SLS Removal Thread
SLS Removal Thread
Having driven for some time on this setup, it has settled out nicely and drives quite well. I think it might be good to try to stiffen up the fronts a little to compensate, but that's a whole different animal... Nowhere near as predictable effects as messing with rear suspension, and I have no experience with that sort of thing.
As for the longevity of the shock absorbers in this compressed mounting configuration, there seems to be no ill effects from bottoming the suspension repeatedly, and hard (VT frost heaves at Vmax all winter).
I have some doubts as to the ride quality with the stock swaybar, though. I have a thicker rear swaybar in my TD (last one in the world, apparently
), and the combined effect of the thicker swaybar, stiffer rear springs, and 8x16s with 225/55 r16 tires cured a few flaws, but the understeer is still there, albeit muted. At least I can get the back to kick out when I want it now...EDIT: Stiffer front springs and bar would do great things for the body roll as well. Are there special considerations to be taken into account in building front suspension? Are there good hard & fast rules for predicting what messing with the front suspension will do to handling characteristics?
GREASY_BEAST
07-18-2010, 10:11 PM #101Quick update:
Having driven for some time on this setup, it has settled out nicely and drives quite well. I think it might be good to try to stiffen up the fronts a little to compensate, but that's a whole different animal... Nowhere near as predictable effects as messing with rear suspension, and I have no experience with that sort of thing.
As for the longevity of the shock absorbers in this compressed mounting configuration, there seems to be no ill effects from bottoming the suspension repeatedly, and hard (VT frost heaves at Vmax all winter).
I have some doubts as to the ride quality with the stock swaybar, though. I have a thicker rear swaybar in my TD (last one in the world, apparently ), and the combined effect of the thicker swaybar, stiffer rear springs, and 8x16s with 225/55 r16 tires cured a few flaws, but the understeer is still there, albeit muted. At least I can get the back to kick out when I want it now...
EDIT: Stiffer front springs and bar would do great things for the body roll as well. Are there special considerations to be taken into account in building front suspension? Are there good hard & fast rules for predicting what messing with the front suspension will do to handling characteristics?
Cutting the springs will increase the stiffness so using a spring from a heavier engine (S600?) and cutting it to the appropriate ride height. Also using a stiffer dampener. A bigger front sway bar without compensating in the rear will result in more under-steer. Shock/Strut tower braces or re-enforcement may be required.
(07-19-2010, 12:32 AM)Kozuka Cutting the springs will increase the stiffness
how?
So would it be a good idea to install stiffer front springs and keep the stock swaybar? That way the body won't roll as badly but the front bar will allow the front wheels to not slide for longer? I can't imagine its that black-and-white...
GREASY_BEAST
07-19-2010, 12:16 PM #103(07-19-2010, 12:32 AM)Kozuka Cutting the springs will increase the stiffness
how?
So would it be a good idea to install stiffer front springs and keep the stock swaybar? That way the body won't roll as badly but the front bar will allow the front wheels to not slide for longer? I can't imagine its that black-and-white...
(07-19-2010, 01:45 PM)Kozuka http://www.eatonsprings.com/atqCuttingCo...ations.htm
Wow, that's really cool.
GREASY_BEAST
07-19-2010, 03:01 PM #105(07-19-2010, 01:45 PM)Kozuka http://www.eatonsprings.com/atqCuttingCo...ations.htm
Wow, that's really cool.
(07-19-2010, 03:01 PM)GREASY_BEAST(07-19-2010, 01:45 PM)Kozuka http://www.eatonsprings.com/atqCuttingCo...ations.htm
Wow, that's really cool.
Think of sway-bars like this, they prevent the independent suspension from 'flexing' by limiting the maximum difference between the two wheels. By doing this to the front the tires will be too limited and grip creating under-steer. By doing this to the rear you make sure that the rear plants the tires strait which combined with power will cause a loss of traction equals oversteer. In my opinion the front suspensions wagon bar shouldn't be messed with until you try tightening up the springs and dampeners in the front.
There are other tricks like messing with the camber, making the rear softer, weight distribution, and lots of other things that can make one of these old benz a drift machine if you want.
(07-19-2010, 03:01 PM)GREASY_BEAST(07-19-2010, 01:45 PM)Kozuka http://www.eatonsprings.com/atqCuttingCo...ations.htm
Wow, that's really cool.
Think of sway-bars like this, they prevent the independent suspension from 'flexing' by limiting the maximum difference between the two wheels. By doing this to the front the tires will be too limited and grip creating under-steer. By doing this to the rear you make sure that the rear plants the tires strait which combined with power will cause a loss of traction equals oversteer. In my opinion the front suspensions wagon bar shouldn't be messed with until you try tightening up the springs and dampeners in the front.
There are other tricks like messing with the camber, making the rear softer, weight distribution, and lots of other things that can make one of these old benz a drift machine if you want.
(07-19-2010, 06:10 PM)Kozuka There are other tricks like messing with the camber, making the rear softer, weight distribution, and lots of other things that can make one of these old benz a drift machine if you want.
Doesn't have to be a drift machine, but its a little disconcerting to be plowing towards the guardrail with the wheel at full lock and your foot planted praying that the turbo will spool...
GREASY_BEAST
07-19-2010, 10:14 PM #107(07-19-2010, 06:10 PM)Kozuka There are other tricks like messing with the camber, making the rear softer, weight distribution, and lots of other things that can make one of these old benz a drift machine if you want.
