Engine problems, om617 turbo won't run properly
Engine problems, om617 turbo won't run properly
But the engine won't run properly. To start it, I need to hold the throttle-leaver out and rev it. After a short while, I can slooowly let the leaver go and it will run by itself.
If I press the throttle pedal or move the leaver to rev it from idle, it dies.
When it is on like 1500rpm and I rev it a little up and down, it also dies.
Does anyone know what it might be?
I'm also having problems locating the right place for all of the vacuum-lines, so maybe they are wrong?
The blue/brown and brown lines are for engine stop, but which of them should go on top and bottom of the shutoff valve?
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
The engine is in the car, everything is connected and blablabla.
But the engine won't run properly. To start it, I need to hold the throttle-leaver out and rev it. After a short while, I can slooowly let the leaver go and it will run by itself.
If I press the throttle pedal or move the leaver to rev it from idle, it dies.
When it is on like 1500rpm and I rev it a little up and down, it also dies.
Does anyone know what it might be?
I'm also having problems locating the right place for all of the vacuum-lines, so maybe they are wrong?
The blue/brown and brown lines are for engine stop, but which of them should go on top and bottom of the shutoff valve?
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
A quick test would be to get the car running and pull the vacuum line that comes from the back of the injection pump (at the top of a metal cylinder on the back plate)
If the running improves, you have found the answer, or at least a big part of it.
However, concerning the "blablablabla"... who hooked the motor up and was it out for service?
Is it smoking?
Is it properly timed?
What else do you know about it?
totaldisaster
06-11-2011, 11:42 PM #2It is quite possible that some vacuum connections are on wrong and choking the fuel supply.
A quick test would be to get the car running and pull the vacuum line that comes from the back of the injection pump (at the top of a metal cylinder on the back plate)
If the running improves, you have found the answer, or at least a big part of it.
However, concerning the "blablablabla"... who hooked the motor up and was it out for service?
Is it smoking?
Is it properly timed?
What else do you know about it?
(06-11-2011, 11:42 PM)totaldisaster It is quite possible that some vacuum connections are on wrong and choking the fuel supply.
A quick test would be to get the car running and pull the vacuum line that comes from the back of the injection pump (at the top of a metal cylinder on the back plate)
this is the only vac line that has influence on running the engine (disconnected you can't stop it by the key).
the other possibility is poor fuel supply and/or air.
did you loosen the hard lines on the injectors and cranking until fuel is coming out?
are all the filters o.k.?
Tom
(06-11-2011, 11:42 PM)totaldisaster It is quite possible that some vacuum connections are on wrong and choking the fuel supply.
A quick test would be to get the car running and pull the vacuum line that comes from the back of the injection pump (at the top of a metal cylinder on the back plate)
this is the only vac line that has influence on running the engine (disconnected you can't stop it by the key).
the other possibility is poor fuel supply and/or air.
did you loosen the hard lines on the injectors and cranking until fuel is coming out?
are all the filters o.k.?
Tom
(06-11-2011, 11:42 PM)totaldisaster It is quite possible that some vacuum connections are on wrong and choking the fuel supply.
A quick test would be to get the car running and pull the vacuum line that comes from the back of the injection pump (at the top of a metal cylinder on the back plate)
If the running improves, you have found the answer, or at least a big part of it.
However, concerning the "blablablabla"... who hooked the motor up and was it out for service?
Is it smoking?
Is it properly timed?
What else do you know about it?
I pulled all of the vacuum lines, and there was no improvement.
Me and a friend hooked it up. I replaced the original NA om617 in my 300D with it.
It gives a good puff of smoke when it starts, and smokes a little when it manages to run. It smokes like a normal om617 turbo would.
Regarding the timing; it did run good on a pallet, before we put it in the car.
I know it came from a 83 300TDT. The TDT was considered not road legal because of rust. After that, it sat in a forest for 2 years before we took it home two weeks ago, and got it running on the pallet.
Thanks for the reply!
(06-12-2011, 06:49 AM)tomnik this is the only vac line that has influence on running the engine (disconnected you can't stop it by the key).
the other possibility is poor fuel supply and/or air.
did you loosen the hard lines on the injectors and cranking until fuel is coming out?
are all the filters o.k.?
Tom
Thanks for the reply.
The filters are new. I suspect that it might be air and/or bad supply too. When pumping with the handpump, it pushes diesel through the return line, from the filter and towards the injectors. Isn't it supposed to go the other way?
We have tried bleeding the system with the hard lines disconnected, but it's still the same.
The engine stops if we move the throttle linkage/stop lever quickly, an example is when we try revving it.
This is from when it was sitting on the pallet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhpbSghxTmQ
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
(06-11-2011, 11:42 PM)totaldisaster It is quite possible that some vacuum connections are on wrong and choking the fuel supply.
A quick test would be to get the car running and pull the vacuum line that comes from the back of the injection pump (at the top of a metal cylinder on the back plate)
If the running improves, you have found the answer, or at least a big part of it.
However, concerning the "blablablabla"... who hooked the motor up and was it out for service?
