Gas Powered 2 stroke OM617
Gas Powered 2 stroke OM617
02-04-2014, 03:06 AM
#1
![[Image: DSC02937.jpg]](http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm268/punkrider99punkrider99/DSC02937.jpg)
![[Image: DSC02939.jpg]](http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm268/punkrider99punkrider99/DSC02939.jpg)
![[Image: DSC02938.jpg]](http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm268/punkrider99punkrider99/DSC02938.jpg)
Hi new member here, I often read the forums here but I have not joined until now. The reason I had to join was to share the amazing pictures I found. It appears to be a OM617 with a custom head converted to run as a gas powered 2 stroke. This is easily one of the coolest engines I have seen.
02-04-2014, 09:39 AM
#2
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-04-2014, 09:39 AM #2That is incredible! Belt driven supercharger, crossflow billet head...if it's for sale buy it no matter what.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
02-04-2014, 10:29 AM
#3
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
lgreeley83
02-04-2014, 10:29 AM #3I want to hear it run :-)
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
raysorenson
02-04-2014, 12:06 PM #5How does is work without intake and exhaust ports in the cylinders?
02-04-2014, 01:52 PM
#7
(02-04-2014, 12:06 PM)raysorenson How does is work without intake and exhaust ports in the cylinders?
Note the intake and exhaust manifolds mount to the cylinder head...
Duncansport
02-04-2014, 01:52 PM #7(02-04-2014, 12:06 PM)raysorenson How does is work without intake and exhaust ports in the cylinders?
Note the intake and exhaust manifolds mount to the cylinder head...
02-04-2014, 01:57 PM
#8
(02-04-2014, 10:29 AM)lgreeley83 I want to hear it run :-)
If it really is a 2-stroke, it'd probably sound similar to this:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EmnsXTMLzCE
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
(02-04-2014, 10:29 AM)lgreeley83 I want to hear it run :-)
If it really is a 2-stroke, it'd probably sound similar to this:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EmnsXTMLzCE
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
02-04-2014, 02:02 PM
#9
(02-04-2014, 01:29 PM)Tmadia Wonder why a 2 stroke needs a camshaft.
Looks to me like a custom made 4 valve per cylinder head with those 10 exhaust pipes.
Im guessing here, but a long time ago Toyota made a two stroke engine that had the camshaft timing events happen every compression stroke. They did this by forced induction and very late intake timing as well as overlap. This helped scavenge the cylinder of exhaust. Then there would be a fuel delivery via a direct injector, piston goes down and both valves open, exhaust is forced out by incoming air, ect. Similar to a miller cycle engine.
Duncansport
02-04-2014, 02:02 PM #9(02-04-2014, 01:29 PM)Tmadia Wonder why a 2 stroke needs a camshaft.
Looks to me like a custom made 4 valve per cylinder head with those 10 exhaust pipes.
Im guessing here, but a long time ago Toyota made a two stroke engine that had the camshaft timing events happen every compression stroke. They did this by forced induction and very late intake timing as well as overlap. This helped scavenge the cylinder of exhaust. Then there would be a fuel delivery via a direct injector, piston goes down and both valves open, exhaust is forced out by incoming air, ect. Similar to a miller cycle engine.
02-04-2014, 02:18 PM
#10
(02-04-2014, 01:57 PM)CRD4x4 If it really is a 2-stroke, it'd probably sound similar to this:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EmnsXTMLzCE
That is awesome. Is there a reason in theory as to why it looks like an octopus?
This post was last modified: 02-04-2014, 02:22 PM by lgreeley83.
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
lgreeley83
02-04-2014, 02:18 PM #10Oh yeah and did they barrow that rusty engine block from Simple? another one from under the ocean.
(02-04-2014, 01:57 PM)CRD4x4 If it really is a 2-stroke, it'd probably sound similar to this:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EmnsXTMLzCE
That is awesome. Is there a reason in theory as to why it looks like an octopus?
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
02-04-2014, 02:29 PM
#11
raysorenson
02-04-2014, 02:29 PM #112 strokes that require a supercharger for scavenging use positive displacement superchargers. That's centrifugal.
