616 Turbo Short-Block build
616 Turbo Short-Block build
09-10-2013, 10:59 PM
#1
I have not seen a good picture of the 617a piston skirt to know for sure where the sqirter is spraying the oil, for the 616 piston, I would like to aim for the prechamber , but I do not think the 617a does that, from what I recall it aims next to the pin. Anyone got any good pics of the squirters in the block and the piston?
I am totally comfortable running the stock 616 piston / turbo combination with out the squirters, but the extra cooling and lubrication would be a plus.
So far I have been unable to find a good 616 to replace the tired one in my 201 chassis, so I am looking to rebuild mine instead. If I go that direction, I want to add piston squirters to it, and preferably, 617a pistons and rods, but the cost of the pistons are crazy so I am looking at modifying the 616 pistons to clear the squirter nozzles.
I have not seen a good picture of the 617a piston skirt to know for sure where the sqirter is spraying the oil, for the 616 piston, I would like to aim for the prechamber , but I do not think the 617a does that, from what I recall it aims next to the pin. Anyone got any good pics of the squirters in the block and the piston?
I am totally comfortable running the stock 616 piston / turbo combination with out the squirters, but the extra cooling and lubrication would be a plus.
09-11-2013, 07:25 AM
#2
I couldn't find it but I did see someone mentioning using another squirter in lieu of the mb one.
http://www.rallyrace.net/jvab/spgm/index...ional_Mods
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
There was one guy here who said he was making a jig to drill on the 616 block so he could mount those squirters. Unfortunately, that's all i remember. Maybe you could search it out.
I couldn't find it but I did see someone mentioning using another squirter in lieu of the mb one.
http://www.rallyrace.net/jvab/spgm/index...ional_Mods
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
09-11-2013, 02:32 PM
#3
This post was last modified: 09-11-2013, 02:34 PM by willbhere4u.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
09-11-2013, 02:32 PM #3You have an om616 in a w201 chassis how much work did that take? I didn't think that would fit in there? They are much taller than the om601
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
![[Image: EnfineOM617A.jpg]](http://www.zarnochwf1.com/gallery2/d/613-2/EnfineOM617A.jpg)
09-11-2013, 09:03 PM
#5
(09-10-2013, 10:59 PM)OM616 So far I have been unable to find a good 616 to replace the tired one in my 201 chassis, so I am looking to rebuild mine instead. If I go that direction, I want to add piston squirters to it, and preferably, 617a pistons and rods, but the cost of the pistons are crazy so I am looking at modifying the 616 pistons to clear the squirter nozzles.
I have not seen a good picture of the 617a piston skirt to know for sure where the sqirter is spraying the oil, for the 616 piston, I would like to aim for the prechamber , but I do not think the 617a does that, from what I recall it aims next to the pin. Anyone got any good pics of the squirters in the block and the piston?
I am totally comfortable running the stock 616 piston / turbo combination with out the squirters, but the extra cooling and lubrication would be a plus.
buy used pistons!
Austincarnut
09-11-2013, 09:03 PM #5(09-10-2013, 10:59 PM)OM616 So far I have been unable to find a good 616 to replace the tired one in my 201 chassis, so I am looking to rebuild mine instead. If I go that direction, I want to add piston squirters to it, and preferably, 617a pistons and rods, but the cost of the pistons are crazy so I am looking at modifying the 616 pistons to clear the squirter nozzles.
I have not seen a good picture of the 617a piston skirt to know for sure where the sqirter is spraying the oil, for the 616 piston, I would like to aim for the prechamber , but I do not think the 617a does that, from what I recall it aims next to the pin. Anyone got any good pics of the squirters in the block and the piston?
I am totally comfortable running the stock 616 piston / turbo combination with out the squirters, but the extra cooling and lubrication would be a plus.
buy used pistons!
09-12-2013, 09:40 AM
#6
(09-11-2013, 02:32 PM)willbhere4u You have an om616 in a w201 chassis how much work did that take? I didn't think that would fit in there? They are much taller than the om601
Well I have a turbo 616 and a 4 speed in a 201 chassis lol.... I had to radically modify the oil filter housing to make it fit, but other than that I was surprised how well it fit in the chassis... I had seen pics of a 616 initially placed in the engine bay of a 201, but never a finished product. I have a 4 cylinder model so the radiator is father back than the 6 cylinder, but I was able to still use the mechanical fan with a clutch on it.
I am extremely happy with the combination, unfortunately I was only able to get 8,000 miles on it before the engine tuckered out at 260K, so I have been looking all summer for a good replacement, but have not found one...
(09-11-2013, 04:16 PM)mantahead OM616, don't know if this is any help.
number 44 oil squirter.
Thanks, I have seen that image before and it was what made me think the squirter was aimed next to the wrist pin, but looking at it again with that in mind, it looks like it is about half way around between the pin and skirt center.
I could always make my own nozzles and aim them between the PC and the center of the piston if I had to...
____________
I have done some searching prior to posting and did not find anything regarding adding piston sqiurters to the 616 block. It would be nice to have a 617a block here to use as a template to make a drilling fixture.
(09-11-2013, 09:03 PM)Austincarnut buy used pistons!
You are kidding right??????? Although that sounds like a reasonable idea, the idea of rebuilding an engine is to bring it back to speck and pistons with 200K+ miles on them will have ring groves that are shot, be fatigued, and have unevenly worn skirts... In a pinch to get off the island sure, but to go to the lengths of rebuilding, I would rather go with new NA pistons than worn out turbo pistons... but that is just me
This post was last modified: 09-12-2013, 09:53 AM by OM616.
(09-11-2013, 02:32 PM)willbhere4u You have an om616 in a w201 chassis how much work did that take? I didn't think that would fit in there? They are much taller than the om601
Well I have a turbo 616 and a 4 speed in a 201 chassis lol.... I had to radically modify the oil filter housing to make it fit, but other than that I was surprised how well it fit in the chassis... I had seen pics of a 616 initially placed in the engine bay of a 201, but never a finished product. I have a 4 cylinder model so the radiator is father back than the 6 cylinder, but I was able to still use the mechanical fan with a clutch on it.
