602 rotary pump
602 rotary pump
I am reluctant to fit an m pump as the rotary is working at a higher pressure and there would be issues with inj pipes and injector pressure.
Many sprinters were sold in the US and perhaps someone has the knowledge...
tony.bruegger
10-19-2012, 12:12 PM #1Hello guys...first post on this forum although regular on Uk G wagon owners site.I have a sprinter type 602 direct injection motor for a project and could do with advice on a suitable rotary 5 cyl pump with mechanical govenor to replace the VP37...this seems to be a pump all on its own...the previous thread on this site is inconclusive.
I am reluctant to fit an m pump as the rotary is working at a higher pressure and there would be issues with inj pipes and injector pressure.
Many sprinters were sold in the US and perhaps someone has the knowledge...
tony.bruegger
10-20-2012, 04:57 AM #3Thx..of course not introduced til 2000 in US..wd be cdi engines...Anyone else out there have any ideas on an alternative mechanical rotary 5 cyl pump ??
(10-20-2012, 04:57 AM)tony.bruegger Thx..of course not introduced til 2000 in US..wd be cdi engines...Anyone else out there have any ideas on an alternative mechanical rotary 5 cyl pump ??
Hi i have same engine. The ip was built by a friend of mine , from original pump. It is full mechanical, and works perfect.
OM662.910 aftermarket turbo
(10-20-2012, 04:57 AM)tony.bruegger Thx..of course not introduced til 2000 in US..wd be cdi engines...Anyone else out there have any ideas on an alternative mechanical rotary 5 cyl pump ??
Hi i have same engine. The ip was built by a friend of mine , from original pump. It is full mechanical, and works perfect.
OM662.910 aftermarket turbo
(10-21-2012, 03:07 PM)devton(10-20-2012, 04:57 AM)tony.bruegger Thx..of course not introduced til 2000 in US..wd be cdi engines...Anyone else out there have any ideas on an alternative mechanical rotary 5 cyl pump ??
Hi i have same engine. The ip was built by a friend of mine , from original pump. It is full mechanical, and works perfect.
you can use old audi 100 2,0 5 cyl TD engine IP, is mechanically pump,
or vw transporter 2,4 diesel 5 cyl IP.both are BOSCH, and they are almost bolt on on your engine.
(10-21-2012, 03:07 PM)devton(10-20-2012, 04:57 AM)tony.bruegger Thx..of course not introduced til 2000 in US..wd be cdi engines...Anyone else out there have any ideas on an alternative mechanical rotary 5 cyl pump ??
Hi i have same engine. The ip was built by a friend of mine , from original pump. It is full mechanical, and works perfect.
you can use old audi 100 2,0 5 cyl TD engine IP, is mechanically pump,
or vw transporter 2,4 diesel 5 cyl IP.both are BOSCH, and they are almost bolt on on your engine.
winequip_td
12-11-2012, 09:37 PM #7Does the mechanical pump bolt directly on or is there some sort of adapter plate? Would you happen to have a picture of the sprocket that goes on the pump. If what i'm thinking is correct this might be an alternative to mpumps on 60x engines.
First, Don't expect to be getting more than 8 or 9% more power from the pump because your pump has an 11mm piston in it and the biggest you can get is 12mm.
Secondly, I wouldn't attempt to go to a linear pump because it probably will not be able to provide enough bar to correctly pop the 2 stage injectors (without detuning the injectors).
You can replace the guts of your electronic VP pump into the body of a mechanical VE pump (like from a cummins 4B motor). I will be doing this soon on my motor and will share the results on this site.
The VW tdi sites are good resources...
http://forums.tdiclub.com/
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php
Joaquin Suave
12-19-2012, 08:08 PM #8I have the same motor in my Jeep Scrambler and have done quite a bit of research.
First, Don't expect to be getting more than 8 or 9% more power from the pump because your pump has an 11mm piston in it and the biggest you can get is 12mm.
