Custom sump and oil pump location
Custom sump and oil pump location
![[Image: 100_6235_zpsec577583.jpg]](http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/simon-m16p6/Random%20Stuff/100_6235_zpsec577583.jpg)
![[Image: 100_6233_zps89bf88c1.jpg]](http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/simon-m16p6/Random%20Stuff/100_6233_zps89bf88c1.jpg)
![[Image: 100_6229_zps242714f8.jpg]](http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/simon-m16p6/Random%20Stuff/100_6229_zps242714f8.jpg)
![[Image: 100_6227_zps248870bc.jpg]](http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/simon-m16p6/Random%20Stuff/100_6227_zps248870bc.jpg)
Clearly it's not the best of fit right now, being the sump is a front bowl design of an awkward shape, and the front crossmember sits in the same place.
I have a spare OM605 sump and oil pump, and what I'd like to do is make a jig/flat plate that I can bolt the sump and oil pump to and relieve the front into a more useable shape for my requirements, and convert it to a centre bowl design.
![[Image: 100_6228_zps46decafd.jpg]](http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/simon-m16p6/om605/100_6228_zps46decafd.jpg)
I can just about weld aluminium myself, good enough to tack it together and trial fit so not concerned about that side of it, but what I don't know is exactly where the oil pump sits on the engine block in relation to the sump to make the jig. I don't want to disassemble the 605 as it's a complete running engine, and I'd like to keep it that way for now.
Has anyone got any pictures or dimensions of the oil pump location on the block of an OM60X engine?
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
simonm16p6
02-08-2014, 08:09 AM #1I've just begun on a little project I've been thinking of doing for a while now, fitting an OM605 into a Rover P6 (classic British saloon). Using one of my spare parts cars, I've just swung the engine into the bay just to confirm how well or not it fits.
Clearly it's not the best of fit right now, being the sump is a front bowl design of an awkward shape, and the front crossmember sits in the same place.
I have a spare OM605 sump and oil pump, and what I'd like to do is make a jig/flat plate that I can bolt the sump and oil pump to and relieve the front into a more useable shape for my requirements, and convert it to a centre bowl design.
I can just about weld aluminium myself, good enough to tack it together and trial fit so not concerned about that side of it, but what I don't know is exactly where the oil pump sits on the engine block in relation to the sump to make the jig. I don't want to disassemble the 605 as it's a complete running engine, and I'd like to keep it that way for now.
Has anyone got any pictures or dimensions of the oil pump location on the block of an OM60X engine?
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
The oil pump sits on the block in just about the same position as the one you have showing in the spare sump. It's position is fixed by the chain drive from the crank. You could modify the pick-up pipe to a more further back position but that's about it. It's quite a deep pump and I'd be surprised if you would get the engine down far enough to get that bonnet shut even with a modded sump.
I don't expect it will completely fit under the original closed bonnet line, in fact I'm planning on chopping a chunk out of the bonnet to clear, but getting the best fit I can at this stage will help immensely.
Annoyingly I fitted an OM606 into my Land Rover and didn't get any photos or dimensions of it when I had the sump off to check that engine over!
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
simonm16p6
02-08-2014, 08:35 AM #3There is a large gap between the bottom of the sump and the crossmember which I can get my hand in, approx 3", and there's also a space between the bottom of the sump and the oil pump assuming the block face is the same level for the pump and sump mating faces.
I don't expect it will completely fit under the original closed bonnet line, in fact I'm planning on chopping a chunk out of the bonnet to clear, but getting the best fit I can at this stage will help immensely.
Annoyingly I fitted an OM606 into my Land Rover and didn't get any photos or dimensions of it when I had the sump off to check that engine over!
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
If it doesn't fit. Yea, then you'll have a problem.
Move the crossmember maybe? You can always chop a piece out where the sump is and move that piece and rebuild the crossmember again. Sorry, don't have any photos of how I mean and my English is to bad to explain
F-tune Performance
![[Image: V-band_om606.jpg]](http://www.f-tune.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/V-band_om606.jpg)
![[Image: GTX3582R.jpg]](http://www.f-tune.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/GTX3582R.jpg)
![[Image: gs6-53dz_gearbox.jpg]](http://www.f-tune.se/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/gs6-53dz_gearbox.jpg)
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
If you remove the sump and pump and fit the engine, will the pump clear the crossmember then (fitted by hand). There is your answer. If it fits, just modify the pickup and place the "hump" where ever you like.
