6 Speed Manual for a 617 Turbo
6 Speed Manual for a 617 Turbo
So ive got a 617 and would like a better transmission. My requirements are as follows. I must be able to keep my 617. Id like a sub 1 to 1 6th gear, something in the range of 0.80:1 or 0.83:1. Which would imply a 1:1 5th gear.
What transmissions are viable for this?
What would i need to modify for each?
Can they handle 500 HP at a low ish RPM just to be safe for longevity (Im thinking i should be pulling 300-400hp with 8mm elements on a MW pump with an HY35 so id like to know my transmission can handle more than that so i dont blow it.)?
SupremeTurbo617
11-05-2014, 08:38 PM #1Hey guys, here i am again. I am NOT looking to buy a 6 speed today but i am data mining for possibles.
So ive got a 617 and would like a better transmission. My requirements are as follows. I must be able to keep my 617. Id like a sub 1 to 1 6th gear, something in the range of 0.80:1 or 0.83:1. Which would imply a 1:1 5th gear.
What transmissions are viable for this?
What would i need to modify for each?
Can they handle 500 HP at a low ish RPM just to be safe for longevity (Im thinking i should be pulling 300-400hp with 8mm elements on a MW pump with an HY35 so id like to know my transmission can handle more than that so i dont blow it.)?
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
well, are you willing and able to (a) design and fabricate an adapter plate or (b) do a bellhousing cut & weld job?
english red rat rod 1977 240D, OM617.952 burning B99.9, iron 4-speed & 2.88 diff, 195/60/R14 on alloys, 5mph bumpers, battery in the trunk, 25mm swaybar, 4x ECE H4 lamps, double brake lamps, deleted sunroof, export zoll & california blue plates
SupremeTurbo617
11-05-2014, 10:16 PM #3Im willing to design and find a shop to fab it and as per the bell housing, same thing, ill tell them what to do and have it done since my welding experiace is a bit, shall we say lacking. Ill weld brackets and stuff but id like a bit more stregnth to my transmission.
I know of a guy basically giving away (2) Getrag 420g 6-speeds because parts are either a) unavailable, or b) too costly.
That being said, Getrag & ZF both make 6-speeds that will (theoretically) work with an OM617.
They will need a lot of engineering & fabrication!
I'd recommend a 5-speed like the Getrag 265/6 found in some pre-E30 Beemers. Its got a removable bellhousing so if you use/make a bell that already has the 617 block bolt pattern then all you need to modify are the (4) trans to bell bolt holes. Easy.
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
Whatever transmission you end up choosing, be sure to have a reliable source for replacement internal parts.
I know of a guy basically giving away (2) Getrag 420g 6-speeds because parts are either a) unavailable, or b) too costly.
That being said, Getrag & ZF both make 6-speeds that will (theoretically) work with an OM617.
They will need a lot of engineering & fabrication!
I'd recommend a 5-speed like the Getrag 265/6 found in some pre-E30 Beemers. Its got a removable bellhousing so if you use/make a bell that already has the 617 block bolt pattern then all you need to modify are the (4) trans to bell bolt holes. Easy.
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
(11-06-2014, 01:46 PM)CRD4x4 Whatever transmission you end up choosing, be sure to have a reliable source for replacement internal parts.Good idea man!
I know of a guy basically giving away (2) Getrag 420g 6-speeds because parts are either a) unavailable, or b) too costly.
That being said, Getrag & ZF both make 6-speeds that will (theoretically) work with an OM617.
They will need a lot of engineering & fabrication!
I'd recommend a 5-speed like the Getrag 265/6 found in some pre-E30 Beemers. Its got a removable bellhousing so if you use/make a bell that already has the 617 block bolt pattern then all you need to modify are the (4) trans to bell bolt holes. Easy.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(11-06-2014, 01:46 PM)CRD4x4 Whatever transmission you end up choosing, be sure to have a reliable source for replacement internal parts.Good idea man!
I know of a guy basically giving away (2) Getrag 420g 6-speeds because parts are either a) unavailable, or b) too costly.
That being said, Getrag & ZF both make 6-speeds that will (theoretically) work with an OM617.
