300sd 617 , swap to donor , 91350sd 603 ? please advise
300sd 617 , swap to donor , 91350sd 603 ? please advise
to start im coming from the , vw community . so my mecedes experience is limited to my stalking of forums tech references and mercedesource (excellent )tech vids . with that said im not new to engines vehicles or modifications . as long as i have a flo chart, manual the right tools and advice i get it done. im am no engineer . with all this said dont hurt my feelings fine STD members and veterans . remember there are no stupid questions just .....
my question/topic of discussion
what would be the better scenario , to swap a 617 from a 1983sd into a 91 350sdl . or the 603? into the 300 .
the 1983 is a daily i picked up w/short mi 124k , but it sat and was neglected . the drive train is fine clean and has a service history .
the simplicity of this motor appeals to me for obvious reasons .
but its a tatty exterior and interior thats leaky
im picking up a 91 sdl with top end issues but mint-er interior chassis etc things work
. what in your humble opinions would be the most harmonious solution to this wonderful problem .
im have read into the pump difference between these motors , and i understand the better design of a cross flow head . is the 5cyl going to return the best mileage/power increase per$ or the 6cyl , . what i have no clue of is the management differences and how much more advanced the monitoring systems on the newer engine have become.
i hope that i was able to present these ?s as to the point as possible , i look forward to any and all advice . even if its to swap the interior and tranny into the 83
thanks and also thanks to ;STD for proving an arena for all these great
topics
ok so im opening a can of worms im sure , especially being a noob to this forum .
to start im coming from the , vw community . so my mecedes experience is limited to my stalking of forums tech references and mercedesource (excellent )tech vids . with that said im not new to engines vehicles or modifications . as long as i have a flo chart, manual the right tools and advice i get it done. im am no engineer . with all this said dont hurt my feelings fine STD members and veterans . remember there are no stupid questions just .....
my question/topic of discussion
what would be the better scenario , to swap a 617 from a 1983sd into a 91 350sdl . or the 603? into the 300 .
the 1983 is a daily i picked up w/short mi 124k , but it sat and was neglected . the drive train is fine clean and has a service history .
the simplicity of this motor appeals to me for obvious reasons .
but its a tatty exterior and interior thats leaky
im picking up a 91 sdl with top end issues but mint-er interior chassis etc things work .
what in your humble opinions would be the most harmonious solution to this wonderful problem .
im have read into the pump difference between these motors , and i understand the better design of a cross flow head . is the 5cyl going to return the best mileage/power increase per$ or the 6cyl , . what i have no clue of is the management differences and how much more advanced the monitoring systems on the newer engine have become.
i hope that i was able to present these ?s as to the point as possible , i look forward to any and all advice . even if its to swap the interior and tranny into the 83 thanks
and also thanks to ;STD for proving an arena for all these great topics
thanks aaa , also as a nube did i post in the right forum ?
that was my general thoughts , but if the 603 is toast (bearings/ring) vs rebuild head . how many issues would i encounter electrically swaping the 617 into the newer chassis ? ECM communication etc . also the trannys would still bolt up correct ?
thanks aaa , also as a nube did i post in the right forum ?
I can't tell whether you are engine tuning, I might move the thread if not.
Very little issues, there's not much of an ECM once you ignore emissions. All your issues will be mechanical. Longer wheelbase (is this an SDL?), bigger driveshaft flanges, etc. You will have to use the matching transmission for each engine, they are not compatible.
I can't tell whether you are engine tuning, I might move the thread if not.
except the 120k baby of a motor . stilll needs a valve adjust and the basics before looking after a 60trim upgrade . and pump work . so it will be getting upgraded . im still to investigate the health of the sdl 's 603 . if its worth more than the cost of donor , or the value of the engine after repair then ill cannibalize the 603 and barter for everything i can with the 617s upgrades. Then with that figured whats the smoothest solution , swapping a newer interior into an older 83sd or a older motor into a 91sdl . thanks too for letting me know about the trannys will my tranny handle the new body /minimal weight addition? and will the lose of emissions equip/sensors trip check engine lights in the newer body ?