Doesn't have to be a drift machine, but its a little disconcerting to be plowing towards the guardrail with the wheel at full lock and your foot planted praying that the turbo will spool...
(02-13-2010, 11:07 AM)dropnosky(12-28-2009, 10:18 AM)Rich G
Since one side of my car is sagging badly making it unstable in winter I could not wait that long and [b]have ordered a set from
propigskin at aol.com who uses a Moog spring - not sure if he modifies them - also he states that no shims are used. I will report on that install as soon as its done. Would of rather gone with the Lesjofors but gotta get it done ASAP due to winter
Did you install these yet? How did it turn out?
Update 8.2.2010 from Rich G:
Installation:
I removed the rubber hose on the "bottom" end of the spring due to concerns about spring fitting into the receptacle on the swing arm- should not of done that - I now get a nasty sounding noise when cornering hard
I used the small 9mm rubber shims on top - ride height is perfect
BTW I used 3 continuous (no hooks) cargo straps to compress and un-compress springs. Any 1 strap is rated for spring load so I believe there is a good safety margin. Take your time and compress each one a little bit in turn. When de-compressing you have to "sacrifice" the last strap by cutting it since it will be wedged around rubber shim. After cutting and removing I tied it with a good knot and reused it as the sacrifice strap on the next spring.
INstallation: Shock top clearance - since this is on a 300td wagon there is a problem with the tops of the shocks interfering with the carpeted cover plate. I ground the top of the locking nut and shock rod after tightening and carpeted cover plate fits perfectly. May be impossible to remove & re-install shock if that ever is necessary.
BTW - Had a very hard time removing carpeted cover plate (Its the 6" or so carpeted strip behind the rear seat) After 25 years the paint on both the frame and bottom of carpeted cover plate were glued together very well - kept looking for hidden screws holding it :-). There are 2 screws on top in the carpet and 3? behind rear seat. I also had to remove side panels and rear seat back to get my cover plate off. Your mileage may vary.
Results:
*Ride height is perfect
*Ride is nice -may be slightly? firmer than stock but certainly not harsh
*Nasty cornering noise - due I believe to my removing "hose" on lower end of spring and the fact that Moog spring is an incorrect spring type - spring is not "bent flat" on bottom as is stock spring.
*Does not sag with moderate load - or light trailering
*Have not loaded it up yet with (5) 200lb people and luggage - suspect it will be good
Conclusion - Moog springs will work - probably very well if correctly installed but I'd use the Lesjofors - They are available from Union @ $89 + shipping. 518 885 6003. "unionforeign at msn.com" Email may not always get through spam filter. Your local parts dealer may be able to get them too so you can save on shipping. Supposed to be a lot in stock @ IMC
Hope this helps - sorry it took so long to reply
(07-11-2010, 09:52 AM)85-300Dt Wondered what happened to this interesting thread, good to see it back. Ended up stumbling on a peach thread where someone is selling (been awhile now) a custom wound spring for as I recall ~ a coupla hundred bucks, when I find it i'll post it, can't say i've heard mention of it here, did I miss it?
in the meantime ..other spring stuff
http://(use the actual website address).com/2c34mf8
http://(use the actual website address).com/26rkfaz
http://(use the actual website address).com/28pqkc5
http://picasaweb.google.com/franklynb0/T...jectPhotos#
EDIT - here's what i was after
http://(use the actual website address).com/2b5npck
Ummm could you give a hint as to what the "Use the acutal website" is ?
Thank you
(02-13-2010, 11:07 AM)dropnosky(12-28-2009, 10:18 AM)Rich G
Since one side of my car is sagging badly making it unstable in winter I could not wait that long and [b]have ordered a set from
propigskin at aol.com who uses a Moog spring - not sure if he modifies them - also he states that no shims are used. I will report on that install as soon as its done. Would of rather gone with the Lesjofors but gotta get it done ASAP due to winter
Did you install these yet? How did it turn out?
Update 8.2.2010 from Rich G:
Installation:
I removed the rubber hose on the "bottom" end of the spring due to concerns about spring fitting into the receptacle on the swing arm- should not of done that - I now get a nasty sounding noise when cornering hard
I used the small 9mm rubber shims on top - ride height is perfect
BTW I used 3 continuous (no hooks) cargo straps to compress and un-compress springs. Any 1 strap is rated for spring load so I believe there is a good safety margin. Take your time and compress each one a little bit in turn. When de-compressing you have to "sacrifice" the last strap by cutting it since it will be wedged around rubber shim. After cutting and removing I tied it with a good knot and reused it as the sacrifice strap on the next spring.
INstallation: Shock top clearance - since this is on a 300td wagon there is a problem with the tops of the shocks interfering with the carpeted cover plate. I ground the top of the locking nut and shock rod after tightening and carpeted cover plate fits perfectly. May be impossible to remove & re-install shock if that ever is necessary.
BTW - Had a very hard time removing carpeted cover plate (Its the 6" or so carpeted strip behind the rear seat) After 25 years the paint on both the frame and bottom of carpeted cover plate were glued together very well - kept looking for hidden screws holding it :-). There are 2 screws on top in the carpet and 3? behind rear seat. I also had to remove side panels and rear seat back to get my cover plate off. Your mileage may vary.
