what gearbox to choose.... om606 8mm mynä in a w123... ZF gs6 or merc sixspeed
what gearbox to choose.... om606 8mm mynä in a w123... ZF gs6 or merc sixspeed
we broke the 717.401 this autumn, third gear gave up, to fast shifts, or to much torque, combined with the 2.47 rearend...
either way, we are looking into getting either the gs6 BMW ZF sixspeed gearbox, or the sixspeed mercedes box... 716.654 for example....
was absolutly certain we was going for the GS6, but some people say they are quite large, or very large, and thus wouldnt fit under the w123 without mayor modifications, is the 716.654 a better option?
how much power has it acctualy withstood, i know hansebanger has one... but other than that?
716.654
Pros
Mercedes, fits straight away.
smaller?
cheaper...
Cons:
"untested"
il have to get a dualmass flywheel crap thingy?
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
swampmonkey
04-06-2014, 04:22 PM #1hey there...
we broke the 717.401 this autumn, third gear gave up, to fast shifts, or to much torque, combined with the 2.47 rearend...
either way, we are looking into getting either the gs6 BMW ZF sixspeed gearbox, or the sixspeed mercedes box... 716.654 for example....
was absolutly certain we was going for the GS6, but some people say they are quite large, or very large, and thus wouldnt fit under the w123 without mayor modifications, is the 716.654 a better option?
how much power has it acctualy withstood, i know hansebanger has one... but other than that?
716.654
Pros
Mercedes, fits straight away.
smaller?
cheaper...
Cons:
"untested"
il have to get a dualmass flywheel crap thingy?
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
Untested is correct and you can't use a dual mass flywheel either - BMW wouldn't fit, so custom flywheel is the only option. I don't know that anyone else has done it yet, but i'm in the middle of designing a flywheel myself (for later version GS6 with pilot bearing in input shaft) to go with Tilton 7.25" twinplate clutch so if you do decide to go this route the designs will be up here eventually.
"Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess." Oscar Wilde
GS6-53 is long - I'd guess +100mm on standard Merc box (don't have a merc to measure).
Untested is correct and you can't use a dual mass flywheel either - BMW wouldn't fit, so custom flywheel is the only option. I don't know that anyone else has done it yet, but i'm in the middle of designing a flywheel myself (for later version GS6 with pilot bearing in input shaft) to go with Tilton 7.25" twinplate clutch so if you do decide to go this route the designs will be up here eventually.
"Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess." Oscar Wilde
or am i missing something?
if il go for the mercedes gearbox il have to get a new custom made flywheel thou, with "dualmass" sizes...
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
swampmonkey
04-07-2014, 03:08 AM #3the flywheel is already "custom/fixed" with 765 Sach pressure and sinter-clutch... if i go for the GS6 il have the gearbox rewelded to fit a single-mass flywheel, i think il only have to get a new clutch.... Besides the current 4-puck sinter slipped.
or am i missing something?
if il go for the mercedes gearbox il have to get a new custom made flywheel thou, with "dualmass" sizes...
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
isnt the 6speed mercboxes still expensive in sweden and a hell to find? alot of money to spend if it wont hold.
Holset power!
gs6 fits in 123 but its tight. but you have to make a new hole for the gearshiftmechanism. just cut a 100x50x50 hole and bend the metal a bit and reroute the shiftmekanism under the ashtray. i can take a pic if you want
isnt the 6speed mercboxes still expensive in sweden and a hell to find? alot of money to spend if it wont hold.
Holset power!
(04-07-2014, 10:09 AM)hooblah Sprinter single mass conversion flywheel fits.
you mean if if you chop old bellhousing off MB, cut GS6 back and and weld to correct length? not with adapter plate though.
"Moderation is a fatal thing. Nothing succeeds like excess." Oscar Wilde
Ah, OK yes that's is the easiest route.(04-07-2014, 10:09 AM)hooblah Sprinter single mass conversion flywheel fits.
single mass flywheel that has the size of a dualmass? got a custommade flywheel for a singlemass flywheel, i suspect they are a different size? (normal single-mass flywheel)
(04-07-2014, 11:54 AM)john gs6 fits in 123 but its tight. but you have to make a new hole for the gearshiftmechanism. just cut a 100x50x50 hole and bend the metal a bit and reroute the shiftmekanism under the ashtray. i can take a pic if you want
isnt the 6speed mercboxes still expensive in sweden and a hell to find? alot of money to spend if it wont hold.
would love a picture, good thing one doesnt have to alter the tunnel or anything mayor...