i like little issues much more that bigger ones . im either going to swap all the interior and usable/upgrade parts from the 91sdl into my 83sd . or swap the 617 into the sdl . so far ive done almost all the brakes in my sd and found all the rust issues . but the interior is shot out and things are starting to not work except the 120k baby of a motor . stilll needs a valve adjust and the basics before looking after a 60trim upgrade . and pump work . so it will be getting upgraded . im still to investigate the health of the sdl 's 603 . if its worth more than the cost of donor , or the value of the engine after repair then ill cannibalize the 603 and barter for everything i can with the 617s upgrades. Then with that figured whats the smoothest solution , swapping a newer interior into an older 83sd or a older motor into a 91sdl . thanks too for letting me know about the trannys will my tranny handle the new body /minimal weight addition? and will the lose of emissions equip/sensors trip check engine lights in the newer body ?
. Those heads go for quite a bit.Whatever trans you use will have no problem, the miles each happen to have on it matters more. There is no check engine light, nothing to trip up. Basically you plug in the glow relay, temperature gauge sensor, alternator, and that's the end of electrical.
Sell your 603 head and get a powered up 617 injection pump with the cash . Those heads go for quite a bit.
Whatever trans you use will have no problem, the miles each happen to have on it matters more. There is no check engine light, nothing to trip up. Basically you plug in the glow relay, temperature gauge sensor, alternator, and that's the end of electrical.
sorry for the in experience , im from the vw world . so instrument cluster issues scare me ! will my tach sig still register from the 617 in the harness. or will i need to swap out plugs ? its kinda baffl9ing me right now that i wouldn't need to be soldering anything
will the 603's relay burn out the glows on th 617 or just fire them quicker ? as far as thew injection pump , ive been reading along one of the threads on pumps and adjusting . its gotten into manifolds and im getting lost . ive had a few emails with prospective "Pump tuners " injection specialists . im still trying to find some idea of pricing actual answers as to what they do ? can you recommend anyone im not trying to "juice" a pump myself i might do some of the adjustments myself down the road , but id like to send of a pump and have a pretty new one show up that pumps 20% better hopefully . and thanks again for your input , this damn car sucks me in further everyday
so slap the 617 and tranny into the sdl figure out the drive shaft and have at it ?
i had considered selling off as much of the donor as needs dictate . but thats good advice aaa , thanks . then ill most likely sell the whole motor , but i want to diagnose it before i send it on to the next guy . and a tranny ! so thats good , i didnt realize that their was such a lack of "controls" or nannys on the newer 126's . will the 617s alternator supply enough juice ?
sorry for the in experience , im from the vw world . so instrument cluster issues scare me ! will my tach sig still register from the 617 in the harness. or will i need to swap out plugs ? its kinda baffl9ing me right now that i wouldn't need to be soldering anything will the 603's relay burn out the glows on th 617 or just fire them quicker ?
as far as thew injection pump , ive been reading along one of the threads on pumps and adjusting . its gotten into manifolds and im getting lost . ive had a few emails with prospective "Pump tuners " injection specialists . im still trying to find some idea of pricing actual answers as to what they do ? can you recommend anyone im not trying to "juice" a pump myself i might do some of the adjustments myself down the road , but id like to send of a pump and have a pretty new one show up that pumps 20% better hopefully . and thanks again for your input , this damn car sucks me in further everyday
so slap the 617 and tranny into the sdl figure out the drive shaft and have at it ?
The tach setup changed in 84. If you can rustle up an 84-85 engine intermediate plate you can retrofit the new setup onto a 617. Or you can swap the 83 tach into the 350, which would require some wiring work.
I would swap the 617 glow relay into the sdl, I think the glow indicator light (controlled in the relay) would have issues with a pin being unused.
As for pumps, what they do is switch the elements out to double the fuel output or more, the hp you get of course depends on the rest of your setup. 20% more hp should be easy with little but an EGT for when to stop cranking up the power. There are some pump guys from europe on the forum, pp_d and dieselmeken, I am guessing the price is somewhere in the range of several hundred euros. Course several hundred dollars instead for a stateside pump guy would save the currency conversion cost, but finding someone here remains an ongoing saga.
Yep go for it.