Results:
*Ride height is perfect
*Ride is nice -may be slightly? firmer than stock but certainly not harsh
*Nasty cornering noise - due I believe to my removing "hose" on lower end of spring and the fact that Moog spring is an incorrect spring type - spring is not "bent flat" on bottom as is stock spring.
*Does not sag with moderate load - or light trailering
*Have not loaded it up yet with (5) 200lb people and luggage - suspect it will be good
Conclusion - Moog springs will work - probably very well if correctly installed but I'd use the Lesjofors - They are available from Union @ $89 + shipping. 518 885 6003. "unionforeign at msn.com" Email may not always get through spam filter. Your local parts dealer may be able to get them too so you can save on shipping. Supposed to be a lot in stock @ IMC
Hope this helps - sorry it took so long to reply
(07-11-2010, 09:52 AM)85-300Dt Wondered what happened to this interesting thread, good to see it back. Ended up stumbling on a peach thread where someone is selling (been awhile now) a custom wound spring for as I recall ~ a coupla hundred bucks, when I find it i'll post it, can't say i've heard mention of it here, did I miss it?
in the meantime ..other spring stuff
http://(use the actual website address).com/2c34mf8
http://(use the actual website address).com/26rkfaz
http://(use the actual website address).com/28pqkc5
http://picasaweb.google.com/franklynb0/T...jectPhotos#
EDIT - here's what i was after
http://(use the actual website address).com/2b5npck
Ummm could you give a hint as to what the "Use the acutal website" is ?
Thank you
[/quote]
I totally agree!
A second hand shock won't kill your funds.
In my opinion are the accumulators the parts that wear out over time and use. Aftermarket accumulators are equal quality, less pricey then OEM. Shocks don't last when using wrong oil, otherwise there good for decades to go. As far as I can tell there aren't any shock/spring combinations available that provide anything close to the stock set up.
I have never seen anybody happy after removing the SLS.
[/quote]
I totally agree!
A second hand shock won't kill your funds.
In my opinion are the accumulators the parts that wear out over time and use. Aftermarket accumulators are equal quality, less pricey then OEM. Shocks don't last when using wrong oil, otherwise there good for decades to go. As far as I can tell there aren't any shock/spring combinations available that provide anything close to the stock set up.
(08-03-2010, 03:24 AM)plurkje As far as I can tell there aren't any shock/spring combinations available that provide anything close to the stock set up.
Especially if you put anything in the back. There is just too much overhang weight with the added metal/glass and relocated fuel tank for normal springs to compensate.
ForcedInduction
08-03-2010, 06:22 AM
#111
(08-03-2010, 03:24 AM)plurkje As far as I can tell there aren't any shock/spring combinations available that provide anything close to the stock set up.
Especially if you put anything in the back. There is just too much overhang weight with the added metal/glass and relocated fuel tank for normal springs to compensate.
(08-02-2010, 11:36 AM)Rich G I removed the rubber hose on the "bottom" end of the spring due to concerns about spring fitting into the receptacle on the swing arm-
Moog spring is an incorrect spring type - spring is not "bent flat" on bottom as is stock spring.
The rubber part is on the bottom of the spring? I thought that was the top, I guess it does not matter. What about grinding the end of the spring down flatter so it sits like the end of a normal spring?
What shocks did you use? I bought HD sedan shocks, but I have not test fitted them to see if they work in the application
do you have part numbers on the type of spring shim you used? was it just the wagon spring shim?
(08-19-2009, 04:04 PM)GREASY_BEAST(08-19-2009, 07:41 AM)Floridacyclist Can we get a parts list please? Payday's coming.
I still plan to upgrade the whole car, but that's going to wait till next year after our trip to Southern Europe. After than, I will probably be looking for a decent older G-wagen diesel.
The parts list is simply thus:
(2) Lesjofors p/n 42 568 69
(2) 300D 9.5mm rear spring shims
(2) 300D Bilstein HD shock absorbers
(1) Klann spring compressor (or a clone thereof)
(1) Factory Shop Manual CD
You had no problem with the 300D shocks and spring shims? I ordered 300D shims and discovered that they were too small in diameter. I have different springs, the propigskin moogs, but they are almost the same size as the stock 300TD springs in diameter.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
(08-02-2010, 11:36 AM)Rich G I removed the rubber hose on the "bottom" end of the spring due to concerns about spring fitting into the receptacle on the swing arm-
Moog spring is an incorrect spring type - spring is not "bent flat" on bottom as is stock spring.
The rubber part is on the bottom of the spring? I thought that was the top, I guess it does not matter. What about grinding the end of the spring down flatter so it sits like the end of a normal spring?
What shocks did you use? I bought HD sedan shocks, but I have not test fitted them to see if they work in the application
do you have part numbers on the type of spring shim you used? was it just the wagon spring shim?
(08-19-2009, 04:04 PM)GREASY_BEAST(08-19-2009, 07:41 AM)Floridacyclist Can we get a parts list please? Payday's coming.
I still plan to upgrade the whole car, but that's going to wait till next year after our trip to Southern Europe. After than, I will probably be looking for a decent older G-wagen diesel.