Hooblah here on the forum might have the option to send one from UK, 716.654 for a good price.
(but id still have to do something about the flywheel i presume..)
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
swampmonkey
04-08-2014, 10:15 AM #9(04-07-2014, 10:09 AM)hooblah Sprinter single mass conversion flywheel fits.
single mass flywheel that has the size of a dualmass? got a custommade flywheel for a singlemass flywheel, i suspect they are a different size? (normal single-mass flywheel)
(04-07-2014, 11:54 AM)john gs6 fits in 123 but its tight. but you have to make a new hole for the gearshiftmechanism. just cut a 100x50x50 hole and bend the metal a bit and reroute the shiftmekanism under the ashtray. i can take a pic if you want
isnt the 6speed mercboxes still expensive in sweden and a hell to find? alot of money to spend if it wont hold.
would love a picture, good thing one doesnt have to alter the tunnel or anything mayor...
Hooblah here on the forum might have the option to send one from UK, 716.654 for a good price.
(but id still have to do something about the flywheel i presume..)
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
Im using a 716.606 with a sprinter single mass conversion flywheel and clutch. I dont know if the flywheel is the exact same size as the dual mass, but it's a direct replacement for the dual mass with a centre support bearing so it should work. Although I havent tested it yet!
(04-08-2014, 10:15 AM)swampmonkey(04-07-2014, 10:09 AM)hooblah Sprinter single mass conversion flywheel fits.
single mass flywheel that has the size of a dualmass? got a custommade flywheel for a singlemass flywheel, i suspect they are a different size? (normal single-mass flywheel)
(04-07-2014, 11:54 AM)john gs6 fits in 123 but its tight. but you have to make a new hole for the gearshiftmechanism. just cut a 100x50x50 hole and bend the metal a bit and reroute the shiftmekanism under the ashtray. i can take a pic if you want
isnt the 6speed mercboxes still expensive in sweden and a hell to find? alot of money to spend if it wont hold.
would love a picture, good thing one doesnt have to alter the tunnel or anything mayor...
Hooblah here on the forum might have the option to send one from UK, 716.654 for a good price.
(but id still have to do something about the flywheel i presume..)
not the best pics but you get the deal. i will make some rubber thing over there before mounting centerconsole and fill it with isolation.
Holset power!
(04-08-2014, 10:15 AM)swampmonkey(04-07-2014, 10:09 AM)hooblah Sprinter single mass conversion flywheel fits.
single mass flywheel that has the size of a dualmass? got a custommade flywheel for a singlemass flywheel, i suspect they are a different size? (normal single-mass flywheel)
(04-07-2014, 11:54 AM)john gs6 fits in 123 but its tight. but you have to make a new hole for the gearshiftmechanism. just cut a 100x50x50 hole and bend the metal a bit and reroute the shiftmekanism under the ashtray. i can take a pic if you want
isnt the 6speed mercboxes still expensive in sweden and a hell to find? alot of money to spend if it wont hold.
would love a picture, good thing one doesnt have to alter the tunnel or anything mayor...
Hooblah here on the forum might have the option to send one from UK, 716.654 for a good price.
(but id still have to do something about the flywheel i presume..)
not the best pics but you get the deal. i will make some rubber thing over there before mounting centerconsole and fill it with isolation.
Holset power!
have a singlemass custom-made flywheel already,
i suspect i have to get a sprinter flywheel and do the modification al over again to pair it with the sixspeed from a 270cdi?
---
anybody now of someone that has grenaded the MB sixspeed? are they durable?
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
swampmonkey
10-28-2014, 03:44 AM #14okay, have a sixspeed 716.65x on its way it seems,
have a singlemass custom-made flywheel already,
i suspect i have to get a sprinter flywheel and do the modification al over again to pair it with the sixspeed from a 270cdi?
---
anybody now of someone that has grenaded the MB sixspeed? are they durable?
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
Max Torque Ratios for MB 6-Speed (The Number behind the "S" , s250 / s270 / etc....)
Also all the Gear Ratios.
http://www.rodionenkin.de/de/pages/mb-su...-daten.php
Sprinter Conversion Kit should work without any Issues.
______________________________________________________________
93´ W124 300TDT -> OM606.962 / RS 203 Dieselmeken 7,5mm 210cc / KKK K14 / Stock Transmission / 2,65 ASD
89´ 190D 2.5 Turbo -> OM605.960 / Dieselmeken 7,5mm 180cc / Holset HX30 Super / 716. 654 6-Speed / 2,87 Rear Axle
Hi,
Max Torque Ratios for MB 6-Speed (The Number behind the "S" , s250 / s270 / etc....)
