
#91
(12-02-2010, 07:48 AM)Tymbrymi(12-02-2010, 02:58 AM)Darqs By the way... actuator which I can control via PWM doesn't send CAN messages at all.
Here's your answer! It appears the controllers have different software. They might have the electronic components for both CAN and PWM on the circuit board, but they apparently don't want both PWM and CAN to be enabled at the same time. Kinda odd in my opinion!
Is that a wag or you know this for a fact. That would indicate more than likely there is an eeprom somewhere.....
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(12-02-2010, 07:48 AM)Tymbrymi(12-02-2010, 02:58 AM)Darqs By the way... actuator which I can control via PWM doesn't send CAN messages at all.
Here's your answer! It appears the controllers have different software. They might have the electronic components for both CAN and PWM on the circuit board, but they apparently don't want both PWM and CAN to be enabled at the same time. Kinda odd in my opinion!
Is that a wag or you know this for a fact. That would indicate more than likely there is an eeprom somewhere.....
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
12-02-2010, 12:31 PM
#92
(12-02-2010, 10:03 AM)winmutt Is that a wag or you know this for a fact. That would indicate more than likely there is an eeprom somewhere.....
Not quite a WAG, but it makes a whole lot of sense. Not sure what to make about the PN thing though. You sure there isn't a revision number on the outside somewhere? I don't have my actuator anymore...
There is flash memory in most microcontrollers, which is what they'd use to load their program.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
(12-02-2010, 10:03 AM)winmutt Is that a wag or you know this for a fact. That would indicate more than likely there is an eeprom somewhere.....
Not quite a WAG, but it makes a whole lot of sense. Not sure what to make about the PN thing though. You sure there isn't a revision number on the outside somewhere? I don't have my actuator anymore...
There is flash memory in most microcontrollers, which is what they'd use to load their program.
John Robbins
'05 E320 CDI - 118k - Faaaaaast!!
'87 300TD - 317k - Cracked head... but an OM606 is on the way!
'79 300SD - 295k - Bad engine = project car!
12-06-2010, 01:32 PM
#93
82 300SD aka The Flyin Pumpkin (Gone): 7.5mm super M-pump, T3 60 trim turbo, Coldish air intake, A/W intercooler, propane injection, SW Boost and EGT gauges, Monark 265 nozzles, ported/polished cylinder head.
84 Euro 300D 4 sp: White with black trunk and hood. Blue cloth interior. Manual everything. 300DT front swaybar. C320 17" wheels. Now with the Flyin Pumpkins engine!
Just ordered up a GT2359V, should have it in about a week. I'll be watching this thread with even more interest now!
82 300SD aka The Flyin Pumpkin (Gone): 7.5mm super M-pump, T3 60 trim turbo, Coldish air intake, A/W intercooler, propane injection, SW Boost and EGT gauges, Monark 265 nozzles, ported/polished cylinder head.
84 Euro 300D 4 sp: White with black trunk and hood. Blue cloth interior. Manual everything. 300DT front swaybar. C320 17" wheels. Now with the Flyin Pumpkins engine!
12-07-2010, 04:07 PM
#94
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
12-07-2010, 04:07 PM #94Express PCB is a great company
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
12-08-2010, 06:31 AM
#95
(12-01-2010, 10:39 AM)winmutt If you know how the CAN bus signals the turbo we would certainly like that information. You are using this on a Ford?
Hi
CAN message from Hella actuator:
0x00 0x00 0x06 0x58, 0x08, 0x04 0x00 0x00 0xAD 0x00 0x15 0x00 0x00
Message ID - 4 bytes
Data length - next 1 byte
Data - next 8 bytes
Who knows what Data mean?
Who knows CAN message form engine ecu to Hella actuator?
Best regards,
Darqs
(12-01-2010, 10:39 AM)winmutt If you know how the CAN bus signals the turbo we would certainly like that information. You are using this on a Ford?
Hi
CAN message from Hella actuator:
0x00 0x00 0x06 0x58, 0x08, 0x04 0x00 0x00 0xAD 0x00 0x15 0x00 0x00
Message ID - 4 bytes
Data length - next 1 byte
Data - next 8 bytes
Who knows what Data mean?
Who knows CAN message form engine ecu to Hella actuator?
Best regards,
Darqs
12-08-2010, 10:25 AM
#96
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
This is the message from the Hella to the ECU or ECU to Hella? I would imagine it is just a status packet if its from the Hella.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
12-09-2010, 02:24 AM
#97
(12-08-2010, 10:25 AM)winmutt This is the message from the Hella to the ECU or ECU to Hella?