Is it smoking?
Is it properly timed?
What else do you know about it?
I pulled all of the vacuum lines, and there was no improvement.
Me and a friend hooked it up. I replaced the original NA om617 in my 300D with it.
It gives a good puff of smoke when it starts, and smokes a little when it manages to run. It smokes like a normal om617 turbo would.
Regarding the timing; it did run good on a pallet, before we put it in the car.
I know it came from a 83 300TDT. The TDT was considered not road legal because of rust. After that, it sat in a forest for 2 years before we took it home two weeks ago, and got it running on the pallet.
Thanks for the reply!
(06-12-2011, 06:49 AM)tomnik this is the only vac line that has influence on running the engine (disconnected you can't stop it by the key).
the other possibility is poor fuel supply and/or air.
did you loosen the hard lines on the injectors and cranking until fuel is coming out?
are all the filters o.k.?
Tom
Thanks for the reply.
The filters are new. I suspect that it might be air and/or bad supply too. When pumping with the handpump, it pushes diesel through the return line, from the filter and towards the injectors. Isn't it supposed to go the other way?
We have tried bleeding the system with the hard lines disconnected, but it's still the same.
The engine stops if we move the throttle linkage/stop lever quickly, an example is when we try revving it.
This is from when it was sitting on the pallet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhpbSghxTmQ
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
injectors/filters/lift pump/timing/...
How did you fuel feed it on the pallet?
Do the same feeding now on the car....
Stupid question: did you assemble the linkage from pedal to IP correctly?
Do you also have these issues when you directly play on the (disconnected) lever on the injection pump?
Tom
did you touch the filters or anything related to your current issue after it ran on the pallet?
injectors/filters/lift pump/timing/...
How did you fuel feed it on the pallet?
Do the same feeding now on the car....
Stupid question: did you assemble the linkage from pedal to IP correctly?
Do you also have these issues when you directly play on the (disconnected) lever on the injection pump?
Tom
(06-12-2011, 03:58 PM)tomnik did you touch the filters or anything related to your current issue after it ran on the pallet?
injectors/filters/lift pump/timing/...
How did you fuel feed it on the pallet?
Do the same feeding now on the car....
Stupid question: did you assemble the linkage from pedal to IP correctly?
Do you also have these issues when you directly play on the (disconnected) lever on the injection pump?
Tom
I had to disconnect the small filter, but that's about it. Everything else is how it was.
On the pallet, it sucked fuel from a 1.5 liter bottle.
After adjusting the idle up, it's running by itself. It still dies sometimes when I rev it and let off the pedal quickly. Sometimes it manages to get the rpms back up, in order to idle, but not all the time.
The full load nut/bolt/screw has been adjusted, but not anything else.. I removed the alda, but put it back on, when trying to find out what the problem was.
I'll try driving it, and see how it responds to that. Maybe it's good for it, to be put under some load.
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
(06-12-2011, 03:58 PM)tomnik did you touch the filters or anything related to your current issue after it ran on the pallet?
injectors/filters/lift pump/timing/...
How did you fuel feed it on the pallet?
Do the same feeding now on the car....
Stupid question: did you assemble the linkage from pedal to IP correctly?
Do you also have these issues when you directly play on the (disconnected) lever on the injection pump?
Tom
I had to disconnect the small filter, but that's about it. Everything else is how it was.
On the pallet, it sucked fuel from a 1.5 liter bottle.
After adjusting the idle up, it's running by itself. It still dies sometimes when I rev it and let off the pedal quickly. Sometimes it manages to get the rpms back up, in order to idle, but not all the time.
The full load nut/bolt/screw has been adjusted, but not anything else.. I removed the alda, but put it back on, when trying to find out what the problem was.
I'll try driving it, and see how it responds to that. Maybe it's good for it, to be put under some load.
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
What is different,engine in car ,on pallet, Vac.lines,poss throttle position, (pump must not be held open by linkage ) poss fuel quality and or quantity, exhaust system.YES ,exhaust can become very restricted. Other things to ck. main fuel pump check valves,Worn spot in injection pump idle position, slightly tight engine valves,egr sticking. Good luck!
(06-12-2011, 11:23 PM)Hercules What is different,engine in car ,on pallet, Vac.lines,poss throttle position, (pump must not be held open by linkage ) poss fuel quality and or quantity, exhaust system.YES ,exhaust can become very restricted. Other things to ck. main fuel pump check valves,Worn spot in injection pump idle position, slightly tight engine valves,egr sticking. Good luck!
Vacuum-lines: Makes no difference if they're on or off.
Throttle position: It's possible that it's one part of the problem.
Fuel quality/quantity: Hum, no. Atleast it shouldn't be _worse_ with engine in the car.
Exhaust: I have a 2.75" straight pipe.
I googled the main problem, and I found this:
Quote:I had the same problem.It was the throttle valve inside the IP.You have to take the top off the IP and remove the linkage to get to the valve.I was able to tell that there was a problem with it because if you tried to move it from the closed position it was a little sticky.When you let of the gas it slams the valve to the closed position and cannot get it back open soon enough and the engine dies.