I am extremely happy with the combination, unfortunately I was only able to get 8,000 miles on it before the engine tuckered out at 260K, so I have been looking all summer for a good replacement, but have not found one...
(09-11-2013, 04:16 PM)mantahead OM616, don't know if this is any help.
number 44 oil squirter.
Thanks, I have seen that image before and it was what made me think the squirter was aimed next to the wrist pin, but looking at it again with that in mind, it looks like it is about half way around between the pin and skirt center.
I could always make my own nozzles and aim them between the PC and the center of the piston if I had to...
____________
I have done some searching prior to posting and did not find anything regarding adding piston sqiurters to the 616 block. It would be nice to have a 617a block here to use as a template to make a drilling fixture.
(09-11-2013, 09:03 PM)Austincarnut buy used pistons!
You are kidding right??????? Although that sounds like a reasonable idea, the idea of rebuilding an engine is to bring it back to speck and pistons with 200K+ miles on them will have ring groves that are shot, be fatigued, and have unevenly worn skirts... In a pinch to get off the island sure, but to go to the lengths of rebuilding, I would rather go with new NA pistons than worn out turbo pistons... but that is just me
09-12-2013, 10:04 PM
#7
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
09-12-2013, 10:04 PM #7I was just about to start a thread about rebuilding the 616 in my 240, and turboing it, but I'll wait and watch this thread a bit to see where it goes. I too was wondering about whether or not I should go with oil squirters and turbo pistons/rods, or what
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
09-13-2013, 08:08 AM
#8
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
09-13-2013, 08:08 AM #8Any chance you're going to go crazy with stronger rods, a crank girdle, and run it up around 300hp?
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
09-13-2013, 08:48 AM
#9
And yes, NEW, and not re-furbished or re-manufactured. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_OM616. In 1982, Bajaj Tempo, now Force Motors, signed a deal with Daimler Benz to manufacture the OM616 Mercedes engine under licence in India for fitting on its line of vehicles. This Mercedes engine gave the company a technological edge over other Indian manufacturers leading to the success of several Bajaj Tempo models.
The Mercedes OM 616 or its variants still power the light commercial vehicles of Bajaj Tempo, including the tempo traveller, the new Excel series of trucks and the Trax range of multi-utility vehicles. At present, Bajaj Tempo is also assembling other Mercedes engines and supplying it to Mercedes Benz India Ltd.
The Bajaj Tempo OM616 engine is configured for different power outputs depending on the intended usage, from a 65BHP version, to the 91BHP Turbo charged version used in the Trax Gurkha (Which is superficially similar to the Geländewagen design)
Specs of the OM616 used in the Trax SUV: Model OM - 616(D-98)* Type 4 Cylinder, 4 Stroke, IDI Bore/Stroke (mm.) 90.9 X 92.4 Displacement (cc.) 2399 Compression Ratio 21:1 Max.Output 43.5 kW (ISO) at 4000 RPM Max. Torque 130 Nm @ 1800-2000 RPM Air filter Oil Bath Type Oil filter Bye pass flow type paper filter Fuel filter Dual filter Oil sump capacity (Lts) 6.5
By the time you include time, finding new stuff, rebuilding old stuff, under $5K seems like a good deal for NEW vs. reman. My .02 cents. Sorry to hi-jack your thread Dave ...
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
They still make this engine brand new in India. They install the 4 banger OM616 TURBO in current models manufactured in India. They have the oil squirters, turbo, et cet. There was a guy selling 10 of these brand new engines for around $4,500 USD a piece which seems pretty reasonable to me. Not sure if any are left. It will take a pound of Gynko for me to remember where I saw the add.
And yes, NEW, and not re-furbished or re-manufactured. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_OM616. In 1982, Bajaj Tempo, now Force Motors, signed a deal with Daimler Benz to manufacture the OM616 Mercedes engine under licence in India for fitting on its line of vehicles. This Mercedes engine gave the company a technological edge over other Indian manufacturers leading to the success of several Bajaj Tempo models.
The Mercedes OM 616 or its variants still power the light commercial vehicles of Bajaj Tempo, including the tempo traveller, the new Excel series of trucks and the Trax range of multi-utility vehicles. At present, Bajaj Tempo is also assembling other Mercedes engines and supplying it to Mercedes Benz India Ltd.
The Bajaj Tempo OM616 engine is configured for different power outputs depending on the intended usage, from a 65BHP version, to the 91BHP Turbo charged version used in the Trax Gurkha (Which is superficially similar to the Geländewagen design)
Specs of the OM616 used in the Trax SUV: Model OM - 616(D-98)* Type 4 Cylinder, 4 Stroke, IDI Bore/Stroke (mm.) 90.9 X 92.4 Displacement (cc.) 2399 Compression Ratio 21:1 Max.Output 43.5 kW (ISO) at 4000 RPM Max. Torque 130 Nm @ 1800-2000 RPM Air filter Oil Bath Type Oil filter Bye pass flow type paper filter Fuel filter Dual filter Oil sump capacity (Lts) 6.5
By the time you include time, finding new stuff, rebuilding old stuff, under $5K seems like a good deal for NEW vs. reman. My .02 cents. Sorry to hi-jack your thread Dave ...
Ninth Year Anniversary with STD on 1-9-2020
visit: www.dieselfuelinjector.guru
Project 2018: Really get the car finished -- Turbo OM617 greater than 175 MPH goal.
RED W123 - left Germany as 240D in 1982. Full AMG body kit less rear apron, 2:65LSD, five speed Getrag 717.400, manual steering, read leather interior, manual brake conversion, electric water pump (EWP), and a bunch of other goodies ...
09-13-2013, 11:17 AM
#10
(09-13-2013, 08:08 AM)Simpler=Better Any chance you're going to go crazy with stronger rods, a crank girdle, and run it up around 300hp?
LOL.... no nothing crazy... those days are behind me I think. A solid 150/200 HP when I need it will do just fine in that little car..
(09-13-2013, 08:48 AM)Greazzer They still make this engine brand new in India. Sorry to hi-jack your thread Dave ...
Good information, not hijacking at all... I recall what you are talking about... The engine is a 617a with one less cylinder if I remember correctly.