If it doesn't fit. Yea, then you'll have a problem.
Move the crossmember maybe? You can always chop a piece out where the sump is and move that piece and rebuild the crossmember again. Sorry, don't have any photos of how I mean and my English is to bad to explain
F-tune Performance
I can help you out with all your manual transmission, clutch, flywheel, intake and exhaust manifold issues.
Looking at the fitment of the engine as it sits, the pick-up doesn't appear to be a problem, it drops down behind where the crossmember sits, and modifying the crossmember is a not an option, it carries the front suspension.
I did however find a couple of vague photos after posting earlier showing the oil pump bolted to the bottom of the block, so went for it and cut up my spare sump.
![[Image: 100_6239_zps9e7772ab.jpg]](http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/simon-m16p6/om605/100_6239_zps9e7772ab.jpg)
![[Image: 100_6240_zps9aa0e7ac.jpg]](http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/simon-m16p6/om605/100_6240_zps9aa0e7ac.jpg)
![[Image: 100_6243_zps6ae6a91b.jpg]](http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/simon-m16p6/om605/100_6243_zps6ae6a91b.jpg)
Now I need to make a jig to hold the sump flat and buy some aluminium plate to weld over the pump body. Once that's done I reckon I can then fabricate a new sump bowl, and swap it over onto the engine. If my rough measurements are close, then I've just won myself about 4-5 inches of clearance, which means the front of the engine will only poke through the bonnet line by about 1-2 inches
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
simonm16p6
02-08-2014, 12:38 PM #5I'm trying to avoid dismantling the engine, it's a complete runner and I'm sharing the workspace, so having another engine opened up isn't really viable as I don't know how long it would be before I next get out there. I get what you mean, I'm just trying to be lazy and get a quick answer, though I think I've got my head round it now.
Looking at the fitment of the engine as it sits, the pick-up doesn't appear to be a problem, it drops down behind where the crossmember sits, and modifying the crossmember is a not an option, it carries the front suspension.
I did however find a couple of vague photos after posting earlier showing the oil pump bolted to the bottom of the block, so went for it and cut up my spare sump.
Now I need to make a jig to hold the sump flat and buy some aluminium plate to weld over the pump body. Once that's done I reckon I can then fabricate a new sump bowl, and swap it over onto the engine. If my rough measurements are close, then I've just won myself about 4-5 inches of clearance, which means the front of the engine will only poke through the bonnet line by about 1-2 inches
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
there is a very very simple solution to your problem , just use a 662a oil pump/oil pickup /sump with built in dipstick and blank off the timing case dipstick hole . the 662a is the ssangyong musso turbo engine and it has the sump well at the flywheel end ,a lot of people use them to put the 605a into the cherokee jeep etc /the 605/602/662 all share the same block basically and you can swap lots of parts etc .
the 662 sump is alloy with a steel lower part ,so it is easy to modify .
rgds mike
nice old p6 (i used to have a 3500s)
there is a very very simple solution to your problem , just use a 662a oil pump/oil pickup /sump with built in dipstick and blank off the timing case dipstick hole . the 662a is the ssangyong musso turbo engine and it has the sump well at the flywheel end ,a lot of people use them to put the 605a into the cherokee jeep etc /the 605/602/662 all share the same block basically and you can swap lots of parts etc .
the 662 sump is alloy with a steel lower part ,so it is easy to modify .
rgds mike
I'd like to see a low budget diy dry sump! It seems like something that could be built on the cheap.
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
Have you considered a dry sump system?
I'd like to see a low budget diy dry sump! It seems like something that could be built on the cheap.
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
(02-08-2014, 12:59 PM)Mark_M Not sure exactly what your plans are regarding what your going to put back in but it looks to me like your going to be very short on capacity. Are you going to extend the back to get the capacity back?
Yes the plan is to extend the back to increase the capacity, I've left the original back and section of the base as reference points, and to keep some rigidity while I enclose the front section. Once that's done I'll cut the middle out and make a new bowl.
