400hp w210, om606 Turbo or 320cdi?
400hp w210, om606 Turbo or 320cdi?
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
02-27-2011, 04:55 PM #101Their website is very informative....they seem like the answer to our auto box modification quest
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
(02-26-2011, 01:06 PM)George3soccer Wow never knew that shop is literally 20min. from me.
Can you recommend them ?
Or anyone else, you there might have a "better knowledge" about this firm.
I mean ... it is quite a long distance from here to send money and get nothing...
But I would like very much to buy some kind of strengthen kit from them...
I have here a friend, who can then install it.
(02-26-2011, 01:06 PM)George3soccer Wow never knew that shop is literally 20min. from me.
Can you recommend them ?
Or anyone else, you there might have a "better knowledge" about this firm.
I mean ... it is quite a long distance from here to send money and get nothing...
But I would like very much to buy some kind of strengthen kit from them...
I have here a friend, who can then install it.
I ahve heard about the shop just never knew they worked on the Merc tranys.
Mb 1984 w201 om603 swap.
Mb 1986 w201 190E 2.3-16v
Mb 2004 w203 C230k
George3soccer
02-28-2011, 03:21 PM #103Let me know what you want me ask, and Ill give them a call and see what i can do for you.
I ahve heard about the shop just never knew they worked on the Merc tranys.
Mb 1984 w201 om603 swap.
Mb 1986 w201 190E 2.3-16v
Mb 2004 w203 C230k
Looks like we have out transmission specialist here Tuikku who will tune our tuned CDI auto transmissions
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
02-28-2011, 04:14 PM #104Just spoke to a guy their by the name of Tye and he seems to know his Merc transmissions. He immediately suggested a low stall Torque converter to suit the high torque characteristics of the CDI engine. This would typically bring the stall speed down 500-800rpm below stock level. They can rework the valve body to suit increase the line pressure and improve the shifting quality. If you really want,they can rework the whole transmission to a really high standard if you want to get up near 500bhp or above. I have spoken to at least a half dozen transmission shops on both sides of the big pond over the last three to four weeks and this crowd are the most knowledgeable and helpful I have come across. They seem to have the technical know how and ability with the Merc auto transmission,and seem really keen to do business. They also want to know what modifications you plan on doing to your rngine and they will custom tune the building of it to suit same. I will talk to them further tomorrow about having torque converter lock up from 2nd gear onwards.
Looks like we have out transmission specialist here Tuikku who will tune our tuned CDI auto transmissions
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Thank you all.
Riverstick, would you like to ask, what will it cost, if I buy the whole package.
Valve body mod., rebuild kit and torq converter.
Is that then all, that I need?
And how long do I have to wait that valve body mod, how long it takes.
I don´t like to wait months.
Prices are not axpecially low, but if the quality is very good, maybe they are allright then.
... Maybe I try to buy a extra valve body here, that I can sent - then I can still drive the car while waiting parts.
.
Thank you all.
Riverstick, would you like to ask, what will it cost, if I buy the whole package.
Valve body mod., rebuild kit and torq converter.
Is that then all, that I need?
And how long do I have to wait that valve body mod, how long it takes.
I don´t like to wait months.
Prices are not axpecially low, but if the quality is very good, maybe they are allright then.
... Maybe I try to buy a extra valve body here, that I can sent - then I can still drive the car while waiting parts.
I emailed IPT this morning and followed up with a 'phone call to TY a few few minutes ago. I just get the feeling these guys are professional and very good at what they do. They ship transmission parts all over the world and know there transmissions inside out. They seem to have the way,the knowledge and the method of building high performance transmissions,the same way that you have for tuning CDI's
(1) A low stall torque converter will lower the rpm's by 500-800rpms below stock level and will cost $899 and take 3-4 working days to complete.
(2) The reworked valve body will improve shift quality and response times. This will cost $689 and take 2 days to complete.
(3) Return shipping is extra. This is normally $550 to Ireland/England. The torque converter normally weighs 17kgs & the valve body 8kgs.