I can get as set quality new 616 pistons for about $500, not sure on the cost for the valves and guides, bearings are cheep, chain isn't too bad either.... I want to run either a NA 300D pump or make a higher volume pump for it. I can do all the machining on the block & head, even can recondition the rods in house, so the cash out of pocket looks to be around $2500 ish.
I did find a motor that has about 130K on it and has no blow by, and he wants a lot of money for it, but less than $2500... Swapping out the engine would be a lot less time and that is worth a lot given I do not have any free time lol...
This post was last modified: 09-13-2013, 11:26 AM by OM616.
(09-13-2013, 08:08 AM)Simpler=Better Any chance you're going to go crazy with stronger rods, a crank girdle, and run it up around 300hp?
LOL.... no nothing crazy... those days are behind me I think. A solid 150/200 HP when I need it will do just fine in that little car..
(09-13-2013, 08:48 AM)Greazzer They still make this engine brand new in India. Sorry to hi-jack your thread Dave ...
Good information, not hijacking at all... I recall what you are talking about... The engine is a 617a with one less cylinder if I remember correctly.
I can get as set quality new 616 pistons for about $500, not sure on the cost for the valves and guides, bearings are cheep, chain isn't too bad either.... I want to run either a NA 300D pump or make a higher volume pump for it. I can do all the machining on the block & head, even can recondition the rods in house, so the cash out of pocket looks to be around $2500 ish.
I did find a motor that has about 130K on it and has no blow by, and he wants a lot of money for it, but less than $2500... Swapping out the engine would be a lot less time and that is worth a lot given I do not have any free time lol...
09-18-2013, 10:50 PM
#12
(09-18-2013, 05:37 PM)ronnie I have a 617a stripped but still in the car, want anything from it? no idea of the mileage. I was in Toledo a few weeks ago and could have brought it with me, wish I had known.
Your engine crossed my mind a time or two... lol
There was a couple I looked locally a few months ago, but no response when I tried to contact them Monday.. A block would be great to use for making the drill tool, Plus the oil nozzles, and possibly the rods too..
I have to get rid of a couple cars and a boat first, that will give me some more room in the shop so I can pull mine down and possibly get a 617a for parts...
I had a line on a fresh 616 short block and head, but the seller started to sound shaky so I passed on it.. I feel better about redoing mine how I want it anyway.
(09-18-2013, 05:37 PM)ronnie I have a 617a stripped but still in the car, want anything from it? no idea of the mileage. I was in Toledo a few weeks ago and could have brought it with me, wish I had known.
Your engine crossed my mind a time or two... lol
There was a couple I looked locally a few months ago, but no response when I tried to contact them Monday.. A block would be great to use for making the drill tool, Plus the oil nozzles, and possibly the rods too..
I have to get rid of a couple cars and a boat first, that will give me some more room in the shop so I can pull mine down and possibly get a 617a for parts...
I had a line on a fresh 616 short block and head, but the seller started to sound shaky so I passed on it.. I feel better about redoing mine how I want it anyway.
09-19-2013, 07:18 PM
#14
(09-19-2013, 05:43 PM)ronnie ok it's here if you want it, no hurry.
I would feel better about putting 617a rods in it, given 616 rods tend to try to escape from time to time on stock engines. I haven't heard of any turbo rods doing that.
I'm trying to get a line on new turbo pistons for it.
09-20-2013, 05:11 PM
#15
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
09-20-2013, 05:11 PM #15You should post a build page on here with some pictures. It sounds like an interesting swap I'd like to see your turbo setup! There was a w110 200d with a turbo'd 240d engine on youtube that was pretty wild.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
09-21-2013, 01:04 PM
#16
(09-20-2013, 05:11 PM)willbhere4u You should post a build page on here with some pictures. It sounds like an interesting swap I'd like to see your turbo setup! There was a w110 200d with a turbo'd 240d engine on youtube that was pretty wild.
Here is a link to the thread on the car http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/dies...assis.html
I am going to upgrade to a GT2256V for the larger pump, the rigging will be the same.
(09-20-2013, 05:11 PM)willbhere4u You should post a build page on here with some pictures. It sounds like an interesting swap I'd like to see your turbo setup! There was a w110 200d with a turbo'd 240d engine on youtube that was pretty wild.
Here is a link to the thread on the car http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/dies...assis.html
I am going to upgrade to a GT2256V for the larger pump, the rigging will be the same.
09-25-2013, 11:37 AM
#17
I do need to confirm that the 616 and 617a rod center to center is the same first....
I am also wondering if the 617a sleeves are made from the same material as the 616 sleeves? The 617a engines seem to go a lot longer with out blow by than the 616 does. This is either a result of better oiling from the squirters, cooler pistons that do not expand as much as the 616 pistons, putting less pressure on the sleeves, or the 617a sleeves have more nickel in them making them harder... I think the aftermarket part numbers are the same, but I am more interested in the MB part numbers for the 617a and 616 sleeves.... Anyone have any idea?
617a pistons are stupid expensive..., so I am really leaning toward using 617a rods and reduce the small end to match the 616 rod and mod the piston skirts for the squirters. This would give me stronger rods and cooler pistons for the lowest cost.
I do need to confirm that the 616 and 617a rod center to center is the same first....
I am also wondering if the 617a sleeves are made from the same material as the 616 sleeves? The 617a engines seem to go a lot longer with out blow by than the 616 does. This is either a result of better oiling from the squirters, cooler pistons that do not expand as much as the 616 pistons, putting less pressure on the sleeves, or the 617a sleeves have more nickel in them making them harder... I think the aftermarket part numbers are the same, but I am more interested in the MB part numbers for the 617a and 616 sleeves.... Anyone have any idea?
09-25-2013, 11:51 AM
#18
(09-25-2013, 11:37 AM)OM616 617a pistons are stupid expensive..., so I am really leaning toward using 617a rods and reduce the small end to match the 616 rod and mod the piston skirts for the squirters. This would give me stronger rods and cooler pistons for the lowest cost.I want to say that crazy strong volvo rods can be easily swapped as well.
I do need to confirm that the 616 and 617a rod center to center is the same first....
