ip lines steel braided?
ip lines steel braided?
02-07-2013, 12:23 PM
#1
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
lgreeley83
02-07-2013, 12:23 PM #1Is it ever done? Braided from IP to injectors. Just crossed my mind.
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
02-07-2013, 12:48 PM
#2
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-07-2013, 12:48 PM #2Can be done, I want to say I've seen it on someone's fancy pants build...
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
02-07-2013, 05:49 PM
#3
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
02-07-2013, 05:49 PM #3Do you mean to cover the metal lines with braided covering. or make the line flexible? I would think a braided ss line would expand and contract under the pressure of the injection
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
lgreeley83
02-07-2013, 08:14 PM #5Flexible... not a wrap.
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
02-08-2013, 07:40 AM
#6
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-08-2013, 07:40 AM #6I misread...no way you'd want that, they would change volume and disturb delivery. You want those lines as stiff as possible, and all equal length
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
02-08-2013, 08:37 AM
#7
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
lgreeley83
02-08-2013, 08:37 AM #7Hmm. OK makes sense. Something about those lines annoys me guess I'll live.
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
02-08-2013, 08:41 AM
#8
EDIT:
Gut some spark plug boots and wires, use them to cover the injectors & lines. That ought to confuse some people
This post was last modified: 02-08-2013, 08:42 AM by Simpler=Better.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-08-2013, 08:41 AM #8If you don't like their looks take the clamping block off, round the edges into pretty ovals, reinstall. Then paint the assembly or get them chromed.
EDIT:
Gut some spark plug boots and wires, use them to cover the injectors & lines. That ought to confuse some people
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
02-08-2013, 09:36 AM
#9
That ought to confuse some a lot of people.
This post was last modified: 02-08-2013, 09:37 AM by larsalan.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
02-08-2013, 11:45 AM
#10
On a function and design point..I don't know anything about timing the IP other than the 5 minutes or so I read yesterday. Does their rigidity affect the ease in adjusting the timing? If thats a dumb ass ques. on its cool I need to read a lot more on this topic. If its a flat out no, I have no idea of what I'm talking about anyway. If you feel the need to explain maybe we can get together and while I teach you some of my macreme skills you can tell me.
I got crazy weaving skills.
This post was last modified: 02-08-2013, 11:49 AM by lgreeley83.
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
lgreeley83
02-08-2013, 11:45 AM #10Lol. You guys my god. I think I'll weave a paracord design. That's makes everything hardcore. I'm a rough and tough dude.
On a function and design point..I don't know anything about timing the IP other than the 5 minutes or so I read yesterday. Does their rigidity affect the ease in adjusting the timing? If thats a dumb ass ques. on its cool I need to read a lot more on this topic. If its a flat out no, I have no idea of what I'm talking about anyway. If you feel the need to explain maybe we can get together and while I teach you some of my macreme skills you can tell me.
I got crazy weaving skills.
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
02-08-2013, 11:51 AM
#11
Always we are trying to balance the pressures, spray patterns and timing of every cylinder.
Another thought on awesome lines. Remember those twisty straws with all the loops in them?
This post was last modified: 02-08-2013, 11:54 AM by larsalan.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
The rigidity and equal lengths should be important. It is high pressure in them lines. Like near 2000psi, right?
Always we are trying to balance the pressures, spray patterns and timing of every cylinder.
Another thought on awesome lines. Remember those twisty straws with all the loops in them?
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
02-08-2013, 11:56 AM
#12
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
lgreeley83
02-08-2013, 11:56 AM #12I read somewhere though that some dude had to bend them a bit after adjusting the timing. Is that true or was my understanding impaired at that moment? I believe I was a few 6-10 beers deep while reading.
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
02-08-2013, 12:02 PM
#13
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
I have bent them by hand just a touch to adjust angles and such. Not much different than any other type of plumbing with compression fittings.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
02-08-2013, 12:02 PM
#14
One could get wild with the design. I wouldn't.