(4) A complete transmission rebuild,including the valve body,but excluding the torque converter is $4650.
The shift points and torque converter lockup is controlled electronically,and IPT reckon we need someone who can reprogram the transmission control unit to alter these. Apparently the 722.6 auto 'box is also fitted to some models of Porsche and these are being reprogrammed on the aftermarket? Maybe someone could help us on this?
I was thinking of trying the torque converter and valve body to see how we go.
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
03-01-2011, 04:22 PM #106Hi Tuikku,
I emailed IPT this morning and followed up with a 'phone call to TY a few few minutes ago. I just get the feeling these guys are professional and very good at what they do. They ship transmission parts all over the world and know there transmissions inside out. They seem to have the way,the knowledge and the method of building high performance transmissions,the same way that you have for tuning CDI's
(1) A low stall torque converter will lower the rpm's by 500-800rpms below stock level and will cost $899 and take 3-4 working days to complete.
(2) The reworked valve body will improve shift quality and response times. This will cost $689 and take 2 days to complete.
(3) Return shipping is extra. This is normally $550 to Ireland/England. The torque converter normally weighs 17kgs & the valve body 8kgs.
(4) A complete transmission rebuild,including the valve body,but excluding the torque converter is $4650.
The shift points and torque converter lockup is controlled electronically,and IPT reckon we need someone who can reprogram the transmission control unit to alter these. Apparently the 722.6 auto 'box is also fitted to some models of Porsche and these are being reprogrammed on the aftermarket? Maybe someone could help us on this?
I was thinking of trying the torque converter and valve body to see how we go.
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
(02-12-2011, 04:29 AM)tuikku .
Yuo get more power just by changing the cooler.
I am quite sure, that your file there is done very optimistic.
Program recognizes too hot intake air, and limits the power.
So, bigger cooler gives you automatically more power.
If more parts are changed -> we come in to a question of who can do the remapping.
No sense to change parts, if there is no decent place to have that done.
Maybe that is one of the main things to find out, before planning more projects...
More than 95% Mb-tuning programs are crap, unfortunately.
It is not easy to find out a person, who really knows what to do....
Hi Tuikku,
Nice job so far, really interesting to see how the newer CDI's are tweaked. As I read your earlier posts I thought you did your own remapping and programming not ? Or are you still looking for somebody very knowledgeable about the Merc CDI's mapping. I know a guy who is specialised in Mercedes, as a mather a fact he worked as a Bosch engineer for years and also works freelance for Mercedes workshop ( in order to follow latest official MB technical training programs for mechanics ) Now he does mainly chiptuning but always develops hes own maps. He remapped my sprinter van 270 CDI 3 years ago and I was very happy with the result. The thing really pulls like a train, no need for shifting anymore ! And I had 400.000 km problem free, even original clutch no problems whatsoever ( apart from 1 lousy exhaust manifold gasket ) This weekend he will be coming around to do my new Sprinter 318 CDI and another W212 E 300 CDI. If you have any questions maybe I can pass em on as I know he is very good at what he does. You can always PM er email me.
Keep up the great work
(02-12-2011, 04:29 AM)tuikku .
Yuo get more power just by changing the cooler.
I am quite sure, that your file there is done very optimistic.
Program recognizes too hot intake air, and limits the power.
So, bigger cooler gives you automatically more power.
If more parts are changed -> we come in to a question of who can do the remapping.
No sense to change parts, if there is no decent place to have that done.
Maybe that is one of the main things to find out, before planning more projects...
More than 95% Mb-tuning programs are crap, unfortunately.
It is not easy to find out a person, who really knows what to do....