Dunno if the alternator is different, if push comes to shove you can just swap the pulleys over and bolt on the one you want.
The tach setup changed in 84. If you can rustle up an 84-85 engine intermediate plate you can retrofit the new setup onto a 617. Or you can swap the 83 tach into the 350, which would require some wiring work.
I would swap the 617 glow relay into the sdl, I think the glow indicator light (controlled in the relay) would have issues with a pin being unused.
As for pumps, what they do is switch the elements out to double the fuel output or more, the hp you get of course depends on the rest of your setup. 20% more hp should be easy with little but an EGT for when to stop cranking up the power. There are some pump guys from europe on the forum, pp_d and dieselmeken, I am guessing the price is somewhere in the range of several hundred euros. Course several hundred dollars instead for a stateside pump guy would save the currency conversion cost, but finding someone here remains an ongoing saga.
Yep go for it.
as far as the pump i had a few emails with a guy thqat said he could do some thing for me but the emails stopped when i asked about price and what the " massaging Program " involved ? ie what he would be doing to net me gains in flow . i also asked him if simply doubling the pumps supply presure and regulating the return would do any thing . similar tod a double cp3, as you would see on a pickup . i guess like a compound pump setup . alas no reply .
so essentially the block architecture is similar enough for me to get away with swapping the alternators ? you lost me with intermediate plate ? is this part of the bell housing? good info with the glow relay , you mentioned EGT ? i dont recognize this acronym to me that means exhaust gas temp .
as far as the pump i had a few emails with a guy thqat said he could do some thing for me but the emails stopped when i asked about price and what the " massaging Program " involved ? ie what he would be doing to net me gains in flow . i also asked him if simply doubling the pumps supply presure and regulating the return would do any thing . similar tod a double cp3, as you would see on a pickup . i guess like a compound pump setup . alas no reply .
The intermediate plate is the engine side of the bellhousing, it's removable. EGT is mostly what you think, an EGT sensor to make sure you aren't damaging things.
Sounds like you were talking to OM616, might be worth waiting to see if he comes up with anything.
You can't simply double the pressure, I'm not sure how to explain why though. The elements are what deliver the bulk of the injection pressure, there's one per injector instead of one pump supplying a fuel rail like on newer engines.
The alternator mounting points have stayed the same for awhile, with the two bolt holes in the casing. The electrical posts could be different.
The intermediate plate is the engine side of the bellhousing, it's removable. EGT is mostly what you think, an EGT sensor to make sure you aren't damaging things.
Sounds like you were talking to OM616, might be worth waiting to see if he comes up with anything.
You can't simply double the pressure, I'm not sure how to explain why though. The elements are what deliver the bulk of the injection pressure, there's one per injector instead of one pump supplying a fuel rail like on newer engines.
im get some exhaust work done so ill have them weld the bung and plug for now. inyo? any pluses or minuses on manifold vs turbine exit? as far as the pump , quite possibly ? i would love to hear back from him but im sure his time needs to be spent more profitably , being a specialist , rather than explaining the black arts to me
. so eagerly waiting is what ill be . its to bad fluid dynamics dont work like compounding gases ! i guess i was hoping to more than optimize supply and filtering with something like a mini "air dog" setup similar to the veggie pumps i guess . im sure this approach would allow you to delete the mechanical lift pump , if so , reducing drag on the cam in the IP while producing a regulated pressure constant and RPM independent ? does this logic apply .
thanks for the info on the block and plate , ill be ordering a servman shortly so as not to embarrass . i dig the egt gauge will be installing trans and oil as well im get some exhaust work done so ill have them weld the bung and plug for now. inyo? any pluses or minuses on manifold vs turbine exit?
as far as the pump , quite possibly ? i would love to hear back from him but im sure his time needs to be spent more profitably , being a specialist , rather than explaining the black arts to me . so eagerly waiting is what ill be . its to bad fluid dynamics dont work like compounding gases ! i guess i was hoping to more than optimize supply and filtering with something like a mini "air dog" setup similar to the veggie pumps i guess .
im sure this approach would allow you to delete the mechanical lift pump , if so , reducing drag on the cam in the IP while producing a regulated pressure constant and RPM independent ? does this logic apply .
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