Help with OM602 E290TD engine swap
Help with OM602 E290TD engine swap
I'm doing quite well having found the newer version OM602.982 engine from the E290 TD Merc saloons, up to 1999, but not released in the UK. Apparently from various forume's, its a great engine, lots of power, but still very reliable with high millage history.
The stats are:
The old engine OM602.942, 92BHP and 192 max torque
The newer 1997 OM602.982, 129 BHP and 300 max torque.
The HP increase isn’t much changed, but it’s the huge increase in torque that's interesting me.
The beauty about this engine, is that physical engine block, size, mountings, head casting, etc. seem exactly the same, so should drop straight in and mate up with my existing gearbox etc. and it has direct injection, VNT turbo, and re-designed head, as well as VE-injection pump.
My question is how much of the extra power/torque has come from the newer Bosch VE-style rotary distributor injection pump, which is electronically controlled with the ECU. And how much from the direct injection, redesigned head and VNT turbo? My very simplistic way of thinking is that the diesel pump is only delivering fuel, so as long as there is enough, it won’t impact performance? I see the main reason for the electronic pump, is fuel economy?
Adding an ECU system to a none electronic different vehicle, is making me shake with fear, as I’ve been down that road before!
So my questions are,
a) If I use my existing mechanical pump, I think it should fit, although not 100% sure, how much of the gained torque/HP would I loose, if any?
b) Am I right to be petrified of trying to retro fit the engine ECU system, as if possible will make the straight swop easier, give better economy and give me the option of re-chipping the ECU for even better performance?
I am presuming, over and above the engine electronics, the ECU option is going to require electronic speed input, throttle peddle position and even gear section, plus more? If all this is the case, it’s starting to become un-viable. to try and use the ECU route.
What do you think? Any knowledge/advice much appreciated.
I have decided to look for an engine replacment/swap for my underpowered Merc 410 1990 Hymer motor home, OM602.942 2.9 turbo, I have spent many hours trying to improve performance, see previous posts, but decided I'm flogging a dead horse and need to get something better in there.
I'm doing quite well having found the newer version OM602.982 engine from the E290 TD Merc saloons, up to 1999, but not released in the UK. Apparently from various forume's, its a great engine, lots of power, but still very reliable with high millage history.
The stats are:
The old engine OM602.942, 92BHP and 192 max torque
The newer 1997 OM602.982, 129 BHP and 300 max torque.
The HP increase isn’t much changed, but it’s the huge increase in torque that's interesting me.
The beauty about this engine, is that physical engine block, size, mountings, head casting, etc. seem exactly the same, so should drop straight in and mate up with my existing gearbox etc. and it has direct injection, VNT turbo, and re-designed head, as well as VE-injection pump.
My question is how much of the extra power/torque has come from the newer Bosch VE-style rotary distributor injection pump, which is electronically controlled with the ECU. And how much from the direct injection, redesigned head and VNT turbo? My very simplistic way of thinking is that the diesel pump is only delivering fuel, so as long as there is enough, it won’t impact performance? I see the main reason for the electronic pump, is fuel economy?
Adding an ECU system to a none electronic different vehicle, is making me shake with fear, as I’ve been down that road before!
So my questions are,
a) If I use my existing mechanical pump, I think it should fit, although not 100% sure, how much of the gained torque/HP would I loose, if any?
b) Am I right to be petrified of trying to retro fit the engine ECU system, as if possible will make the straight swop easier, give better economy and give me the option of re-chipping the ECU for even better performance?
I am presuming, over and above the engine electronics, the ECU option is going to require electronic speed input, throttle peddle position and even gear section, plus more? If all this is the case, it’s starting to become un-viable. to try and use the ECU route.
What do you think? Any knowledge/advice much appreciated.
The cheapest and easiest way that I can think of to control the 982 would be to obtain an older turbo 602 inline pump (since I know where to find them easily). That way you would not have to worry about how to adjust for increased fuel output from your current inline pump.