Hi Tuikku,
Nice job so far, really interesting to see how the newer CDI's are tweaked. As I read your earlier posts I thought you did your own remapping and programming not ? Or are you still looking for somebody very knowledgeable about the Merc CDI's mapping. I know a guy who is specialised in Mercedes, as a mather a fact he worked as a Bosch engineer for years and also works freelance for Mercedes workshop ( in order to follow latest official MB technical training programs for mechanics ) Now he does mainly chiptuning but always develops hes own maps. He remapped my sprinter van 270 CDI 3 years ago and I was very happy with the result. The thing really pulls like a train, no need for shifting anymore ! And I had 400.000 km problem free, even original clutch no problems whatsoever ( apart from 1 lousy exhaust manifold gasket ) This weekend he will be coming around to do my new Sprinter 318 CDI and another W212 E 300 CDI. If you have any questions maybe I can pass em on as I know he is very good at what he does. You can always PM er email me.
Keep up the great work
Hi
I have not forgotton this thread.
I have been busy and had a little adversitys also, which takes some time and extra money.
Transmission slips and shakes very well.
I have also found a couple of things in program, which lures the transmission to work a little better.
But hard to exploit that, because of transmission won´t last for long.
Have to do something about it before summer.
AMG power+ injectors is measured now.
They gives +1/3 more fueling at the same (1350bar) pressure.
Works great and adjusting is easy.
.
Hi
I have not forgotton this thread.
I have been busy and had a little adversitys also, which takes some time and extra money.
Transmission slips and shakes very well.
I have also found a couple of things in program, which lures the transmission to work a little better.
But hard to exploit that, because of transmission won´t last for long.
Have to do something about it before summer.
AMG power+ injectors is measured now.
They gives +1/3 more fueling at the same (1350bar) pressure.
Works great and adjusting is easy.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thre...?pid=29188
On edit:
Here is a valvebody rebuilding outfit in Canada. I talked to them on the phone about the 722.6 and they seemed very knowledgeable and helpful. Full blown rebuild with all new parts and *all* of the Sonnax updates is around $550 USD. They can also rebuild the valvebody and only replace what is worn or bad...this will be less expensive. They don't normally have 722.6 valvebody cores in stock - so you would have to send them one. Normal turnaround time is 2-3 business days.
http://www.valvebodybuilders.com/chrysle...large.html
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
HoleshotHolset
05-05-2011, 10:43 AM #110Here is some transmission information that you might find useful.
http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/thre...?pid=29188
On edit:
Here is a valvebody rebuilding outfit in Canada. I talked to them on the phone about the 722.6 and they seemed very knowledgeable and helpful. Full blown rebuild with all new parts and *all* of the Sonnax updates is around $550 USD. They can also rebuild the valvebody and only replace what is worn or bad...this will be less expensive. They don't normally have 722.6 valvebody cores in stock - so you would have to send them one. Normal turnaround time is 2-3 business days.
http://www.valvebodybuilders.com/chrysle...large.html
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
i have a mercedes w210 320 cdi which i want to modify, to 400bhp, i have a vnt turbo comming from the states from a 2008 dodge ram that i am going to fit to the car by modding the original manifold or get a manifold made, i will be getting a custom made exhaust with no cats, flowed head, large fmic or watercooled charge cooler setup. i hope to get 50-60% larger injectors from the usa and this set up controleed by a stand alone ecu or piggy back ecu like a unichip version q.
i may also need a 3 bar map sensor, i dond really want to increase the pressure of the pump but instal an adition pump that i can also get from the us. , if i get the gearbox controll unit remapped will the transmition hold up with 400bhp? im not sure what sor of torque it will produce but what do you think? would the tuner/mapper tune the turque curve not to be so destructive??
any advise would be great!