I am also wondering if the 617a sleeves are made from the same material as the 616 sleeves? The 617a engines seem to go a lot longer with out blow by than the 616 does. This is either a result of better oiling from the squirters, cooler pistons that do not expand as much as the 616 pistons, putting less pressure on the sleeves, or the 617a sleeves have more nickel in them making them harder... I think the aftermarket part numbers are the same, but I am more interested in the MB part numbers for the 617a and 616 sleeves.... Anyone have any idea?
If you're going through the trouble of resizing rods, would you consider buying custom rods? IIRC custom forged turbo ford rods are around $100/ea
No idea on the sleeves
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
09-25-2013, 11:51 AM #18(09-25-2013, 11:37 AM)OM616 617a pistons are stupid expensive..., so I am really leaning toward using 617a rods and reduce the small end to match the 616 rod and mod the piston skirts for the squirters. This would give me stronger rods and cooler pistons for the lowest cost.I want to say that crazy strong volvo rods can be easily swapped as well.
I do need to confirm that the 616 and 617a rod center to center is the same first....
I am also wondering if the 617a sleeves are made from the same material as the 616 sleeves? The 617a engines seem to go a lot longer with out blow by than the 616 does. This is either a result of better oiling from the squirters, cooler pistons that do not expand as much as the 616 pistons, putting less pressure on the sleeves, or the 617a sleeves have more nickel in them making them harder... I think the aftermarket part numbers are the same, but I am more interested in the MB part numbers for the 617a and 616 sleeves.... Anyone have any idea?
If you're going through the trouble of resizing rods, would you consider buying custom rods? IIRC custom forged turbo ford rods are around $100/ea
No idea on the sleeves
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
09-25-2013, 02:51 PM
#19
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
09-25-2013, 02:51 PM #19Find a good set of used 617 pistons they are much beefier than the originals
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
09-26-2013, 03:39 PM
#20
(09-25-2013, 02:51 PM)willbhere4u Find a good set of used 617 pistons they are much beefier than the originals
I am not worried about the 616 pistons being strong enough, if anything, I like that they would be lighter than the 617a pistons. In a former life I built competition engines so I really can not see using used pistons unless they have less than 100K on them, and only because they can not be found new for less then an arm and a leg. Most of the engines that become donors are totally shot, the skirts are worn out and the ring groves are way out of speck, (results in blow by and ring brakeage).
I have not looked at the actual rod dimensions to see what options I have for better rods. The only reason I am worried about the 616 rods is because they are known to fly out of a stock engine.
If the rings are lower on a turbo piston, that would be a positive, but I am really leaning toward a hybrid made up of a modded 616 piston and modded 617a rod combination. I would use Mahle pistons and rings
.
(09-25-2013, 02:51 PM)willbhere4u Find a good set of used 617 pistons they are much beefier than the originals
I am not worried about the 616 pistons being strong enough, if anything, I like that they would be lighter than the 617a pistons. In a former life I built competition engines so I really can not see using used pistons unless they have less than 100K on them, and only because they can not be found new for less then an arm and a leg. Most of the engines that become donors are totally shot, the skirts are worn out and the ring groves are way out of speck, (results in blow by and ring brakeage).
I have not looked at the actual rod dimensions to see what options I have for better rods. The only reason I am worried about the 616 rods is because they are known to fly out of a stock engine.
If the rings are lower on a turbo piston, that would be a positive, but I am really leaning toward a hybrid made up of a modded 616 piston and modded 617a rod combination. I would use Mahle pistons and rings
.
09-26-2013, 04:00 PM
#21
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
09-26-2013, 04:00 PM #21The turbo pistons are designed to work with the oil squirters.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
09-26-2013, 05:32 PM
#22
(09-26-2013, 04:00 PM)willbhere4u The turbo pistons are designed to work with the oil squirters.
I knooww thaatt LOL...
I can machine the 616 pistons to clear the squirter, the oil will still spray the bottom of the piston and better lubricate the cylinders. I’m sure there are some used pistons out there that are 100% with in speck, and if I can find some id use them, but I don't want to spend the time and money only to put worn out pistons in and have blow buy or a piston / ring failure before I see 150K on the build. It is like buying 60K mile tires with 50K already on them, IMOP...
Really, I would not hesitate to build the engine with out the squirters if it appears to be too much of a risk to install the squirters in the block, but I like the idea of better oiling and cooling.
I also want to see how bad it will be to mod the oil pump to use 617a gears. I am hopeing that all it will take is spacing the lower half of the housing down.
________
On a separate note, I think I am going to eliminate the Torque Control and Max Speed Governor functions from the 10mm pump that I will be building for this engine. I will use a RPM switch to operate a vacuum valve that will put vacuum to the shut off actuator as a rev limiter.
I have been driving my Virgin 300D (617a), and I am always frustrated by how the power is curved off... I modified a RW Governor so all it had was the idle governor for a friend of mine that runs it on a track, it worked very well and was a total blast to drive. It pulled until you lifted your foot. Of course the EGTs will have to be monitored at the top end, but that is standard operating procedure now.
(09-26-2013, 04:00 PM)willbhere4u The turbo pistons are designed to work with the oil squirters.
I knooww thaatt LOL...
I can machine the 616 pistons to clear the squirter, the oil will still spray the bottom of the piston and better lubricate the cylinders. I’m sure there are some used pistons out there that are 100% with in speck, and if I can find some id use them, but I don't want to spend the time and money only to put worn out pistons in and have blow buy or a piston / ring failure before I see 150K on the build. It is like buying 60K mile tires with 50K already on them, IMOP...
Really, I would not hesitate to build the engine with out the squirters if it appears to be too much of a risk to install the squirters in the block, but I like the idea of better oiling and cooling.
I also want to see how bad it will be to mod the oil pump to use 617a gears. I am hopeing that all it will take is spacing the lower half of the housing down.
________
On a separate note, I think I am going to eliminate the Torque Control and Max Speed Governor functions from the 10mm pump that I will be building for this engine. I will use a RPM switch to operate a vacuum valve that will put vacuum to the shut off actuator as a rev limiter.
I have been driving my Virgin 300D (617a), and I am always frustrated by how the power is curved off... I modified a RW Governor so all it had was the idle governor for a friend of mine that runs it on a track, it worked very well and was a total blast to drive. It pulled until you lifted your foot. Of course the EGTs will have to be monitored at the top end, but that is standard operating procedure now.
