How to determine low wear om617
How to determine low wear om617
I've got to pick the 2 best engines out of 4 om617's on stands. Second to compression check I think timing chain stretch to be the best indicator of wear (only with original chain). Is my thinking flawed or is there a better (simple) way to pick the best engine.
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
09-15-2014, 12:33 PM #2If they were running I would say check blowby, otherwise if you can get a hold of a leakdown tester that would also be pretty beneficial
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
http://www.amazon.com/Wall-Inspection-Ca...tion+scope, probably need something smaller to get into the GP hole and down.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
(09-15-2014, 12:33 PM)sassparilla_kid get a hold of a leakdown tester that would also be pretty beneficialIdeally, you would get them started/running on the stand before leakdown testing since running test at operating temp is highest verbosity. Even on a cold engine, a leakdown is the better strategy as this will still possibly help locate sources of wear. Unnecessary, but you can reconfig the tester if you absolutely need a compression test. And save the consumables/labor by not removing the front cover, you can get chain stretch using other methods.
(09-15-2014, 03:36 PM)barrote choose the ones wich were not open, u can see wrench marks on the bolt heads.
is a good indicator that the engine was not abused previously, and then compare with compression press.
not open max com press.
regards
+1
Sage advice. A pro will replace items (read: cover tracks) like head bolts/studs and no one's the wiser until daylight shines. Is why they're pros.
MBZ123
This:
(09-15-2014, 12:33 PM)sassparilla_kid get a hold of a leakdown tester that would also be pretty beneficialIdeally, you would get them started/running on the stand before leakdown testing since running test at operating temp is highest verbosity. Even on a cold engine, a leakdown is the better strategy as this will still possibly help locate sources of wear. Unnecessary, but you can reconfig the tester if you absolutely need a compression test. And save the consumables/labor by not removing the front cover, you can get chain stretch using other methods.
(09-15-2014, 03:36 PM)barrote choose the ones wich were not open, u can see wrench marks on the bolt heads.
is a good indicator that the engine was not abused previously, and then compare with compression press.
not open max com press.
regards
+1
Sage advice. A pro will replace items (read: cover tracks) like head bolts/studs and no one's the wiser until daylight shines. Is why they're pros.
MBZ123
i bet the fellow in the junk yard will replace bolts on the engine cover, by what new ones, or old ones removed with wrench marks???
i bet some fellows that post here can´t see the diff btw a bolt and a nut!!!
magic is on the hiding not on the trick!!!
regards
FD,
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yep ,
i bet the fellow in the junk yard will replace bolts on the engine cover, by what new ones, or old ones removed with wrench marks???
i bet some fellows that post here can´t see the diff btw a bolt and a nut!!!
magic is on the hiding not on the trick!!!
regards
FD,
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(09-16-2014, 07:43 AM)barrote the fellow in the junk yard
Ahhh, I missed the part where it said the motors in question came from the wrecker.
In that case cross fingers and hope for this:
(09-16-2014, 08:14 AM)winmutt be prepared to have one engine out of two!
I meant more along the lines of cylinder head bolts and the like. Higher level work and shadetrees halfazzing that kinda work. FWIW, I've removed valve cover bolts repeatedly without any marring to them so relying on that to guage condition is unreliable at best.
(09-16-2014, 07:43 AM)barrote magic is on the hiding not on the trick!!!
Very true. I know this from experience. A lesson for which I paid dearly.
OP = for the record, a compression test on a cold engine is basically worthless. It will tell you whether your numbers are within spec IF those numbers even exist. An engine at operating temp tells no lies.
Can't be bothered you say? OK, invert the motors on stand, remove the oil pan and have a go with the brake cleaner and feeler gauges for the least expensive path. Your money, your decision.
O BTW, where are you located and what do you intend on doing with the two that don't make the cut?
MBZ123
(09-16-2014, 07:43 AM)barrote the fellow in the junk yard
Ahhh, I missed the part where it said the motors in question came from the wrecker.
In that case cross fingers and hope for this:
(09-16-2014, 08:14 AM)winmutt be prepared to have one engine out of two!
I meant more along the lines of cylinder head bolts and the like. Higher level work and shadetrees halfazzing that kinda work. FWIW, I've removed valve cover bolts repeatedly without any marring to them so relying on that to guage condition is unreliable at best.
(09-16-2014, 07:43 AM)barrote magic is on the hiding not on the trick!!!
Very true. I know this from experience. A lesson for which I paid dearly.
OP = for the record, a compression test on a cold engine is basically worthless. It will tell you whether your numbers are within spec IF those numbers even exist. An engine at operating temp tells no lies.
Can't be bothered you say? OK, invert the motors on stand, remove the oil pan and have a go with the brake cleaner and feeler gauges for the least expensive path. Your money, your decision.
O BTW, where are you located and what do you intend on doing with the two that don't make the cut?