Secondly, I wouldn't attempt to go to a linear pump because it probably will not be able to provide enough bar to correctly pop the 2 stage injectors (without detuning the injectors).
You can replace the guts of your electronic VP pump into the body of a mechanical VE pump (like from a cummins 4B motor). I will be doing this soon on my motor and will share the results on this site.
The VW tdi sites are good resources...
http://forums.tdiclub.com/
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php
(12-19-2012, 08:08 PM)Joaquin Suave I have the same motor in my Jeep Scrambler and have done quite a bit of research.
First, Don't expect to be getting more than 8 or 9% more power from the pump because your pump has an 11mm piston in it and the biggest you can get is 12mm.
Secondly, I wouldn't attempt to go to a linear pump because it probably will not be able to provide enough bar to correctly pop the 2 stage injectors (without detuning the injectors).
You can replace the guts of your electronic VP pump into the body of a mechanical VE pump (like from a cummins 4B motor). I will be doing this soon on my motor and will share the results on this site.
The VW tdi sites are good resources...
http://forums.tdiclub.com/
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php
What about injector nozzles? Most 4cy 1.9l tdi guys upgrade nozzles to bigger hole sizes and get decent power out of those crappy vag motors.
I have been also researching what this motor can do. Pump seems to be pretty good with 11mm head, just needs alot more fuel in shorter injection time. I think upgraded nozzles is the key here and supplying enough fuel to the pump.
Merc nozzles are DSLA148 P591 and I was asking if vag DSLA150 aftermarket nozzles would work. Can get anything from .216 to .341 hole size and .341 HFLO-X nozzles should be good for +300whp on 4cyl tdi.
It's only 2 degrees wider than merc nozzle, but would that mean anything? I'd really like to get over 300whp from this DI om602 before swapping for om606.
(12-19-2012, 08:08 PM)Joaquin Suave I have the same motor in my Jeep Scrambler and have done quite a bit of research.
First, Don't expect to be getting more than 8 or 9% more power from the pump because your pump has an 11mm piston in it and the biggest you can get is 12mm.
Secondly, I wouldn't attempt to go to a linear pump because it probably will not be able to provide enough bar to correctly pop the 2 stage injectors (without detuning the injectors).
You can replace the guts of your electronic VP pump into the body of a mechanical VE pump (like from a cummins 4B motor). I will be doing this soon on my motor and will share the results on this site.
The VW tdi sites are good resources...
http://forums.tdiclub.com/
http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php
What about injector nozzles? Most 4cy 1.9l tdi guys upgrade nozzles to bigger hole sizes and get decent power out of those crappy vag motors.
I have been also researching what this motor can do. Pump seems to be pretty good with 11mm head, just needs alot more fuel in shorter injection time. I think upgraded nozzles is the key here and supplying enough fuel to the pump.
Merc nozzles are DSLA148 P591 and I was asking if vag DSLA150 aftermarket nozzles would work. Can get anything from .216 to .341 hole size and .341 HFLO-X nozzles should be good for +300whp on 4cyl tdi.
It's only 2 degrees wider than merc nozzle, but would that mean anything? I'd really like to get over 300whp from this DI om602 before swapping for om606.
Quote:What about injector nozzles? Most 4cy 1.9l tdi guys upgrade nozzles to bigger hole sizes and get decent power out of those crappy vag motors.
I have been also researching what this motor can do. Pump seems to be pretty good with 11mm head, just needs alot more fuel in shorter injection time. I think upgraded nozzles is the key here and supplying enough fuel to the pump.
Merc nozzles are DSLA148 P591 and I was asking if vag DSLA150 aftermarket nozzles would work. Can get anything from .216 to .341 hole size and .341 HFLO-X nozzles should be good for +300whp on 4cyl tdi.
It's only 2 degrees wider than merc nozzle, but would that mean anything? I'd really like to get over 300whp from this DI om602 before swapping for om606.
WOW! Thanks for the info!
