Hi everyone, got a few questions about a N/A 300d
Hi everyone, got a few questions about a N/A 300d
I've been lurking for a little while and this place has given me some incredible ideas for my newest baby ( a 78 300d with 500,520 kilometres on the clock). Just wanted to run a couple of questions by the more experienced minds that live here.
Maybe I should give some info about the car. It had a brand new, out of the box engine put in at 500,000. I changed all the filters and the glow plugs when I got it about 3 months ago. There is some top end noise in the engine, so I'm fairly sure it needs a valve adjustment and fast, as it smokes heavily when it's cold. The guy who owned it before me clearly didn't share my newfound passion for it
For the record, I'm not looking to turn this into a drag car, I'm looking at maybe 200 to 250 horses as a final goal. It won't be driven hard very often, but I would love to be able to smoke a Commodore or Falcon or a ricer every now and then.
Ok, on to the questions (and there will be a lot of them!)
How do I tell which IP I have? I searched the forum but couldn't find out how, maybe I didn't look hard enough.
How are the turbo and N/A model engines different? As far as I know it's the nitrided crankshaft and valve stems? anything else that could turn into a problem?
The turbo manifolds are impossible to source in Australia, does anyone have any info about overseas purchases that turned out well?
I'm about to start looking at some forged pistons, maybe a custom set, to stand up to the extra heat and abuse the turbo will throw at the engine, is this a good idea or and expensive waste of time?
Will the stock gearbox survive the punishment of 230-ish horses if driven carefully?
Is there any more info available about modding the delivery valves, as that seemed to yeild a lot of extra fuel?
So far my plan stands as this:
Pull the engine and get all the internals done first, pistons, crankshaft, valves and anything else that is reccomended. Save up again
Order a manifold and turbo and save some more. Get a twin 2.5'' exhaust when I bolt the turbo on. Mod the DVs and put some bigger injectors with a higher pop pressure on. Put some 8mm elements into the IP. How does that sound? Anything I am clearly missing?Thanks a heap guys,
Dan
First up, Hi.
I've been lurking for a little while and this place has given me some incredible ideas for my newest baby ( a 78 300d with 500,520 kilometres on the clock). Just wanted to run a couple of questions by the more experienced minds that live here.
Maybe I should give some info about the car. It had a brand new, out of the box engine put in at 500,000. I changed all the filters and the glow plugs when I got it about 3 months ago. There is some top end noise in the engine, so I'm fairly sure it needs a valve adjustment and fast, as it smokes heavily when it's cold. The guy who owned it before me clearly didn't share my newfound passion for it
For the record, I'm not looking to turn this into a drag car, I'm looking at maybe 200 to 250 horses as a final goal. It won't be driven hard very often, but I would love to be able to smoke a Commodore or Falcon or a ricer every now and then.
Ok, on to the questions (and there will be a lot of them!)
How do I tell which IP I have? I searched the forum but couldn't find out how, maybe I didn't look hard enough.
How are the turbo and N/A model engines different? As far as I know it's the nitrided crankshaft and valve stems? anything else that could turn into a problem?
The turbo manifolds are impossible to source in Australia, does anyone have any info about overseas purchases that turned out well?
I'm about to start looking at some forged pistons, maybe a custom set, to stand up to the extra heat and abuse the turbo will throw at the engine, is this a good idea or and expensive waste of time?
Will the stock gearbox survive the punishment of 230-ish horses if driven carefully?
Is there any more info available about modding the delivery valves, as that seemed to yeild a lot of extra fuel?
So far my plan stands as this:
Pull the engine and get all the internals done first, pistons, crankshaft, valves and anything else that is reccomended. Save up again Order a manifold and turbo and save some more. Get a twin 2.5'' exhaust when I bolt the turbo on. Mod the DVs and put some bigger injectors with a higher pop pressure on. Put some 8mm elements into the IP. How does that sound? Anything I am clearly missing?