MBZ123
. that´s how we do it in here, but maybe u can´t do it where u are, but i understand u´re still in the 61X era. regards
FD,
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where i am, we start the engine in top of a table, lissen to it, watch is behaviour, buy it or sent it to the scrap shreder . that´s how we do it in here, but maybe u can´t do it where u are, but i understand u´re still in the 61X era.
regards
FD,
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And only then you know for sure what you have.
DiseaselWeasel
09-18-2014, 03:48 AM #10Read a crystall ball... Or open them up. Compression test, determine chain stretch - then of with the head & oil pan. Inspect & measure bores, inspect & measure big & smal ends.
And only then you know for sure what you have.
My personal engine came out of my daily driver 300d with 162k original, bought the car just for an engine I knew ran well so i didn't have to mess around . Here's my build http://www.dieselbombers.com/diesel-engi...hread.html
(09-16-2014, 01:16 PM)barrote where i am, we start the engine in top of a table, lissen to it, watch is behaviour, buy it or sent it to the scrap shreder
regards
Although I would love a 606, it will not work easily for our purposes, check the build link I posted.
(09-16-2014, 09:27 AM)mbz123(09-16-2014, 07:43 AM)barrote the fellow in the junk yard
Ahhh, I missed the part where it said the motors in question came from the wrecker.
In that case cross fingers and hope for this:
(09-16-2014, 08:14 AM)winmutt be prepared to have one engine out of two!
I meant more along the lines of cylinder head bolts and the like. Higher level work and shadetrees halfazzing that kinda work. FWIW, I've removed valve cover bolts repeatedly without any marring to them so relying on that to guage condition is unreliable at best.
(09-16-2014, 07:43 AM)barrote magic is on the hiding not on the trick!!!
Very true. I know this from experience. A lesson for which I paid dearly.
OP = for the record, a compression test on a cold engine is basically worthless. It will tell you whether your numbers are within spec IF those numbers even exist. An engine at operating temp tells no lies.
Can't be bothered you say? OK, invert the motors on stand, remove the oil pan and have a go with the brake cleaner and feeler gauges for the least expensive path. Your money, your decision.
O BTW, where are you located and what do you intend on doing with the two that don't make the cut?
MBZ123
Located in Florida. Gonna build two Cherokee's identical to mine as seen here
http://www.dieselbombers.com/diesel-engi...hread.html
Not sure what will become of the ones that don't make the cut.
Here's the situation. A friend of mine has 4 of these on stands and has asked me to help him determine the best 2 of the 4. Starting the engine(s) is not an option so warm compression testing is out. He's been collecting these for some time and at least three came out of running vehicle's. Just looking for a quick and dirty method to pick the engines to start with. Worst case scenario I pick the wrong one and a 2000 year old night tells me "he chose poorly" and I turn to dust.
My personal engine came out of my daily driver 300d with 162k original, bought the car just for an engine I knew ran well so i didn't have to mess around . Here's my build http://www.dieselbombers.com/diesel-engi...hread.html
(09-16-2014, 01:16 PM)barrote where i am, we start the engine in top of a table, lissen to it, watch is behaviour, buy it or sent it to the scrap shreder
regards
Although I would love a 606, it will not work easily for our purposes, check the build link I posted.
(09-16-2014, 09:27 AM)mbz123(09-16-2014, 07:43 AM)barrote the fellow in the junk yard
Ahhh, I missed the part where it said the motors in question came from the wrecker.
In that case cross fingers and hope for this:
(09-16-2014, 08:14 AM)winmutt be prepared to have one engine out of two!
I meant more along the lines of cylinder head bolts and the like. Higher level work and shadetrees halfazzing that kinda work. FWIW, I've removed valve cover bolts repeatedly without any marring to them so relying on that to guage condition is unreliable at best.
(09-16-2014, 07:43 AM)barrote magic is on the hiding not on the trick!!!
Very true. I know this from experience. A lesson for which I paid dearly.
OP = for the record, a compression test on a cold engine is basically worthless. It will tell you whether your numbers are within spec IF those numbers even exist. An engine at operating temp tells no lies.
Can't be bothered you say? OK, invert the motors on stand, remove the oil pan and have a go with the brake cleaner and feeler gauges for the least expensive path. Your money, your decision.
O BTW, where are you located and what do you intend on doing with the two that don't make the cut?