Does your current motor actually have a turbo? The hp and torque difference looks very similar to being due to non-turbo vs turbo. And if it doesn't then you'd have to look into how the turbo motor would fit.
The cheapest and easiest way that I can think of to control the 982 would be to obtain an older turbo 602 inline pump (since I know where to find them easily). That way you would not have to worry about how to adjust for increased fuel output from your current inline pump.
(09-29-2013, 12:51 PM)aaa Does your current motor actually have a turbo? The hp and torque difference looks very similar to being due to non-turbo vs turbo. And if it doesn't then you'd have to look into how the turbo motor would fit.
The cheapest and easiest way that I can think of to control the 982 would be to obtain an older turbo 602 inline pump (since I know where to find them easily). That way you would not have to worry about how to adjust for increased fuel output from your current inline pump.
It has a retro fitted turbo intercooler set up which is a proper job. I think the company who fitted them, estimated 115HP and 10% injcrease in torque, so still a long way off 300.
(09-29-2013, 12:51 PM)aaa Does your current motor actually have a turbo? The hp and torque difference looks very similar to being due to non-turbo vs turbo. And if it doesn't then you'd have to look into how the turbo motor would fit.
The cheapest and easiest way that I can think of to control the 982 would be to obtain an older turbo 602 inline pump (since I know where to find them easily). That way you would not have to worry about how to adjust for increased fuel output from your current inline pump.
It has a retro fitted turbo intercooler set up which is a proper job. I think the company who fitted them, estimated 115HP and 10% injcrease in torque, so still a long way off 300.
Get a 605.960/1/2, change the IP from a 602, wich u already have , and tweek IP for full load. 60X engines are the same family what changes is just the nr of cylinders.
the 602.98X is just a 602 that was not able to comply with euro3 emissions, so MB had a lot of clientes wich wanted to stay with the 5 cyl 10 V engines due to is fame of reliability and resilience.
so to get them pass the euro3 rules they increased the size to 3000L and fitted the engine with direct injection , ECU, VNT turbo and catalisers etc etc. basically this 602.98x is just a 602.96x euro 3 compliant, and the worst shit MB ever done with this 60x engines family.
in a few words , run as far as u can from this hybrid kind.
regards
FD
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
hy there,
Get a 605.960/1/2, change the IP from a 602, wich u already have , and tweek IP for full load. 60X engines are the same family what changes is just the nr of cylinders.
the 602.98X is just a 602 that was not able to comply with euro3 emissions, so MB had a lot of clientes wich wanted to stay with the 5 cyl 10 V engines due to is fame of reliability and resilience.
so to get them pass the euro3 rules they increased the size to 3000L and fitted the engine with direct injection , ECU, VNT turbo and catalisers etc etc. basically this 602.98x is just a 602.96x euro 3 compliant, and the worst shit MB ever done with this 60x engines family.
in a few words , run as far as u can from this hybrid kind.
regards
FD
FD,
Powered by tractor fuel
(09-29-2013, 01:42 PM)barrote hy there,Thanks for the detailed knowledgre. My only question, is the 602.960 going to be a noticable improvment on my 602.942?
Get a 605.960/1/2, change the IP from a 602, wich u already have , and tweek IP for full load. 60X engines are the same family what changes is just the nr of cylinders.
the 602.98X is just a 602 that was not able to comply with euro3 emissions, so MB had a lot of clientes wich wanted to stay with the 5 cyl 10 V engines due to is fame of reliability and resilience.
so to get them pass the euro3 rules they increased the size to 3000L and fitted the engine with direct injection , ECU, VNT turbo and catalisers etc etc. basically this 602.98x is just a 602.96x euro 3 compliant, and the worst shit MB ever done with this 60x engines family.
in a few words , run as far as u can from this hybrid kind.
regards
FD
John
(09-29-2013, 01:42 PM)barrote hy there,Thanks for the detailed knowledgre. My only question, is the 602.960 going to be a noticable improvment on my 602.942?