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
lgreeley83
02-08-2013, 12:02 PM #14And now just asking for the sake of asking. What about custom designed lines? Still steel but bent in a personally desired design? Line length doesn't matter as long as each line is equal in length to the others?
One could get wild with the design. I wouldn't.
" straighten up that star on the grill, assholes."
02-08-2013, 12:11 PM
#15
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
I would think that is mostly correct. The way they are designed stock seems as if they flow mainly uphill till they turn at the injector. So any air bubbles would tend to flow that direction. Probably air would get evacuated no mater the design. But that could be an issue with any loop de loops.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
02-12-2013, 12:18 AM
#17
(02-11-2013, 10:10 PM)lpumb3 while your on the subject of Ij Lines , how about copper ? ive been considering a rerun of my fuel lines . i would like to use copper/brass for the entire fuel sys .
If you use copper or brass fuel lines, don't try using veggie oil as fuel. Copper and brass catalyze the polymerization of veggie oil, turning it into a hard green wax.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
02-12-2013, 12:18 AM #17(02-11-2013, 10:10 PM)lpumb3 while your on the subject of Ij Lines , how about copper ? ive been considering a rerun of my fuel lines . i would like to use copper/brass for the entire fuel sys .
If you use copper or brass fuel lines, don't try using veggie oil as fuel. Copper and brass catalyze the polymerization of veggie oil, turning it into a hard green wax.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
02-12-2013, 09:03 AM
#18
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-12-2013, 09:03 AM #18If you want the fancy look use steel and have them copper coated. Any chrome shop should be able to do this
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
02-13-2013, 12:33 PM
#20
im not planing veggie , but though it would be a nice option down the road .
not so much for the fancy look , just easier to bend and corrosion resistance.i need to do my brake lines again at least. its a bonus that it gets old-timey lookin, or keep shiny.
copper plating crossed my mind , i cant seem to find a "coating " company around here that will touch anything that came off a vehicle. all kinds of fancy options too .
as far as painting isnt it pretty normal to just powder coat over everything on big diesels? on that point once you crack a line it flakes.
i did not realize the veggie would react , could i treat it with power service or some thing ?
im not planing veggie , but though it would be a nice option down the road .
not so much for the fancy look , just easier to bend and corrosion resistance.i need to do my brake lines again at least. its a bonus that it gets old-timey lookin, or keep shiny.
copper plating crossed my mind , i cant seem to find a "coating " company around here that will touch anything that came off a vehicle. all kinds of fancy options too .
as far as painting isnt it pretty normal to just powder coat over everything on big diesels? on that point once you crack a line it flakes.
02-13-2013, 02:49 PM
#21
(02-13-2013, 12:33 PM)lpumb3 i did not realize the veggie would react, could i treat it with power service or some thing ?...
Nothing I have tried, including Power Service Diesel Kleen, seems to prevent the polymerization of canola, corn, or soy oil if it is kept in contact with copper or brass.
Attached is a close-up pic of the brass pump attached to the motor with which I pump veggie oil through my centrifuge. The small amounts of canola oil which drip down when I install a fresh clearline hose have polymerized on the brass.
A few months ago I had to replace an injector hard line which turned out to be clogged solid with the green wax. Upon removing the spin-on fuel filter (some off brand I bought on closeout at NAPA --big mistake. Mann or Knecht only, from now on) and cutting it open, I discovered the filter to have a brass or bronze-plated screen, and copper spacers and washers. The filter material was all caked up with the green wax.
100 ml of turpentine plus 5 ml of acetone per every 4 gallons of clean, filtered veggie oil is enough to dissolve the green wax, gradually. Using this blend I managed to clean out the other four hard lines, but it took about 5,000 miles.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
02-13-2013, 02:49 PM #21(02-13-2013, 12:33 PM)lpumb3 i did not realize the veggie would react, could i treat it with power service or some thing ?...
Nothing I have tried, including Power Service Diesel Kleen, seems to prevent the polymerization of canola, corn, or soy oil if it is kept in contact with copper or brass.
Attached is a close-up pic of the brass pump attached to the motor with which I pump veggie oil through my centrifuge. The small amounts of canola oil which drip down when I install a fresh clearline hose have polymerized on the brass.