02-04-2014, 04:01 PM
#13
still havent figured out completly how it works, it "injects air-fuel" mix at the same time it blows the exhausts out?
what about the air-fuel mixture you blow out the exhaust? and the exhausts that stay in?
different timing of valves in different rpms? seeing how hugh of difference exhaust port timing changes characteristics of a regular two-stroke.
i call bogus untill proven other
why not run it in a car? what about expansionchamber exhaust pipes instead of straight?
looks to me like it isnt exactly "well" made or i might be missing some point.
put it in a car, get me some HP numbers and get rid of the hideous quality+animations and i might be interested
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
swampmonkey
02-04-2014, 04:01 PM #13there is a lot of talk and not much numbers...
still havent figured out completly how it works, it "injects air-fuel" mix at the same time it blows the exhausts out?
what about the air-fuel mixture you blow out the exhaust? and the exhausts that stay in?
different timing of valves in different rpms? seeing how hugh of difference exhaust port timing changes characteristics of a regular two-stroke.
i call bogus untill proven other
why not run it in a car? what about expansionchamber exhaust pipes instead of straight?
looks to me like it isnt exactly "well" made or i might be missing some point.
put it in a car, get me some HP numbers and get rid of the hideous quality+animations and i might be interested
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
02-04-2014, 05:03 PM
#14
Interesting responses, let me try clear up some things. First off the engine was made by legendary racer and engine builder Bruce Crower. The engine has a camshaft for the 2 exhaust valves per cylinder, there are no intake valves and it runs a positive displacement supercharger as the fuel/mix is forced in during compression of the cylinder.
02-04-2014, 05:09 PM
#15
Im sure there are no "HP numbers" for this engine as it was most likely a design study of some sort.
Duncansport
02-04-2014, 05:09 PM #15Bruce did a lot of cool experimental engine work. Six stroke engine comes to mind,
Im sure there are no "HP numbers" for this engine as it was most likely a design study of some sort.
02-04-2014, 05:17 PM
#16
(02-04-2014, 05:03 PM)jsl240z Interesting responses, let me try clear up some things. First off the engine was made by legendary racer and engine builder Bruce Crower. The engine has a camshaft for the 2 exhaust valves per cylinder, there are no intake valves and it runs a positive displacement supercharger as the fuel/mix is forced in during compression of the cylinder.
hmm, how does it force the air/fuel mix into the cylinder? throu what?
seeing there seems to be a carburator before the supercharger, and it going into the head, hard to imagine that beeing directly feed into the cylinder true an open port?
seeing the pictures presented in the video i could swear there was an intake valve, but those ideas perhaps are totaly different ways of solving the two-stroke but both on an om617?
it shure as hell is cool, been in the thoughts of building myself a 2 stroke 1liter or 2 liter engine myself, seeing that my dirtbike put out 50hp from 250cc, 200hp from one liter and 400hp from 2 liter would be cool as hell
untill one has to fill it up :/
This post was last modified: 02-04-2014, 05:20 PM by swampmonkey.
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
swampmonkey
02-04-2014, 05:17 PM #16(02-04-2014, 05:03 PM)jsl240z Interesting responses, let me try clear up some things. First off the engine was made by legendary racer and engine builder Bruce Crower. The engine has a camshaft for the 2 exhaust valves per cylinder, there are no intake valves and it runs a positive displacement supercharger as the fuel/mix is forced in during compression of the cylinder.
hmm, how does it force the air/fuel mix into the cylinder? throu what?
seeing there seems to be a carburator before the supercharger, and it going into the head, hard to imagine that beeing directly feed into the cylinder true an open port?
seeing the pictures presented in the video i could swear there was an intake valve, but those ideas perhaps are totaly different ways of solving the two-stroke but both on an om617?
it shure as hell is cool, been in the thoughts of building myself a 2 stroke 1liter or 2 liter engine myself, seeing that my dirtbike put out 50hp from 250cc, 200hp from one liter and 400hp from 2 liter would be cool as hell
untill one has to fill it up :/
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
02-04-2014, 06:49 PM
#17
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
02-04-2014, 06:49 PM #17looks like a normal 4 stroke set up to me just 4 valves per cylinder and gas
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
02-04-2014, 06:53 PM
#18
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
02-04-2014, 06:53 PM #18Ooohhhhhhhhhhhhh what the hell is this thing?
