Prechamber Mod "Flame" Front

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01-30-2011, 11:24 PM #121

(01-29-2011, 05:11 PM)OM616 I think it is funny that the concept is condemned as blasphemy

Perhaps you should understand the discussion before using words with a definition that have no relation to what you are describing.

Quote:, and yet no one on the nay side of the discussion will comment on the report (from a member other than myself), of improved performance, reduced smoke, faster spool, quick starts, etc., on basically a stock engine after the holes were opened up.

Thats because there isn't. All you've got is anecdotal text, you haven't provided any form of empirical evidence to support your claims.

Quote:For the MB worshipers, why did MB increase the holes in the PC?

Technology. They understood their design was flawed so they updated it. In the 21 years since the only other changes they made to the design was to angle the injector and rotate the ball.

Quote:I didn't forget the gasket, the piston sticks up from the deck a bit, so to simplify, I went a bit generous with the TDC volume guestamate.

Do you have any actual data?

Quote:Remember this is a fun theoretical discussion, intended for entertainment

Incorrect. It is a technical discussion that could be interpreted by non-current members as factual data when in fact it isn't.

Quote:The higher pressure will increase the velocity of the gasses from the PC.

Incorrect. Gas velocity means nothing, you're reducing the volume of fuel used to do work in the cylinder.

Quote:Swirl is generated from gasses being expelled from the burn tube and then being deflected off the ball.

Incorrect.

Quote:But it does have bearing on the rate of pressure rise.

Also incorrect. The difference in PC pressure rise between stock and 100hp/L is zero because the inlet orifices will always, by definition, limit the amount of air allowed into the PC. That means the available air to burn will always be the same at a given RPM & boost pressure no matter the injected quantity.

Quote:So it hapens already

No.

Quote:The larger holes will flow more in less time so extra energy will blow out the larger holes, and that is the point.

Incorrect.

Quote:Agine, the engine needs to run well at power out puts and speeds well bellow full power, and they apparently do with larger holes.

Not based on actual data.

Quote:I did not read anything about the prechambers in the information regarding the 240D. But lets say that he did not touch them, that does not mean that there is not some efficiency that could be had from scaling the prechamber to the higher output.

Correct. He would lose significant low-end combustion efficiency which is required to spool up such an extremely oversized turbo.

Quote:The diameter of the burn tube stays the same, more air flowing out of it in the same period of time = faster flow that hits the ball and induces a stronger swirl.

Incorrect. Lets repeat for the fourth time; Larger orifice=lower velocity.

Quote:Falsified.

Corrected. Please don't post false information and attempt to present it as accurate, thats known as trolling.

(01-30-2011, 05:28 AM)Hercules What prechamber best to mod. (my opinion )1984Ca.or 1985Ca.and Fed.

There is no difference between the two, they are the same part number.

(01-30-2011, 11:21 AM)josha37 oh oh oh I want less smoke and more power! indoctrinate me.

Quote:I think my pump might be flowing a bit more fuel than stock, im blowing smoke even in the midrange with 15 lbs of manifold pressure.

Thats only because your non-turbo camshaft has valve overlap. Its allowing exhaust to be pushed back into the cylinder.

(01-30-2011, 04:41 PM)DeliveryValve Holy Shi-at. Am I reading that FI is moving from the hardline stance and states a certain modification of a pre-chamber will be a benefit!?

Increasing fluid flow efficiency is not pseudoscience.

(01-30-2011, 04:41 PM)DeliveryValve Interesting that you posted this. I always wondered what were the differences when I first saw it. It has a distinctive "open" neck. As opposed to the previous "collared" neck.
Here is a shot of a couple of pre-chambers one from a model year 1984 Cali 617 and the other from a Model year 1983 617 motor. Same number 617/03 stamped on both.

The larger diameter is to reduce carbon buildup between the injector heat shield and PC which affects long-term emissions. It has no effect on performance.

This post was last modified: 01-30-2011, 11:35 PM by ForcedInduction.