The parts list is simply thus:
(2) Lesjofors p/n 42 568 69
(2) 300D 9.5mm rear spring shims
(2) 300D Bilstein HD shock absorbers
(1) Klann spring compressor (or a clone thereof)
(1) Factory Shop Manual CD
You had no problem with the 300D shocks and spring shims? I ordered 300D shims and discovered that they were too small in diameter. I have different springs, the propigskin moogs, but they are almost the same size as the stock 300TD springs in diameter.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
GREASY_BEAST
08-09-2010, 01:52 PM #113Grinding the springs would not be the same. The Lesjofors springs are forged flat on the last turn or so... The Lesjofors springs worked with all the parts I listed previously. That is, all the parts in that list work together. I have no idea what the Moog springs' dimensions are..
propigskinSLS
11-28-2010, 07:55 AM #114I hope everyone is enjoying my sls conversion springs. if anyone has any questions, contact me at propigskin@aol.com or on the forum...
"Unfortunately on this occasion we are unable to help with the supply
of any of the parts you have requested."
They "just do not stock the Lesjofors springs".... wonder what happened there?
I'm trying to confirm the W116 spring option.
Does anyone know the part number of the spring that (I'm told) fits?
I'm guessing A 116 324 08 04? These are heavy duty : 5.5 x 5.5 x 15" (139.7mm x 381mm)
Or A 116 324 11 04? 5 x 5 x 14" ( 127mm x 355.6mm) >> this sounds closer to W140 specs
Use with 300D HD Bilsteins + thickest shim.
A guy over at Peachparts has done this with great success but still waiting on reply/details.
And before you all start warning me not to mess with my SLS, the car came SLS-less, has an engine from a 300CD so would need a head transplant, and is not a keeper...
Thanks and Happy New Year from Australia!
Just had a reply from GSF:
"Unfortunately on this occasion we are unable to help with the supply
of any of the parts you have requested."
They "just do not stock the Lesjofors springs".... wonder what happened there?
I'm trying to confirm the W116 spring option.
Does anyone know the part number of the spring that (I'm told) fits?
I'm guessing A 116 324 08 04? These are heavy duty : 5.5 x 5.5 x 15" (139.7mm x 381mm)
Or A 116 324 11 04? 5 x 5 x 14" ( 127mm x 355.6mm) >> this sounds closer to W140 specs
Use with 300D HD Bilsteins + thickest shim.
A guy over at Peachparts has done this with great success but still waiting on reply/details.
And before you all start warning me not to mess with my SLS, the car came SLS-less, has an engine from a 300CD so would need a head transplant, and is not a keeper...
Thanks and Happy New Year from Australia!
300TD rear springs are 6 x 6 x 16", I believe.
Standard W116/W126 rear springs are 5 x 5 x 14"? (These were used in M.Source kit)
HD W116/W126 (300SD) rear springs are 5.5 x 5.5 x 15".
Should I go with the HD springs? Which shims?
Everyone still on holidays?
300TD rear springs are 6 x 6 x 16", I believe.
Standard W116/W126 rear springs are 5 x 5 x 14"? (These were used in M.Source kit)
HD W116/W126 (300SD) rear springs are 5.5 x 5.5 x 15".
Should I go with the HD springs? Which shims?
(07-18-2010, 10:11 PM)GREASY_BEAST Having driven for some time on this setup, it has settled out nicely and drives quite well.
I agree.... it is like night and day compared to when I first got this beast... I dont push it too hard all that often, but itll take most turns almost as fast as I push in my other cars... certainly about 30 mph faster than the soggy stock springs... plus the ability to carry a trunk full of tools helps a ton as well...
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
02-19-2011, 01:43 AM #119(07-18-2010, 10:11 PM)GREASY_BEAST Having driven for some time on this setup, it has settled out nicely and drives quite well.
I agree.... it is like night and day compared to when I first got this beast... I dont push it too hard all that often, but itll take most turns almost as fast as I push in my other cars... certainly about 30 mph faster than the soggy stock springs... plus the ability to carry a trunk full of tools helps a ton as well...
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
(02-19-2011, 01:43 AM)SurfRodder(07-18-2010, 10:11 PM)GREASY_BEAST Having driven for some time on this setup, it has settled out nicely and drives quite well.
I agree.... it is like night and day compared to when I first got this beast... I dont push it too hard all that often, but itll take most turns almost as fast as I push in my other cars... certainly about 30 mph faster than the soggy stock springs... plus the ability to carry a trunk full of tools helps a ton as well...
propigskinSLS
02-20-2011, 04:54 AM #120Glad to see you are happy with the springs! Mind posting a few photos? I'd like to get a few more for my site if you don't mind
(02-19-2011, 01:43 AM)SurfRodder(07-18-2010, 10:11 PM)GREASY_BEAST Having driven for some time on this setup, it has settled out nicely and drives quite well.
I agree.... it is like night and day compared to when I first got this beast... I dont push it too hard all that often, but itll take most turns almost as fast as I push in my other cars... certainly about 30 mph faster than the soggy stock springs... plus the ability to carry a trunk full of tools helps a ton as well...
The reason I'm asking is that I'm contemplating of getting springs custom made.
GREASY_BEAST, regarding your post #18, could you, please, type specifications for both front and rear (on 300D and 300TD), standard and HD, springs? Or point me to where I can find those pecs? I wasn't able to find those specs anywhere.
The reason I'm asking is that I'm contemplating of getting springs custom made.
So is there any current sources for the Lesjofors springs? It seems this thread is dated, and it seems like these springs are the ticket for my ladys 300td.
turbodrabbit
04-28-2011, 11:07 PM #122Hey All,
So is there any current sources for the Lesjofors springs? It seems this thread is dated, and it seems like these springs are the ticket for my ladys 300td.