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
02-04-2014, 08:22 PM
#20
(02-04-2014, 07:48 PM)jsl240z The engine does not need an intake valve because the piston rises to the point of covering the intake port. It seems to have many similarities with a detroit diesel 2 stroke.
okay, then it makes more sense, looking at the pictures, there seems to be no modifications to the block, but only the head is changed, but if they somehow has managed to get the inlet port to be covered by the piston it suddenly seems more ok
expansionchambers in the exhaust is nothing you have seen? seeing how different characteristics one gets just by altering the geometry on a regular two-stroke i was surprised to not see it on one of thse.
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
swampmonkey
02-04-2014, 08:22 PM #20(02-04-2014, 07:48 PM)jsl240z The engine does not need an intake valve because the piston rises to the point of covering the intake port. It seems to have many similarities with a detroit diesel 2 stroke.
okay, then it makes more sense, looking at the pictures, there seems to be no modifications to the block, but only the head is changed, but if they somehow has managed to get the inlet port to be covered by the piston it suddenly seems more ok
expansionchambers in the exhaust is nothing you have seen? seeing how different characteristics one gets just by altering the geometry on a regular two-stroke i was surprised to not see it on one of thse.
---------------------------------
daily driver
w115 240d 72hp 3.07 rearend
w123 om602 turbo 200whp 7.5mm pump fivespeed 3.07 rearend
+ a few more.
mbturbo.com
02-05-2014, 12:05 AM
#21
(02-04-2014, 12:06 PM)raysorenson How does is work without intake and exhaust ports in the cylinders?
It has a cam & valves, the cam is driven at the same speed as the crank, engines like this usually can't run without being under some amount of boost, this kind of mod is more commonly done to large motorcycle engines used for drag racing.
With the trouble gone to to make a custom head I'm surprised the builder didn't make it cross-flow too.
(02-04-2014, 12:06 PM)raysorenson How does is work without intake and exhaust ports in the cylinders?
It has a cam & valves, the cam is driven at the same speed as the crank, engines like this usually can't run without being under some amount of boost, this kind of mod is more commonly done to large motorcycle engines used for drag racing.
With the trouble gone to to make a custom head I'm surprised the builder didn't make it cross-flow too.
02-05-2014, 12:14 AM
#22
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
02-05-2014, 12:14 AM #22It looks like its crossflow, as the blower is going into the side of the engine with the oil filter, while the other side looks like exhaust?
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
02-05-2014, 12:35 AM
#23
lgreeley83 Is there a reason in theory as to why it looks like an octopus?
Yes, performance two stroke use tuned expansion chamber systems to improve performance. The swelled section of each pipe is calculated so that it creates a sound wave that bounces back up towards the engine. This wave pushes the fuel mixture that leaked into the exhaust system during the intake stoke back into the cylinder, sort of a supercharging effect.
Here's a moving diagram that illustrates the principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arbeit...eitakt.gif
The pipes are tuned so as they do this in a desired rpm range. This is one of the reasons why on a two stroke motorcycle with a tuned pipe you experience that sudden surge at a certain rpm. That surge is rebounding wave coinciding with the engine speed and pushing the fuel back in.
This post was last modified: 02-05-2014, 01:27 AM by dude99.
lgreeley83 Is there a reason in theory as to why it looks like an octopus?
Yes, performance two stroke use tuned expansion chamber systems to improve performance. The swelled section of each pipe is calculated so that it creates a sound wave that bounces back up towards the engine. This wave pushes the fuel mixture that leaked into the exhaust system during the intake stoke back into the cylinder, sort of a supercharging effect.
Here's a moving diagram that illustrates the principle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arbeit...eitakt.gif
The pipes are tuned so as they do this in a desired rpm range. This is one of the reasons why on a two stroke motorcycle with a tuned pipe you experience that sudden surge at a certain rpm. That surge is rebounding wave coinciding with the engine speed and pushing the fuel back in.