A possibility?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5oXee10s14
Moovie. See how it stalls after rev?
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
(06-12-2011, 11:23 PM)Hercules What is different,engine in car ,on pallet, Vac.lines,poss throttle position, (pump must not be held open by linkage ) poss fuel quality and or quantity, exhaust system.YES ,exhaust can become very restricted. Other things to ck. main fuel pump check valves,Worn spot in injection pump idle position, slightly tight engine valves,egr sticking. Good luck!
Vacuum-lines: Makes no difference if they're on or off.
Throttle position: It's possible that it's one part of the problem.
Fuel quality/quantity: Hum, no. Atleast it shouldn't be _worse_ with engine in the car.
Exhaust: I have a 2.75" straight pipe.
I googled the main problem, and I found this:
Quote:I had the same problem.It was the throttle valve inside the IP.You have to take the top off the IP and remove the linkage to get to the valve.I was able to tell that there was a problem with it because if you tried to move it from the closed position it was a little sticky.When you let of the gas it slams the valve to the closed position and cannot get it back open soon enough and the engine dies.
A possibility?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5oXee10s14
Moovie. See how it stalls after rev?
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
But the stall-problem persists.
I did replace the supply pump, and it was still the same. I pulled off the big filter and filled it up with two stroke oil, to lube the pump. It smoked less and seemed to run nicer (placebo?), but it still has the stall problem.
Before we adjusted the idle speed and bump correctly, it revved quite high when I put it in gear.
When I put it in gear now, it stalls.
I have however discovered that when it's running, there are small bubbles coming out between a couple of the injectors and the head. Can something like that cause the stalling problem?
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
The idle is now smooth.
But the stall-problem persists.
I did replace the supply pump, and it was still the same. I pulled off the big filter and filled it up with two stroke oil, to lube the pump. It smoked less and seemed to run nicer (placebo?), but it still has the stall problem.
Before we adjusted the idle speed and bump correctly, it revved quite high when I put it in gear.
When I put it in gear now, it stalls.
I have however discovered that when it's running, there are small bubbles coming out between a couple of the injectors and the head. Can something like that cause the stalling problem?
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
Good luck.
No,Can not, Try backing out idle damper pin 4-5 turns ,If adjusted in too far can cause binding of throttle linkage in pump,can cause stalling ,jumping of engine. Did you adj. idle with linkage off, making sure pump throttle is resting on stop.
Good luck.
I've also seen people converting to cable, is that something I should do instead?
Anyway, let's say I rev it to 3500rpm, lift my foot off the pedal, and press it again. That makes it stall. The slightest lift of my foot, is detected by the uber sensitive stall-problem.
By the way. Is there supposed to be an air-pocket in the pre pump fuel filter? The air isn't going in to the hose to the pre pump, it's not that big. I just thought I should ask. It's better to ask a stupid question and be a fool for 5 minutes, than not asking and be a fool for the rest of my life.
And what is the differences between the NA and turbo injectors?
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
I'll try disconnecting the linkage tomorrow, and run the engine. Is there any DIY for the linkage stuff? I have no experience with it, really.
I've also seen people converting to cable, is that something I should do instead?
Anyway, let's say I rev it to 3500rpm, lift my foot off the pedal, and press it again. That makes it stall. The slightest lift of my foot, is detected by the uber sensitive stall-problem.
By the way. Is there supposed to be an air-pocket in the pre pump fuel filter? The air isn't going in to the hose to the pre pump, it's not that big. I just thought I should ask. It's better to ask a stupid question and be a fool for 5 minutes, than not asking and be a fool for the rest of my life.
And what is the differences between the NA and turbo injectors?
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
If that doesn't bring results, I'll try replacing the IP. My parts-car is a 300D non turbo, with an M pump. That non turbo pump will have to work, just to get it running, and to be absolutely sure the engines problem is the pump. When that is done, I can get a M-pump from a TDT, and see if I send it to mynä, or just turn it all the way up on stock internals.
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
My plan this week is to fill the screw-on fuel filter with ATF-oil and crank that through the IP. The ATF-oil will both clean and lubricate, as well as being able to burn in the engine.
If that doesn't bring results, I'll try replacing the IP. My parts-car is a 300D non turbo, with an M pump. That non turbo pump will have to work, just to get it running, and to be absolutely sure the engines problem is the pump. When that is done, I can get a M-pump from a TDT, and see if I send it to mynä, or just turn it all the way up on stock internals.
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
I replaced the IP, and now it's running smooth as hell.
Still waiting for the gasket between the oil filter and block, so I haven't tried driving it yet. But so far, so good
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
Sorry I haven't updated this thread.
I replaced the IP, and now it's running smooth as hell.
Still waiting for the gasket between the oil filter and block, so I haven't tried driving it yet. But so far, so good
-rolfi
1980 Mercedes-Benz 300D (US-spec)
+BMW E12, E21, E28, E30 and E32
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