09-26-2013, 07:34 PM
#23
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
09-26-2013, 07:34 PM #23You should get your pistons coated!
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
09-27-2013, 07:50 AM
#24
(09-26-2013, 07:34 PM)Simpler=Better You should get your pistons coated!
Coatings sound good, but do not hold up in the long term. I have had many, many pistons ceramic and molly coated by different companies and none of them would hold up to 200+K Miles of a diesel engine. It would be nice to get the inside of the prechamber coated, but again, it would eventually de-bond and act as an abrasive as it passed through the engine.
(09-26-2013, 07:34 PM)Simpler=Better You should get your pistons coated!
Coatings sound good, but do not hold up in the long term. I have had many, many pistons ceramic and molly coated by different companies and none of them would hold up to 200+K Miles of a diesel engine. It would be nice to get the inside of the prechamber coated, but again, it would eventually de-bond and act as an abrasive as it passed through the engine.
09-27-2013, 09:15 AM
#25
(09-27-2013, 07:50 AM)OM616(09-26-2013, 07:34 PM)Simpler=Better You should get your pistons coated!
Coatings sound good, but do not hold up in the long term. I have had many, many pistons ceramic and molly coated by different companies and none of them would hold up to 200+K Miles of a diesel engine. It would be nice to get the inside of the prechamber coated, but again, it would eventually de-bond and act as an abrasive as it passed through the engine.
[thread derail]
Glad to get some real-world feedback-I was thinking about getting my PCs coated but might not if it breaks down. Would you say it's worth it to do the PCs?
[/thread derail]
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
09-27-2013, 09:15 AM #25(09-27-2013, 07:50 AM)OM616(09-26-2013, 07:34 PM)Simpler=Better You should get your pistons coated!
Coatings sound good, but do not hold up in the long term. I have had many, many pistons ceramic and molly coated by different companies and none of them would hold up to 200+K Miles of a diesel engine. It would be nice to get the inside of the prechamber coated, but again, it would eventually de-bond and act as an abrasive as it passed through the engine.
[thread derail]
Glad to get some real-world feedback-I was thinking about getting my PCs coated but might not if it breaks down. Would you say it's worth it to do the PCs?
[/thread derail]
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
09-27-2013, 09:15 AM
#26
This post was last modified: 09-27-2013, 09:19 AM by willbhere4u.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
09-27-2013, 09:15 AM #26If I'm not mistaken and I may be its been a few years since I had a 617 apart I think the turbo pistons have an oil port in them so when the piston is in the down position the squirter squirts oil in to the port on the piston and lubricates the rings/skirts
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
09-27-2013, 11:53 AM
#27
(09-27-2013, 09:15 AM)willbhere4u If I'm not mistaken and I may be its been a few years since I had a 617 apart I think the turbo pistons have an oil port in them so when the piston is in the down position the squirter squirts oil in to the port on the piston and lubricates the rings/skirts
I have only seen drawings and a picture of a 617a piston, and I agree that there is a port in the bottom of the piston that the squirter is aimed. It is my understanding that there is hollow area in the dome of the piston, and oil goes from the port side, across the piston, to a port on the other side where it comes out. I am sure it is because of this hollow area that the pistons are so expensive and from a limited source.
I imagine that the oil control rings are open to this cavity, but I have no idea about 1st and 2nd compression rings. I would be surprised if they were though. The 617a engines hold up better then the 616 engines, and without having torn down any to evaluate, I would say that the extra oil flying around in the 617a is a large part of the difference.
(09-27-2013, 09:15 AM)Simpler=Better(09-27-2013, 07:50 AM)OM616(09-26-2013, 07:34 PM)Simpler=Better You should get your pistons coated!
Coatings sound good, but do not hold up in the long term. I have had many, many pistons ceramic and molly coated by different companies and none of them would hold up to 200+K Miles of a diesel engine. It would be nice to get the inside of the prechamber coated, but again, it would eventually de-bond and act as an abrasive as it passed through the engine.
[thread derail]
Glad to get some real-world feedback-I was thinking about getting my PCs coated but might not if it breaks down. Would you say it's worth it to do the PCs?
[/thread derail]
I seriously looked at coating the inside of the PC, but prepping the inner surface properly in the burn tube area for the coating will be difficult, and it will be tuff to check the coating consistency in the tube.
I would be very surprised if any coating would survive the life of the engine given the number of thermal cycles and the incredible shocks that nailing generates as the engine runs, plus erosion from the high speed /pressure gasses passing over edges.
Coatings work well for extreme racing engines that have a relatively short in life compared to the traditional production engine. I have a hard time imagining how many times the crank goes around, the pistons go up and down, and the thermal cycles that take place is 200+K miles of operation. It is hard to expect any coating to survive that.
This post was last modified: 09-27-2013, 12:06 PM by OM616.
(09-27-2013, 09:15 AM)willbhere4u If I'm not mistaken and I may be its been a few years since I had a 617 apart I think the turbo pistons have an oil port in them so when the piston is in the down position the squirter squirts oil in to the port on the piston and lubricates the rings/skirts
I have only seen drawings and a picture of a 617a piston, and I agree that there is a port in the bottom of the piston that the squirter is aimed. It is my understanding that there is hollow area in the dome of the piston, and oil goes from the port side, across the piston, to a port on the other side where it comes out. I am sure it is because of this hollow area that the pistons are so expensive and from a limited source.
I imagine that the oil control rings are open to this cavity, but I have no idea about 1st and 2nd compression rings. I would be surprised if they were though. The 617a engines hold up better then the 616 engines, and without having torn down any to evaluate, I would say that the extra oil flying around in the 617a is a large part of the difference.
(09-27-2013, 09:15 AM)Simpler=Better(09-27-2013, 07:50 AM)OM616(09-26-2013, 07:34 PM)Simpler=Better You should get your pistons coated!
Coatings sound good, but do not hold up in the long term. I have had many, many pistons ceramic and molly coated by different companies and none of them would hold up to 200+K Miles of a diesel engine. It would be nice to get the inside of the prechamber coated, but again, it would eventually de-bond and act as an abrasive as it passed through the engine.
