OM617 into a Cherokee IP mods
OM617 into a Cherokee IP mods
Here's my real question here:
What should I do about the IP? I intend to own this vehicle for quite some time & understand that I will put alot of money into the IP. I will probably eventually go with a VNT turbo with either the double canister, or the electronic controller.
I want a strong output from this engine, so that I won't have to use stupid gearing. I'll probably end up with 3.73 - 4.10 ratios with 33" tires & an AX15.
I fully understand that a stock IP will not support that combo. Now, here's the question, as this will take about 6-8 months to get together, what should I do for an IP?
1. MW & hope for someone to do elements
2. M pump with no ALDA & tune the VNT for the fuel output
3. get a euro M pump & getting that modded
4. can an M pump from a 603/606 turbo (stateside) be modded for 617 use after bigger elements?
5. Any other suggestions?
6. Wasting my time & better off with stupid gearing? (Would still get pump modded with larger elements)
I am looking for a lower or broader torque curve (broader would be best). Can this be tuned at the IP & then set boost to clean up the smoke & put EGTs in a safe area?
I apreciate any help you knowledged folks can give...
Ed
yankneck696
03-05-2012, 07:27 PM #1OK, I understand the steering & track bar issues. I plan in using the Koch industries adapter setup.
Here's my real question here:
What should I do about the IP? I intend to own this vehicle for quite some time & understand that I will put alot of money into the IP. I will probably eventually go with a VNT turbo with either the double canister, or the electronic controller.
I want a strong output from this engine, so that I won't have to use stupid gearing. I'll probably end up with 3.73 - 4.10 ratios with 33" tires & an AX15.
I fully understand that a stock IP will not support that combo. Now, here's the question, as this will take about 6-8 months to get together, what should I do for an IP?
1. MW & hope for someone to do elements
2. M pump with no ALDA & tune the VNT for the fuel output
3. get a euro M pump & getting that modded
4. can an M pump from a 603/606 turbo (stateside) be modded for 617 use after bigger elements?
5. Any other suggestions?
6. Wasting my time & better off with stupid gearing? (Would still get pump modded with larger elements)
I am looking for a lower or broader torque curve (broader would be best). Can this be tuned at the IP & then set boost to clean up the smoke & put EGTs in a safe area?
I apreciate any help you knowledged folks can give...
Ed
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
03-06-2012, 04:10 PM #2well the 603/606 are both 6 cylinders I would think a om605 pump could be modded to fit
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
In answering the questions.
1.) Contact tomnik he may have something planned his sleeve for MW elements. But of course, this will take time to get his plans rolling
2 & 3.) Could be an option. M-pumps can be had and the elements are here or almost here from tomnik and dieselmeken respectively.
4.) Look on the top statement^^^.
5.) Run it and have fun!
6.) I would suspect the gearing issue would be trial and error. Hopefully someone like kmaser can give some suggestions with their experience with quest for lower range power.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
DeliveryValve
03-06-2012, 04:24 PM #3^^ It's easier to mount a Euro M-pump instead of fussing with a 602 pump.
In answering the questions.
1.) Contact tomnik he may have something planned his sleeve for MW elements. But of course, this will take time to get his plans rolling
2 & 3.) Could be an option. M-pumps can be had and the elements are here or almost here from tomnik and dieselmeken respectively.
4.) Look on the top statement^^^.
5.) Run it and have fun!
6.) I would suspect the gearing issue would be trial and error. Hopefully someone like kmaser can give some suggestions with their experience with quest for lower range power.
.
Gota love Mercedes Diesels!
.
Thanks, DV, I'll contact Tomnik to see what's happening. Maybe I'll check our EBAY Euro for something, too. FTE (on a different forum) has the cherokee with 4.10s & 30" tires & says. not to go any bigger without a gear change. But, he has only played with the ALDA. I may be able to do some pump tweaking with 33" tires to make it acceptable with a VNT, until I can get a good pump with larger elements.
I would eventually get stock 4.0 Jeep power (and a bit more) with the OM617 & a bit better mileage with good drivability. I guess 225 - 250 HP & around 300 FtLb of torque would suffice. I know I could go with a 4BTA, but am just too cheap to start with a $2000+ engine, when the whole setup (minus modded pump) will cost the same.
I really apreciate all input (even if you call me an idiot)...
Ed
yankneck696
03-06-2012, 05:28 PM #4Will, today at 3:16PM EST, I whacked myself in the head when I realized that.... Hey, I'll just divide the extra injector up between the other 5...LOL
Thanks, DV, I'll contact Tomnik to see what's happening. Maybe I'll check our EBAY Euro for something, too. FTE (on a different forum) has the cherokee with 4.10s & 30" tires & says. not to go any bigger without a gear change. But, he has only played with the ALDA. I may be able to do some pump tweaking with 33" tires to make it acceptable with a VNT, until I can get a good pump with larger elements.
