Alignment Woes
Alignment Woes
I put all new bushings in the front end awhile ago, had them align it, and bam, Its out of line. Again.
Suggestions?
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I have had my car aligned three times, and its still out of whack.
I put all new bushings in the front end awhile ago, had them align it, and bam, Its out of line. Again.
Suggestions?
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
1983 300TD : 4 Speed : SLS Delete : More. Daily Deathcab
1987 190E/16v/OM603 : 5 Speed : SLS Delete : Lots More..W201 Project
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
02-19-2013, 12:40 AM #5How are the ball joints?
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
Ray, The car walks all over the road, thats really the only difference driving wise, and it just started walking recently.
Don, No I did not take it to a dealership. I had a local tire and alignment shop do it.
Sassparilla, Ball joints don't have wear in them, but the boots are ripped, so it wouldn't hurt to replace them eventually.
Thanks guys
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Kozuka, The tires are toeing out (wearing on the inside tread)
Ray, The car walks all over the road, thats really the only difference driving wise, and it just started walking recently.
Don, No I did not take it to a dealership. I had a local tire and alignment shop do it.
Sassparilla, Ball joints don't have wear in them, but the boots are ripped, so it wouldn't hurt to replace them eventually.
Thanks guys
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
02-19-2013, 10:57 PM #7Toeing out will cause the car to go all over the place. As the front wheels will have a tendency to toe out slightly while driving it makes the car a bitch to drive since one wheel will be going straight and the other will be pointed out slightly. At least that's what I think is going on? Tell the shop you want more toe in lol
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
I only drove it 2k miles or something until it unaligned itself again.
Do you think I should still get it toed in more than usual, or hope that 3rd time is a charm?
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Do you guys think it is toeing out because the bushings needed time to get set in place or something?
I only drove it 2k miles or something until it unaligned itself again.
Do you think I should still get it toed in more than usual, or hope that 3rd time is a charm?
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Also, camber of the wheels can have similar effects.
This alignment is an art. I spend many hours driving, re-adjusting, and looking at the stance of the front end. Then I rest on it a few days/weeks and see how you feel about the work you've done.
if the tires are wearing on the inside maybe its from a camber adjustment not caused by the toe out.
toe out is the most likely explanation for 'walking all over the road'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
well sir, toe in by making the tie rod ends longer. That way each wheel will want to turn into the other and you'll feel straighter.
Also, camber of the wheels can have similar effects.
This alignment is an art. I spend many hours driving, re-adjusting, and looking at the stance of the front end. Then I rest on it a few days/weeks and see how you feel about the work you've done.
if the tires are wearing on the inside maybe its from a camber adjustment not caused by the toe out.
toe out is the most likely explanation for 'walking all over the road'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Checking ball joints for wear can be tricky since it's usually done with the suspension at full droop. Worn uppers seem to cause more wonder than lowers plus they're easier to change out. The linkage is easy to check as well as the idler arm. Lift up and down on the idler to check for wear. No movement is acceptable there. Unfortunately, you just can't trust the average alignment tech to check all this.
raysorenson
02-20-2013, 07:57 AM #11It's been my experience that a 123 with a fresh front end (everything) aligned to specs, even without the use of the spreader bar, tends to wear tires on the outside. I've also toe'd cars out before for handling purposes and they can still drive like laser guided missiles on the slabs. It's likely that your shit's wore slap out causing your alignment angles to change whenever the wind blows.
Checking ball joints for wear can be tricky since it's usually done with the suspension at full droop. Worn uppers seem to cause more wonder than lowers plus they're easier to change out. The linkage is easy to check as well as the idler arm. Lift up and down on the idler to check for wear. No movement is acceptable there. Unfortunately, you just can't trust the average alignment tech to check all this.
(02-20-2013, 07:57 AM)raysorenson Unfortunately, you just can't trust the average alignment tech to check all this.
I agree with that. I had my car aligned twice before I realized my control arm bushings were wore slap out
(my own dumb fault)I mixed up toe and camber...
I actually meant camber and I didn't realize it until larsalon said something. woops
So to clarify, My tires are wearing on the inside
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(02-20-2013, 07:57 AM)raysorenson Unfortunately, you just can't trust the average alignment tech to check all this.
I agree with that. I had my car aligned twice before I realized my control arm bushings were wore slap out
(my own dumb fault)I mixed up toe and camber...
I actually meant camber and I didn't realize it until larsalon said something. woops
So to clarify, My tires are wearing on the inside
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I need all new bushings upper/lower et cet and still I can get the wheels to stay in 'good' alignment.