MBZ123
Located in Florida. Gonna build two Cherokee's identical to mine as seen here
http://www.dieselbombers.com/diesel-engi...hread.html
Not sure what will become of the ones that don't make the cut.
in here we just run like hell from thiss cherokee´s, they just stink problems.
in my cuntry is very dificult to install a diff engine in a car , even having a N/A to TD envolves a lot of coloured papers and Money,
What i dont understand is WHY, are u guys having that all trouble to install a WWII type engine in a cross country vehicle
have u ever considered installing a Toyota 4.0 v6 or even the 3.5 DOHC 4 cyl. wich are far better engines than a 61X series engines.
i would understood if u install a 602/3 instead of 605/6, cause of thoughness reasons, even that is quite arguable that a 602 last more than a 605, but the power hum is like changing from a horse to a English race horse.
regards
FD,
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i see your point EVENGLASS,
in here we just run like hell from thiss cherokee´s, they just stink problems.
in my cuntry is very dificult to install a diff engine in a car , even having a N/A to TD envolves a lot of coloured papers and Money,
What i dont understand is WHY, are u guys having that all trouble to install a WWII type engine in a cross country vehicle
have u ever considered installing a Toyota 4.0 v6 or even the 3.5 DOHC 4 cyl. wich are far better engines than a 61X series engines.
i would understood if u install a 602/3 instead of 605/6, cause of thoughness reasons, even that is quite arguable that a 602 last more than a 605, but the power hum is like changing from a horse to a English race horse.
regards
FD,
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i love the cherokee, had a couple and they will go almost anywhere stock, jumped ice burms, dirt mounds drove through mud up to the doors ect. just awesome, lots of rust issues though.
because we got almost no diesel 4x4 except 3/4 ton plus trucks. and we got almost no little diesels, nissans r rare, toyotas rarer, even the isuzu from a luv or d50 diesel is hard to find, so we have to source our diesel from something else, and these mercedes r great, way over built engines, and the most common little diesel here.
i love the cherokee, had a couple and they will go almost anywhere stock, jumped ice burms, dirt mounds drove through mud up to the doors ect. just awesome, lots of rust issues though.
(09-18-2014, 03:55 PM)Edian727 because we got almost no diesel 4x4 except 3/4 ton plus trucks. and we got almost no little diesels, nissans r rare, toyotas rarer, even the isuzu from a luv or d50 diesel is hard to find, so we have to source our diesel from something else, and these mercedes r great, way over built engines, and the most common little diesel here.
i love the cherokee, had a couple and they will go almost anywhere stock, jumped ice burms, dirt mounds drove through mud up to the doors ect. just awesome, lots of rust issues though.
X2, all correct and I'm trying to move away from gasoline. 617 is by far the best option at this time. Not sure how they build the Cherokee's over seas but they have been capable reliable and cheap since 1984. My xj on 31' tires will do what my friends jk on 35' will do, and I didn't pay 30k for it.
(09-18-2014, 03:55 PM)Edian727 because we got almost no diesel 4x4 except 3/4 ton plus trucks. and we got almost no little diesels, nissans r rare, toyotas rarer, even the isuzu from a luv or d50 diesel is hard to find, so we have to source our diesel from something else, and these mercedes r great, way over built engines, and the most common little diesel here.
i love the cherokee, had a couple and they will go almost anywhere stock, jumped ice burms, dirt mounds drove through mud up to the doors ect. just awesome, lots of rust issues though.
X2, all correct and I'm trying to move away from gasoline. 617 is by far the best option at this time. Not sure how they build the Cherokee's over seas but they have been capable reliable and cheap since 1984. My xj on 31' tires will do what my friends jk on 35' will do, and I didn't pay 30k for it.
But they have a sh!t reputation.Anyway; if it is of so much concern for you to pick a good engine, you should realy open them up. Or do a cold compression test, drop some oil down the bores and repeat. If the values differ much, it's a dud. But this still doesn't tell you anything about the condition of the bearings. The appearance of the engine doesn't tell you a single thing about it's condition. Could be clean & sh!t, could be dirty s hell but a treasure.
Just do a compression test and take the best. It'll work. But there are still more factors to consider.
DiseaselWeasel
09-19-2014, 01:58 AM #15XJs are good, no doubt. But they just ooze cheapness out of every hard plastic bit... Were the turbodiesel XJs not available in the US?? There are lots over here or in France But they have a sh!t reputation.
Anyway; if it is of so much concern for you to pick a good engine, you should realy open them up. Or do a cold compression test, drop some oil down the bores and repeat. If the values differ much, it's a dud. But this still doesn't tell you anything about the condition of the bearings. The appearance of the engine doesn't tell you a single thing about it's condition. Could be clean & sh!t, could be dirty s hell but a treasure.
Just do a compression test and take the best. It'll work. But there are still more factors to consider.
good luck
FD,
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ok i see, cherokee´s in Portugal are almost, 1.8, or 2.0 , shit french engine, PSA diesel engines. and not only that they are expensive and with shit electronics , french made, i have heard that the v8 gas version is quite reliable , anyhow imposible to use in europe.
good luck
FD,
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(09-19-2014, 01:58 AM)DiseaselWeasel ...do a cold compression test, drop some oil down the bores and repeat. If the values differ much, it's a dud.
Ahhh, good suggestion. I had forgotten about that little gem. Definitely a Chilton Time Saver when looking for runners in a parts yard.
MBZ123
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