A few months ago I had to replace an injector hard line which turned out to be clogged solid with the green wax. Upon removing the spin-on fuel filter (some off brand I bought on closeout at NAPA --big mistake. Mann or Knecht only, from now on) and cutting it open, I discovered the filter to have a brass or bronze-plated screen, and copper spacers and washers. The filter material was all caked up with the green wax.
100 ml of turpentine plus 5 ml of acetone per every 4 gallons of clean, filtered veggie oil is enough to dissolve the green wax, gradually. Using this blend I managed to clean out the other four hard lines, but it took about 5,000 miles.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
02-14-2013, 03:04 AM
#23
(02-13-2013, 05:59 PM)lpumb3 damn . that must be a huge problem for veggie guys , seeing that most of the heat collectors are copper coils...
Everyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass heat exchanger coils uses a 2-tank system, so as to purge the system with petro diesel before shutting the engine off. Purging serves the twofold purpose of, one, avoiding extended contact of the veggie oil with copper and/or brass, and, two, preventing the injectors and filters from being plugged with viscous veggie oil if the weather overnight is cold.
Copper coils inside the veggie oil fuel tank get quickly coated with the wax, which prevents further contact with the oil and thus the buildup is self-limiting.
I've never heard of anyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass fuel *lines*, which is what I thought you were talking about. The reason why not, is obvious once you've seen the green wax form.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
JustPassinThru
02-14-2013, 03:04 AM #23(02-13-2013, 05:59 PM)lpumb3 damn . that must be a huge problem for veggie guys , seeing that most of the heat collectors are copper coils...
Everyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass heat exchanger coils uses a 2-tank system, so as to purge the system with petro diesel before shutting the engine off. Purging serves the twofold purpose of, one, avoiding extended contact of the veggie oil with copper and/or brass, and, two, preventing the injectors and filters from being plugged with viscous veggie oil if the weather overnight is cold.
Copper coils inside the veggie oil fuel tank get quickly coated with the wax, which prevents further contact with the oil and thus the buildup is self-limiting.
I've never heard of anyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass fuel *lines*, which is what I thought you were talking about. The reason why not, is obvious once you've seen the green wax form.
Gone but not forgotten: two W123 sedans and two W124 wagons.
W124 1987 300TD wagon, for sale, $1000 (some assembly required).
02-14-2013, 03:21 PM
#24
(02-14-2013, 03:04 AM)JustPassinThruI have personally ,never run veggie. So i eould never have known.(02-13-2013, 05:59 PM)lpumb3 damn . that must be a huge problem for veggie guys , seeing that most of the heat collectors are copper coils...
Everyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass heat exchanger coils uses a 2-tank system, so as to purge the system with petro diesel before shutting the engine off. Purging serves the twofold purpose of, one, avoiding extended contact of the veggie oil with copper and/or brass, and, two, preventing the injectors and filters from being plugged with viscous veggie oil if the weather overnight is cold.
Copper coils inside the veggie oil fuel tank get quickly coated with the wax, which prevents further contact with the oil and thus the buildup is self-limiting.
I've never heard of anyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass fuel *lines*, which is what I thought you were talking about. The reason why not, is obvious once you've seen the green wax form.
You were correct as far as my interest in using Cooper for all the lines . Mainly just to avoid corrosion. I dont want to do it twice.
It would look nostalgic with Copper in tge bay Though.
(02-14-2013, 03:04 AM)JustPassinThruI have personally ,never run veggie. So i eould never have known.(02-13-2013, 05:59 PM)lpumb3 damn . that must be a huge problem for veggie guys , seeing that most of the heat collectors are copper coils...
Everyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass heat exchanger coils uses a 2-tank system, so as to purge the system with petro diesel before shutting the engine off. Purging serves the twofold purpose of, one, avoiding extended contact of the veggie oil with copper and/or brass, and, two, preventing the injectors and filters from being plugged with viscous veggie oil if the weather overnight is cold.