(02-08-2014, 01:29 PM)axel606 nice old p6 (i used to have a 3500s)
there is a very very simple solution to your problem , just use a 662a oil pump/oil pickup /sump with built in dipstick and blank off the timing case dipstick hole . the 662a is the ssangyong musso turbo engine and it has the sump well at the flywheel end ,a lot of people use them to put the 605a into the cherokee jeep etc /the 605/602/662 all share the same block basically and you can swap lots of parts etc .
the 662 sump is alloy with a steel lower part ,so it is easy to modify .
rgds mike
I didn't know the Musso had a rear bowl sump, though looking at the pictures that Bigbortha also put up I'd still be wanting to hack the front section up for clearance. The P6 is damned awkward with the shape of the front crossmember, shame it can't be removed. I am though using the Musso bellhousing with an adapter onto a Rover R380 gearbox, good to know the next time one comes up breaking there are even more goodies worth pinching off them!
![[Image: 100_6200_zps606d497f.jpg]](http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/simon-m16p6/om605/100_6200_zps606d497f.jpg)
(02-08-2014, 02:08 PM)CRD4x4 Have you considered a dry sump system?
I'd like to see a low budget diy dry sump! It seems like something that could be built on the cheap.
That did cross my mind at one point, but my issue is clearance only at the front so it's too much work for no benefit.
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
simonm16p6
02-08-2014, 02:53 PM #10(02-08-2014, 12:59 PM)Mark_M Not sure exactly what your plans are regarding what your going to put back in but it looks to me like your going to be very short on capacity. Are you going to extend the back to get the capacity back?
Yes the plan is to extend the back to increase the capacity, I've left the original back and section of the base as reference points, and to keep some rigidity while I enclose the front section. Once that's done I'll cut the middle out and make a new bowl.
(02-08-2014, 01:29 PM)axel606 nice old p6 (i used to have a 3500s)
there is a very very simple solution to your problem , just use a 662a oil pump/oil pickup /sump with built in dipstick and blank off the timing case dipstick hole . the 662a is the ssangyong musso turbo engine and it has the sump well at the flywheel end ,a lot of people use them to put the 605a into the cherokee jeep etc /the 605/602/662 all share the same block basically and you can swap lots of parts etc .
the 662 sump is alloy with a steel lower part ,so it is easy to modify .
rgds mike
I didn't know the Musso had a rear bowl sump, though looking at the pictures that Bigbortha also put up I'd still be wanting to hack the front section up for clearance. The P6 is damned awkward with the shape of the front crossmember, shame it can't be removed. I am though using the Musso bellhousing with an adapter onto a Rover R380 gearbox, good to know the next time one comes up breaking there are even more goodies worth pinching off them!
(02-08-2014, 02:08 PM)CRD4x4 Have you considered a dry sump system?
I'd like to see a low budget diy dry sump! It seems like something that could be built on the cheap.
That did cross my mind at one point, but my issue is clearance only at the front so it's too much work for no benefit.
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
(02-08-2014, 04:02 PM)bigbortha Sorry Mike, i must have been typing my reply when you posted your info
seen some of your transplants, very impressive stuff
Thanks for the pics, maybe handy as I'd like to drop an OM605 in my Discovery, get rid of that rough Land Rover tdi lump and the Musso sump looks like it should clear the front.
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
simonm16p6
02-08-2014, 04:45 PM #12(02-08-2014, 04:02 PM)bigbortha Sorry Mike, i must have been typing my reply when you posted your info
seen some of your transplants, very impressive stuff
Thanks for the pics, maybe handy as I'd like to drop an OM605 in my Discovery, get rid of that rough Land Rover tdi lump and the Musso sump looks like it should clear the front.
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
![[Image: P1050418.jpg]](http://s62.photobucket.com/user/a10ruk/media/300TD/P1050418.jpg.html)
...however, even with it bolted firmly to an immoveable surface during welding it still warped along it's length by more than 1/2". When the bolts were tightened up the welds (professionally done) started to crack open. So I ground them out, bent the flange flat and re-welded. When it got crack tested there were so many faults I scrapped it and built my own custom sump from steel. Peace of mind is a great thing when you're hurtling down the M6 at 90mph. Not that I admit to that of course.
.
I had similar crossmember problems with the conversion I did. My initial move was to cut and weld the sump...
...however, even with it bolted firmly to an immoveable surface during welding it still warped along it's length by more than 1/2". When the bolts were tightened up the welds (professionally done) started to crack open. So I ground them out, bent the flange flat and re-welded. When it got crack tested there were so many faults I scrapped it and built my own custom sump from steel. Peace of mind is a great thing when you're hurtling down the M6 at 90mph. Not that I admit to that of course.
.