Thanks a heap guys,
Dan
(04-16-2009, 10:43 PM)Dan300d How are the turbo and N/A model engines different?Block, crank, rods, pistons, bearings, valves, cam, oil system, cooling system. About the only things that didn't change are the valve cover, oil filter housing, and cylinder head.
If it only has 520km on a new engine and its already running bad, what did the owner do to it? People don't usually spend $5000 on a new engine and sell it for a major money loss.
ForcedInduction
04-17-2009, 01:48 AM
#2
(04-16-2009, 10:43 PM)Dan300d How are the turbo and N/A model engines different?Block, crank, rods, pistons, bearings, valves, cam, oil system, cooling system. About the only things that didn't change are the valve cover, oil filter housing, and cylinder head.
If it only has 520km on a new engine and its already running bad, what did the owner do to it? People don't usually spend $5000 on a new engine and sell it for a major money loss.
It was the first owner that put a new engine in it, and I dont have the full story on why they sold it after, I guess it was a death though, as an elderly lady sold it on. The guy after that had it as a weekend car and the last guy I bought it off had it for three years or so and put nearly no k's on it.
So would that be a "don't do it" vote from you, forced?
Dan
Oh wow, I really should have read back through my numbers, it was new at 500,000 and has 552,000 on it now, sorry!
It was the first owner that put a new engine in it, and I dont have the full story on why they sold it after, I guess it was a death though, as an elderly lady sold it on. The guy after that had it as a weekend car and the last guy I bought it off had it for three years or so and put nearly no k's on it.
So would that be a "don't do it" vote from you, forced?
Dan
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Oil piston coolers. Kamel? I think has 6psi boost on his, no way are you going to get 230hp out of an NA engine. I wonder how much it could possibly cost to get a engine shipped over there? $600?
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
Another idea I had was to get a shop to make up some double thick head gaskets to decompress the cylinders a little so I could run a higher boost and more fuel without doing a whole heap of damage, or does that sound like a bad idea?
Thanks for the quick replies guys, I really appreciate your help.
Dan
What do you think an achievable figure would be winmutt? I figured that I would have to swap some engine internals, but it looks like it might be cheaper to just source a turbo engine from the start.
Another idea I had was to get a shop to make up some double thick head gaskets to decompress the cylinders a little so I could run a higher boost and more fuel without doing a whole heap of damage, or does that sound like a bad idea?
Thanks for the quick replies guys, I really appreciate your help.
Dan
I've been running 10 psi lately since I cranked my delivery valve holders for the past 2k miles now. So it's been about 8k I've been running a turbo on my N/A without a single issue. When I get a 617.952 lined up, I'll see how much boost this motor will take before kaboom.
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
Actually, the valve covers and oil filter housings are different. As are the heads, the turbo's had the smaller pencil type glow plug, our '78's have the big stupid loop type plug. Lucky for us, the one thing they share is the manifold bolt pattern.
I've been running 10 psi lately since I cranked my delivery valve holders for the past 2k miles now. So it's been about 8k I've been running a turbo on my N/A without a single issue. When I get a 617.952 lined up, I'll see how much boost this motor will take before kaboom.
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
(04-18-2009, 01:51 AM)kamel Actually, the valve covers and oil filter housings are different. As are the heads, the turbo's had the smaller pencil type glow plug, our '78's have the big stupid loop type plug.
Not quite. Look at a 617a head and you'll see it has large casting holes for loop plugs as well. The differnce is the later head is drilled and tapped for the smaller plugs. I've seen several euro 300D's with small plugs.
ForcedInduction
04-18-2009, 06:11 PM
#8
(04-18-2009, 01:51 AM)kamel Actually, the valve covers and oil filter housings are different. As are the heads, the turbo's had the smaller pencil type glow plug, our '78's have the big stupid loop type plug.
Not quite. Look at a 617a head and you'll see it has large casting holes for loop plugs as well. The differnce is the later head is drilled and tapped for the smaller plugs. I've seen several euro 300D's with small plugs.