02-05-2014, 01:10 AM
#24
(02-05-2014, 12:35 AM)dude99 <quote=lgreeley83>Is there a reason in theory as to why it looks like an octopus?</quote>That isn't a functional expansion chamber, no convergent & divergent cones in that system, also expansion chambers usually don't work with mechanical exhaust valves, which is why 2 stroke diesels don't use expansion chambers.
Yes, performance two stroke use tuned expansion chamber systems to improve performance. The swelled section of each pipe is calculated so
(02-05-2014, 12:35 AM)dude99 <quote=lgreeley83>Is there a reason in theory as to why it looks like an octopus?</quote>That isn't a functional expansion chamber, no convergent & divergent cones in that system, also expansion chambers usually don't work with mechanical exhaust valves, which is why 2 stroke diesels don't use expansion chambers.
Yes, performance two stroke use tuned expansion chamber systems to improve performance. The swelled section of each pipe is calculated so
02-05-2014, 01:31 AM
#25
Quote:That isn't a functional expansion chamber, no convergent & divergent cones in that system, also expansion chambers usually don't work with mechanical exhaust valves, which is why 2 stroke diesels don't use expansion chambers.
I believe that he was referring to the video posted above, not the om617 in the first post. I answered regarding the piped in the video, which are expansion chamber pipes. I am aware that expansion chamber don't work with mechanical exhaust valves.
This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmnsXTMLzCE&app=desktop
Quote:That isn't a functional expansion chamber, no convergent & divergent cones in that system, also expansion chambers usually don't work with mechanical exhaust valves, which is why 2 stroke diesels don't use expansion chambers.
I believe that he was referring to the video posted above, not the om617 in the first post. I answered regarding the piped in the video, which are expansion chamber pipes. I am aware that expansion chamber don't work with mechanical exhaust valves.
This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmnsXTMLzCE&app=desktop
02-05-2014, 02:50 AM
#26
(02-05-2014, 01:31 AM)dude99Quote:That isn't a functional expansion chamber, no convergent & divergent cones in that system, also expansion chambers usually don't work with mechanical exhaust valves, which is why 2 stroke diesels don't use expansion chambers.
I believe that he was referring to the video posted above, not the om617 in the first post. I answered regarding the piped in the video, which are expansion chamber pipes. I am aware that expansion chamber don't work with mechanical exhaust valves.
This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmnsXTMLzCE&app=desktop
Oops, my mistake.
In the video looks like two v4 outboard motors coupled together, or did they actually make V8 outboards?
(02-05-2014, 01:31 AM)dude99Quote:That isn't a functional expansion chamber, no convergent & divergent cones in that system, also expansion chambers usually don't work with mechanical exhaust valves, which is why 2 stroke diesels don't use expansion chambers.
I believe that he was referring to the video posted above, not the om617 in the first post. I answered regarding the piped in the video, which are expansion chamber pipes. I am aware that expansion chamber don't work with mechanical exhaust valves.
This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmnsXTMLzCE&app=desktop
Oops, my mistake.
In the video looks like two v4 outboard motors coupled together, or did they actually make V8 outboards?
02-05-2014, 09:27 AM
#28
(02-04-2014, 05:03 PM)jsl240z Interesting responses, let me try clear up some things. First off the engine was made by legendary racer and engine builder Bruce Crower. The engine has a camshaft for the 2 exhaust valves per cylinder, there are no intake valves and it runs a positive displacement supercharger as the fuel/mix is forced in during compression of the cylinder.
To be clear, I'm talking about this engine:
What I don't understand here is how the pictured supercharger is positive displacement. If someone could clarify for me how, what appears to be a centrifugal supercharger, is a positive displacement supercharger I would be appreciative.
raysorenson
02-05-2014, 09:27 AM #28(02-04-2014, 05:03 PM)jsl240z Interesting responses, let me try clear up some things. First off the engine was made by legendary racer and engine builder Bruce Crower. The engine has a camshaft for the 2 exhaust valves per cylinder, there are no intake valves and it runs a positive displacement supercharger as the fuel/mix is forced in during compression of the cylinder.