Obsidian black 2001 E320 cdi, 18inch AMG wheels, waiting to be modified!
angryspartan
07-27-2011, 11:22 AM #111hi , im relativly new to all this diesel tuning and really wanted to keep this discussion going as i have read it over and would like advise or any sort of input.
i have a mercedes w210 320 cdi which i want to modify, to 400bhp, i have a vnt turbo comming from the states from a 2008 dodge ram that i am going to fit to the car by modding the original manifold or get a manifold made, i will be getting a custom made exhaust with no cats, flowed head, large fmic or watercooled charge cooler setup. i hope to get 50-60% larger injectors from the usa and this set up controleed by a stand alone ecu or piggy back ecu like a unichip version q.
i may also need a 3 bar map sensor, i dond really want to increase the pressure of the pump but instal an adition pump that i can also get from the us. , if i get the gearbox controll unit remapped will the transmition hold up with 400bhp? im not sure what sor of torque it will produce but what do you think? would the tuner/mapper tune the turque curve not to be so destructive??
any advise would be great!
Obsidian black 2001 E320 cdi, 18inch AMG wheels, waiting to be modified!
thanks
Obsidian black 2001 E320 cdi, 18inch AMG wheels, waiting to be modified!
angryspartan
07-28-2011, 06:14 AM #112any one with any thought on this??
thanks
Obsidian black 2001 E320 cdi, 18inch AMG wheels, waiting to be modified!
Hi for a long time.
The car is still under construction.
Holset is in the way under the bonnet.
![[Image: 2r6jp54.jpg]](http://i55.tinypic.com/2r6jp54.jpg)
![[Image: oitbeq.jpg]](http://i51.tinypic.com/oitbeq.jpg)
angryspartan, you need first to find a person, whon really can make the program, and is willing to do it ...
- New exhaust manifold, cooler, tubes, how to solve controlling big charger, orig pump is too small, orig railpressure is too low, orig injectors are too small ...
Well - If you just first fall down in stairs, and hit your head, the worst the better - it would be a lot easier to start the project ...
.
Hi for a long time.
The car is still under construction.
Holset is in the way under the bonnet.
angryspartan, you need first to find a person, whon really can make the program, and is willing to do it ...
- New exhaust manifold, cooler, tubes, how to solve controlling big charger, orig pump is too small, orig railpressure is too low, orig injectors are too small ...
Well - If you just first fall down in stairs, and hit your head, the worst the better - it would be a lot easier to start the project ...
![[Image: 28kitev.jpg]](http://i53.tinypic.com/28kitev.jpg)
![[Image: 246rhv4.jpg]](http://i55.tinypic.com/246rhv4.jpg)
can you find out how much shipped to the US please?
cars? what cars? WHERE???
randomdude
08-02-2011, 01:32 PM #115DANG!!! thats nice! can he do one for a OM617.952? 5cyl.
can you find out how much shipped to the US please?
cars? what cars? WHERE???
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Does this manifold support the benefits of a twin entry turbine housing?
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
![[Image: 2hnyt74.jpg]](http://i51.tinypic.com/2hnyt74.jpg)
(08-03-2011, 02:18 AM)majesty78 Does this manifold support the benefits of a twin entry turbine housing?
If you are willing to try something like this, I can make sw.
Holset is not the only one, as you very well know.
Right side WG turbo might be the one (and good) solution.
(07-31-2011, 03:41 AM)tuikku .
Hi for a long time.
The car is still under construction.
Holset is in the way under the bonnet.
angryspartan, you need first to find a person, whon really can make the program, and is willing to do it ...
- New exhaust manifold, cooler, tubes, how to solve controlling big charger, orig pump is too small, orig railpressure is too low, orig injectors are too small ...
Well - If you just first fall down in stairs, and hit your head, the worst the better - it would be a lot easier to start the project ...
Hi tikku
thanks for your input, this is such an interesing thread
what do you think of greg123 input on using larger injectors and not raising the fuel pressure to achieve the right amount of fueling , reducing strain on the pump and engine? is this a better and cheaper way?
i have found a good remaper not far from me to make custom remapping so this is not a problem.
il be using a Holset HE351Ve turbo also, manifold is no problem either
Obsidian black 2001 E320 cdi, 18inch AMG wheels, waiting to be modified!
angryspartan
08-04-2011, 09:06 AM #121(07-31-2011, 03:41 AM)tuikku .
Hi for a long time.
The car is still under construction.