Copper coils inside the veggie oil fuel tank get quickly coated with the wax, which prevents further contact with the oil and thus the buildup is self-limiting.
I've never heard of anyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass fuel *lines*, which is what I thought you were talking about. The reason why not, is obvious once you've seen the green wax form.
You were correct as far as my interest in using Cooper for all the lines . Mainly just to avoid corrosion. I dont want to do it twice.
It would look nostalgic with Copper in tge bay Though.
02-20-2013, 01:29 AM
#25
(02-14-2013, 03:04 AM)JustPassinThru(02-13-2013, 05:59 PM)lpumb3 damn . that must be a huge problem for veggie guys , seeing that most of the heat collectors are copper coils...
Everyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass heat exchanger coils uses a 2-tank system, so as to purge the system with petro diesel before shutting the engine off. Purging serves the twofold purpose of, one, avoiding extended contact of the veggie oil with copper and/or brass, and, two, preventing the injectors and filters from being plugged with viscous veggie oil if the weather overnight is cold.
Copper coils inside the veggie oil fuel tank get quickly coated with the wax, which prevents further contact with the oil and thus the buildup is self-limiting.
I was thinking about this green stuff. Does penut oil have the same effects? Otto diesel designed his engine with penut oil. I would assume back then brass and Copper were his only options for fuel lines.
I've never heard of anyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass fuel *lines*, which is what I thought you were talking about. The reason why not, is obvious once you've seen the green wax form.
(02-14-2013, 03:04 AM)JustPassinThru(02-13-2013, 05:59 PM)lpumb3 damn . that must be a huge problem for veggie guys , seeing that most of the heat collectors are copper coils...
Everyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass heat exchanger coils uses a 2-tank system, so as to purge the system with petro diesel before shutting the engine off. Purging serves the twofold purpose of, one, avoiding extended contact of the veggie oil with copper and/or brass, and, two, preventing the injectors and filters from being plugged with viscous veggie oil if the weather overnight is cold.
Copper coils inside the veggie oil fuel tank get quickly coated with the wax, which prevents further contact with the oil and thus the buildup is self-limiting.
I was thinking about this green stuff. Does penut oil have the same effects? Otto diesel designed his engine with penut oil. I would assume back then brass and Copper were his only options for fuel lines.
I've never heard of anyone who burns straight veggie oil using copper or brass fuel *lines*, which is what I thought you were talking about. The reason why not, is obvious once you've seen the green wax form.
02-20-2013, 08:56 AM
#26
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-20-2013, 08:56 AM #26AFAIK it's only a problem with waste oil. The fresh stuff shouldn't be too much of an issue-but who runs $8/gallon fresh oil?
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
02-20-2013, 05:21 PM
#28
fordheaded
02-20-2013, 05:21 PM #28If you want corrosion resistant lines, I'd go with 5/16" or 3/8" stainless steel. Cost would be close to copper but a lot more durable. With a hose on each end it's easy.
02-20-2013, 10:16 PM
#29
But Injection lines aren't very cheap.
And the shorter the injection line, the better. But they absolutely have to be the same length.
And for performance you could use a injection line with a bigger ID, but you better be pushing some major fuel befor you do that :p
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
It is true that all injection lines have to be the same length, or it will mess timing all up. You could get custom made SS lines, they would be real shiny and pretty
But Injection lines aren't very cheap.
And the shorter the injection line, the better. But they absolutely have to be the same length.
And for performance you could use a injection line with a bigger ID, but you better be pushing some major fuel befor you do that :p
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
02-21-2013, 09:03 AM
#30
(02-20-2013, 05:21 PM)fordheaded If you want corrosion resistant lines, I'd go with 5/16" or 3/8" stainless steel. Cost would be close to copper but a lot more durable. With a hose on each end it's easy.
When it comes to build time I'm going all out with 1/2" fuel lines. I will never ever have a line related fuel restriction.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-21-2013, 09:03 AM #30(02-20-2013, 05:21 PM)fordheaded If you want corrosion resistant lines, I'd go with 5/16" or 3/8" stainless steel. Cost would be close to copper but a lot more durable. With a hose on each end it's easy.
