water injection gph?
water injection gph?
01-17-2011, 07:51 PM
#1
1,2,3 gph?
they also have a pump that says it's 250psi I think I would use that and all the little wires it comes with for $134
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/W...index.html
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
so, which of these nozzles should I use? my fuel, turbo and engine are all stock.
1,2,3 gph?
they also have a pump that says it's 250psi I think I would use that and all the little wires it comes with for $134
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/W...index.html
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
01-17-2011, 07:55 PM
#2
If two stage, 1st 1gph@4psi and 2nd 2gph@9psi.
Put the nozzle in the outlet of the turbo compressor housing (there is a flat spot for it). Do not put it in the intake manifold or you'll just flood #1 cylinder.
You'll need a minimum 3gallon container to last a tank of fuel.
This post was last modified: 01-17-2011, 07:59 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
01-17-2011, 07:55 PM
#2
If only one stage, 3gph set for 7psi trigger.
If two stage, 1st 1gph@4psi and 2nd 2gph@9psi.
Put the nozzle in the outlet of the turbo compressor housing (there is a flat spot for it). Do not put it in the intake manifold or you'll just flood #1 cylinder.
You'll need a minimum 3gallon container to last a tank of fuel.
01-17-2011, 08:12 PM
#3
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
led-panzer
01-17-2011, 08:12 PM #3I see you use 6gph total, although yours is very well distributed, how much is too much?
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
01-17-2011, 08:37 PM
#4
This post was last modified: 01-17-2011, 08:37 PM by ForcedInduction.
ForcedInduction
01-17-2011, 08:37 PM
#4
6gph is right on the edge, even with only 35% methanol I can hear the detonation rattle until the upper RPM range. I'm considering downsizing the 1gph port nozzles to 0.75gph (4.75gph total).
01-18-2011, 08:23 AM
#6
(01-18-2011, 08:07 AM)Walkenvol What specifically is accomplished by water injection.
Additional air cooling, additional fuel (methanol) and carbon cleaning.
ForcedInduction
01-18-2011, 08:23 AM
#6
(01-18-2011, 08:07 AM)Walkenvol What specifically is accomplished by water injection.
Additional air cooling, additional fuel (methanol) and carbon cleaning.
01-19-2011, 08:59 AM
#9
I have been googling for a formula or an online calculator but come up empty handed.
--
I guess it's fully explained here
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html
but I'm too dumb to read it all. Maybe someone can just sum it up. Or have a simpler guide. I guess the volume of the compressed air has a factor in it but that volume should be fairly static. The volume of the intake manifold, turbo housing and one open cylinder?
This post was last modified: 01-19-2011, 09:07 AM by larsalan.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
I had also meant to ask, without a pyrometer, how would you calculate the temp of pressurized air? That is like if ambient air temp is 10c/50f then what would it raise to under (x)psi?
I have been googling for a formula or an online calculator but come up empty handed.
--
I guess it's fully explained here
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html
but I'm too dumb to read it all. Maybe someone can just sum it up. Or have a simpler guide. I guess the volume of the compressed air has a factor in it but that volume should be fairly static. The volume of the intake manifold, turbo housing and one open cylinder?
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
01-19-2011, 02:12 PM
#10
-
when I try to use that calculator I get results saying that at 12 psi and ambient air temp of 10c the increase in temp reaches to 70c.
That would not be close to 100c. I thought we were trying to inject water/meth above the boiling temp of water?
This post was last modified: 01-19-2011, 02:16 PM by larsalan.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
shit, I have seen that one too. But I don't understand it.
-
when I try to use that calculator I get results saying that at 12 psi and ambient air temp of 10c the increase in temp reaches to 70c.
That would not be close to 100c. I thought we were trying to inject water/meth above the boiling temp of water?
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
01-19-2011, 04:05 PM
#11
My reading on the subject implies the benefit is to keep tempratures down to allow more fuel to be burned which would lead one to think this is more applicable to an engine with the ability to turn up the IP. I've read where you advocate the OM617 is limited by the IP's inability to deliver more fuel. Am I missing something beyond the added fuel of the methanol? How much power in your experience does this add and at what level of boost does your water injection kick on?