They will need a lot of engineering & fabrication!
I'd recommend a 5-speed like the Getrag 265/6 found in some pre-E30 Beemers. Its got a removable bellhousing so if you use/make a bell that already has the 617 block bolt pattern then all you need to modify are the (4) trans to bell bolt holes. Easy.
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
1st 3.82 : 1
2nd 2.20 : 1
3rd 1.40 : 1
4th 1.00 : 1
5th 0.81 : 1
R 3.71 : 1
There is no "266" but there is a 265/5 which is the close ratio "dogleg" version found in E30 M3 with a 1:1 5th gear. Never available in the USA and not good for fuel consumption.
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
Getrag 265/6
1st 3.82 : 1
2nd 2.20 : 1
3rd 1.40 : 1
4th 1.00 : 1
5th 0.81 : 1
R 3.71 : 1
There is no "266" but there is a 265/5 which is the close ratio "dogleg" version found in E30 M3 with a 1:1 5th gear. Never available in the USA and not good for fuel consumption.
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
SupremeTurbo617
11-06-2014, 02:43 PM #8Im sorry i read 265/6 as a 265 OR 266, my bad thank you for the info, those gears looks good for a 5 speed, 1 to 2 is a bit steep but im sure it can handle it since it will probably shift near my torque peak. Now i wonder where i can find one of these 265/6 es... To craigslist!
I: 3.82; II: 2.20; III: 1.40; IV: 1.0; V: 0.81; R: 3.71
I have one in my 240D and the gearing is good.So you will be fine.
Another possibility is modifying the bellhousing of a newer MB 6 speed box.
Here are the ratios:
716.654
1st 5.014
2nd 2.831
3rd 1.789
4th 1.256
5th 1.00
6th 0.828
Reverse 4.569
Max Torque Input: 272ft-lb / 370Nm
Those ratios are IDENTICAL to 717.400 5 speeds used in euro W123s
I: 3.82; II: 2.20; III: 1.40; IV: 1.0; V: 0.81; R: 3.71
I have one in my 240D and the gearing is good.So you will be fine.
Another possibility is modifying the bellhousing of a newer MB 6 speed box.
Here are the ratios:
716.654
1st 5.014
2nd 2.831
3rd 1.789
4th 1.256
5th 1.00
6th 0.828
Reverse 4.569
Max Torque Input: 272ft-lb / 370Nm
(11-06-2014, 03:21 PM)Petar Those ratios are IDENTICAL to 717.400 5 speeds used in euro W123s
I: 3.82; II: 2.20; III: 1.40; IV: 1.0; V: 0.81; R: 3.71
I have one in my 240D and the gearing is good.So you will be fine.
Another possibility is modifying the bellhousing of a newer MB 6 speed box.
Here are the ratios:
716.654
1st 5.014
2nd 2.831
3rd 1.789
4th 1.256
5th 1.00
6th 0.828
Reverse 4.569
Max Torque Input: 272ft-lb / 370Nm
First off, if that is the case why wouldn't i just get a 717.400 and bolt her on?
Secondly that max torque would be a HUGE problem for me if i were to use a 716.654 while more gears are good i cant risk such an investment just to blow it up the second i hit full throttle which, by the way, would be the second i turned the key. I always have my foot to the floor unless im behind someone or i sense a cop.
SupremeTurbo617
11-06-2014, 03:27 PM #10(11-06-2014, 03:21 PM)Petar Those ratios are IDENTICAL to 717.400 5 speeds used in euro W123s
I: 3.82; II: 2.20; III: 1.40; IV: 1.0; V: 0.81; R: 3.71
I have one in my 240D and the gearing is good.So you will be fine.
Another possibility is modifying the bellhousing of a newer MB 6 speed box.
Here are the ratios:
716.654
1st 5.014
2nd 2.831
3rd 1.789
4th 1.256
5th 1.00
6th 0.828
Reverse 4.569
Max Torque Input: 272ft-lb / 370Nm
First off, if that is the case why wouldn't i just get a 717.400 and bolt her on?