When it comes to build time I'm going all out with 1/2" fuel lines. I will never ever have a line related fuel restriction.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
02-21-2013, 06:46 PM
#31
(02-21-2013, 09:03 AM)Simpler=Better(02-20-2013, 05:21 PM)fordheaded If you want corrosion resistant lines, I'd go with 5/16" or 3/8" stainless steel. Cost would be close to copper but a lot more durable. With a hose on each end it's easy.
When it comes to build time I'm going all out with 1/2" fuel lines. I will never ever have a line related fuel restriction.
No but you might kill your battery bleeding the air out of them lines lol
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
02-21-2013, 06:46 PM #31(02-21-2013, 09:03 AM)Simpler=Better(02-20-2013, 05:21 PM)fordheaded If you want corrosion resistant lines, I'd go with 5/16" or 3/8" stainless steel. Cost would be close to copper but a lot more durable. With a hose on each end it's easy.
When it comes to build time I'm going all out with 1/2" fuel lines. I will never ever have a line related fuel restriction.
No but you might kill your battery bleeding the air out of them lines lol
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
02-21-2013, 11:02 PM
#32
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-21-2013, 11:02 PM #32Nah, just pressurize the fuel tank and it will come shooting out
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
02-22-2013, 10:34 AM
#33
Depending on the results of the pop test, I think I would likely make a full set of flex lines at some point, but only use it for tuning at the dyno, etc... once you get dialed in for max power, mark the pump and block (for future reference in case it slips, etc) and then reinstall hard lines...
with some flex lines you could likely even tune it while it was running, like an old distributor based gasser. That would be pretty awesome...
at any rate, I will definitely end up figuring out a way to make AN hoses work for the injector return lines and say goodbye to those pesky rubber lines forever.
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
02-22-2013, 10:34 AM #33When I was planning on doing my injector rehab on the 617, I was going to do a pop test with the hard line and one with a stainless braid in place to see if there was any discernable differences between each setup...more of a "feel" than anything empirical tho... I was going to get a couple of -3 AN 90* fittings TIG welded to a spare set of tube connectors to make the joint on each end. You can buy a set of 3000 psi tested brake lines from Earl's in many lenghts, starting at 8" and they would be machine cut and assembled and very close tolereances in length, so timing should not be an issue.
Depending on the results of the pop test, I think I would likely make a full set of flex lines at some point, but only use it for tuning at the dyno, etc... once you get dialed in for max power, mark the pump and block (for future reference in case it slips, etc) and then reinstall hard lines...
with some flex lines you could likely even tune it while it was running, like an old distributor based gasser. That would be pretty awesome...
at any rate, I will definitely end up figuring out a way to make AN hoses work for the injector return lines and say goodbye to those pesky rubber lines forever.
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
02-22-2013, 12:43 PM
#34
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
02-22-2013, 12:43 PM #34The length of the lines would effectively change timing
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
02-22-2013, 02:13 PM
#35
(02-20-2013, 05:21 PM)fordheaded If you want corrosion resistant lines, I'd go with 5/16" or 3/8" stainless steel. Cost would be close to copper but a lot more durable. With a hose on each end it's easy.
i see your in NJ , my brake supply house gets his ss from NJ
id love to see a braided setup after your finished ,simpler. do you think it would sound a little quieter ?/damping ? in the system . no cigar pipe needed possibly , how important is that pipe anyways
This post was last modified: 02-22-2013, 02:55 PM by lpumb3.