To be clear, I'm talking about this engine:
What I don't understand here is how the pictured supercharger is positive displacement. If someone could clarify for me how, what appears to be a centrifugal supercharger, is a positive displacement supercharger I would be appreciative.
02-05-2014, 10:10 AM
#29
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
02-05-2014, 10:56 AM
#30
The air intake could be a flapper valve-when then piston is drawing down, or the boost exceeds the exhaust pressure fresh air comes into the cylinder. When the cylinder pressure is higher than the intake (compression/firing) the flapper would be forced closed. The cam now runs all 10 valves as exhaust valves.
This post was last modified: 02-05-2014, 10:56 AM by Simpler=Better.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-05-2014, 10:56 AM #30It's a gas conversion, I bet there's some kind of distributor where the IP should be.
The air intake could be a flapper valve-when then piston is drawing down, or the boost exceeds the exhaust pressure fresh air comes into the cylinder. When the cylinder pressure is higher than the intake (compression/firing) the flapper would be forced closed. The cam now runs all 10 valves as exhaust valves.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
02-05-2014, 12:24 PM
#32
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
A procharger like pictured isn't a positive displacement supercharger, so how could it work like a 2stroke Detroit?
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
02-05-2014, 12:41 PM
#33
(02-05-2014, 12:24 PM)MFSuper90 A procharger like pictured isn't a positive displacement supercharger, so how could it work like a 2stroke Detroit?
I don't think it needs to. Gas will fire with practically no compression (my bike fires with 95psi) so you would just need to start it "normally" maybe run the choke a bit.
The charger is there for power probably. Once you're up and spinning at 5k, it's going to blow a lot more fuel in there than just vacuum through the manifold.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-05-2014, 12:41 PM #33(02-05-2014, 12:24 PM)MFSuper90 A procharger like pictured isn't a positive displacement supercharger, so how could it work like a 2stroke Detroit?
I don't think it needs to. Gas will fire with practically no compression (my bike fires with 95psi) so you would just need to start it "normally" maybe run the choke a bit.
The charger is there for power probably. Once you're up and spinning at 5k, it's going to blow a lot more fuel in there than just vacuum through the manifold.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
02-05-2014, 06:49 PM
#34
Gas 2 strokes often use a reed valves for the intake. And supercharging is not necessary with a gasoline 2 stroke engine but can be done anyways
This post was last modified: 02-05-2014, 06:52 PM by willbhere4u.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
02-05-2014, 06:49 PM #34I'm still not convinced its actually a 2 stroke. It may very well be a 4stroke with a blower
Gas 2 strokes often use a reed valves for the intake. And supercharging is not necessary with a gasoline 2 stroke engine but can be done anyways
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
02-05-2014, 08:15 PM
#35
Ed
yankneck696
02-05-2014, 08:15 PM #35With the cog ratios, that procharger is spinning pretty darn fast. I would think it's definitely giving airflow at cranking speed. I would also think with that overspeed, it would be pretty hot, too.
Ed
02-05-2014, 09:43 PM
#36
(02-05-2014, 12:41 PM)Simpler=Better(02-05-2014, 12:24 PM)MFSuper90 A procharger like pictured isn't a positive displacement supercharger, so how could it work like a 2stroke Detroit?
I don't think it needs to. Gas will fire with practically no compression (my bike fires with 95psi) so you would just need to start it "normally" maybe run the choke a bit.
The charger is there for power probably. Once you're up and spinning at 5k, it's going to blow a lot more fuel in there than just vacuum through the manifold.
Very true, my brain is still in diesel mode
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(02-05-2014, 12:41 PM)Simpler=Better(02-05-2014, 12:24 PM)MFSuper90 A procharger like pictured isn't a positive displacement supercharger, so how could it work like a 2stroke Detroit?
I don't think it needs to. Gas will fire with practically no compression (my bike fires with 95psi) so you would just need to start it "normally" maybe run the choke a bit.