Good luck!
Erik
propigskin@aol.com
www.slsconversion.com
propigskinSLS
06-08-2011, 08:58 AM #125There is no part number for a moog spring as there has never been a SLS delete spring made by a major spring company. Only options are spend the big bucks to repair the SLS system, use 300d sedan springs (weak+bottoms out), Euro Spring options, or use my custom heavy duty sls conversion spring at @ 225 shipped.
Good luck!
Erik
propigskin@aol.com
www.slsconversion.com
http://www.carpartsdiscount.com/auto/par...593=269299
'98 E300 Turbo "Juliette" - Brabus wheels and almost all the options a w210 could have
2007 Chevy 2500HD CCSB Duramax with about 400-500 rwhp depending on the tune I use
1983 300D Silver Exterior/Black inside - Sold and will be missed, may we never meet in a PnP.
I know this is an older thread... but lookie what I found... $96 each... and I happen to need springs
http://www.carpartsdiscount.com/auto/par...593=269299
'98 E300 Turbo "Juliette" - Brabus wheels and almost all the options a w210 could have
2007 Chevy 2500HD CCSB Duramax with about 400-500 rwhp depending on the tune I use
1983 300D Silver Exterior/Black inside - Sold and will be missed, may we never meet in a PnP.
for sale via my site at SLSCONVERSION.COM
Priced lower than the competition at $29.99 shipped!
Or purchase with my SLS conversion kit and pay only @25.00 with free shipping...
any questions, propigskin@aol.com
propigskinSLS
09-23-2011, 10:22 PM #127I now have custom made in the USA SLS pump block off plates (complete with bolts and silicone).
for sale via my site at SLSCONVERSION.COM
Priced lower than the competition at $29.99 shipped!
Or purchase with my SLS conversion kit and pay only @25.00 with free shipping...
any questions, propigskin@aol.com
I'm about to attempt this GREASY_BEAST conversion for myself on an '83 300TD. I have all the parts now except the shocks. There seem to be a few too many options for rear 300D HD Bilsteins. I can find:
W0133-1910783 - B4 HD 24-007146
W0133-1614927 - B6 HD?
W0133-1612941 - harder B6 than 927
GREASY_BEAST, do you have a part number of the shocks you used? Like you I want to carry some heavy loads in the back and need something that'll keep it controlled.
Newbie bumping an old thread!
I'm about to attempt this GREASY_BEAST conversion for myself on an '83 300TD. I have all the parts now except the shocks. There seem to be a few too many options for rear 300D HD Bilsteins. I can find:
W0133-1910783 - B4 HD 24-007146
W0133-1614927 - B6 HD?
W0133-1612941 - harder B6 than 927
GREASY_BEAST, do you have a part number of the shocks you used? Like you I want to carry some heavy loads in the back and need something that'll keep it controlled.
1983 300TD : 4 Speed : SLS Delete : More. Daily Deathcab
1987 190E/16v/OM603 : 5 Speed : SLS Delete : Lots More..W201 Project
I'm using monroe's that came with Progskin's SLS Delete Kit. I can load all my tools, honda engines, you name it drive around all day with no problems. I don't think you'll have any problems with any of the billie options. If I we're going to throw down though I would find some of those Koni Special D's with the adjustable dampening or the hardest billie HD's I could find.
1983 300TD : 4 Speed : SLS Delete : More. Daily Deathcab
1987 190E/16v/OM603 : 5 Speed : SLS Delete : Lots More..W201 Project
I once put aftermarket leaf springs into an old Land Rover and had to drive around with concrete slabs in the back. Not something I wish to repeat
Nice one, Kozuka - thanks! My main concern is whether the combination of hard springs with super hard shocks is going to make the unladen ride way too stiff. I know it's all a big compromise, but i want to try to find the happy medium somewhere. Do you have a part number for the Monroe's you have?
I once put aftermarket leaf springs into an old Land Rover and had to drive around with concrete slabs in the back. Not something I wish to repeat
1983 300TD : 4 Speed : SLS Delete : More. Daily Deathcab
1987 190E/16v/OM603 : 5 Speed : SLS Delete : Lots More..W201 Project
I'm sure the hardest valving in the HD's isn't that hard now if they we're some sports that would be different and they will be shorter. The spring rate isn't bad, it has a nice little give, but it is not a hard ride at all.. But defiantly not like a big wofty tuna boat its a good compromise. Rockauto has them for $30ea.
1983 300TD : 4 Speed : SLS Delete : More. Daily Deathcab
1987 190E/16v/OM603 : 5 Speed : SLS Delete : Lots More..W201 Project
If anyone with a 300D or other w123 sedan wants to install my 300TD springs as a test if you want HD springs in a sedan , please email me at propigskin@aol.com. With a review and pics, I will give you a nice refund to try it out :-)
propigskinSLS
07-13-2012, 03:29 AM #132Thanks for the good words K. Glad you are happy with my kit :-)
If anyone with a 300D or other w123 sedan wants to install my 300TD springs as a test if you want HD springs in a sedan , please email me at propigskin@aol.com. With a review and pics, I will give you a nice refund to try it out :-)
Going into this, I was concerned about a couple of details - mainly that the springs might be too hard - they're seriously beefy - and two that the deflection of the hooks that GREASY_BEAST described might be a safety issue. I did actually take the car in to get the hooks strengthened and after a lot of head shaking from a willing fabricator, I decided to risk it.