Holset is in the way under the bonnet.
angryspartan, you need first to find a person, whon really can make the program, and is willing to do it ...
- New exhaust manifold, cooler, tubes, how to solve controlling big charger, orig pump is too small, orig railpressure is too low, orig injectors are too small ...
Well - If you just first fall down in stairs, and hit your head, the worst the better - it would be a lot easier to start the project ...
Hi tikku
thanks for your input, this is such an interesing thread
what do you think of greg123 input on using larger injectors and not raising the fuel pressure to achieve the right amount of fueling , reducing strain on the pump and engine? is this a better and cheaper way?
i have found a good remaper not far from me to make custom remapping so this is not a problem.
il be using a Holset HE351Ve turbo also, manifold is no problem either
Obsidian black 2001 E320 cdi, 18inch AMG wheels, waiting to be modified!
Delighted to see this thread alive once again.....the more I look at it....the more I realise we're going to be tuning CDI's for the next 40 years!
I've been busy for the Summer as well but in the meantime I decided to perform a few modifications on my wife's W210 E320 CDI estate(Station wagon)
(1) To decat the engine.
(2) To remove the EGR(This has to be done electronically as well as being blanked physically). I got this information from another forum.
These two systems are sapping at least 40-50bhp from our CDI's....especially as they get older and more clogged up with EGR gunk.
Here are the results I wrote about on another forum;
"My wife has a W210 estate E320Cdi....fantastic car at 217,000 miles but has had the egr system cleaned a few times in its life. As the car regularly does stop/start urban running about with kids etc...the egr system is operating frequently and subsequently blocks/gums up every 18-24 months without fail!
Several times we have tried to blank/bypass/disable the egr,but the car always defaulted to limp home mode,thereby preventing us from disabling the system.
Anyways...The first job I did to the car was remove the three cats/DPF filters....then I followed the instructions on this thread and made up and installed the shunt.....then I replaced the thermostat(engine running cool)...then I replaced a leaking injector washer (#2)...and finally I poured some Lucas fuel conditioner/cleaner into the fuel tank.
And the results......totally transformed the car into a high performance machine!....I took it on a quick 260 mile round trip last Monday night and noticed the following.
(1) The car performs like a scalded cat! and pulls like a steam train.
(2) I ran at 87mph on the cruise control on the motorway and around 70mph on the national roads....The car returned 40.1 mpg....its previous average was around 29mpg.
With 260 miles clocked up,I still had in excess of half a tank of fuel when I returned home.
(3) The engine climbs to operating temp quickly(85 degrees) and stays steadily there all day long.
(4) The turbocharger spools earlier at low rpm and this is slightly more audible from the more pronounced whilstle from the exhaust system as the engine delivers prodigious amounts of extra torque earlier on in the rev range.
(5) I feel the main improvement in performance was due to it being 'decatted' and allowing the engine to 'breath' better.....But I also feel the main reason the cats were blocked up was due to the egr system leaving its gunge through the engine
(6) Not a tint of smoke whatsoever behind as I accelerate the car up a steep hill to over 100mph. On a local steep hill which I normally climb at 30mph...the car will now storm up there at 65/70mph with the traction control system cutting in as the back end starts to break loose.
(7) The car idles and runs better/smoother.
(8) I now have a very happy wife!"
These are two modifications we should complete with our CDI along with any other injectors,turbo,intercoolers etc....
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
08-06-2011, 01:21 AM #122Hi Guys,
Delighted to see this thread alive once again.....the more I look at it....the more I realise we're going to be tuning CDI's for the next 40 years!
I've been busy for the Summer as well but in the meantime I decided to perform a few modifications on my wife's W210 E320 CDI estate(Station wagon)
(1) To decat the engine.
(2) To remove the EGR(This has to be done electronically as well as being blanked physically). I got this information from another forum.
These two systems are sapping at least 40-50bhp from our CDI's....especially as they get older and more clogged up with EGR gunk.
