Difference between MW and M pumps?
Difference between MW and M pumps?
GileadGarage
09-23-2008, 07:04 PM #1Whats the difference? I have only seen the MW pump on the 617's I've had. Just curious.
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ForcedInduction
09-23-2008, 07:55 PM
#2
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I'm going to Germany soon, I should try and grab one (or some).
Thanks
GileadGarage
09-23-2008, 09:34 PM #3Huh, I've never seen one of those. So I guess this is the Euro pump I have heard about.
I'm going to Germany soon, I should try and grab one (or some).
Thanks
I lived in CO for 8 yrs, good times (a little too good)
GileadGarage
09-23-2008, 10:13 PM #5Forced Induction, I see you are located in Federal Heights CO, I used to work at Al's Autohaus in Denver, do you know of that place? I worked there briefly while in School, I'll never forget when I doubled up an o-ring on an oil/filter change and made a huge mess in front of Al and the customer.
I lived in CO for 8 yrs, good times (a little too good)
According to the tables in the book the MW pump has a higher injected volume per stroke; 150 cubic mm to the M's 60.
The MW pump has a higher Max permissible pressure at jet; 1,100 bar to the M's 550.
The MW has a higher Max power output per cylinder; 36 kW to the M's 20.
But the M pump has a Max rated speed of 5,000 rpm to the MW's 2,600.
So isn't this a question of changing or modifying the governor of the MW? Unfortunately, the Bosch book doesn't cover the RW governor (that I assume is bolted to the MW pump for the W123 turbo diesels since those are the letters stamped on my MW pump). The M pump looks to have a RSF governor. Could we simply bolt on a RSF governor to the MW?
Here's what the Bosch book has to say about the RSF governor;
Quote:The Type RSF centrifugal mechanical governor was designed specifically as a minimum/maximum-speed governor for motor-vehicle engines with Type M in-line diesel fuel-injection pumps. It is for road-going vehicles which only require limitation of the minimum and maximum speeds. Within the uncontrolled intermediate-speed range, the fuel-injection pump's control rack is directly operated by the accelerator pedal under the control of the driver so as to obtain the required engine torgue.
The Type RSF governor meets the demanding requirements in respect to governor characteristics, ease of operation and driver convenience. it is intended primarily for fast-revving diesel engines in cars.
Is anyone familiar with the RW governor? Anyone have any literature on it? Anyway I hope this is a good place to start.
Any input is greatly appreciated as I'm just starting out with these diesels.
Section106
09-23-2008, 10:28 PM #6I've been reading a little in this Bosch book and it seems to me that the only difference as far as better performance is the rated RPMs.
According to the tables in the book the MW pump has a higher injected volume per stroke; 150 cubic mm to the M's 60.
The MW pump has a higher Max permissible pressure at jet; 1,100 bar to the M's 550.
The MW has a higher Max power output per cylinder; 36 kW to the M's 20.
But the M pump has a Max rated speed of 5,000 rpm to the MW's 2,600.
So isn't this a question of changing or modifying the governor of the MW? Unfortunately, the Bosch book doesn't cover the RW governor (that I assume is bolted to the MW pump for the W123 turbo diesels since those are the letters stamped on my MW pump). The M pump looks to have a RSF governor. Could we simply bolt on a RSF governor to the MW?
Here's what the Bosch book has to say about the RSF governor;
Quote:The Type RSF centrifugal mechanical governor was designed specifically as a minimum/maximum-speed governor for motor-vehicle engines with Type M in-line diesel fuel-injection pumps. It is for road-going vehicles which only require limitation of the minimum and maximum speeds. Within the uncontrolled intermediate-speed range, the fuel-injection pump's control rack is directly operated by the accelerator pedal under the control of the driver so as to obtain the required engine torgue.
The Type RSF governor meets the demanding requirements in respect to governor characteristics, ease of operation and driver convenience. it is intended primarily for fast-revving diesel engines in cars.
Is anyone familiar with the RW governor? Anyone have any literature on it? Anyway I hope this is a good place to start.
Any input is greatly appreciated as I'm just starting out with these diesels.
GileadGarage I used to work at Al's Autohaus in Denver, do you know of that place?I went there once about 3 years ago to scope out a possible donor engine. They had some VERY nice cars.
Quote:So isn't this a question of changing or modifying the governor of the MW?No, its a question of parts availability.
The MW on our engines use 5.5mm plungers and the next size up is 10mm from an IH DT466. Thats over 3x the fuel volume and far more than even the most radical custom-rebuilt 617 can handle.
The M-pump comes stock with 5.5mm as well but there are 6mm and 7mm plungers commonly available.
With 5.5mm, a 5-cylinder is limited to around 140hp at the crank. 6mm is somewhere around 250hp, 7mm is around 420hp. If the engine could stand it, the 10mm plungers could pump 900hp worth of fuel!
ForcedInduction
09-23-2008, 10:43 PM
#7
GileadGarage I used to work at Al's Autohaus in Denver, do you know of that place?I went there once about 3 years ago to scope out a possible donor engine. They had some VERY nice cars.
Quote:So isn't this a question of changing or modifying the governor of the MW?No, its a question of parts availability.
The MW on our engines use 5.5mm plungers and the next size up is 10mm from an IH DT466. Thats over 3x the fuel volume and far more than even the most radical custom-rebuilt 617 can handle.
The M-pump comes stock with 5.5mm as well but there are 6mm and 7mm plungers commonly available.
With 5.5mm, a 5-cylinder is limited to around 140hp at the crank. 6mm is somewhere around 250hp, 7mm is around 420hp. If the engine could stand it, the 10mm plungers could pump 900hp worth of fuel!
Aside from the injector lines, what are the other defining physical differences between the two pumps if im going yard hopping? What cars would you typically find them on, or are they only euro imports?
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
I was very happy to discover this thread, as I was asking the exact same question. Thanks forced for the clear explanation on why you would want an M pump!
Aside from the injector lines, what are the other defining physical differences between the two pumps if im going yard hopping? What cars would you typically find them on, or are they only euro imports?
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
ForcedInduction
04-08-2010, 08:24 AM
#9
Only on euro models. They are visually very different, its pretty easy to spot one because it makes that side of the engine bay look odd from the norm.
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