[thread derail]
Glad to get some real-world feedback-I was thinking about getting my PCs coated but might not if it breaks down. Would you say it's worth it to do the PCs?
[/thread derail]
I seriously looked at coating the inside of the PC, but prepping the inner surface properly in the burn tube area for the coating will be difficult, and it will be tuff to check the coating consistency in the tube.
I would be very surprised if any coating would survive the life of the engine given the number of thermal cycles and the incredible shocks that nailing generates as the engine runs, plus erosion from the high speed /pressure gasses passing over edges.
Coatings work well for extreme racing engines that have a relatively short in life compared to the traditional production engine. I have a hard time imagining how many times the crank goes around, the pistons go up and down, and the thermal cycles that take place is 200+K miles of operation. It is hard to expect any coating to survive that.
10-04-2013, 12:21 PM
#29
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
10-04-2013, 12:21 PM #29So what are the differences between the rods, other than being beefier? Are n/a 617 rods the same as 616?
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
10-04-2013, 03:04 PM
#30
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
10-04-2013, 03:04 PM #30I never had any problem with my turbo 240d engine and I wound the crap out of that thing at 10psi of boost. for about 20k before I sold it. and I still see it around.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
10-05-2013, 12:06 PM
#31
(10-04-2013, 03:04 PM)willbhere4u I never had any problem with my turbo 240d engine and I wound the crap out of that thing at 10psi of boost. for about 20k before I sold it. and I still see it around.
I have never had an opportunity to do an autopsy on a 616 that ejected the notorious #1 rod to know the reason for the failure. It could be that during assembly the #1 rod bolts were torqued above or bellow the speck, perhaps there is an oiling issue that is unknown, perhaps the oil pump drive is striping out and the first rod goes first?
From what I have heard, the failure seems to be isolated to #1, so I would tend to think it is not the rod it self, but rather something that the #1 rod experiences at some point, which causes it to fail. It would be nice to know if the rod it self that is breaking, or the bolts, or the small end, or the big end bearing spins??
I have not heard 617a rods departing in nearly as many numbers as the stock 616, so now that I have the opportunity, I would like to upgrade to the stronger rods given that I am running 20 lbs of boost, a lot more fuel, and way more advance than stock.
I have never seen a 616 and 617a rod side by side to know the differences beyond the 617a wrist pin is larger.
(10-04-2013, 03:04 PM)willbhere4u I never had any problem with my turbo 240d engine and I wound the crap out of that thing at 10psi of boost. for about 20k before I sold it. and I still see it around.
I have never had an opportunity to do an autopsy on a 616 that ejected the notorious #1 rod to know the reason for the failure. It could be that during assembly the #1 rod bolts were torqued above or bellow the speck, perhaps there is an oiling issue that is unknown, perhaps the oil pump drive is striping out and the first rod goes first?
From what I have heard, the failure seems to be isolated to #1, so I would tend to think it is not the rod it self, but rather something that the #1 rod experiences at some point, which causes it to fail. It would be nice to know if the rod it self that is breaking, or the bolts, or the small end, or the big end bearing spins??
I have not heard 617a rods departing in nearly as many numbers as the stock 616, so now that I have the opportunity, I would like to upgrade to the stronger rods given that I am running 20 lbs of boost, a lot more fuel, and way more advance than stock.
I have never seen a 616 and 617a rod side by side to know the differences beyond the 617a wrist pin is larger.
10-07-2013, 08:35 PM
#32
By the way the donor car was a '76 w115 so my engine has the old style IP that needs oil changes and is vacuum controlled through intake venturi and throttle body.O yeah and it also had push-pull shut off (which I replaced with a $9.99 power door lock actuator). The chassis is a '90 2.6 version with fairly low final drive ratio which I find works quite well with the engine. I can cruise at 70mph with the engine around 2600RPM. The acceleration sucks but I've learned to live with it. Car gets 30MPG in the city and 35MPG hwy. The old 6 cyl gasser never gave me more than 25. The thing I hate the most about the setup right now is the 616 vibration at idle but after 25k miles since the swap I would never go back.
Some day I will add the turbo to the setup but for now I have more useful and exciting projects on the go.
ponkokanada
10-07-2013, 08:35 PM #32I also have an N/A om616 powered w201. The swap was fairly easy since I kept the original 4sp manual from the donor car. I had to make a new longer propshaft and weld a new mounting bracket for the passenger side engine mount. The driver side mount lined up with the original. The shifter was also a bolt-on thing. There is probably at most 1/2" between my oil pan and the bottom chassis cross member and less than 1/4" between valve cover and the hood: She fits!. My engine also had an oil filter housing down below which cleared the chassis very easily.
By the way the donor car was a '76 w115 so my engine has the old style IP that needs oil changes and is vacuum controlled through intake venturi and throttle body.O yeah and it also had push-pull shut off (which I replaced with a $9.99 power door lock actuator). The chassis is a '90 2.6 version with fairly low final drive ratio which I find works quite well with the engine. I can cruise at 70mph with the engine around 2600RPM. The acceleration sucks but I've learned to live with it. Car gets 30MPG in the city and 35MPG hwy. The old 6 cyl gasser never gave me more than 25. The thing I hate the most about the setup right now is the 616 vibration at idle but after 25k miles since the swap I would never go back.
Some day I will add the turbo to the setup but for now I have more useful and exciting projects on the go.
10-08-2013, 06:26 AM
#33
Cut down a 617 crank/cam
Bolt up a MW pump and feed the extra injector line to the fuel return
Don't lie, it would sound amazeballs
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
10-08-2013, 06:26 AM #33Assuming the mains are the same you could make a loper:
Cut down a 617 crank/cam
Bolt up a MW pump and feed the extra injector line to the fuel return
Don't lie, it would sound amazeballs
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
10-08-2013, 03:04 PM
#34
(10-08-2013, 06:26 AM)Simpler=Better Assuming the mains are the same you could make a loper:
Cut down a 617 crank/cam
Bolt up a MW pump and feed the extra injector line to the fuel return
Don't lie, it would sound amazeballs
I don't think it would really work like that
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
10-08-2013, 03:04 PM #34(10-08-2013, 06:26 AM)Simpler=Better Assuming the mains are the same you could make a loper:
Cut down a 617 crank/cam
Bolt up a MW pump and feed the extra injector line to the fuel return
Don't lie, it would sound amazeballs
I don't think it would really work like that
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
10-10-2013, 10:55 AM
#36
(10-07-2013, 08:35 PM)ponkokanada I also have an N/A om616 powered w201. The swap was fairly easy since I kept the original 4sp manual from the donor car. I had to make a new longer propshaft and weld a new mounting bracket for the passenger side engine mount. The driver side mount lined up with the original. The shifter was also a bolt-on thing. There is probably at most 1/2" between my oil pan and the bottom chassis cross member and less than 1/4" between valve cover and the hood: She fits!. My engine also had an oil filter housing down below which cleared the chassis very easily.