(04-18-2009, 10:15 AM)Dan300d So was it really that easy kamel, just bolt on and it all works? Or was it a whole heap of trial and error to get something resembling decent results? Any idea how many horses you are getting out of the engine?
I popped the hood and the turbo fell in! It was incredible.
You're going to have fun. Make sure you have lots of kitty litter for the ammount of oil that will be on the ground. I don't know how many horses, but it certainly pissed off the fail-o-matic tranny, so you might get to experience the fun of a manual trans swap. Unless you got lucky and you already have one.
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
(04-18-2009, 10:15 AM)Dan300d So was it really that easy kamel, just bolt on and it all works? Or was it a whole heap of trial and error to get something resembling decent results? Any idea how many horses you are getting out of the engine?
I popped the hood and the turbo fell in! It was incredible.
You're going to have fun. Make sure you have lots of kitty litter for the ammount of oil that will be on the ground. I don't know how many horses, but it certainly pissed off the fail-o-matic tranny, so you might get to experience the fun of a manual trans swap. Unless you got lucky and you already have one.
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
That said, if I do happen to come across the right parts at the right price, I'd still turbo what I have now, just not run it anywhere near what I was hoping for. Thanks again everyone.
I'm starting to think that maybe I should find either a factory turbodiesel or an engine from one, so this project could move along really slowly while I scrape all of the money together that either of those options will cost. Thanks for the input guys, you probably saved me from ruining my car That said, if I do happen to come across the right parts at the right price, I'd still turbo what I have now, just not run it anywhere near what I was hoping for. Thanks again everyone.
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
Good choice. I should have done the same, but it's far too hilarious to smoke a ricer while sounding like a big rig.
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
Just out of interest Kamel, do you have any figures for how fast it goes 0-60 and 0-100? Oh yeah, you guys work in mph don't you? Any figures at all will do, i'll convert them online.So, were you furtunate enough to have a manual equipt 300? If not, you may consider a swap. For some reason, the non turbo trans seems weaker.
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
Well, when it was stock I could pull 20 seconds with a tailwind. After fuel adjustments, i was barely scraping 16. Turbo made it on par with a turbodiesel at 14. My speedometer stopped working shortly after adding the turbo and my GPS was stolen, so I haven't gotten any runs since I increased boost and fuel.
So, were you furtunate enough to have a manual equipt 300? If not, you may consider a swap. For some reason, the non turbo trans seems weaker.
'78 300D, OM617.912: 4spd manual, TB03 at 10PSI, 26*BTDC, DV's turned, HVAC, emissions system removed, e-fan, short ram, 3" downpipe to straight exhaust, W126 Bendix brakes, MR2 Spyder seats. 2890lbs
. I was combing through the old discussions here and I've pretty much set on a five year plan which is gonna involve a factory turbo engine being ripped appart and copping some stronger internals, a pair of turbos hanging off the side in series pushing maybe 45psi, a myna pump and a huge straight thru exhaust. All of that mated up to one of the v12 automatic gearboxes that were mentioned a long while back (I think they are the 722.6 trannies?). then find some very stiff springs so I can still rock the steelies and keep it looking like a sleeper. I'm hoping this will get me in about the 350-400hp zone. Then I just have to convince the local authorities that it's all for towing power 
No, not fortunate at all, I'm stuck with the auto. I was combing through the old discussions here and I've pretty much set on a five year plan which is gonna involve a factory turbo engine being ripped appart and copping some stronger internals, a pair of turbos hanging off the side in series pushing maybe 45psi, a myna pump and a huge straight thru exhaust. All of that mated up to one of the v12 automatic gearboxes that were mentioned a long while back (I think they are the 722.6 trannies?). then find some very stiff springs so I can still rock the steelies and keep it looking like a sleeper. I'm hoping this will get me in about the 350-400hp zone. Then I just have to convince the local authorities that it's all for towing power
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