These motors were never brought into the US other than for military G-wagons. Thus finding ANY info here has been really hard. Please keep us informed as to how the new injectors work.
Joaquin Suave
12-24-2012, 11:27 AM #10Quote:What about injector nozzles? Most 4cy 1.9l tdi guys upgrade nozzles to bigger hole sizes and get decent power out of those crappy vag motors.
I have been also researching what this motor can do. Pump seems to be pretty good with 11mm head, just needs alot more fuel in shorter injection time. I think upgraded nozzles is the key here and supplying enough fuel to the pump.
Merc nozzles are DSLA148 P591 and I was asking if vag DSLA150 aftermarket nozzles would work. Can get anything from .216 to .341 hole size and .341 HFLO-X nozzles should be good for +300whp on 4cyl tdi.
It's only 2 degrees wider than merc nozzle, but would that mean anything? I'd really like to get over 300whp from this DI om602 before swapping for om606.
WOW! Thanks for the info!
These motors were never brought into the US other than for military G-wagons. Thus finding ANY info here has been really hard. Please keep us informed as to how the new injectors work.
I'm quite positive that the pump can be programmed via ECU to give enough fuel and change timing to work with any setup that is going to be run. The cylinder head is a bit mystery to me though...
Intake ports are so small that you can barely put one finger through it, and can see only half of the valve face because the port starts to get really narrow just before valve guide. Velocity must be really great at low rpm's and I think thats one reason because this thing makes so much torque above 1000rpm. Might have to push something like 30-45psi through that head to make any power.
I have one spare injector/nozzle assembly that I can send to anyone who knows a bit more of tdi tuning and see if different nozzles can be retrofitted to merc injector body. The shop that I have been dealing with also said they can bore out the oem nozzles to any size wanted. Thats one option but it was quite expensive solution, around $600 + new oem nozzles or old ones.
I'm quite positive that the pump can be programmed via ECU to give enough fuel and change timing to work with any setup that is going to be run. The cylinder head is a bit mystery to me though...
Intake ports are so small that you can barely put one finger through it, and can see only half of the valve face because the port starts to get really narrow just before valve guide. Velocity must be really great at low rpm's and I think thats one reason because this thing makes so much torque above 1000rpm. Might have to push something like 30-45psi through that head to make any power.
Quote:Might have to push something like 30-45psi through that head to make any power.
My turbo only produces .7 bar max.
As far as programming the ECU goes... I want to make my motor strictly mechanical because there is no one in the US that is capable of manipulating the ECU... AND... The motor is in my Jeep and I do a lot of exploring in Baja.
![[Image: bola_camp1.jpg]](http://www.overlandhardware.com/images/bola_camp1.jpg)
Joaquin Suave
12-24-2012, 04:07 PM #12Quote:Might have to push something like 30-45psi through that head to make any power.
My turbo only produces .7 bar max.
As far as programming the ECU goes... I want to make my motor strictly mechanical because there is no one in the US that is capable of manipulating the ECU... AND... The motor is in my Jeep and I do a lot of exploring in Baja.
I run Borg/KKK K14 turbo from OM606 at 1.8bar or so (wastegate almost shut, bad idea). Can't get nowhere near enough fuel above 1bar boost with the evry mod that cheats the quantity adjuster signal. If I try to increase the fuel the ECU detects problem and shuts down the car while mid pull.
It's also a really wrong way to increase fueling as it only does lengthen the injection duration. High EGT's and alot of black smoke is the result, and thats why I only do short pulls. ECU also goes into limp mode if it sees above 1.5bar boost for more than 15 seconds or so lol.
I need to get this thing running like it should...
Ahh, I see! I have 2 wheels for similiar exploration and fun stuff, but it sits mostly on one wheel while front wheel points toward the sky.
I run Borg/KKK K14 turbo from OM606 at 1.8bar or so (wastegate almost shut, bad idea). Can't get nowhere near enough fuel above 1bar boost with the evry mod that cheats the quantity adjuster signal. If I try to increase the fuel the ECU detects problem and shuts down the car while mid pull.