Hey forced,
My reading on the subject implies the benefit is to keep tempratures down to allow more fuel to be burned which would lead one to think this is more applicable to an engine with the ability to turn up the IP. I've read where you advocate the OM617 is limited by the IP's inability to deliver more fuel. Am I missing something beyond the added fuel of the methanol? How much power in your experience does this add and at what level of boost does your water injection kick on?
01-19-2011, 05:45 PM
#12
And that the way methanol or alcohol burns increases the amount of diesel that is burned. Scientific studies and all. That is to say that without the other type of fuel present diesel will be incompletely combusted.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
It's also claimed that the water you put into a cylinder is not compressible so you are decreasing the volume of the chamber and thereby increasing compression ratio.
And that the way methanol or alcohol burns increases the amount of diesel that is burned. Scientific studies and all. That is to say that without the other type of fuel present diesel will be incompletely combusted.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
01-20-2011, 07:48 AM
#13
(01-20-2011, 07:40 AM)Pliskin(01-19-2011, 02:12 PM)larsalan That would not be close to 100c. I thought we were trying to inject water/meth above the boiling temp of water?
The idea isn't to boil the liquid, its simply to absorb heat. That is, increasing the liquid temp from ambient to 70c and causing it to evaporate. Also, methanol's boiling point is 65c.
Quote:And that the way methanol or alcohol burns increases the amount of diesel that is burned. Scientific studies and all.That is false. There is no such "catalytic effect", its purely a marketing scam used by shady sellers.
http://www.labontemotorsports.com/ontrack/DIS_WP.pdf
this is a "scientific study" I was citing. There is even a picture so it must be true.
Also nice to know that meth boils at 65c
Plus the air is pressurized so that is part of the equation too. I guess I'll just have to be satisfied that at 4 psi we can start to vaporize water/meth.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
(01-20-2011, 07:40 AM)Pliskin(01-19-2011, 02:12 PM)larsalan That would not be close to 100c. I thought we were trying to inject water/meth above the boiling temp of water?
The idea isn't to boil the liquid, its simply to absorb heat. That is, increasing the liquid temp from ambient to 70c and causing it to evaporate. Also, methanol's boiling point is 65c.
Quote:And that the way methanol or alcohol burns increases the amount of diesel that is burned. Scientific studies and all.That is false. There is no such "catalytic effect", its purely a marketing scam used by shady sellers.
http://www.labontemotorsports.com/ontrack/DIS_WP.pdf
this is a "scientific study" I was citing. There is even a picture so it must be true.
Also nice to know that meth boils at 65c
Plus the air is pressurized so that is part of the equation too. I guess I'll just have to be satisfied that at 4 psi we can start to vaporize water/meth.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
01-20-2011, 08:05 AM
#14
Walkenvol. The Methanol is mostly there to keep the water from freezing in the winter, it's basically windshield fluid, not much else. See the wiki page for it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injec...engines%29
And do read his thread on the subject. http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/port...-1504.html
I wouldn't mind getting an STD..
Spaceraver
01-20-2011, 08:05 AM #14Larsalan: We inject water/methanol to cool the charge air as much as possible. If it were a gasser engine the methanol would add to the combustible mix and raising the octane number and thus aid the power. In a diesel it's prime job is for cooling and as Forced says, carbon cleaning. The Methanol is a secondary factor. The added water will not be in such a quantity that it is removing significant cylinder chamber volume, so the compression ratio does not go up by much.
Walkenvol. The Methanol is mostly there to keep the water from freezing in the winter, it's basically windshield fluid, not much else. See the wiki page for it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injec...engines%29
And do read his thread on the subject. http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/port...-1504.html
I wouldn't mind getting an STD..
01-20-2011, 10:04 AM
#15
here is a us patent for water injection systems. That claims to promote "complete combustion".
http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en&lr=&...te&f=false
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
^ but.....
here is a us patent for water injection systems. That claims to promote "complete combustion".
http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en&lr=&...te&f=false
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
01-21-2011, 04:18 AM
#16
I wouldn't mind getting an STD..