Now that I've had it slightly loaded (100lb of tools) and empty, all I can say is WOW. This is *exactly* what I wanted. The car feels really tight at the back and even with no load and low on fuel, it really doesn't feel harsh - firm, yes - but not unpleasant. Add a little weight and rather than creaking and groaning round the corners and bottoming out on San Francisco's terrible roads, it rides with real control. It corners better, it looks level, the shocks seem up to the job (at least with a small load). I'm SO happy. Honestly, wagon owners out there, if you're looking for a great compromise, this has to be it.
The hooks didn't deflect noticeably and there's no rust on the car, so I'm pretty happy that it's safe. What a great community that I found all this helpful information that someone else took the time and effort to research!
I attach a picture so you can see the level with no load and low fuel. It'll probably settle slightly, but as you can see, it's pretty good.
So I fitted this conversion (the Lesjofors GREASY_BEAST one, not the propigskin one) a couple days ago and just wanted to report back. It turns out I already had the Billstein HD B46-0714 installed and they're still good, so no need for new shocks.
Going into this, I was concerned about a couple of details - mainly that the springs might be too hard - they're seriously beefy - and two that the deflection of the hooks that GREASY_BEAST described might be a safety issue. I did actually take the car in to get the hooks strengthened and after a lot of head shaking from a willing fabricator, I decided to risk it.
Now that I've had it slightly loaded (100lb of tools) and empty, all I can say is WOW. This is *exactly* what I wanted. The car feels really tight at the back and even with no load and low on fuel, it really doesn't feel harsh - firm, yes - but not unpleasant. Add a little weight and rather than creaking and groaning round the corners and bottoming out on San Francisco's terrible roads, it rides with real control. It corners better, it looks level, the shocks seem up to the job (at least with a small load). I'm SO happy. Honestly, wagon owners out there, if you're looking for a great compromise, this has to be it.
The hooks didn't deflect noticeably and there's no rust on the car, so I'm pretty happy that it's safe. What a great community that I found all this helpful information that someone else took the time and effort to research!
I attach a picture so you can see the level with no load and low fuel. It'll probably settle slightly, but as you can see, it's pretty good.
I just drove 3000 miles up and down the West Coast with 5 passengers, 4 suitcases on the roof and the back loaded with wine, luggage etc. This is why I installed these springs, to be able to load the car up to the rafters and still get a good ride. If anything I am even more happy than I was when I first installed them. They coped admirably with that much weight, while still giving a decent ride when there's nothing in it. They've settled down slightly since the photo above.
The installation was easier for me as someone had already done the heavy lifting of taking the hydraulics out, but the rented spring compressor from O'Reillys worked fine.
Ben
We got "Griswald Family Truckster" from at least one garage, which I was very proud of
I'll happily give you any advice or tips on the Lesjofors conversion.
I just drove 3000 miles up and down the West Coast with 5 passengers, 4 suitcases on the roof and the back loaded with wine, luggage etc. This is why I installed these springs, to be able to load the car up to the rafters and still get a good ride. If anything I am even more happy than I was when I first installed them. They coped admirably with that much weight, while still giving a decent ride when there's nothing in it. They've settled down slightly since the photo above.
The installation was easier for me as someone had already done the heavy lifting of taking the hydraulics out, but the rented spring compressor from O'Reillys worked fine.
Ben
We got "Griswald Family Truckster" from at least one garage, which I was very proud of
(09-08-2012, 10:16 PM)zacharias Anyone have any updates on their SLS conversion installs (either the Lesjofors or PP kit)?
I've got a couple of years on mine now... I installed them right after Greasy reported the part numbers and contact info for the place in Britain?!?....wherever that we originally got them from. Anyway, still going strong! I keep the trunk heavily loaded most of the time and it still sits perfect...just a slight rake with the 50mm drop springs up front... And, when I unload the ass end, it still feels nice and stable at all speeds...and sits the same...great setup! There are several interchanges/freeway offramps, etc that have recommended speeds of </=35 mph that I regularly take at 60+... thats almost as good as my 3000GT was (more like 75 in that thing, but far better balanced overall + AWD/AWS and TEIN coilovers all around) and certainly LIGHTYEARS ahead of the stock MB setup..at least after 30 years of getting beat on...
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
11-20-2012, 02:07 AM #136(09-08-2012, 10:16 PM)zacharias Anyone have any updates on their SLS conversion installs (either the Lesjofors or PP kit)?
I've got a couple of years on mine now... I installed them right after Greasy reported the part numbers and contact info for the place in Britain?!?....wherever that we originally got them from. Anyway, still going strong! I keep the trunk heavily loaded most of the time and it still sits perfect...just a slight rake with the 50mm drop springs up front... And, when I unload the ass end, it still feels nice and stable at all speeds...and sits the same...great setup! There are several interchanges/freeway offramps, etc that have recommended speeds of </=35 mph that I regularly take at 60+... thats almost as good as my 3000GT was (more like 75 in that thing, but far better balanced overall + AWD/AWS and TEIN coilovers all around) and certainly LIGHTYEARS ahead of the stock MB setup..at least after 30 years of getting beat on...
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
I just bought an 85 wagon and the SLS is already pissing me off, plus everything about it is rusty rusty rusty.
Since the last posts of this thread, I notice that propigskin has updated his product list a bit to make a whole bolt on kit for about 3 hundred and change. At that price for everything, including the block off plate, I think im going to go with him vs assembling the parts.