It's also a really wrong way to increase fueling as it only does lengthen the injection duration. High EGT's and alot of black smoke is the result, and thats why I only do short pulls. ECU also goes into limp mode if it sees above 1.5bar boost for more than 15 seconds or so lol.
I need to get this thing running like it should...
Quote:I need to get this thing running like it should...
Correction! We need to get this thing running like it should...
Merry Christmas "brothers in arms"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
![[Image: vestabule.jpg]](http://www.overlandhardware.com/images/vestabule.jpg)
Joaquin Suave
12-24-2012, 07:35 PM #14Quote:I need to get this thing running like it should...
Correction! We need to get this thing running like it should...
Merry Christmas "brothers in arms"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
01-02-2013, 04:21 PM #15Get a pre 2004 Rexton/Ssang Yong with a version of the turbocharged 2.9 litre OM602 engine built under licence. It has a mechanical inline pump with 5.5mm elements. It will bolt directly up to your Merc OM602
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
I have taken the om602.982 engine into a w201. My first Problem is, the engine don´t start. I think I need a Key for the engine immobilizer. Can anybody give me an advice? One possibility is to switch the W210 ECU to Sprinter ECU with Bosch number: 0281001496 or 0281001497 - is there any other way to weed out this problem?
If the engine runs sometimes I need 160hp and 400Nm with moderate EGT´s - which charger and nozzles did i need for this performance?
Is the mechanical SsangYong pump not keylocked? I thing it isn´t easy to find such pump in Germany...
I have taken the om602.982 engine into a w201. My first Problem is, the engine don´t start. I think I need a Key for the engine immobilizer. Can anybody give me an advice? One possibility is to switch the W210 ECU to Sprinter ECU with Bosch number: 0281001496 or 0281001497 - is there any other way to weed out this problem?
If the engine runs sometimes I need 160hp and 400Nm with moderate EGT´s - which charger and nozzles did i need for this performance?
(01-27-2013, 09:14 AM)orion Is the mechanical SsangYong pump not keylocked? I thing it isn´t easy to find such pump in Germany...
I have taken the om602.982 engine into a w201. My first Problem is, the engine don´t start. I think I need a Key for the engine immobilizer. Can anybody give me an advice? One possibility is to switch the W210 ECU to Sprinter ECU with Bosch number: 0281001496 or 0281001497 - is there any other way to weed out this problem?
If the engine runs sometimes I need 160hp and 400Nm with moderate EGT´s - which charger and nozzles did i need for this performance?
The ssangyong were indirect engines. You have direct injection engine now. You can't use inline pumps. I have same engine with mechanical pump. If you have interest ,i will give you an contact. He lives in Hungary.
OM662.910 aftermarket turbo
(01-27-2013, 09:14 AM)orion Is the mechanical SsangYong pump not keylocked? I thing it isn´t easy to find such pump in Germany...
I have taken the om602.982 engine into a w201. My first Problem is, the engine don´t start. I think I need a Key for the engine immobilizer. Can anybody give me an advice? One possibility is to switch the W210 ECU to Sprinter ECU with Bosch number: 0281001496 or 0281001497 - is there any other way to weed out this problem?
If the engine runs sometimes I need 160hp and 400Nm with moderate EGT´s - which charger and nozzles did i need for this performance?
The ssangyong were indirect engines. You have direct injection engine now. You can't use inline pumps. I have same engine with mechanical pump. If you have interest ,i will give you an contact. He lives in Hungary.
OM662.910 aftermarket turbo
I would not like to convert back to a mechanical System, i thing the ECU is the better way to get a harmonious running system. Have anybody an other idea to realize the ECU version?
O.k. the information about the indirect engine was very important - thanks. The Ssanjong Rexton 290 is very expensive in germany.
I would not like to convert back to a mechanical System, i thing the ECU is the better way to get a harmonious running system. Have anybody an other idea to realize the ECU version?
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