Spaceraver
01-21-2011, 04:18 AM #16Ill make the snide comment.. ^What he said. Patents are a good and a curse. Patents for the sake of patents alone is shitty, but to protect something you have spent years to develop and not have somebody steal the idea..
I wouldn't mind getting an STD..
01-22-2011, 11:19 PM
#18
Hope I won't be infringing on anyone's patent.
just kidding, how can you patent blowing water and alcohol into a combustion chamber? I do what I want.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Well something makes water injection advantageous. Good news just won a 150psi 'coolingmist' shurflo pump on ebay. $72. just need a few more things, check valve, nozzle, switch, tap a hole. Some good weather and free time.
Hope I won't be infringing on anyone's patent.
just kidding, how can you patent blowing water and alcohol into a combustion chamber? I do what I want.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
01-24-2011, 01:34 PM
#20
This post was last modified: 01-24-2011, 01:39 PM by led-panzer.
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
led-panzer
01-24-2011, 01:34 PM #20Called a Hobbs switch I believe. this site has some good information
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
01-25-2011, 12:06 AM
#22
(01-24-2011, 01:23 PM)Walkenvol How are these systems controlled by the boost levels?
Yes. Exactly what pressure depends on personal preference.
ForcedInduction
01-25-2011, 12:06 AM
#22
(01-24-2011, 01:23 PM)Walkenvol How are these systems controlled by the boost levels?
Yes. Exactly what pressure depends on personal preference.
02-02-2011, 03:40 PM
#24
(02-02-2011, 03:30 PM)Walkenvol Instead of injecting water and methanol, could compressed natural gas be injected into the intake manifold?
http://www.dualfuel.org/Dual%20Fuel%20Engines.htm
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
(02-02-2011, 03:30 PM)Walkenvol Instead of injecting water and methanol, could compressed natural gas be injected into the intake manifold?
http://www.dualfuel.org/Dual%20Fuel%20Engines.htm
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
02-02-2011, 05:37 PM
#25
(02-02-2011, 03:30 PM)Walkenvol could compressed natural gas be injected into the intake manifold?
No. Any raw fuel injection will cause severe detonation.
W/M works because the alcohol bonds with the water to form a stable bond (hygroscopic) until combustion heat vaporizes it to separate molecules.
ForcedInduction
02-02-2011, 05:37 PM
#25
(02-02-2011, 03:30 PM)Walkenvol could compressed natural gas be injected into the intake manifold?
No. Any raw fuel injection will cause severe detonation.
W/M works because the alcohol bonds with the water to form a stable bond (hygroscopic) until combustion heat vaporizes it to separate molecules.
02-02-2011, 10:15 PM
#26
(01-18-2011, 08:23 AM)ForcedInduction Additional air cooling, additional fuel (methanol) and carbon cleaning.You had in the past said your WI showed no drop in IAT or a corresponding drop in EGT's- when did that change occur and what precipitated it?
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
(01-18-2011, 08:23 AM)ForcedInduction Additional air cooling, additional fuel (methanol) and carbon cleaning.You had in the past said your WI showed no drop in IAT or a corresponding drop in EGT's- when did that change occur and what precipitated it?
2005 CDI heavily modified 1984 300TD - Myna pump/TMIC/enlarged PC's/HX30Super/W126 II front brakes/Vogtland springs/EGT +Boost gauges/H4 Hella's
02-03-2011, 06:54 PM
#28
(02-02-2011, 10:15 PM)MTUPower You had in the past said your WI showed no drop in IATI did not, I do not have an IAT gauge.
Quote:or a corresponding drop in EGT's- when did that change occur and what precipitated it?It never did.
ForcedInduction
02-03-2011, 06:54 PM
#28
(02-02-2011, 10:15 PM)MTUPower You had in the past said your WI showed no drop in IATI did not, I do not have an IAT gauge.
Quote:or a corresponding drop in EGT's- when did that change occur and what precipitated it?It never did.
02-03-2011, 08:02 PM
#29
or a corresponding drop in EGT's- when did that change occur and what precipitated it?
It never did. Endquote
How come you didn't get a cooling affect? Did you experiment with different meth levels? I know you put quite a bit of work into your system, was it all for naught?
yankneck696
02-03-2011, 08:02 PM #29Quote:
or a corresponding drop in EGT's- when did that change occur and what precipitated it?
