OM606 water injection for carbon removal
OM606 water injection for carbon removal
I've also read people debunking it as crazy talk, dangerous, and potentially injurious to the engine. (and have watched videos of guys pouring water straight in, running a garden hose up the intake, etc..)
I've also read enough on the horrors of OM606 glow plug removal - seized due to carbon, to ask the question a different way..
OM606 N/A (no turbo)
In order to confine the treatment to 1 cylinder at a time, I propose to:
1. Remove intake and cover the intake ports with a section of plastic window screen - this will prevent anything from being dropped or sucked in while running.
2. Raise engine speed to a sustained 2500+ RPM.
3. Spray a fine mist of water into each intake port (or live steam, from a hand held steamer), quantity to be determined.
The intent is to steam-clean the cylinder, hopefully cleaning the glow plug "chamber" in the process, allowing for easier removal.
I wouldn't try this with a turbo, as I wouldn't want to strain any dislodged carbon through the turbine, but as a N/A engine, I think it might have merit.
I would combine this with the "usual removal procedures" for OM606 glow plugs, PB Blaster / Kroil, etc., hopefully without having to resort to the "usual extraction procedures for broken GPs", of which I've read way too many.
Any BTDT experience welcomed, and if not a good idea as-presented, why not?
Flame suit on..
Not to start a flame war, but I've read that water injection works well for removing carbon deposits in a diesel engine.
I've also read people debunking it as crazy talk, dangerous, and potentially injurious to the engine. (and have watched videos of guys pouring water straight in, running a garden hose up the intake, etc..)
I've also read enough on the horrors of OM606 glow plug removal - seized due to carbon, to ask the question a different way..
OM606 N/A (no turbo)
In order to confine the treatment to 1 cylinder at a time, I propose to:
1. Remove intake and cover the intake ports with a section of plastic window screen - this will prevent anything from being dropped or sucked in while running.
2. Raise engine speed to a sustained 2500+ RPM.
3. Spray a fine mist of water into each intake port (or live steam, from a hand held steamer), quantity to be determined.
The intent is to steam-clean the cylinder, hopefully cleaning the glow plug "chamber" in the process, allowing for easier removal.
I wouldn't try this with a turbo, as I wouldn't want to strain any dislodged carbon through the turbine, but as a N/A engine, I think it might have merit.
I would combine this with the "usual removal procedures" for OM606 glow plugs, PB Blaster / Kroil, etc., hopefully without having to resort to the "usual extraction procedures for broken GPs", of which I've read way too many.
Any BTDT experience welcomed, and if not a good idea as-presented, why not?
Flame suit on..
But if you are going to cover 5 of 6 intake ports with some sort of glass, the engine will not run because only one cylinder will be able to fire.
I think if you were going to try it, I would spend some money and go ahead and set up a water injection system and run it for several thousand miles. It will cost more, and be more complex than your method, but I believe that is what people are doing when you hear them say water cleaned their carbon deposits off. And if they did it some other way (pouring water in, garden hose, etc) It sounds like a great way to hydrolock your engine and bend a rod :p
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I have noticed on this forum, flame suits are not mandatory. Flame wars very very rarely happen
But if you are going to cover 5 of 6 intake ports with some sort of glass, the engine will not run because only one cylinder will be able to fire.
I think if you were going to try it, I would spend some money and go ahead and set up a water injection system and run it for several thousand miles. It will cost more, and be more complex than your method, but I believe that is what people are doing when you hear them say water cleaned their carbon deposits off. And if they did it some other way (pouring water in, garden hose, etc) It sounds like a great way to hydrolock your engine and bend a rod :p
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
03-10-2014, 02:34 PM #3Yeah, I would say your best bet would just to get a water injection setup or make one, using maybe a 1gph nozzle or even smaller plumbed into the intake somewhere after the filter, and just turn it on at highway speeds. I suspect after a couple of gallons through it your carbon deposits should be pretty cleared up.
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
Stevo-trendy
03-10-2014, 03:16 PM #4If you join the veg oil forum they have covered the subject a lot on water injection as they suffer from ring gumming or if you pm high compression on here he knows his stuff on the subject . There is also a product called terra clean here in the uk which is the same type of cleaning system there's videos on YouTube covering the subject
Hmm, on a NA diesel I don't see how it would work well, there is no vacuum to quickly suck in the water.
On my carb'd truck, I do the water cleanup trick every oil change. A very slight dribble into the carb with the engine at 2500rpm for a minute and you should see the crap that comes out the tail pipe. The trick, DONT let the engine slow down past 2500rpm and do it on a hot engine.
Hmm, on a NA diesel I don't see how it would work well, there is no vacuum to quickly suck in the water.
EmJay - You are correct, there is no "vacuum" in the classical sense, but the engine itself is an "air pump", which you could verify by putting your hand over the intake of a running diesel (but I don't recommend it.. put a piece of plywood over it and see how much suction there is..)
I wasn't going to use engine vacuum to suck it in, but was going to pump an atomized spray into each of the 12 intake ports. It should suck right in, and allow me to meter the dose to each cylinder.
All - Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.
I asked the same question on another forum and got answers ranging from 'Here are pictures of my home-made water injector', to 'Thats an idiotic idea and you'll blow up the engine'.
MFSuper90 - I wasn't going to cover the other intake holes with a plate, just a section of window screen to keep anything from falling in, but still allow air flow.