By the way the donor car was a '76 w115 so my engine has the old style IP that needs oil changes and is vacuum controlled through intake venturi and throttle body.O yeah and it also had push-pull shut off (which I replaced with a $9.99 power door lock actuator). The chassis is a '90 2.6 version with fairly low final drive ratio which I find works quite well with the engine. I can cruise at 70mph with the engine around 2600RPM. The acceleration sucks but I've learned to live with it. Car gets 30MPG in the city and 35MPG hwy. The old 6 cyl gasser never gave me more than 25. The thing I hate the most about the setup right now is the 616 vibration at idle but after 25k miles since the swap I would never go back.
Some day I will add the turbo to the setup but for now I have more useful and exciting projects on the go.
Well sense I'm not the only 616 201 on the road, then perhaps I am the only 616 turbo 201 then! lol...
I was pleased how everything came together with mine. I used the 123 engine mounts to keep it as low as possible. I think a 617a would fit but something would have to be done with the sway bar given the oil pan will be more forward with the 617..
I need stronger front springs for sure, how are the 6cylinder front springs working for you?
(10-08-2013, 05:51 PM)ronnie if I only had time.... have a 616 block and 617a could take them apart and see what the rod and piston differances are.
There were a couple of 617a engines in my area that I looked at but I no longer get a response from the guys so I guess they are gone.. It would be nice to find a low mileage veggie motor that has gummed up rings and wont start lol... I looked at one about 3 months ago, but did not have parts in mind at the time
...
This post was last modified: 10-10-2013, 10:59 AM by OM616.
(10-07-2013, 08:35 PM)ponkokanada I also have an N/A om616 powered w201. The swap was fairly easy since I kept the original 4sp manual from the donor car. I had to make a new longer propshaft and weld a new mounting bracket for the passenger side engine mount. The driver side mount lined up with the original. The shifter was also a bolt-on thing. There is probably at most 1/2" between my oil pan and the bottom chassis cross member and less than 1/4" between valve cover and the hood: She fits!. My engine also had an oil filter housing down below which cleared the chassis very easily.
By the way the donor car was a '76 w115 so my engine has the old style IP that needs oil changes and is vacuum controlled through intake venturi and throttle body.O yeah and it also had push-pull shut off (which I replaced with a $9.99 power door lock actuator). The chassis is a '90 2.6 version with fairly low final drive ratio which I find works quite well with the engine. I can cruise at 70mph with the engine around 2600RPM. The acceleration sucks but I've learned to live with it. Car gets 30MPG in the city and 35MPG hwy. The old 6 cyl gasser never gave me more than 25. The thing I hate the most about the setup right now is the 616 vibration at idle but after 25k miles since the swap I would never go back.
Some day I will add the turbo to the setup but for now I have more useful and exciting projects on the go.
Well sense I'm not the only 616 201 on the road, then perhaps I am the only 616 turbo 201 then! lol...
I was pleased how everything came together with mine. I used the 123 engine mounts to keep it as low as possible. I think a 617a would fit but something would have to be done with the sway bar given the oil pan will be more forward with the 617..
I need stronger front springs for sure, how are the 6cylinder front springs working for you?
(10-08-2013, 05:51 PM)ronnie if I only had time.... have a 616 block and 617a could take them apart and see what the rod and piston differances are.
There were a couple of 617a engines in my area that I looked at but I no longer get a response from the guys so I guess they are gone.. It would be nice to find a low mileage veggie motor that has gummed up rings and wont start lol... I looked at one about 3 months ago, but did not have parts in mind at the time
...
10-10-2013, 02:49 PM
#37
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
10-10-2013, 02:49 PM #37So what, no junkyards near any of you guys? I'm considering going to the local one and pull a damn connecting rod and piston from a 616 & 617a just so this thread can move forward lol
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
10-10-2013, 03:23 PM
#38
(10-10-2013, 02:49 PM)sassparilla_kid So what, no junkyards near any of you guys? I'm considering going to the local one and pull a damn connecting rod and piston from a 616 & 617a just so this thread can move forward lol
LOL... it is not a question of any difference in the rods... I have decided to use 617a rods regardless of what pistons I end up using..
Obviously I need 4 good rods, a 617a block to make a drilling jig to machine the 616 block for piston squirters, and the squirter nozzles....
I looked at a couple locally a few months ago, but no response from recent contact...
(10-10-2013, 02:49 PM)sassparilla_kid So what, no junkyards near any of you guys? I'm considering going to the local one and pull a damn connecting rod and piston from a 616 & 617a just so this thread can move forward lol
LOL... it is not a question of any difference in the rods... I have decided to use 617a rods regardless of what pistons I end up using..
Obviously I need 4 good rods, a 617a block to make a drilling jig to machine the 616 block for piston squirters, and the squirter nozzles....
I looked at a couple locally a few months ago, but no response from recent contact...
This post was last modified: 10-10-2013, 03:24 PM by OM616.
(10-10-2013, 02:49 PM)sassparilla_kid So what, no junkyards near any of you guys? I'm considering going to the local one and pull a damn connecting rod and piston from a 616 & 617a just so this thread can move forward lol
LOL... it is not a question of any difference in the rods... I have decided to use 617a rods regardless of what pistons I end up using..
Obviously I need 4 good rods, a 617a block to make a drilling jig to machine the 616 block for piston squirters, and the squirter nozzles....
I looked at a couple locally a few months ago, but no response from recent contact...