It never did. Endquote
How come you didn't get a cooling affect? Did you experiment with different meth levels? I know you put quite a bit of work into your system, was it all for naught?
02-03-2011, 11:13 PM
#30
![[Image: File:Water_vapor_pressure_graph.jpg]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Water_vapor_pressure_graph.jpg)
Finally, I'm hot on the trail. 1 psi = 51.7149326 torrhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Water_..._graph.jpg
looks like 7psi is right under 400 torr. So, if the intake manifold is 80c that should insure water is in vapor form. I'm kinda scared to put liquid water into a cylinder. The hydrolocking and all. Also that water will expand to 1700 times it's volume when changing to gas from liquid!
How much does an oil like diesel expand to when it's combusted?
This post was last modified: 02-03-2011, 11:14 PM by larsalan.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Finally, I'm hot on the trail. 1 psi = 51.7149326 torr
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Water_..._graph.jpg
looks like 7psi is right under 400 torr. So, if the intake manifold is 80c that should insure water is in vapor form. I'm kinda scared to put liquid water into a cylinder. The hydrolocking and all. Also that water will expand to 1700 times it's volume when changing to gas from liquid!
How much does an oil like diesel expand to when it's combusted?
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
02-03-2011, 11:28 PM
#31
(02-03-2011, 08:02 PM)yankneck696 Quote:
or a corresponding drop in EGT's- when did that change occur and what precipitated it?
It never did. Endquote
How come you didn't get a cooling affect? Did you experiment with different meth levels? I know you put quite a bit of work into your system, was it all for naught?
It was for 13 rwhp
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
led-panzer
02-03-2011, 11:28 PM #31(02-03-2011, 08:02 PM)yankneck696 Quote:
or a corresponding drop in EGT's- when did that change occur and what precipitated it?
It never did. Endquote
How come you didn't get a cooling affect? Did you experiment with different meth levels? I know you put quite a bit of work into your system, was it all for naught?
It was for 13 rwhp
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
02-04-2011, 06:55 PM
#32
(02-03-2011, 08:02 PM)yankneck696 How come you didn't get a cooling affect?I never said I didn't. A reduction in IAT doesn't guarantee a reduction in EGTs, especially since the added heat of methanol combustion offsets most, if not all, of the cooled intake air benefits. "Free power", basically.
(02-03-2011, 11:13 PM)larsalan Also that water will expand to 1700 times it's volume when changing to gas from liquid!That has no effect on power. The water:air volume is far too low for it to produce any measurable increase in pressure.
(02-03-2011, 11:28 PM)led-panzer It was for 13 rwhpBingo. Anything else is bonus-points.
ForcedInduction
02-04-2011, 06:55 PM
#32
(02-03-2011, 08:02 PM)yankneck696 How come you didn't get a cooling affect?I never said I didn't. A reduction in IAT doesn't guarantee a reduction in EGTs, especially since the added heat of methanol combustion offsets most, if not all, of the cooled intake air benefits. "Free power", basically.
(02-03-2011, 11:13 PM)larsalan Also that water will expand to 1700 times it's volume when changing to gas from liquid!That has no effect on power. The water:air volume is far too low for it to produce any measurable increase in pressure.
(02-03-2011, 11:28 PM)led-panzer It was for 13 rwhpBingo. Anything else is bonus-points.
02-04-2011, 07:02 PM
#33
(02-04-2011, 06:55 PM)ForcedInduction [quote='yankneck696' pid='24151' dateline='1296781346']How come you didn't get a cooling affect?I never said I didn't. A reduction in IAT doesn't guarantee a reduction in EGTs, especially since the added heat of methanol combustion offsets most, if not all, of the cooled intake air benefits. "Free power", basically.
Ok.... I am surely not trolling here, but I wonder why you are against propane & natural gas injection, then?
Ed
yankneck696
02-04-2011, 07:02 PM #33(02-04-2011, 06:55 PM)ForcedInduction [quote='yankneck696' pid='24151' dateline='1296781346']How come you didn't get a cooling affect?I never said I didn't. A reduction in IAT doesn't guarantee a reduction in EGTs, especially since the added heat of methanol combustion offsets most, if not all, of the cooled intake air benefits. "Free power", basically.