Here are the results I wrote about on another forum;
"My wife has a W210 estate E320Cdi....fantastic car at 217,000 miles but has had the egr system cleaned a few times in its life. As the car regularly does stop/start urban running about with kids etc...the egr system is operating frequently and subsequently blocks/gums up every 18-24 months without fail!
Several times we have tried to blank/bypass/disable the egr,but the car always defaulted to limp home mode,thereby preventing us from disabling the system.
Anyways...The first job I did to the car was remove the three cats/DPF filters....then I followed the instructions on this thread and made up and installed the shunt.....then I replaced the thermostat(engine running cool)...then I replaced a leaking injector washer (#2)...and finally I poured some Lucas fuel conditioner/cleaner into the fuel tank.
And the results......totally transformed the car into a high performance machine!....I took it on a quick 260 mile round trip last Monday night and noticed the following.
(1) The car performs like a scalded cat! and pulls like a steam train.
(2) I ran at 87mph on the cruise control on the motorway and around 70mph on the national roads....The car returned 40.1 mpg....its previous average was around 29mpg.
With 260 miles clocked up,I still had in excess of half a tank of fuel when I returned home.
(3) The engine climbs to operating temp quickly(85 degrees) and stays steadily there all day long.
(4) The turbocharger spools earlier at low rpm and this is slightly more audible from the more pronounced whilstle from the exhaust system as the engine delivers prodigious amounts of extra torque earlier on in the rev range.
(5) I feel the main improvement in performance was due to it being 'decatted' and allowing the engine to 'breath' better.....But I also feel the main reason the cats were blocked up was due to the egr system leaving its gunge through the engine
(6) Not a tint of smoke whatsoever behind as I accelerate the car up a steep hill to over 100mph. On a local steep hill which I normally climb at 30mph...the car will now storm up there at 65/70mph with the traction control system cutting in as the back end starts to break loose.
(7) The car idles and runs better/smoother.
(8) I now have a very happy wife!"
These are two modifications we should complete with our CDI along with any other injectors,turbo,intercoolers etc....
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Have you done a chiptuning on your car yet or is only EGR deleted?
By removing the catalytic converters and EGR without remapping you wont gain 40-50hp, because max. fuelling and boost is still limited by OEM software parameters, but I guess you know that.
Have you flushed the transmission yet?
Regards, Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
If you have removed the EGR system physical and in software, you can also delete the MAF, as its only there for EGR control. So there is one thing less what can fail.
Have you done a chiptuning on your car yet or is only EGR deleted?
By removing the catalytic converters and EGR without remapping you wont gain 40-50hp, because max. fuelling and boost is still limited by OEM software parameters, but I guess you know that.
Have you flushed the transmission yet?
Regards, Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
got me wondering if its worth going for 400bhp now??!
or just de catting and get rid of the egr, full stainless exhaust, k&n filter,
big interccoler and a decent map.
would you see 300bhp?? and you shouldent have problems with gearboxes and things should you??
problem is i have the turbo sitting in a box wanting to be used lol
Obsidian black 2001 E320 cdi, 18inch AMG wheels, waiting to be modified!
angryspartan
08-06-2011, 07:48 AM #124thats brilliant riverstock,
got me wondering if its worth going for 400bhp now??!
or just de catting and get rid of the egr, full stainless exhaust, k&n filter,
big interccoler and a decent map.
would you see 300bhp?? and you shouldent have problems with gearboxes and things should you??
problem is i have the turbo sitting in a box wanting to be used lol
Obsidian black 2001 E320 cdi, 18inch AMG wheels, waiting to be modified!
The turbine side of stock GT2359V may be big enough for 300hp, but compressor doesnt flow enough air.
If you keep stock injectors and turbo you will end up at about 265-270hp in cold weather, you will loose some of that power in warm weather and high engine load due to limited cooling capacity of stock intercooler.