Also all the Gear Ratios.
http://www.rodionenkin.de/de/pages/mb-su...-daten.php
Sprinter Conversion Kit should work without any Issues.
______________________________________________________________
93´ W124 300TDT -> OM606.962 / RS 203 Dieselmeken 7,5mm 210cc / KKK K14 / Stock Transmission / 2,65 ASD
89´ 190D 2.5 Turbo -> OM605.960 / Dieselmeken 7,5mm 180cc / Holset HX30 Super / 716. 654 6-Speed / 2,87 Rear Axle
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
swampmonkey
10-29-2014, 11:49 AM #18Got a 716.649 going, is it a 370nm rated box, any difference what ice read al 716.6xx is the 370nm boxes?
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
try to stay away from those shudders and sooner or later get aa 3.07 or 2.82 LSD or perhaps a Quaife diff 3.07 something.
I paid 70usd for the 717.401, so it seemed like a descent alternative to get the car going immediately and scare people with....
bought a sixspeed two weeks ago, will see what i do with it, perhaps another 605 project recives that gearbox, i don't know actually...
School takes its fair amount of time, so its not a season of updates
----
after talking with some real gearheads, the sixspeed bmw 530d is appearently weaker than the fivespeed 530d gearbox, witch isnt the same as a 525d fivespeed... they broke the 530d sixspeed once a week, got a new, grenaded that, a new, grenaded that, they changed to a fivespeed and had no problems...
1100nm 800hp fourcylinder Volvo, with crazy wide tires, we are talking full size dragslics, NOS etc etc
that + the heafty price of 2700usd something the gearbox would cost me (gearbox, linkage, clutch, drive-shaft for welding+balancing) i wasn't committed to that kind of expenses when a plug&play gearbox came around for 70usd.
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
swampmonkey
11-07-2014, 08:01 PM #21i bought another 717.401 and put a 2.88 differential in, besides the fact the lack of welded diff or LSD isnt to nice on the gearbox, it "shudders" as the wheels start spinning and individually gets grip.... recipe for grenaded gearbox...
try to stay away from those shudders and sooner or later get aa 3.07 or 2.82 LSD or perhaps a Quaife diff 3.07 something.
I paid 70usd for the 717.401, so it seemed like a descent alternative to get the car going immediately and scare people with....
bought a sixspeed two weeks ago, will see what i do with it, perhaps another 605 project recives that gearbox, i don't know actually...
School takes its fair amount of time, so its not a season of updates
----
after talking with some real gearheads, the sixspeed bmw 530d is appearently weaker than the fivespeed 530d gearbox, witch isnt the same as a 525d fivespeed... they broke the 530d sixspeed once a week, got a new, grenaded that, a new, grenaded that, they changed to a fivespeed and had no problems...
1100nm 800hp fourcylinder Volvo, with crazy wide tires, we are talking full size dragslics, NOS etc etc
that + the heafty price of 2700usd something the gearbox would cost me (gearbox, linkage, clutch, drive-shaft for welding+balancing) i wasn't committed to that kind of expenses when a plug&play gearbox came around for 70usd.
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
Does it make any difference? I hear about the Getrag 420g being weak but ZF GS6 being strong. Real world info is better than conjecture!
Thanks!
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
When you're talking about bmw 6-speeds, are you referring to Getrag or ZF?
Does it make any difference? I hear about the Getrag 420g being weak but ZF GS6 being strong. Real world info is better than conjecture!
Thanks!
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
(11-09-2014, 11:31 AM)CRD4x4 When you're talking about bmw 6-speeds, are you referring to Getrag or ZF?
Does it make any difference? I hear about the Getrag 420g being weak but ZF GS6 being strong. Real world info is better than conjecture!
Thanks!
im talking about the ZF 6speed that is in the 530d being weaker than the 5speed ZF in the 530d.
they had the GS6-53dz and got a GS5 or whatever it is called instead, both with 35mm splines if i remember correctly.
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
swampmonkey
11-09-2014, 05:24 PM #23(11-09-2014, 11:31 AM)CRD4x4 When you're talking about bmw 6-speeds, are you referring to Getrag or ZF?
Does it make any difference? I hear about the Getrag 420g being weak but ZF GS6 being strong. Real world info is better than conjecture!
Thanks!
im talking about the ZF 6speed that is in the 530d being weaker than the 5speed ZF in the 530d.
they had the GS6-53dz and got a GS5 or whatever it is called instead, both with 35mm splines if i remember correctly.
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
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