This is the CAN message FROM Hella actuator to the engine ECU.
(12-08-2010, 10:25 AM)winmutt I would imagine it is just a status packet if its from the Hella.
So it would seem.
Do you know something about CAN message form engine ECU to Hella actuator?
Best regards,
Darqs
(12-08-2010, 10:25 AM)winmutt This is the message from the Hella to the ECU or ECU to Hella?
This is the CAN message FROM Hella actuator to the engine ECU.
(12-08-2010, 10:25 AM)winmutt I would imagine it is just a status packet if its from the Hella.
So it would seem.
Do you know something about CAN message form engine ECU to Hella actuator?
Best regards,
Darqs
12-09-2010, 11:32 AM
#98
What is needed is to find someone willing to read the codes during normal operation. I believe this actuator is used with CAN in europe in Fords. Mondeo? maybe? I would look on ford forums and see if anyone has pulled up these details.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
I know very little about CAN. What I would expect is that the Hella actuator gives a status, ready for work, current vane positions etc.
What is needed is to find someone willing to read the codes during normal operation. I believe this actuator is used with CAN in europe in Fords. Mondeo? maybe? I would look on ford forums and see if anyone has pulled up these details.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
12-15-2010, 03:22 AM
#99
(12-09-2010, 11:32 AM)winmutt I know very little about CAN. What I would expect is that the Hella actuator gives a status, ready for work, current vane positions etc.
Look at this CAN message from Hella actuator:
0x00 0x00 0x06 0x58, 0x08, 0x04 0x00 0x00 0xAD 0x00 0x15 0x00 0x00
and the first (top) CAN message on this picture:
I try to explain, but I'm not sure:
byte 0x04 - Mode
bytes 0x00, 0x00 - Actual position
byte 0xAD - Status
bytes 0x00, 0x15 - Temperature
bytes 0x00, 0x00 - Commanded position
But... what is "position command" look like?
(12-09-2010, 11:32 AM)winmutt What is needed is to find someone willing to read the codes during normal operation.1. Car with actuator via CAN control.
2. CAN bus monitor.
(12-09-2010, 11:32 AM)winmutt I believe this actuator is used with CAN in europe in Fords. Mondeo? maybe? I would look on ford forums and see if anyone has pulled up these details.I don't know if only in Fords. It's strange that actuators controled via PWM have the same part number like actuators controled via CAN! What is the difference?
Best regards,
Darqs
Hi
(12-09-2010, 11:32 AM)winmutt I know very little about CAN. What I would expect is that the Hella actuator gives a status, ready for work, current vane positions etc.
Look at this CAN message from Hella actuator:
0x00 0x00 0x06 0x58, 0x08, 0x04 0x00 0x00 0xAD 0x00 0x15 0x00 0x00
and the first (top) CAN message on this picture:
I try to explain, but I'm not sure:
byte 0x04 - Mode
bytes 0x00, 0x00 - Actual position
byte 0xAD - Status
bytes 0x00, 0x15 - Temperature
bytes 0x00, 0x00 - Commanded position
But... what is "position command" look like?
(12-09-2010, 11:32 AM)winmutt What is needed is to find someone willing to read the codes during normal operation.1. Car with actuator via CAN control.
2. CAN bus monitor.
(12-09-2010, 11:32 AM)winmutt I believe this actuator is used with CAN in europe in Fords. Mondeo? maybe? I would look on ford forums and see if anyone has pulled up these details.I don't know if only in Fords. It's strange that actuators controled via PWM have the same part number like actuators controled via CAN! What is the difference?
Best regards,
Darqs
12-15-2010, 09:14 AM
#100
"command" on the other hand is a different story, I would imagine you will just have to cycle through 256 numbers to find out
Its amazing how much data that thing is providing, stuff you would never know
Where did you get this image?
What was the can baudrate? Are you sure the PWM is not working? I have a hard time the same part number has different interfaces.
I guess temperature is ambient...
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Well "position" is easy enough I would assume its 0X00 0X00
"command" on the other hand is a different story, I would imagine you will just have to cycle through 256 numbers to find out
Its amazing how much data that thing is providing, stuff you would never know
Where did you get this image?
What was the can baudrate? Are you sure the PWM is not working? I have a hard time the same part number has different interfaces.
I guess temperature is ambient...
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
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