(02-20-2013, 05:21 PM)fordheaded If you want corrosion resistant lines, I'd go with 5/16" or 3/8" stainless steel. Cost would be close to copper but a lot more durable. With a hose on each end it's easy.
i see your in NJ , my brake supply house gets his ss from NJ
id love to see a braided setup after your finished ,simpler. do you think it would sound a little quieter ?/damping ? in the system . no cigar pipe needed possibly , how important is that pipe anyways
02-22-2013, 03:24 PM
#36
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
02-22-2013, 03:24 PM #36I'm failing to see how the length of the lines affects timing, unless diesel (liquid) is extremely compressible, then I could see differences in volume of the lines causing issues
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
02-22-2013, 03:31 PM
#37
The amount of expansion in the line could also make a difference with timing also! More line more expansion before injection different timing
This post was last modified: 02-22-2013, 03:53 PM by willbhere4u.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
02-22-2013, 03:31 PM #37Well there all equal length for a reason
The amount of expansion in the line could also make a difference with timing also! More line more expansion before injection different timing
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
02-22-2013, 03:59 PM
#38
(02-22-2013, 03:24 PM)sassparilla_kid I'm failing to see how the length of the lines affects timing, unless diesel (liquid) is extremely compressible, then I could see differences in volume of the lines causing issues
Diesel is not compressible like air, but to make a simple example:
Walk 5 steps and then walk 10 steps. What of both took you longer?
The fuel also has to make its way through the injection line.
Gruß
Volker
(02-22-2013, 03:24 PM)sassparilla_kid I'm failing to see how the length of the lines affects timing, unless diesel (liquid) is extremely compressible, then I could see differences in volume of the lines causing issues
Diesel is not compressible like air, but to make a simple example:
Walk 5 steps and then walk 10 steps. What of both took you longer?
The fuel also has to make its way through the injection line.
Gruß
Volker
02-23-2013, 04:03 PM
#39
(02-22-2013, 03:59 PM)Volker407(02-22-2013, 03:24 PM)sassparilla_kid I'm failing to see how the length of the lines affects timing, unless diesel (liquid) is extremely compressible, then I could see differences in volume of the lines causing issues
Diesel is not compressible like air, but to make a simple example:
Walk 5 steps and then walk 10 steps. What of both took you longer?
The fuel also has to make its way through the injection line.
Gruß
Volker
Good analogy Volker!
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(02-22-2013, 03:59 PM)Volker407(02-22-2013, 03:24 PM)sassparilla_kid I'm failing to see how the length of the lines affects timing, unless diesel (liquid) is extremely compressible, then I could see differences in volume of the lines causing issues
Diesel is not compressible like air, but to make a simple example:
Walk 5 steps and then walk 10 steps. What of both took you longer?
The fuel also has to make its way through the injection line.
Gruß
Volker
Good analogy Volker!
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
02-26-2013, 07:49 PM
#40
If it seemed to run well on the flex lines, I would even have considered leaving them on there as a long term test... then once timing is dialed in via your favorite method, it would be good...as long as there werent any differences between cylinders.
I think what saparilla_kid was getting at is thinking about the line as being full of fuel...now picture one molecule of fuel entering the pipe from the delivery valve, pushing one out at the end...now expand to larger view...it seems like it would take a major difference in line length to have noticeable effect on timing,
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
SurfRodder
02-26-2013, 07:49 PM #40yeah, if I ended up making them, I would have made them all equal and by trimming the amount of hard line remaining from the donor, you could even make each line a "standard" siza as well as the same length as stock...wouldnt be too hard IMO... I think the main thing would be to keep the lines consistent between cylinders, as a very minor change in length (less than .5mm or so) probably wouldnt change timing to a great degree, at least as fast as these things turn...
If it seemed to run well on the flex lines, I would even have considered leaving them on there as a long term test... then once timing is dialed in via your favorite method, it would be good...as long as there werent any differences between cylinders.