I would eventually get stock 4.0 Jeep power (and a bit more) with the OM617 & a bit better mileage with good drivability. I guess 225 - 250 HP & around 300 FtLb of torque would suffice. I know I could go with a 4BTA, but am just too cheap to start with a $2000+ engine, when the whole setup (minus modded pump) will cost the same.
I really apreciate all input (even if you call me an idiot)...
Ed
I think you would be surprised how well it could run if properly tuned. Just 2 cents worth.
You might contact Toyfreak on this sight. His last posts in the IP tuning thread might give you some insight as to what is possible with a tuned "stock" IP in your application. He is making progress as he is learning.
I think you would be surprised how well it could run if properly tuned. Just 2 cents worth.
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
willbhere4u
03-06-2012, 06:24 PM #6Use the 6th injector to spray the manifold like a cold start on a gasser! lol
1987 300SDL 6spd manual om606.962 swap project
1985 300td euro 5spd wagon running
Will.... LOL
Ed
yankneck696
03-06-2012, 06:42 PM #7Thanks, OM616, if you think it's valuable, I shall check it out.... If it weren't for you, Toyfreak & many others wouldn't be close to where they are now. Hopefully, I'll give some useful input in the future...
Will.... LOL
Ed
Thanks,
Ed
yankneck696
03-08-2012, 06:02 PM #9Toyfreak, what gears & tire sizes are you running? I know you have the 42" tires & a street set...
Thanks,
Ed
I have 5.38's and running 315/70/17 BGF's for the street now. Driving around town is nice now and I can hold speed up a hill without dropping a gear and revving the crap out of the engine. I might have a chance to try out the 42's this weekend with the new IP settings.
After having my Jeep as my DD for almost 2yrs, I truly belive the 4.11's I had with the 30's was at the edge of being too tall and I had an auto, so a stick would be worse. When I advanced the IP timing, it made a big improvement on the low end. The motor itself is the limiting factor due to the short stroke. Comparing it to a cummins is way off, this motor was designed to spin faster so getting power in the low rpm isn't possible.
Any further input is greatly appreciated.... (Dieselmechen)?
Ed
yankneck696
03-13-2012, 07:37 PM #12Well,after weighing all of the options, I think I'll go for around 4.10-4.56 in gears. With liberal pump tweaks & a VNT turbo, I should be drivable on 33" tires. After a while I will definitely get a modded IP & go for broken... Gimme a few months, as the new job has me catching up right now. The Cherokee I wanted got sold very quick. I am also going to look into 3/4 - 1 ton axles, as my eventual goal is for a bulletproof rig & why do the axles 2 times?
Any further input is greatly appreciated.... (Dieselmechen)?
Ed
(03-13-2012, 07:37 PM)yankneck696 Well,after weighing all of the options, I think I'll go for around 4.10-4.56 in gears. With liberal pump tweaks & a VNT turbo, I should be drivable on 33" tires. After a while I will definitely get a modded IP & go for broken... Gimme a few months, as the new job has me catching up right now. The Cherokee I wanted got sold very quick. I am also going to look into 3/4 - 1 ton axles, as my eventual goal is for a bulletproof rig & why do the axles 2 times?
Any further input is greatly appreciated.... (Dieselmechen)?
Ed
If that's the case, might as well get something with a real frame.
(03-13-2012, 07:37 PM)yankneck696 Well,after weighing all of the options, I think I'll go for around 4.10-4.56 in gears. With liberal pump tweaks & a VNT turbo, I should be drivable on 33" tires. After a while I will definitely get a modded IP & go for broken... Gimme a few months, as the new job has me catching up right now. The Cherokee I wanted got sold very quick. I am also going to look into 3/4 - 1 ton axles, as my eventual goal is for a bulletproof rig & why do the axles 2 times?
Any further input is greatly appreciated.... (Dieselmechen)?
Ed
If that's the case, might as well get something with a real frame.
Ed
yankneck696
03-14-2012, 04:53 AM #14I would be connecting the subframes. The next option is a Durango. I really don't like them & they are too expensive for my cheap budget. Here in Floriduhh, Cherokees can be had real cheap & are plentiful. I missed the one with long arms, winch/bumper & on 33's with 4.11's by a few hours for cheap... I want a good DD & something that is decently capable for some light mud/sand & maybe a bit f trail riding in Ocala Nat. forest. No rock crawling or serious stuff here. Hell, the biggest hill for 200 miles is the local dump...