The charger is there for power probably. Once you're up and spinning at 5k, it's going to blow a lot more fuel in there than just vacuum through the manifold.
Very true, my brain is still in diesel mode
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
02-06-2014, 04:09 AM
#38
(02-04-2014, 05:03 PM)jsl240z The engine has a camshaft for the 2 exhaust valves per cylinder, there are no intake valves and it runs a positive displacement supercharger as the fuel/mix is forced in during compression of the cylinder.Are you sure there's no intake valves? The intake does run into the head, even with forced induction 2 stroke engines still need a means of covering/closing the intake ports.
(02-04-2014, 05:03 PM)jsl240z The engine has a camshaft for the 2 exhaust valves per cylinder, there are no intake valves and it runs a positive displacement supercharger as the fuel/mix is forced in during compression of the cylinder.Are you sure there's no intake valves? The intake does run into the head, even with forced induction 2 stroke engines still need a means of covering/closing the intake ports.
02-06-2014, 04:50 AM
#40
(02-06-2014, 04:09 AM)Tito That's indeed true. Normal small 2-stroke engines use crankcase pressure to draw en push mixture from carb to cylinder.
Not only that, they also have either a rotary valve, a reed valve or are piston ported.
If that engine is only using the pistons for intake timing it means the crowns of the pistons have to actually touch the head which would be very destructive pretty quickly.
This post was last modified: 02-06-2014, 04:50 AM by Eric78.
(02-06-2014, 04:09 AM)Tito That's indeed true. Normal small 2-stroke engines use crankcase pressure to draw en push mixture from carb to cylinder.
Not only that, they also have either a rotary valve, a reed valve or are piston ported.
If that engine is only using the pistons for intake timing it means the crowns of the pistons have to actually touch the head which would be very destructive pretty quickly.
02-06-2014, 09:27 AM
#41
The valve cover looks like it's made of lexan-can you get a picture down through the top?
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-06-2014, 09:27 AM #41We need more pics!!
The valve cover looks like it's made of lexan-can you get a picture down through the top?
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
02-06-2014, 08:07 PM
#42
Quote:We need more pics!!
The valve cover looks like it's made of lexan-can you get a picture down through the top?
I did not take the pictures I just found them.
Quote:If that engine is only using the pistons for intake timing it means the crowns of the pistons have to actually touch the head which would be very destructive pretty quickly.
Because I do not know anything about the engine other than what I can infer from the pictures, I am only speculating on it's operation. What I do observe is that the head is a great deal taller than the stock one and the combustion chamber and piston design is unknown. If the pistons have crowns is also an unknown. I know a little about engine design and If I could make my own head I would not use crowned/domed pistons, just my thoughts.
Quote:We need more pics!!
The valve cover looks like it's made of lexan-can you get a picture down through the top?
I did not take the pictures I just found them.
Quote:If that engine is only using the pistons for intake timing it means the crowns of the pistons have to actually touch the head which would be very destructive pretty quickly.
Because I do not know anything about the engine other than what I can infer from the pictures, I am only speculating on it's operation. What I do observe is that the head is a great deal taller than the stock one and the combustion chamber and piston design is unknown. If the pistons have crowns is also an unknown. I know a little about engine design and If I could make my own head I would not use crowned/domed pistons, just my thoughts.
02-07-2014, 10:49 AM
#43
Can you post a link as to where you found these photos?
This post was last modified: 02-07-2014, 10:52 AM by willbhere4u.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
02-07-2014, 10:49 AM #43It only looks tall the cylinder head is only the bottom half. The top half is a fancy valve cover possibly holding the cam
Can you post a link as to where you found these photos?
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
02-07-2014, 11:26 AM
#44
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showt...p?t=369048
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
Here's a mention of the 2-stroke mercedes engine, presumably the same as pictured above.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showt...p?t=369048
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD - 160k
'06.5 VW Jetta TDI - 230k
'82 MB 300TD - 116k (motor going to raysorenson)
'81 MB 300TD - 195k (parting out)
'71 Jeep DJ5 - diesel conversion project
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