Ok.... I am surely not trolling here, but I wonder why you are against propane & natural gas injection, then?
Ed
02-05-2011, 02:01 AM
#34
Severe cases (engine hot, ember of soot/coke on a valve, etc) you can have a DDT when the piston is just after BDC, or indeed with the intake valve still open.
It can be ok in some instances, but prolonged use can cause issues.
Then again, the stoichiometry of propane is such that it has a very narrow range of flammability in air, so if you were able to "tease" the mixture to right outside that range, you might be good.
Hope that helps explain the issue a bit better.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
Propane/NG will self-ignite slightly before the piston reaches TDC in most cases (due to temperature), so you have the engine compressing a burning mixture for a few degrees, then TDC passes, and the mixture "bounces" back.
Severe cases (engine hot, ember of soot/coke on a valve, etc) you can have a DDT when the piston is just after BDC, or indeed with the intake valve still open.
It can be ok in some instances, but prolonged use can cause issues.
Then again, the stoichiometry of propane is such that it has a very narrow range of flammability in air, so if you were able to "tease" the mixture to right outside that range, you might be good.
Hope that helps explain the issue a bit better.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
02-05-2011, 07:01 AM
#35
(02-04-2011, 07:02 PM)yankneck696 why you are against propane & natural gas injection, then?Detonation. Water/Methanol is a sable bond that won't ignite until after its vaporized and the bond is broken by combustion heat.
Propane, NG are raw fuels that will ignite as soon as the compression temperature is high enough or it comes in contact with the prechamber ball.
ForcedInduction
02-05-2011, 07:01 AM
#35
(02-04-2011, 07:02 PM)yankneck696 why you are against propane & natural gas injection, then?Detonation. Water/Methanol is a sable bond that won't ignite until after its vaporized and the bond is broken by combustion heat.
Propane, NG are raw fuels that will ignite as soon as the compression temperature is high enough or it comes in contact with the prechamber ball.
02-06-2011, 05:29 PM
#37
(01-17-2011, 07:55 PM)ForcedInduction If only one stage, 3gph set for 7psi trigger.
....
You'll need a minimum 3gallon container to last a tank of fuel.
So, will a 3gal/hr nozzle actually use 3 gallons when operating for 1hr?
I have wired and plumbed everything up and just as I tested the setup I went through a half gallon milk jug in about 10 miles.
maybe I will have to put a tank in the trunk. I had planned to jamb a gallon wiperfluid jug in the engine bay but, that might be too small.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
(01-17-2011, 07:55 PM)ForcedInduction If only one stage, 3gph set for 7psi trigger.
....
You'll need a minimum 3gallon container to last a tank of fuel.
So, will a 3gal/hr nozzle actually use 3 gallons when operating for 1hr?
I have wired and plumbed everything up and just as I tested the setup I went through a half gallon milk jug in about 10 miles.
maybe I will have to put a tank in the trunk. I had planned to jamb a gallon wiperfluid jug in the engine bay but, that might be too small.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
02-07-2011, 05:13 AM
#38
(02-06-2011, 05:29 PM)larsalan So, will a 3gal/hr nozzle actually use 3 gallons when operating for 1hr?Yes, more if you run 200+psi.
Quote:I have wired and plumbed everything up and just as I tested the setup I went through a half gallon milk jug in about 10 miles.You should pull the nozzle and make sure its atomizing and the valve is sealing when its off.
ForcedInduction
02-07-2011, 05:13 AM
#38
(02-06-2011, 05:29 PM)larsalan So, will a 3gal/hr nozzle actually use 3 gallons when operating for 1hr?Yes, more if you run 200+psi.
Quote:I have wired and plumbed everything up and just as I tested the setup I went through a half gallon milk jug in about 10 miles.You should pull the nozzle and make sure its atomizing and the valve is sealing when its off.