Secondly that max torque would be a HUGE problem for me if i were to use a 716.654 while more gears are good i cant risk such an investment just to blow it up the second i hit full throttle which, by the way, would be the second i turned the key. I always have my foot to the floor unless im behind someone or i sense a cop.
the 270cdi that has that gearbox i think delivers 450nm something when chip tuned.
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
swampmonkey
11-06-2014, 05:57 PM #11Hansebanger hasa 370nm rated gearbox on his om606 450hp w124... i dont think you will get numbers near his with a 617, so a 370nm sixspeed will probably do just fine
the 270cdi that has that gearbox i think delivers 450nm something when chip tuned.
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
SupremeTurbo617
11-06-2014, 06:11 PM #12You're right i forgot about his build! As per numbers we shall see. I fully intend to hit a solid 400 plus especially if i go crazy and find a nos+propane kit.
(11-06-2014, 03:27 PM)SupremeTurbo617(11-06-2014, 03:21 PM)Petar Those ratios are IDENTICAL to 717.400 5 speeds used in euro W123s
I: 3.82; II: 2.20; III: 1.40; IV: 1.0; V: 0.81; R: 3.71
I have one in my 240D and the gearing is good.So you will be fine.
Another possibility is modifying the bellhousing of a newer MB 6 speed box.
Here are the ratios:
716.654
1st 5.014
2nd 2.831
3rd 1.789
4th 1.256
5th 1.00
6th 0.828
Reverse 4.569
Max Torque Input: 272ft-lb / 370Nm
First off, if that is the case why wouldn't i just get a 717.400 and bolt her on?
Secondly that max torque would be a HUGE problem for me if i were to use a 716.654 while more gears are good i cant risk such an investment just to blow it up the second i hit full throttle which, by the way, would be the second i turned the key. I always have my foot to the floor unless im behind someone or i sense a cop.
You can bolt up a 717.400 .... if you ever find one in the states
It is very rare even here in europe.
However it is rated at only 270 NM
Plus mercedes five speeds have a reputation for blowing up the third gear in 400+ hp superturbo applications.
(11-06-2014, 06:11 PM)SupremeTurbo617 You're right i forgot about his build! As per numbers we shall see. I fully intend to hit a solid 400 plus especially if i go crazy and find a nos+propane kit.
That might be a bit too much for a 617...
(11-06-2014, 03:27 PM)SupremeTurbo617(11-06-2014, 03:21 PM)Petar Those ratios are IDENTICAL to 717.400 5 speeds used in euro W123s
I: 3.82; II: 2.20; III: 1.40; IV: 1.0; V: 0.81; R: 3.71
I have one in my 240D and the gearing is good.So you will be fine.
Another possibility is modifying the bellhousing of a newer MB 6 speed box.
Here are the ratios:
716.654
1st 5.014
2nd 2.831
3rd 1.789
4th 1.256
5th 1.00
6th 0.828
Reverse 4.569
Max Torque Input: 272ft-lb / 370Nm
First off, if that is the case why wouldn't i just get a 717.400 and bolt her on?
Secondly that max torque would be a HUGE problem for me if i were to use a 716.654 while more gears are good i cant risk such an investment just to blow it up the second i hit full throttle which, by the way, would be the second i turned the key. I always have my foot to the floor unless im behind someone or i sense a cop.
You can bolt up a 717.400 .... if you ever find one in the states
It is very rare even here in europe.
However it is rated at only 270 NM
Plus mercedes five speeds have a reputation for blowing up the third gear in 400+ hp superturbo applications.
(11-06-2014, 06:11 PM)SupremeTurbo617 You're right i forgot about his build! As per numbers we shall see. I fully intend to hit a solid 400 plus especially if i go crazy and find a nos+propane kit.
That might be a bit too much for a 617...
(11-07-2014, 09:31 AM)Petar That might be a bit too much for a 617...
I dont know, i think i can pull it off if i play my cards right. Worst comes to worse ill sell it to someone on here and go 606 for shits and giggles.
SupremeTurbo617
11-07-2014, 10:13 AM #14(11-07-2014, 09:31 AM)Petar That might be a bit too much for a 617...
I dont know, i think i can pull it off if i play my cards right. Worst comes to worse ill sell it to someone on here and go 606 for shits and giggles.
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