Ed
On another note: I dont think an OM617 has the power to break the D30/35 axles. I run 32x11.50's on my jeep with lockers front and rear. Haven't broken the rear D35 and have only popped two of the old style front short shaft U-Joints. I upgraded to the newer ABS axles with the larger U-Joint and haven't had issues since. I wheel my jeep pretty hard. (pics and vids on request)
Ed, what your talking about doing with your XJ off road, I could do in my 300D
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
03-15-2012, 03:01 AM #15All the trucks with frames are gay. I hate toyotas. There are not "subframes" on a XJ. There are Unibody rails that run the full length of the body. All that is needed is some reinforcement of the rails. Plenty of guys sell kits like this one: http://www.hdoffroadengineering.com/prod...ffener-set
On another note: I dont think an OM617 has the power to break the D30/35 axles. I run 32x11.50's on my jeep with lockers front and rear. Haven't broken the rear D35 and have only popped two of the old style front short shaft U-Joints. I upgraded to the newer ABS axles with the larger U-Joint and haven't had issues since. I wheel my jeep pretty hard. (pics and vids on request)
Ed, what your talking about doing with your XJ off road, I could do in my 300D
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Ed
yankneck696
03-15-2012, 03:35 AM #16Captain, I like to overbuild everything. It'll have 3/4 or tons under it. I have a set of Hummer beadlocks that have been waiting for a project for 5 years (FREEBEE). Also, you have never experienced Floriduhh mud, have you Sticky & slick as snot....
Ed
(03-15-2012, 03:01 AM)Captain America All the trucks with frames are gay. I hate toyotas. There are not "subframes" on a XJ. There are Unibody rails that run the full length of the body. All that is needed is some reinforcement of the rails. Plenty of guys sell kits like this one: http://www.hdoffroadengineering.com/prod...ffener-setWell, I wasn't insinuating he get a Toyota. There are many other good options that aren't unibodies. Personally, I don't like the fact that the frame structure is part of the body and would rather spend the money and time upgrading other things than the main structure of the vehicle. I guess you can say, I don't like wheeling a car.
On another note: I dont think an OM617 has the power to break the D30/35 axles. I run 32x11.50's on my jeep with lockers front and rear. Haven't broken the rear D35 and have only popped two of the old style front short shaft U-Joints. I upgraded to the newer ABS axles with the larger U-Joint and haven't had issues since. I wheel my jeep pretty hard. (pics and vids on request)
Ed, what your talking about doing with your XJ off road, I could do in my 300D
If you'd like a lesson on breaking your D30/35's, let me drive.
(03-15-2012, 03:01 AM)Captain America All the trucks with frames are gay. I hate toyotas. There are not "subframes" on a XJ. There are Unibody rails that run the full length of the body. All that is needed is some reinforcement of the rails. Plenty of guys sell kits like this one: http://www.hdoffroadengineering.com/prod...ffener-setWell, I wasn't insinuating he get a Toyota. There are many other good options that aren't unibodies. Personally, I don't like the fact that the frame structure is part of the body and would rather spend the money and time upgrading other things than the main structure of the vehicle. I guess you can say, I don't like wheeling a car.
On another note: I dont think an OM617 has the power to break the D30/35 axles. I run 32x11.50's on my jeep with lockers front and rear. Haven't broken the rear D35 and have only popped two of the old style front short shaft U-Joints. I upgraded to the newer ABS axles with the larger U-Joint and haven't had issues since. I wheel my jeep pretty hard. (pics and vids on request)
Ed, what your talking about doing with your XJ off road, I could do in my 300D
If you'd like a lesson on breaking your D30/35's, let me drive.
Ed
yankneck696
03-15-2012, 05:18 PM #18Heck, I've broken 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton, LC running gear & Toy running gear. I may be getting absolutely stupid in the near future. An acquaintence has a 94 800 series bucket truck that has an 8.3 & Eatons. Got wrecked in hurricane Charley. Old boss has a 56 or 57 Chevy firetruck..... Hmmm... Both could probably be had for scrap value.... Still a good chunk of change. 5Chevk cab on the Ford chassis & running gear... MASSIVE hudraulic winches front & rear... OK, back to the Cherokee....
Ed
Now for a short Hi Jack.
Attempt at the steepest hill around. Called suicide for that reason. Bikes have trouble making it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Eef8Yze9Q&hd=1
![[Image: 293935_246084492093007_100000743750007_8...9138_n.jpg]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/293935_246084492093007_100000743750007_864368_8179138_n.jpg)
![[Image: 295480_246084548759668_100000743750007_8...1515_n.jpg]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/295480_246084548759668_100000743750007_864369_2991515_n.jpg)
Heres my Mud Yank,
![[Image: 302641_290206481014141_100000743750007_1...2461_n.jpg]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/302641_290206481014141_100000743750007_1024028_670062461_n.jpg)
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
03-16-2012, 12:28 AM #19Well I'm sorry I wheel smarter, not harder. I have made it through the same obstacles other guys have broken on in front of and behind me. They call it finesse.
Now for a short Hi Jack.
Attempt at the steepest hill around. Called suicide for that reason. Bikes have trouble making it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Eef8Yze9Q&hd=1
Heres my Mud Yank,
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
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