Any recent reviews on the propigskin stuff?
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
time to revive this thread again.
I just bought an 85 wagon and the SLS is already pissing me off, plus everything about it is rusty rusty rusty.
Since the last posts of this thread, I notice that propigskin has updated his product list a bit to make a whole bolt on kit for about 3 hundred and change. At that price for everything, including the block off plate, I think im going to go with him vs assembling the parts.
Any recent reviews on the propigskin stuff?
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
If anyone is doing a conversion, send me the unused SLS bits! I'm trying to get this beast on the road and there's never a TD in the yards.
1983 300TD
1984 300D
1995 E300 (sold)
I'll post this on the FS section, but the wagon I bought was missing the HP line and a few other SLS bits.
If anyone is doing a conversion, send me the unused SLS bits! I'm trying to get this beast on the road and there's never a TD in the yards.
1983 300TD
1984 300D
1995 E300 (sold)
(10-15-2013, 10:09 AM)martureo I'll post this on the FS section, but the wagon I bought was missing the HP line and a few other SLS bits.
If anyone is doing a conversion, send me the unused SLS bits! I'm trying to get this beast on the road and there's never a TD in the yards.
I have a pump, reservoir and the HP lines are still on the car. Let me know what you need. I can't promise to pull them out quickly as we're moving house right now.
(10-15-2013, 09:03 AM)JB3 time to revive this thread again.
I just bought an 85 wagon and the SLS is already pissing me off, plus everything about it is rusty rusty rusty.
Since the last posts of this thread, I notice that propigskin has updated his product list a bit to make a whole bolt on kit for about 3 hundred and change. At that price for everything, including the block off plate, I think im going to go with him vs assembling the parts.
Any recent reviews on the propigskin stuff?
Nothing to say on the propigskin, but 18 months after my conversion and I have never looked back. Ride is great unladen and it'll carry a lot of weight without bottoming out.
Given the amount of work involved and given the usefulness of a wagon in carrying loads, don't short-change it!
(10-15-2013, 10:09 AM)martureo I'll post this on the FS section, but the wagon I bought was missing the HP line and a few other SLS bits.
If anyone is doing a conversion, send me the unused SLS bits! I'm trying to get this beast on the road and there's never a TD in the yards.
I have a pump, reservoir and the HP lines are still on the car. Let me know what you need. I can't promise to pull them out quickly as we're moving house right now.
(10-15-2013, 09:03 AM)JB3 time to revive this thread again.
I just bought an 85 wagon and the SLS is already pissing me off, plus everything about it is rusty rusty rusty.
Since the last posts of this thread, I notice that propigskin has updated his product list a bit to make a whole bolt on kit for about 3 hundred and change. At that price for everything, including the block off plate, I think im going to go with him vs assembling the parts.
Any recent reviews on the propigskin stuff?
Nothing to say on the propigskin, but 18 months after my conversion and I have never looked back. Ride is great unladen and it'll carry a lot of weight without bottoming out.
Given the amount of work involved and given the usefulness of a wagon in carrying loads, don't short-change it!
(10-15-2013, 11:07 AM)corrieb Nothing to say on the propigskin, but 18 months after my conversion and I have never looked back. Ride is great unladen and it'll carry a lot of weight without bottoming out.
Given the amount of work involved and given the usefulness of a wagon in carrying loads, don't short-change it!
It does look really good on your wagon.
I think the prices are very comparable and the quality seems decent between both options. Pluses and minuses for me are the simplicity plus having everything in one package.
Also, I didn't really want to reinforce the subframe hooks if I don't have to. We will see, I ordered propigs stuff. Ill post back to say how I found it as a product.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
(10-15-2013, 11:07 AM)corrieb Nothing to say on the propigskin, but 18 months after my conversion and I have never looked back. Ride is great unladen and it'll carry a lot of weight without bottoming out.
Given the amount of work involved and given the usefulness of a wagon in carrying loads, don't short-change it!
It does look really good on your wagon.
I think the prices are very comparable and the quality seems decent between both options. Pluses and minuses for me are the simplicity plus having everything in one package.
Also, I didn't really want to reinforce the subframe hooks if I don't have to. We will see, I ordered propigs stuff. Ill post back to say how I found it as a product.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
(10-16-2013, 03:12 PM)JB3(10-15-2013, 11:07 AM)corrieb Nothing to say on the propigskin, but 18 months after my conversion and I have never looked back. Ride is great unladen and it'll carry a lot of weight without bottoming out.
Given the amount of work involved and given the usefulness of a wagon in carrying loads, don't short-change it!
It does look really good on your wagon.
I think the prices are very comparable and the quality seems decent between both options. Pluses and minuses for me are the simplicity plus having everything in one package.
Also, I didn't really want to reinforce the subframe hooks if I don't have to. We will see, I ordered propigs stuff. Ill post back to say how I found it as a product.
It looks a touch high in the picture but has since settled to the perfect ride height.
Based on the info in the thread, I took it in to a garage to see what they thought about strengthening the hooks. They had a good look at it and told me it was unnecessary. I've since jacked up the rear many times and it looks like it holds it fine. Having said that, there's no rust on mine. If they were rusty, I'd think again. That said, a heavy duty spring, no matter who sells it to you, is going to put similar pressure on the stops.
My biggest concern was that the HD Bilstein shocks I have would be too harsh when combined with the HD springs. I'm pleased to say they're just right.