(10-10-2013, 02:49 PM)sassparilla_kid So what, no junkyards near any of you guys? I'm considering going to the local one and pull a damn connecting rod and piston from a 616 & 617a just so this thread can move forward lol
LOL... it is not a question of any difference in the rods... I have decided to use 617a rods regardless of what pistons I end up using..
Obviously I need 4 good rods, a 617a block to make a drilling jig to machine the 616 block for piston squirters, and the squirter nozzles....
I looked at a couple locally a few months ago, but no response from recent contact...
10-10-2013, 08:41 PM
#39
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
10-10-2013, 08:41 PM #39Well hopefully you're able to figure it all out, because when I rebuild the engine in my 240 and turbo it I don't want to have to engineer too much lol, although I'm not sure if there's anything I can do to the pump side of it because it's got the old style since its in a w115
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
10-12-2013, 07:24 AM
#40
(10-10-2013, 08:41 PM)sassparilla_kid Well hopefully you're able to figure it all out, because when I rebuild the engine in my 240 and turbo it I don't want to have to engineer too much lol, although I'm not sure if there's anything I can do to the pump side of it because it's got the old style since its in a w115
Why not use a later model pump?
(10-10-2013, 08:41 PM)sassparilla_kid Well hopefully you're able to figure it all out, because when I rebuild the engine in my 240 and turbo it I don't want to have to engineer too much lol, although I'm not sure if there's anything I can do to the pump side of it because it's got the old style since its in a w115
Why not use a later model pump?
10-15-2013, 02:13 PM
#41
(10-12-2013, 07:24 AM)OM616(10-10-2013, 08:41 PM)sassparilla_kid Well hopefully you're able to figure it all out, because when I rebuild the engine in my 240 and turbo it I don't want to have to engineer too much lol, although I'm not sure if there's anything I can do to the pump side of it because it's got the old style since its in a w115
Why not use a later model pump?
Because I hadn't thought of that yet
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
10-15-2013, 02:13 PM #41(10-12-2013, 07:24 AM)OM616(10-10-2013, 08:41 PM)sassparilla_kid Well hopefully you're able to figure it all out, because when I rebuild the engine in my 240 and turbo it I don't want to have to engineer too much lol, although I'm not sure if there's anything I can do to the pump side of it because it's got the old style since its in a w115
Why not use a later model pump?
Because I hadn't thought of that yet
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
10-15-2013, 03:26 PM
#42
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
10-15-2013, 03:26 PM #42If you use the newer pump with the governor you can gut all of the throttle body junk out I had a shop weld the holes for the throttle shafts up.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
10-16-2013, 02:38 PM
#43
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
10-16-2013, 02:38 PM #43Something tells me it might not be as simple as just swapping pumps. I'm not sure but I think they get their oil from different places or something, I know the old style pump has a cap on the top and you're supposed to add oil to it or something??
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
10-17-2013, 09:50 AM
#44
This post was last modified: 10-17-2013, 09:53 AM by willbhere4u.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
10-17-2013, 09:50 AM #44I think the newer pumps have an oil line attached to them if I'm not mistaken and they drain back in to the timing cover. It's been awhile since I messed with them though. If so would need the oil filter housing and lines or at least a feed line.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
10-18-2013, 07:40 PM
#46
(10-18-2013, 05:08 PM)ronnie oil comes through the timing gear shaft into the pump
Only on the M pumps are fed that way.. the MW pumps has a oil feed line from the block to the IP to lube it... All it would take would be a line with a restrictor, from the oil pressure fitting to the MW IP...
10-19-2013, 11:08 AM
#47
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
10-19-2013, 11:08 AM #47I think the old style might get oil via a line as well, although the oil in the pump gets changed separately for whatever reason
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
10-20-2013, 01:46 PM
#48
http://socalmercedesparts.com/
sorry forgot to paste the link earlier lol
This post was last modified: 10-20-2013, 08:23 PM by sassparilla_kid.
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
10-20-2013, 01:46 PM #48Hey om616 maybe these guys can help you find a turbo piston for comparison
http://socalmercedesparts.com/
sorry forgot to paste the link earlier lol
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
10-21-2013, 01:25 PM
#49
(10-20-2013, 01:46 PM)sassparilla_kid Hey om616 maybe these guys can help you find a turbo piston for comparison
http://socalmercedesparts.com/
sorry forgot to paste the link earlier lol
Thanks.. Ill try them..
The pistons can be had with out any trouble... They just cost $500+ ea! lol
I won't hesitate to use new 616 pistons and mod the skirt for the nozzles if I can't find any turbo ones for a reasonable cost or in good shape..
(10-20-2013, 01:46 PM)sassparilla_kid Hey om616 maybe these guys can help you find a turbo piston for comparison
http://socalmercedesparts.com/
sorry forgot to paste the link earlier lol
Thanks.. Ill try them..
The pistons can be had with out any trouble... They just cost $500+ ea! lol
I won't hesitate to use new 616 pistons and mod the skirt for the nozzles if I can't find any turbo ones for a reasonable cost or in good shape..
10-21-2013, 03:22 PM
#50
(10-21-2013, 01:25 PM)OM616(10-20-2013, 01:46 PM)sassparilla_kid Hey om616 maybe these guys can help you find a turbo piston for comparison
http://socalmercedesparts.com/
sorry forgot to paste the link earlier lol
Thanks.. Ill try them..
The pistons can be had with out any trouble... They just cost $500+ ea! lol
I won't hesitate to use new 616 pistons and mod the skirt for the nozzles if I can't find any turbo ones for a reasonable cost or in good shape..
So you really can't get custom pistons for less? I would have sworn guys were getting $100 pistons for turbo fords
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
10-21-2013, 03:22 PM #50(10-21-2013, 01:25 PM)OM616(10-20-2013, 01:46 PM)sassparilla_kid Hey om616 maybe these guys can help you find a turbo piston for comparison
http://socalmercedesparts.com/
sorry forgot to paste the link earlier lol
Thanks.. Ill try them..
The pistons can be had with out any trouble... They just cost $500+ ea! lol
I won't hesitate to use new 616 pistons and mod the skirt for the nozzles if I can't find any turbo ones for a reasonable cost or in good shape..
So you really can't get custom pistons for less? I would have sworn guys were getting $100 pistons for turbo fords
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
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