I also disagree that a toe out alignment can drive like a 'laser guided missile'. But i am no professional just have driven tons of old worn out trucks and cars.
This is a good bit to read.
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
As I have said this is an art. And any adjustment will have bearing on all the other adjustable bits.
If you're not doing the work yourself then I don't know what to say about it.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
I think 'proper' alignment is slight negative camber and slight toe in.
I need all new bushings upper/lower et cet and still I can get the wheels to stay in 'good' alignment.
I also disagree that a toe out alignment can drive like a 'laser guided missile'. But i am no professional just have driven tons of old worn out trucks and cars.
This is a good bit to read.
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html
As I have said this is an art. And any adjustment will have bearing on all the other adjustable bits.
If you're not doing the work yourself then I don't know what to say about it.
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Considering toe specs and stacking the use of that silly "spreader bar" up with it, it's evident that Mercedes wants you to use an obscene amount of toe in on a W123. Since I've seen outside tire wear on a W123 with a new front end without using the spreader, I agree with larsalan. Use a slight amount of toe unless your tires tell you otherwise.
If, for whatever reason, you don't want to mess with replacing every single questionable part on your front end with new parts, replace the idler arm bushings and do your own alignments with string, a plumb bob and whatever other crude instruments you can come up with. You can align a car with a worn out front end so that tire wear is acceptable, but with bad idler arm bushings (dirt cheap and easy to replace they are) all bets are off.
raysorenson
02-20-2013, 08:49 PM #14My statement should be qualified. The vehicles with toe out were different platforms and "laser guided missile" is a pretty vague description. Toe out pretty much won't work worth a crap on a W123 or 124 with stock bushings so it's merits aren't worth bringing up in this thread.
Considering toe specs and stacking the use of that silly "spreader bar" up with it, it's evident that Mercedes wants you to use an obscene amount of toe in on a W123. Since I've seen outside tire wear on a W123 with a new front end without using the spreader, I agree with larsalan. Use a slight amount of toe unless your tires tell you otherwise.
If, for whatever reason, you don't want to mess with replacing every single questionable part on your front end with new parts, replace the idler arm bushings and do your own alignments with string, a plumb bob and whatever other crude instruments you can come up with. You can align a car with a worn out front end so that tire wear is acceptable, but with bad idler arm bushings (dirt cheap and easy to replace they are) all bets are off.
It also squeaks like crazy. Has anyone drilled and tapped them so a grease fitted could be put in?
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I will have to check my idler arm bushings. I replaced the bottom control arm bushings (with w123 because I didn't know any better at the time) and the rubber bushings in the top pieces that are aluminum.
It also squeaks like crazy. Has anyone drilled and tapped them so a grease fitted could be put in?
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-21-2013, 08:57 AM #16Can you get a needle grease fitting in there? Advance/Autozoo/NAPA has them they're like $8. Skechiest tool ever-grease ball fitting on one end, hypodermic needle on the other
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
I can get it to go away for about a day or two by spraying it with some penetrating oil
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
I don't know, I'll have to look into it. But I gotta do something, that squeaking drives me nuts!
I can get it to go away for about a day or two by spraying it with some penetrating oil
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(02-21-2013, 08:57 AM)Simpler=Better Can you get a needle grease fitting in there? Advance/Autozoo/NAPA has them they're like $8. Skechiest tool ever-grease ball fitting on one end, hypodermic needle on the other
Could one use this on knees hips and elbows? Lol
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
02-21-2013, 07:36 PM #18(02-21-2013, 08:57 AM)Simpler=Better Can you get a needle grease fitting in there? Advance/Autozoo/NAPA has them they're like $8. Skechiest tool ever-grease ball fitting on one end, hypodermic needle on the other
Could one use this on knees hips and elbows? Lol
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
(02-21-2013, 07:36 PM)sassparilla_kid(02-21-2013, 08:57 AM)Simpler=Better Can you get a needle grease fitting in there? Advance/Autozoo/NAPA has them they're like $8. Skechiest tool ever-grease ball fitting on one end, hypodermic needle on the other
Could one use this on knees hips and elbows? Lol
If your man enough to drill and tap into your own bones
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(02-21-2013, 07:36 PM)sassparilla_kid(02-21-2013, 08:57 AM)Simpler=Better Can you get a needle grease fitting in there? Advance/Autozoo/NAPA has them they're like $8. Skechiest tool ever-grease ball fitting on one end, hypodermic needle on the other
Could one use this on knees hips and elbows? Lol
If your man enough to drill and tap into your own bones
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
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