Changing a OM602.983 Electronic Pump to Mechanical Pump
Changing a OM602.983 Electronic Pump to Mechanical Pump
I've read the Tuning / Engine section to 20 pages deep...so please don't flame on me if I've missed an obvious thread.
I have an OM602.983 (OM602 DE2.9LA) and want to change it to a purely mechanical pump. I have developed 2 options...
#1: I have purchased an Audi VE Pump. For all you Guru's out there, YES it rotates in the wrong direction, but the "top end" can be swapped for the electronic control unit on my current pump. This is by far the easiest option, but limits the amount of fuel that I can "shove" into the cylinders. I don't like this option because I'd like to keep the whole "electro-unit" intact, if I had to "back-pedal".
#2: I have recently purchased a OM602.911 (2.5L NA)motor so that I could rob the pump from it. The mounting is identical to the VE pump and the lines actually clear the intake manifold! I would have to sweat off the compression tips and fit the larger "nuts", but that is no "biggie" for me.
I am inclined to go with option #2 because I could get 7mm or 7.5mm elements for the "M" pump and get more ZING. My only concern is that the OM602.983 injectors require more bar than the earlier versions of the OM602 (135 bar for turbo).
Being a diesel "greenhorn"...I'd love to get some input from you "wizzened ones"!
Joaquin Suave
02-27-2011, 08:00 PM #1Hi guys!
I've read the Tuning / Engine section to 20 pages deep...so please don't flame on me if I've missed an obvious thread.
I have an OM602.983 (OM602 DE2.9LA) and want to change it to a purely mechanical pump. I have developed 2 options...
#1: I have purchased an Audi VE Pump. For all you Guru's out there, YES it rotates in the wrong direction, but the "top end" can be swapped for the electronic control unit on my current pump. This is by far the easiest option, but limits the amount of fuel that I can "shove" into the cylinders. I don't like this option because I'd like to keep the whole "electro-unit" intact, if I had to "back-pedal".
#2: I have recently purchased a OM602.911 (2.5L NA)motor so that I could rob the pump from it. The mounting is identical to the VE pump and the lines actually clear the intake manifold! I would have to sweat off the compression tips and fit the larger "nuts", but that is no "biggie" for me.
I am inclined to go with option #2 because I could get 7mm or 7.5mm elements for the "M" pump and get more ZING. My only concern is that the OM602.983 injectors require more bar than the earlier versions of the OM602 (135 bar for turbo).
Being a diesel "greenhorn"...I'd love to get some input from you "wizzened ones"!
Why would the Audi rotate backwards, is it run off the rear of the cam like the 6cyl VW/Volvo?
ForcedInduction
02-27-2011, 09:02 PM
#2
M pump won't mount to the VE flange, check the mounting points. It also won't have the timer in the chain sprocket since the VE adjusts injection timing internally, you'd have to swap that too.
Why would the Audi rotate backwards, is it run off the rear of the cam like the 6cyl VW/Volvo?
Quote:Why would the Audi rotate backwards, is it run off the rear of the cam like the 6cyl VW/Volvo?
Oops! The pump was from an Alfa : VE5/10E2150L189 . I bought it a few years ago and then got burried in other "motorhead" projects (re-motoring my Ford F700 4x4).
Quote:M pump won't mount to the VE flange, check the mounting points. It also won't have the timer in the chain sprocket since the VE adjusts injection timing internally, you'd have to swap that too
The mounting bolt locations "look" identical, but its kind of hard to get my calipers between the pump and the intake manifold. I also have the pulley for the PE5 and it has what looks like a centrifugal counterwieght system...that must be the timer.
What is your feeling about performance? Would the PE pump deliver me more HP?
Joaquin Suave
02-28-2011, 12:25 PM #3Quote:Why would the Audi rotate backwards, is it run off the rear of the cam like the 6cyl VW/Volvo?
Oops! The pump was from an Alfa : VE5/10E2150L189 . I bought it a few years ago and then got burried in other "motorhead" projects (re-motoring my Ford F700 4x4).
Quote:M pump won't mount to the VE flange, check the mounting points. It also won't have the timer in the chain sprocket since the VE adjusts injection timing internally, you'd have to swap that too
The mounting bolt locations "look" identical, but its kind of hard to get my calipers between the pump and the intake manifold. I also have the pulley for the PE5 and it has what looks like a centrifugal counterwieght system...that must be the timer.
What is your feeling about performance? Would the PE pump deliver me more HP?
(02-28-2011, 12:25 PM)Joaquin SuaveQuote:Why would the Audi rotate backwards, is it run off the rear of the cam like the 6cyl VW/Volvo?
Oops! The pump was from an Alfa : VE5/10E2150L189 . I bought it a few years ago and then got burried in other "motorhead" projects (re-motoring my Ford F700 4x4).
Quote:M pump won't mount to the VE flange, check the mounting points. It also won't have the timer in the chain sprocket since the VE adjusts injection timing internally, you'd have to swap that too
The mounting bolt locations "look" identical, but its kind of hard to get my calipers between the pump and the intake manifold. I also have the pulley for the PE5 and it has what looks like a centrifugal counterwieght system...that must be the timer.
What is your feeling about performance? Would the PE pump deliver me more HP?
M pump + sprocket fit st. on...if tuning, advance can be increased by grinding stop edge .5mm = 1 deg more advance.Injectors may need reset for lower pressure.Or use VW 5 cyl rotary,get more fuel in than unmod M.
Turbofarmer
10-05-2011, 12:41 PM #4(02-28-2011, 12:25 PM)Joaquin SuaveQuote:Why would the Audi rotate backwards, is it run off the rear of the cam like the 6cyl VW/Volvo?
Oops! The pump was from an Alfa : VE5/10E2150L189 . I bought it a few years ago and then got burried in other "motorhead" projects (re-motoring my Ford F700 4x4).
Quote:M pump won't mount to the VE flange, check the mounting points. It also won't have the timer in the chain sprocket since the VE adjusts injection timing internally, you'd have to swap that too
The mounting bolt locations "look" identical, but its kind of hard to get my calipers between the pump and the intake manifold. I also have the pulley for the PE5 and it has what looks like a centrifugal counterwieght system...that must be the timer.
What is your feeling about performance? Would the PE pump deliver me more HP?
M pump + sprocket fit st. on...if tuning, advance can be increased by grinding stop edge .5mm = 1 deg more advance.Injectors may need reset for lower pressure.Or use VW 5 cyl rotary,get more fuel in than unmod M.
Quote:Injectors may need reset for lower pressure.
Now that I am progressing on this project I am starting to get concerned with the ability of the M-pumps ability to put out enough pressure (500 bar max.) for the dual stage injectors (0 432 193 768) with a "pop-off" of 190 bar. I am aware the a typical injector for a M-pump pop's off at 150 to 155 bar and the dual stage injectors can be adjusted down... But is this going to negate the performance of the direct injected motor, seeing is how the VE pump can output 1200 bar max?
Joaquin Suave
06-28-2012, 11:46 AM #5Quote:Injectors may need reset for lower pressure.
Now that I am progressing on this project I am starting to get concerned with the ability of the M-pumps ability to put out enough pressure (500 bar max.) for the dual stage injectors (0 432 193 768) with a "pop-off" of 190 bar. I am aware the a typical injector for a M-pump pop's off at 150 to 155 bar and the dual stage injectors can be adjusted down... But is this going to negate the performance of the direct injected motor, seeing is how the VE pump can output 1200 bar max?
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-2519.html
Here's a not quite related link:
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thread-2519.html
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