(10-16-2013, 03:12 PM)JB3(10-15-2013, 11:07 AM)corrieb Nothing to say on the propigskin, but 18 months after my conversion and I have never looked back. Ride is great unladen and it'll carry a lot of weight without bottoming out.
Given the amount of work involved and given the usefulness of a wagon in carrying loads, don't short-change it!
It does look really good on your wagon.
I think the prices are very comparable and the quality seems decent between both options. Pluses and minuses for me are the simplicity plus having everything in one package.
Also, I didn't really want to reinforce the subframe hooks if I don't have to. We will see, I ordered propigs stuff. Ill post back to say how I found it as a product.
It looks a touch high in the picture but has since settled to the perfect ride height.
Based on the info in the thread, I took it in to a garage to see what they thought about strengthening the hooks. They had a good look at it and told me it was unnecessary. I've since jacked up the rear many times and it looks like it holds it fine. Having said that, there's no rust on mine. If they were rusty, I'd think again. That said, a heavy duty spring, no matter who sells it to you, is going to put similar pressure on the stops.
My biggest concern was that the HD Bilstein shocks I have would be too harsh when combined with the HD springs. I'm pleased to say they're just right.
(10-16-2013, 03:28 PM)corrieb It looks a touch high in the picture but has since settled to the perfect ride height.
Based on the info in the thread, I took it in to a garage to see what they thought about strengthening the hooks. They had a good look at it and told me it was unnecessary. I've since jacked up the rear many times and it looks like it holds it fine. Having said that, there's no rust on mine. If they were rusty, I'd think again. That said, a heavy duty spring, no matter who sells it to you, is going to put similar pressure on the stops.
My biggest concern was that the HD Bilstein shocks I have would be too harsh when combined with the HD springs. I'm pleased to say they're just right.
Im definitely looking forward to this, one thing my wagon has is plenty of rust, so I may have to alter those hooks anyway. Haven't even looked at them yet.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
(10-16-2013, 03:28 PM)corrieb It looks a touch high in the picture but has since settled to the perfect ride height.
Based on the info in the thread, I took it in to a garage to see what they thought about strengthening the hooks. They had a good look at it and told me it was unnecessary. I've since jacked up the rear many times and it looks like it holds it fine. Having said that, there's no rust on mine. If they were rusty, I'd think again. That said, a heavy duty spring, no matter who sells it to you, is going to put similar pressure on the stops.
My biggest concern was that the HD Bilstein shocks I have would be too harsh when combined with the HD springs. I'm pleased to say they're just right.
Im definitely looking forward to this, one thing my wagon has is plenty of rust, so I may have to alter those hooks anyway. Haven't even looked at them yet.
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
There is also a "creative" axle rebooting going on... Interestingly, I've personally put 12k on it like this.... who knows how long it's been like that before me.
Will be dealing with this myself in the near future. Looks like the PO had issues at some point and installed blocks into the springs to get the car up to level ride height. There is a clunk I hear when I go over bumps from the rear... thinking the ram(s) are broken need to just get in the and remove them and see what I'm dealing with.
There is also a "creative" axle rebooting going on... Interestingly, I've personally put 12k on it like this.... who knows how long it's been like that before me.
The only thing I changed was the bolts provided for the SLS blockoff plate. The ones provided seemed a bit long and felt like they were bottoming out, so I swapped them for some extra oil pan cap screws.
some pics-
propigskin deluxe package-
![[Image: 006_zpsec79ac30.jpg]](http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/tinworm2/media/1985%20purple%20300TD/006_zpsec79ac30.jpg.html)
stock spring vs propig-
![[Image: 008_zpsb946c62a.jpg]](http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/tinworm2/media/1985%20purple%20300TD/008_zpsb946c62a.jpg.html)
installed-
![[Image: 012_zps31729c11.jpg]](http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/tinworm2/media/1985%20purple%20300TD/012_zps31729c11.jpg.html)
![[Image: 014_zpsba75c683.jpg]](http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/tinworm2/media/1985%20purple%20300TD/014_zpsba75c683.jpg.html)
![[Image: 017_zpsc32f3c5b.jpg]](http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/tinworm2/media/1985%20purple%20300TD/017_zpsc32f3c5b.jpg.html)
I left the two nubbin pads in place, ride height looks good-
![[Image: 018_zpsd8253625.jpg]](http://s1217.photobucket.com/user/tinworm2/media/1985%20purple%20300TD/018_zpsd8253625.jpg.html)
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
so pretty pleased with the propigskin product. plug and play with no surprises and included everything, even RTV for the blockoff plate. Nice half day project, took me about 3-4 hours to get everything removed and swapped, at a nice relaxing pace with showers of rust occasionally. I think its a good value, I checked my hooks for the subframe, and though the propig spring does push down harder, the hooks held fine and were a non issue. (even though passenger side is a bit rusty.)
The only thing I changed was the bolts provided for the SLS blockoff plate. The ones provided seemed a bit long and felt like they were bottoming out, so I swapped them for some extra oil pan cap screws.
some pics-
propigskin deluxe package-
stock spring vs propig-
installed-
I left the two nubbin pads in place, ride height looks good-
1974 240D 617 turbo swap, W201 5-speed, in the works project
1983 240D 616 stock, DD
1989 Chevy Astro, 617 turbo swap, T5 5-speed, 4.56 diff, work van
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