Get a 605.960/1/2, change the IP from a 602, wich u already have , and tweek IP for full load. 60X engines are the same family what changes is just the nr of cylinders.
the 602.98X is just a 602 that was not able to comply with euro3 emissions, so MB had a lot of clientes wich wanted to stay with the 5 cyl 10 V engines due to is fame of reliability and resilience.
so to get them pass the euro3 rules they increased the size to 3000L and fitted the engine with direct injection , ECU, VNT turbo and catalisers etc etc. basically this 602.98x is just a 602.96x euro 3 compliant, and the worst shit MB ever done with this 60x engines family.
in a few words , run as far as u can from this hybrid kind.
regards
FD
John
(09-30-2013, 05:05 AM)barrote come on man,I agree, i'd love to go bigger, but i cant find anyone with answers about what will fit! I dont want to end up with a huge enginering job trying to get it to fit in and bolt up to the gearbox etc. The 602.960 will drop in on the original engine mounts and bolt up to the gearbox, no problem, easy job. Now if you tell me the 605 will do this as well, then i'm all ears.
forguet the 602, even if u turbo it it wont go past 130hp at most , i mean with stock. a 605 is 150hp stock. well is up to u there are people here with the 61x series i mean 615/6/7.
regards.
FD.
Cheers John
(09-30-2013, 05:05 AM)barrote come on man,I agree, i'd love to go bigger, but i cant find anyone with answers about what will fit! I dont want to end up with a huge enginering job trying to get it to fit in and bolt up to the gearbox etc. The 602.960 will drop in on the original engine mounts and bolt up to the gearbox, no problem, easy job. Now if you tell me the 605 will do this as well, then i'm all ears.
forguet the 602, even if u turbo it it wont go past 130hp at most , i mean with stock. a 605 is 150hp stock. well is up to u there are people here with the 61x series i mean 615/6/7.
regards.
FD.
Cheers John
1 that the om 602.982 is a bad engine I have seen a lot of Mercedes sprinters with 400.000 to 500.000 km without any problems.
2 that's its only possible to get 130hp from a 602 is not correct try and look on the SsangYong Musso or Korando they std have a 2,9 L turbo called om662 with 120hp and 255 torque.
my own Ssangyong has 140 hp with only fuel pump tweaks air filter and exhaust.
the engine is the same as your engine if you remove the turbo and intercooler you cant tell the different.
you can use flywheel and oil sump + oil pump from your own engine
there is many SsangYong in the UK try look at the ssangyongclub.co.uk its a very good club with many helpful people.
if you get 30 to 40 hp more I think your ok and you can use your old engine as spare parts.
if you want a racing motorhome with more than 200hp go for the 605.
Hansen
well I hear a lot of things here that I don't agree with
1 that the om 602.982 is a bad engine I have seen a lot of Mercedes sprinters with 400.000 to 500.000 km without any problems.
2 that's its only possible to get 130hp from a 602 is not correct try and look on the SsangYong Musso or Korando they std have a 2,9 L turbo called om662 with 120hp and 255 torque.
my own Ssangyong has 140 hp with only fuel pump tweaks air filter and exhaust.
the engine is the same as your engine if you remove the turbo and intercooler you cant tell the different.
you can use flywheel and oil sump + oil pump from your own engine
there is many SsangYong in the UK try look at the ssangyongclub.co.uk its a very good club with many helpful people.
if you get 30 to 40 hp more I think your ok and you can use your old engine as spare parts.
if you want a racing motorhome with more than 200hp go for the 605.
Hansen
When you say the 602.982 is exactly the same as the 602.942 that i have, once you take the turbo off etc, I presume you mean on the outside, as i thought the 982 had a different head and direct injection? I have a 942 with a retro fitted turbo inter-cooler in the motorhome now and its very very underpowered. I was hoping a 982, with later VNT turbo etc would be much much better, especially the torque? I am starting to go around in circles here! Thanks John
Thanks Hanson.