EmJay - You are correct, there is no "vacuum" in the classical sense, but the engine itself is an "air pump", which you could verify by putting your hand over the intake of a running diesel (but I don't recommend it.. put a piece of plywood over it and see how much suction there is..)
I wasn't going to use engine vacuum to suck it in, but was going to pump an atomized spray into each of the 12 intake ports. It should suck right in, and allow me to meter the dose to each cylinder.
All - Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated.
I asked the same question on another forum and got answers ranging from 'Here are pictures of my home-made water injector', to 'Thats an idiotic idea and you'll blow up the engine'.
There are also fuel additives that are supposed to do the same thing plus you could also pull the injectors and fill at tdc with a light oil or something like STP if you have such a thing over there. You might call it wynes or something like that, even heard it called miracle oil in the states.
Never seen it deliberately done but I have seen the results from cracked blocks and blown head gaskets. The results were always clean pistons and combustion Chambers. Your theory is sound but I don't know how much water and for how long you would need to do it for it to be any use. I think it would take a fair while before anything really worked. I wouldnt separate the cylinders, just do it all at once and go easy on the amount of water via the inlet manifold somehow.
There are also fuel additives that are supposed to do the same thing plus you could also pull the injectors and fill at tdc with a light oil or something like STP if you have such a thing over there. You might call it wynes or something like that, even heard it called miracle oil in the states.
At my shop we do carbon cleaning on M-B diesels, VW TDI&FSi engines and some BMW N55/N54's. We charge on average 4-6 hours plus materials. So at worst it would be $700 or so for a VERY good cleaning of all intake tract parts (clean down to bare metal) I dont think that any water injection etc. would clean the system out, maybe just keep a clean system clean. We usually need to scrape, burn and acid wash the areas affected. All the money and time on a water injection system would be better put towards a pro doing the work (but that's what i do for a living :-P). As far as glow plugs, i have never broken a GP off in a head, the build up on GP's is due to combustion and is fairly normal. I dont think water injection etc. would help prevent that. Taking a glow plug out on a hot engine and some slight working a stuck one will almost guarantee it does not break off.
If your doing it for a curiosity factor..knock your self out.
Duncansport
03-10-2014, 06:50 PM #8My $.02
At my shop we do carbon cleaning on M-B diesels, VW TDI&FSi engines and some BMW N55/N54's. We charge on average 4-6 hours plus materials. So at worst it would be $700 or so for a VERY good cleaning of all intake tract parts (clean down to bare metal) I dont think that any water injection etc. would clean the system out, maybe just keep a clean system clean. We usually need to scrape, burn and acid wash the areas affected. All the money and time on a water injection system would be better put towards a pro doing the work (but that's what i do for a living :-P). As far as glow plugs, i have never broken a GP off in a head, the build up on GP's is due to combustion and is fairly normal. I dont think water injection etc. would help prevent that. Taking a glow plug out on a hot engine and some slight working a stuck one will almost guarantee it does not break off.
If your doing it for a curiosity factor..knock your self out.
I've developed a slight combustion leak at #6, which I've also posted about, looking for any BTDTs, which will necessitate pulling the injector, GP and prechamber to see what the heck is the issue.
So, slightly more than idle curiosity. I want to make damn sure it doesn't cause me issues, and from what I've been reading, the OM606 is notorious for having glowplugs snap off from carbon buildup.
Duncan, I 've already cleaned the intake manifold and intake ports (down to bare metal) after I blocked the EGR port and removed the EGR butterfly. Did that when I replaced the engine wiring harnesses and fuel hoses / filters / O-rings.
I've developed a slight combustion leak at #6, which I've also posted about, looking for any BTDTs, which will necessitate pulling the injector, GP and prechamber to see what the heck is the issue.
So, slightly more than idle curiosity. I want to make damn sure it doesn't cause me issues, and from what I've been reading, the OM606 is notorious for having glowplugs snap off from carbon buildup.
Pull the plugs with the engine hot and be patient. If they break, pull the head.
raysorenson
03-10-2014, 09:38 PM #10Water may be mildly effective at removing surface deposits. Carbon between the glow plugs and the head is not a surface deposit. It's deep in a crevice.
Pull the plugs with the engine hot and be patient. If they break, pull the head.
(03-10-2014, 09:38 PM)raysorenson ...
Pull the plugs with the engine hot and be patient. If they break, pull the head.
Years ago I invented a technique for removing glow plugs that have snapped off flush with the head. Properly executed this removes the plug without any damage to the head including the threads. Unfortunately, for plug #6 this involves removing the oil filter assembly from the block.
See attached PDF for instructions:
(03-10-2014, 09:38 PM)raysorenson ...
Pull the plugs with the engine hot and be patient. If they break, pull the head.
Years ago I invented a technique for removing glow plugs that have snapped off flush with the head. Properly executed this removes the plug without any damage to the head including the threads. Unfortunately, for plug #6 this involves removing the oil filter assembly from the block.
See attached PDF for instructions:
A cool refinement would be to make a bit guide that threads into the head to make is closer to foolproof. People would buy it.
raysorenson
03-11-2014, 10:42 AM #12That's very similar to the lisle tool for removing broken spark plugs from Ford 3v heads.
A cool refinement would be to make a bit guide that threads into the head to make is closer to foolproof. People would buy it.
I once bought a toolset to fix snapped plugs. It does basically the same thing as the PDF, only there are some special drill bits that drill the hole in the plug for the thread and drills the plug away in the treads at the same time. And has a little puller tool to pull them out.
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