I think what saparilla_kid was getting at is thinking about the line as being full of fuel...now picture one molecule of fuel entering the pipe from the delivery valve, pushing one out at the end...now expand to larger view...it seems like it would take a major difference in line length to have noticeable effect on timing,
W123 Mods: 4 speed ** manual climate control ** '85 Kalitucky intake ** manual windows & full tint ** Euro headlights retrofit w/bixenon projectors ** 4 brake light mod ** Vogtland 50mm drop front & Lesjofors S600 drop rear springs ** 16" rims ** late w126 brake spindles, rotors & calipers ** full suspension rehab ** Bilstein HDs ** AL129X alternator & 1/0 starter and charging cables ** 300GD clutch/flywheel ** AFCO 80103N radiator & Earl's 41610 oil cooler ** custom block-off plate, remote oil filter & t-stat ** MW IP w/ tomnik's 6.5mm 'Holly' elements **
S124 Mods: 400E Rear subframe ** SL600 Brakes ** Late 300E 210mm diff ** SLK230 6 speed ** 17" CLK rims ** Vented RF Fender ** Facelift Hood, Headlights, and Lower Cladding **
OBK# 62
02-27-2013, 12:33 PM
#41
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
02-27-2013, 12:33 PM #41The only thing that would concern me would be if the line has more expansion before the injection! going from 0-2000 psi with every injection! Even the steel line's have a little expatiation and contraction. if it expands more or less it would change the injection timing!
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
02-28-2013, 02:45 PM
#42
(02-26-2013, 07:49 PM)SurfRodder yeah, if I ended up making them, I would have made them all equal and by trimming the amount of hard line remaining from the donor, you could even make each line a "standard" siza as well as the same length as stock...wouldnt be too hard IMO... I think the main thing would be to keep the lines consistent between cylinders, as a very minor change in length (less than .5mm or so) probably wouldnt change timing to a great degree, at least as fast as these things turn...
If it seemed to run well on the flex lines, I would even have considered leaving them on there as a long term test... then once timing is dialed in via your favorite method, it would be good...as long as there werent any differences between cylinders.
I think what saparilla_kid was getting at is thinking about the line as being full of fuel...now picture one molecule of fuel entering the pipe from the delivery valve, pushing one out at the end...now expand to larger view...it seems like it would take a major difference in line length to have noticeable effect on timing,
Yeah that's exactly what I was talking about. I just wasn't sure if diesel could be compressed at all or how much the lines expand, which I could see affecting timing. I think you would have to get some pretty stout flex lines but it would be pretty awesome I think, being able to tune the engine while its running (assuming it doesn't shake as much as mine does hahaa)
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
sassparilla_kid
02-28-2013, 02:45 PM #42(02-26-2013, 07:49 PM)SurfRodder yeah, if I ended up making them, I would have made them all equal and by trimming the amount of hard line remaining from the donor, you could even make each line a "standard" siza as well as the same length as stock...wouldnt be too hard IMO... I think the main thing would be to keep the lines consistent between cylinders, as a very minor change in length (less than .5mm or so) probably wouldnt change timing to a great degree, at least as fast as these things turn...
If it seemed to run well on the flex lines, I would even have considered leaving them on there as a long term test... then once timing is dialed in via your favorite method, it would be good...as long as there werent any differences between cylinders.
I think what saparilla_kid was getting at is thinking about the line as being full of fuel...now picture one molecule of fuel entering the pipe from the delivery valve, pushing one out at the end...now expand to larger view...it seems like it would take a major difference in line length to have noticeable effect on timing,
Yeah that's exactly what I was talking about. I just wasn't sure if diesel could be compressed at all or how much the lines expand, which I could see affecting timing. I think you would have to get some pretty stout flex lines but it would be pretty awesome I think, being able to tune the engine while its running (assuming it doesn't shake as much as mine does hahaa)
-1982 300D Turbo, 280k miles, ALDA apparently maxxed, fram 8038, 12 lbs boost, non-egr manifolds, W/M injection, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 front rotors/calipers, 4-speed swap
In the works: A/W IC, adjust pump, turbo rebuild (w/60 trim comp wheel)
-1980 300SD, 110k, project car. Goal is to get it lookin' like it did on the showroom floor (body and interior wise, not necessarily under the hood )
-1974 240D, FRESH PAINT!!!!!!
02-28-2013, 03:51 PM
#43
(02-20-2013, 10:16 PM)MFSuper90 It is true that all injection lines have to be the same length, or it will mess timing all up. You could get custom made SS lines, they would be real shiny and pretty
But Injection lines aren't very cheap.
And the shorter the injection line, the better. But they absolutely have to be the same length.