When you say the 602.982 is exactly the same as the 602.942 that i have, once you take the turbo off etc, I presume you mean on the outside, as i thought the 982 had a different head and direct injection? I have a 942 with a retro fitted turbo inter-cooler in the motorhome now and its very very underpowered. I was hoping a 982, with later VNT turbo etc would be much much better, especially the torque? I am starting to go around in circles here! Thanks John
First thing you should know about the motor is that it is a TDI and not an IDI. Thus the VE style pump, beyond that the delivery plate is configured so that fuel delivery happens faster and at greater volume, so using a mechanical VE pump from an IDI motor will probably give you marginal results.
The other issue is timing... The electronic VE pump has a much greater range of dynamic timing that is controlled by the ECU for cold starting, smog, "limp-home" mode, etc. Though my hybrid VE pump works great, it was a TOTAL PITA getting getting the static timing correct because there is 0% percent info on the web about it and the only way I got it correct is by pulling the pump several times to change the cog alignment and then fine turn with the side timing screw.
I have dialed it in to be about 99.8% perfect and am stoked with the additional power! However, after the exercise... I wish that I just swapped motors for a OM603.
My OM602 is in a motorhome also
...![[Image: bola_camp1.jpg]](http://www.overlandhardware.com/images/bola_camp1.jpg)
Joaquin Suave
09-30-2013, 10:13 AM #11I have converted my OM602.982 from electroniclly controlled to purely mechanical!
First thing you should know about the motor is that it is a TDI and not an IDI. Thus the VE style pump, beyond that the delivery plate is configured so that fuel delivery happens faster and at greater volume, so using a mechanical VE pump from an IDI motor will probably give you marginal results.
The other issue is timing... The electronic VE pump has a much greater range of dynamic timing that is controlled by the ECU for cold starting, smog, "limp-home" mode, etc. Though my hybrid VE pump works great, it was a TOTAL PITA getting getting the static timing correct because there is 0% percent info on the web about it and the only way I got it correct is by pulling the pump several times to change the cog alignment and then fine turn with the side timing screw.
I have dialed it in to be about 99.8% perfect and am stoked with the additional power! However, after the exercise... I wish that I just swapped motors for a OM603.
My OM602 is in a motorhome also ...
Mine is just a bit heavier than yours! It still amazes me that as standard this truck is fitted with the same engine as a Mercedes saloon car. No wonder its slow. I drove 5000 miles around europe this summer and i cant take it any more, I need more power!!
(09-30-2013, 10:46 AM)Joaquin Suave JEEZE LOUISE... Do you think your brought enough Mt. bikes???
See what i mean now. This is what happens when you have a wife and 4 kids......a lot of stuff!
(09-30-2013, 10:25 AM)aaa You could just upgrade the pump and increase the boost you have on your current setup. What boost does it run now?
Basically i don't know. There is no gauge and the company that fitted the turbo inter-cooler retired a few years ago. My pump has been advanced pretty much as far as it would go i believe (had it checked) but that information could be wrong.
What about a vnt turbo, and upgraded pump? Someone told me that the VNT turbo's gave much better power/torque? Or does anybody no a company that would have the knowledge to do something for me, as i'm getting out of my depth with tuning pumps and changing turbo's etc.
(09-30-2013, 11:08 AM)dcm What mods have you previously tried to increase the power? (couldn't see any previous posts) Did the company fit a boost gauge, I remember seeing a uk w124 converted which had one added to the dash?
Basically bought the camper a couple of years ago. Previous owner had the turbo inter-cooler conversion done, on the original OM602.942 2.9 5cyl engine with manual gearbox.
When i drove the camper home, i was astounded at how slow it was. I have changed gearbox and wheel size to help gearing so now you can cruise at 55-60mph without the engine screaming its nuts off, which was what is was like when i bought it. But, the engine just doesn't have enough power and dies on the slight'ist incline. I have replaced all fuel filters checked air filter, blockages just about everything you could think of apart from timing. The waste gate is ok and throttle linkage is fine.