02-07-2011, 07:28 AM
#39
I have bought 2 - 2.5gallon jugs of water from the store and plan to put them in the trunk on the sides behind the wheel wells. Then we'll see just how much water is used. Sounds like with it running constantly like on the highway I will be using more water/hr than diesel/hr.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
your saying it would be siphoning? There is a check valve between the pump and nozzle that should take 6psi to open. The pump is 150psi
I have bought 2 - 2.5gallon jugs of water from the store and plan to put them in the trunk on the sides behind the wheel wells. Then we'll see just how much water is used. Sounds like with it running constantly like on the highway I will be using more water/hr than diesel/hr.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
02-07-2011, 09:06 AM
#40
(02-07-2011, 07:28 AM)larsalan There is a check valve between the pump and nozzle that should take 6psi to open.There needs to be a valve to stop flow. A check valve isn't suitable.
ForcedInduction
02-07-2011, 09:06 AM
#40
(02-07-2011, 07:28 AM)larsalan There is a check valve between the pump and nozzle that should take 6psi to open.There needs to be a valve to stop flow. A check valve isn't suitable.
02-07-2011, 09:47 AM
#41
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/p..._info.html
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/W...index.html
I guess it says it's 22psi to open. So, there should be no way a vacuum pulled on it by the stock turbo should ever let anything by.
That whole system is acting wonky. Sometimes it doesn't want to pump. gets air in the line or something. And I have a toggle switch that has a led in it and another led both wired in parallel but, neither bulb will light even though there is current running across them. Maybe they burned up. I thought an led could be wired into a 12v system no problem.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
this is the valve
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/p..._info.html
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/W...index.html
I guess it says it's 22psi to open. So, there should be no way a vacuum pulled on it by the stock turbo should ever let anything by.
That whole system is acting wonky. Sometimes it doesn't want to pump. gets air in the line or something. And I have a toggle switch that has a led in it and another led both wired in parallel but, neither bulb will light even though there is current running across them. Maybe they burned up. I thought an led could be wired into a 12v system no problem.
Rusted out beat down 300d turbo 82' -- RIP
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
02-07-2011, 03:56 PM
#42
yankneck696
02-07-2011, 03:56 PM #42Most LEDs are 3VDC (as remembered from years ago.) there should be a resistor inline for 12VDC.
02-08-2011, 01:03 AM
#43
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
02-08-2011, 01:03 AM #43Last time I connected a non 12v LED to a battery it exploded in my face!
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
02-08-2011, 05:37 AM
#44
ForcedInduction
02-08-2011, 05:37 AM
#44
Most LEDs have a built in resistor for 12V unless they are specifically listed otherwise.
02-08-2011, 09:46 AM
#45
(02-08-2011, 05:37 AM)ForcedInduction Most LEDs have a built in resistor for 12V unless they are specifically listed otherwise.
Not true, in fact it's the opposite.
Most LED's do NOT have a resistor unless it IS specified.
Automotive LED panel indicators MIGHT have them, sometimes they don't.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
(02-08-2011, 05:37 AM)ForcedInduction Most LEDs have a built in resistor for 12V unless they are specifically listed otherwise.
Not true, in fact it's the opposite.
Most LED's do NOT have a resistor unless it IS specified.
Automotive LED panel indicators MIGHT have them, sometimes they don't.
1990 Power Ram 50 V6 SOHC 24V 6g72
I can be wrong, don't take everything I say as verbatim, please fact-check first.
My posts are my personal opinions and thoughts, unless otherwise noted.
02-08-2011, 04:04 PM
#46
Ed
The table below shows typical technical data for some 5mm diameter round LEDs with diffused packages (plastic bodies). Only three columns are important and these are shown in bold. Please see below for explanations of the quantities.
Type Colour IF
max. VF
typ. VF
max. VR
max. Luminous
intensity Viewing
angle Wavelength
Standard Red 30mA 1.7V 2.1V 5V 5mcd @ 10mA 60° 660nm
Standard Bright red 30mA 2.0V 2.5V 5V 80mcd @ 10mA 60° 625nm
Standard Yellow 30mA 2.1V 2.5V 5V 32mcd @ 10mA 60° 590nm
Standard Green 25mA 2.2V 2.5V 5V 32mcd @ 10mA 60° 565nm
High intensity Blue 30mA 4.5V 5.5V 5V 60mcd @ 20mA 50° 430nm
Super bright Red 30mA 1.85V 2.5V 5V 500mcd @ 20mA 60° 660nm
Low current Red 30mA 1.7V 2.0V 5V 5mcd @ 2mA 60° 625nm
IF max. Maximum forward current, forward just means with the LED connected correctly.