And for performance you could use a injection line with a bigger ID, but you better be pushing some major fuel befor you do that :p
so whats the story with bigger diameter injector lines for performance, will this not reduce pressure but improve flow?
(02-20-2013, 10:16 PM)MFSuper90 It is true that all injection lines have to be the same length, or it will mess timing all up. You could get custom made SS lines, they would be real shiny and pretty
But Injection lines aren't very cheap.
And the shorter the injection line, the better. But they absolutely have to be the same length.
And for performance you could use a injection line with a bigger ID, but you better be pushing some major fuel befor you do that :p
so whats the story with bigger diameter injector lines for performance, will this not reduce pressure but improve flow?
02-28-2013, 05:25 PM
#44
fordheaded
02-28-2013, 05:25 PM #44Using hydraulic theory, if you double the size of the line I.D., you cut your pressure in half. That means your IP will have to double it's output pressure to keep the injectors operational. I could be wrong, but .....
02-28-2013, 06:30 PM
#45
(02-28-2013, 05:25 PM)fordheaded Using hydraulic theory, if you double the size of the line I.D., you cut your pressure in half. That means your IP will have to double it's output pressure to keep the injectors operational. I could be wrong, but .....
Not sure that is correct in this case as you aren't talking about pistons or rams. You are correct for say a master cylinder pushing a slave cylinder of twice the size. The slave would either move half as much or you would need to put in twice the fluid.
The way I see it, if the existing line has 5cc of fuel in it and your pump pushes 10cc into it then 10cc will come out the other end. Assuming the fuel doesn't compress and the line doesn't expand. If your new line has 10cc of fuel in it and your pump pushes 10cc into it you will still get 10cc out the other end.
(02-28-2013, 05:25 PM)fordheaded Using hydraulic theory, if you double the size of the line I.D., you cut your pressure in half. That means your IP will have to double it's output pressure to keep the injectors operational. I could be wrong, but .....
Not sure that is correct in this case as you aren't talking about pistons or rams. You are correct for say a master cylinder pushing a slave cylinder of twice the size. The slave would either move half as much or you would need to put in twice the fluid.
The way I see it, if the existing line has 5cc of fuel in it and your pump pushes 10cc into it then 10cc will come out the other end. Assuming the fuel doesn't compress and the line doesn't expand. If your new line has 10cc of fuel in it and your pump pushes 10cc into it you will still get 10cc out the other end.
02-28-2013, 09:45 PM
#47
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
Simpler=Better
02-28-2013, 09:45 PM #47You can shop around for other lines from this era, the connector seems to be standardized. I used a random allis chalmers injector line (60s?70s?) to make my drip tube.
Newbie-read this: Cheap Tricks
617.952-220k-Getting built up
larsalan I guess I need to look at this stupid ass drip shit. What you have to like mess with those elements on the pump? What a fucking hassle. then use some wire to hold the throttle open or some shit?
03-03-2013, 09:06 AM
#48
(02-28-2013, 03:51 PM)mantahead so whats the story with bigger diameter injector lines for performance, will this not reduce pressure but improve flow?
Mostly for injection pumps with big elements in them.
Some Cummins guys that make BIG HP, run as big as .120 in. ID injection lines.
I just recently put bigger injection lines on my pulling tractor, which is naturally-asperated (for now
) and it definitely picked up some hp with them.With a different pump and bigger injection lines, which are also shorter than stock, I picked up almost 20hp. Which is crazy for not having a turbo to compensate for the fuel I was putting through it.
just my 2 cents
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
(02-28-2013, 03:51 PM)mantahead so whats the story with bigger diameter injector lines for performance, will this not reduce pressure but improve flow?
Mostly for injection pumps with big elements in them.
Some Cummins guys that make BIG HP, run as big as .120 in. ID injection lines.
I just recently put bigger injection lines on my pulling tractor, which is naturally-asperated (for now
) and it definitely picked up some hp with them.With a different pump and bigger injection lines, which are also shorter than stock, I picked up almost 20hp. Which is crazy for not having a turbo to compensate for the fuel I was putting through it.
just my 2 cents
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
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