My plan is to do only a little at a time, I've made quite a few inlet and exhaust manifolds over the years, and preventing them from warping can be tricky. As you say, there is always fabricating a steel sump from scratch, which in a way would be easier than trying to make something that doesn't fit fit as a last resort.
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
simonm16p6
02-08-2014, 06:07 PM #14That's a good point about the warpage, my plan is to bolt it to something solid, I've been thinking of simply buying another engine and stripping it to a bare block but that's a lot of money for something that would take up a lot of space.
My plan is to do only a little at a time, I've made quite a few inlet and exhaust manifolds over the years, and preventing them from warping can be tricky. As you say, there is always fabricating a steel sump from scratch, which in a way would be easier than trying to make something that doesn't fit fit as a last resort.
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
I have a spare 606 engine. Turned it over on it's head and fabbed up a sump from 3/16" flatbar and 2mm sheet. Very satisfying and leakproof.
I bolted mine back-to-back with a spare sump. As soon as the bolts were released it warped. It had post weld heat treatment...the works.
I have a spare 606 engine. Turned it over on it's head and fabbed up a sump from 3/16" flatbar and 2mm sheet. Very satisfying and leakproof.
If it does go all horribly wrong at least I will have a useable pattern to fabricate a new steel sump from, knowing that it should fit. I have managed to half weld an OM60x bellhousing flange onto a Land Rover LT77 bellhousing without any warpage, it only needs filling in around the bolt hole recesses to finish.
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
simonm16p6
02-08-2014, 06:32 PM #16I remember on one manifold I made, I had to pack out the outer ports with washers just so that when I unbolted the manifold from the head it would vaguely follow the line of a ruler! Then doing others I've not had any issues with warpage, by then I think I was getting the hang of minimising the problems.
If it does go all horribly wrong at least I will have a useable pattern to fabricate a new steel sump from, knowing that it should fit. I have managed to half weld an OM60x bellhousing flange onto a Land Rover LT77 bellhousing without any warpage, it only needs filling in around the bolt hole recesses to finish.
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
![[Image: 100_6277_zpsc6e18976.jpg]](http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/simon-m16p6/om605/100_6277_zpsc6e18976.jpg)
I bought some plates of 4mm aluminium to fill the hole up at the front and make a new bowl in the middle of the sump
![[Image: 100_6281_zpse834ba5b.jpg]](http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/simon-m16p6/om605/100_6281_zpse834ba5b.jpg)
The plan was to tack it together with my mig then get my new cheap tig welder out and have a go with that (my brother can tig weld so he can do it if I turn out to be completely incapable of it) but the mig seemed to be working fairly well with the ally wire for once
![[Image: 100_6284_zpsd45317ae.jpg]](http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w364/simon-m16p6/om605/100_6284_zpsd45317ae.jpg)
I'm waiting for it to cool down, then I'll unbolt it from the frame and see if it's still flat or not and go from there. If anything I think you can see what the desired shape is at the front. Once that is fully welded up, I'll cut the back face off upto the two small ribs running across it's width to make the new bowl.
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
simonm16p6
02-15-2014, 02:01 PM #17This morning I made a frame to try and hold the sump flat, and also sit over my garage heaters to help warm it up
I bought some plates of 4mm aluminium to fill the hole up at the front and make a new bowl in the middle of the sump
The plan was to tack it together with my mig then get my new cheap tig welder out and have a go with that (my brother can tig weld so he can do it if I turn out to be completely incapable of it) but the mig seemed to be working fairly well with the ally wire for once
I'm waiting for it to cool down, then I'll unbolt it from the frame and see if it's still flat or not and go from there. If anything I think you can see what the desired shape is at the front. Once that is fully welded up, I'll cut the back face off upto the two small ribs running across it's width to make the new bowl.
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
Hope it works
W124 om606 HX40 finished and it's a beauty 450bhp/456ft-lbs
maxypriest
02-15-2014, 05:38 PM #18Now that is what I call a frame!
Hope it works
W124 om606 HX40 finished and it's a beauty 450bhp/456ft-lbs
If it does go all horribly wrong it will be a good tremplate to make a steel sump.
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
simonm16p6
02-16-2014, 03:33 AM #20I unbolted it last night and there's less than 1mm distortion on the one corner, I reckon a small shim under the central area so the front edge is pulled upwards should sort that out when I continue welding it.
If it does go all horribly wrong it will be a good tremplate to make a steel sump.
1971 Rover P6 2000 project OM605 compound charged conversion
1975 Land Rover series 3 OM606 project
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