I wonder if the reason it came with such small 14 inch wheels and the none overdrive gearbox as standard is because it was so underpowered for the size of conversion Hymer did to it, that is was the only way they could get over it being so underpowered.
Basically when i drive it, its foot to floor pretty much all the time, just to reach speeds of 55-60mph. There is no reserve, nothing to overtake, nothing to get you up over the Alps! I really need at least 20% more power. Hence looking for an engine swap.
The only things i can think of doing to increase performance, is more air, (bigger/better turbo), cooler air (even bigger inter-cooler, its big already) or more fuel (tuning or bigger pump).
But what turbo? What pump? And does anybody know what increase i'll get? You can see from the pics, this is a big heavy truck, to power around, not a relatively small saloon.
(09-30-2013, 10:46 AM)Joaquin Suave JEEZE LOUISE... Do you think your brought enough Mt. bikes???
See what i mean now. This is what happens when you have a wife and 4 kids......a lot of stuff!
(09-30-2013, 10:25 AM)aaa You could just upgrade the pump and increase the boost you have on your current setup. What boost does it run now?
Basically i don't know. There is no gauge and the company that fitted the turbo inter-cooler retired a few years ago. My pump has been advanced pretty much as far as it would go i believe (had it checked) but that information could be wrong.
What about a vnt turbo, and upgraded pump? Someone told me that the VNT turbo's gave much better power/torque? Or does anybody no a company that would have the knowledge to do something for me, as i'm getting out of my depth with tuning pumps and changing turbo's etc.
(09-30-2013, 11:08 AM)dcm What mods have you previously tried to increase the power? (couldn't see any previous posts) Did the company fit a boost gauge, I remember seeing a uk w124 converted which had one added to the dash?
Basically bought the camper a couple of years ago. Previous owner had the turbo inter-cooler conversion done, on the original OM602.942 2.9 5cyl engine with manual gearbox.
When i drove the camper home, i was astounded at how slow it was. I have changed gearbox and wheel size to help gearing so now you can cruise at 55-60mph without the engine screaming its nuts off, which was what is was like when i bought it. But, the engine just doesn't have enough power and dies on the slight'ist incline. I have replaced all fuel filters checked air filter, blockages just about everything you could think of apart from timing. The waste gate is ok and throttle linkage is fine.
I wonder if the reason it came with such small 14 inch wheels and the none overdrive gearbox as standard is because it was so underpowered for the size of conversion Hymer did to it, that is was the only way they could get over it being so underpowered.
Basically when i drive it, its foot to floor pretty much all the time, just to reach speeds of 55-60mph. There is no reserve, nothing to overtake, nothing to get you up over the Alps! I really need at least 20% more power. Hence looking for an engine swap.
The only things i can think of doing to increase performance, is more air, (bigger/better turbo), cooler air (even bigger inter-cooler, its big already) or more fuel (tuning or bigger pump).
But what turbo? What pump? And does anybody know what increase i'll get? You can see from the pics, this is a big heavy truck, to power around, not a relatively small saloon.
in the om602 29dela there are bars on the place wher normally the injection timing mechanismus is sitting.
so you have to cut them to put in the injection timing machanism and the inline pump
if i made this project i would modifiy the itm (injetion timing mechanism) so that it not only has a way of 8degree but some degree more.
then it will run with an inlin pump
the turbo modify on overpressure wastegate and ready, no bigger turbo and so on .
uli
hi
in the om602 29dela there are bars on the place wher normally the injection timing mechanismus is sitting.
so you have to cut them to put in the injection timing machanism and the inline pump
if i made this project i would modifiy the itm (injetion timing mechanism) so that it not only has a way of 8degree but some degree more.
then it will run with an inlin pump
the turbo modify on overpressure wastegate and ready, no bigger turbo and so on .
uli
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