VF typ. Typical forward voltage, VL in the LED resistor calculation.
This is about 2V, except for blue and white LEDs for which it is about 4V.
VF max. Maximum forward voltage.
VR max. Maximum reverse voltage
You can ignore this for LEDs connected the correct way round.
Luminous intensity Brightness of the LED at the given current, mcd = millicandela.
Viewing angle Standard LEDs have a viewing angle of 60°, others emit a narrower beam of about 30°.
Wavelength The peak wavelength of the light emitted, this determines the colour of the LED.
nm = nanometre.
Ed
This post was last modified: 02-08-2011, 04:14 PM by yankneck696.
yankneck696
02-08-2011, 04:04 PM #46It made him feel like he was right...LOL
Ed
The table below shows typical technical data for some 5mm diameter round LEDs with diffused packages (plastic bodies). Only three columns are important and these are shown in bold. Please see below for explanations of the quantities.
Type Colour IF
max. VF
typ. VF
max. VR
max. Luminous
intensity Viewing
angle Wavelength
Standard Red 30mA 1.7V 2.1V 5V 5mcd @ 10mA 60° 660nm
Standard Bright red 30mA 2.0V 2.5V 5V 80mcd @ 10mA 60° 625nm
Standard Yellow 30mA 2.1V 2.5V 5V 32mcd @ 10mA 60° 590nm
Standard Green 25mA 2.2V 2.5V 5V 32mcd @ 10mA 60° 565nm
High intensity Blue 30mA 4.5V 5.5V 5V 60mcd @ 20mA 50° 430nm
Super bright Red 30mA 1.85V 2.5V 5V 500mcd @ 20mA 60° 660nm
Low current Red 30mA 1.7V 2.0V 5V 5mcd @ 2mA 60° 625nm
IF max. Maximum forward current, forward just means with the LED connected correctly.
VF typ. Typical forward voltage, VL in the LED resistor calculation.
This is about 2V, except for blue and white LEDs for which it is about 4V.
VF max. Maximum forward voltage.
VR max. Maximum reverse voltage
You can ignore this for LEDs connected the correct way round.
Luminous intensity Brightness of the LED at the given current, mcd = millicandela.
Viewing angle Standard LEDs have a viewing angle of 60°, others emit a narrower beam of about 30°.
Wavelength The peak wavelength of the light emitted, this determines the colour of the LED.
nm = nanometre.
Ed
02-08-2011, 05:48 PM
#47
This post was last modified: 02-08-2011, 05:49 PM by winmutt.
1987 300D Sturmmachine
1991 300D Nearly Perfect
1985 300D Weekend/Camping/Dog car
1974 L508D Motoroam Monarch "NightMare"
OBK #42
02-08-2011, 07:27 PM
#48
(02-08-2011, 09:46 AM)300D50 true
Thats why its important to know what you're working with.
ForcedInduction
02-08-2011, 07:27 PM
#48
(02-08-2011, 09:46 AM)300D50 true
Thats why its important to know what you're working with.
02-09-2011, 02:06 AM
#49
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
Captain America
02-09-2011, 02:06 AM #49Yeah I wasn't paying attention...
1982 300D Turbo ... 3,6xxlbs, No fan, No AC, Hood Stack, No ALDA, No rear bumper and stuffed front, A/W Intercooled, Injectors by Greezer and HUGE Pre-Chambers with help from OM616 & Simpler=Better, Fuel Cranked up, 60 Trim Compressor wheel, EGT, EMP, Boost 50" Rigid Radius bar on roof Aux tank for a total of 48 Gal Of Diesel! Odyssey PC-1750 Battery in trunk, 27"x8.5"/R14 Maxxis BigHorn Mud Terrains, In June '14 issue of Off Road Mag
AX15 Jeep Trans swap in progress....
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