Transmission will be the next limiter in terms of high torque applications. Even with completly stock engine hardware you can bring the tranny to its limit. It probably wont break immediatly, but it will cause problems sooner or later...( ask me how I know *g*)
Regards, Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
For 300hp the stock injectors are to small and stock turbo wont flow enough. So you would need to upgrade the injectors per example from C30 CDI AMG and some bigger turbo.
The turbine side of stock GT2359V may be big enough for 300hp, but compressor doesnt flow enough air.
If you keep stock injectors and turbo you will end up at about 265-270hp in cold weather, you will loose some of that power in warm weather and high engine load due to limited cooling capacity of stock intercooler.
Transmission will be the next limiter in terms of high torque applications. Even with completly stock engine hardware you can bring the tranny to its limit. It probably wont break immediatly, but it will cause problems sooner or later...( ask me how I know *g*)
Regards, Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
(08-06-2011, 01:29 PM)majesty78 For 300hp the stock injectors are to small and stock turbo wont flow enough. So you would need to upgrade the injectors per example from C30 CDI AMG and some bigger turbo.
The turbine side of stock GT2359V may be big enough for 300hp, but compressor doesnt flow enough air.
If you keep stock injectors and turbo you will end up at about 265-270hp in cold weather, you will loose some of that power in warm weather and high engine load due to limited cooling capacity of stock intercooler.
Transmission will be the next limiter in terms of high torque applications. Even with completly stock engine hardware you can bring the tranny to its limit. It probably wont break immediatly, but it will cause problems sooner or later...( ask me how I know *g*)
Regards, Alex
hi majesty,
thank you for your advice, i just need to get this straight,
if i keep stock injectors and stock turbo , with a high power remap, egr delete and a fully decat exhaust i should see 265 -270bhp due to the limiting factor of flow of the turbo, injectors and intake temps of the stock intercooler?
if i added a large front mount intercooler or charge cooler and k&n filter in the original air box to keep temps down will i see any more power nearer the 300bhp mark? or will the turbo and injectors still struggle?
i am just trying to figure out if its better to go the whole way to 400bhp or 300bhp with a few decent modifications
thanks again
Obsidian black 2001 E320 cdi, 18inch AMG wheels, waiting to be modified!
angryspartan
08-07-2011, 09:31 AM #126(08-06-2011, 01:29 PM)majesty78 For 300hp the stock injectors are to small and stock turbo wont flow enough. So you would need to upgrade the injectors per example from C30 CDI AMG and some bigger turbo.
The turbine side of stock GT2359V may be big enough for 300hp, but compressor doesnt flow enough air.
If you keep stock injectors and turbo you will end up at about 265-270hp in cold weather, you will loose some of that power in warm weather and high engine load due to limited cooling capacity of stock intercooler.
Transmission will be the next limiter in terms of high torque applications. Even with completly stock engine hardware you can bring the tranny to its limit. It probably wont break immediatly, but it will cause problems sooner or later...( ask me how I know *g*)
Regards, Alex
hi majesty,
thank you for your advice, i just need to get this straight,
if i keep stock injectors and stock turbo , with a high power remap, egr delete and a fully decat exhaust i should see 265 -270bhp due to the limiting factor of flow of the turbo, injectors and intake temps of the stock intercooler?
if i added a large front mount intercooler or charge cooler and k&n filter in the original air box to keep temps down will i see any more power nearer the 300bhp mark? or will the turbo and injectors still struggle?
i am just trying to figure out if its better to go the whole way to 400bhp or 300bhp with a few decent modifications
thanks again
Obsidian black 2001 E320 cdi, 18inch AMG wheels, waiting to be modified!
Oh, and for aggresive tune you will need 300kpa MAP Sensor which also has to be integrated correctly in mapping.
Regards, Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
A bigger IC wont add power but will help to keep power level upright in hot conditions. Limiting parts are still injectors and turbo, see what tuikku is building, thats always a good advice which way to go.
Oh, and for aggresive tune you will need 300kpa MAP Sensor which also has to be integrated correctly in mapping.
Regards, Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
(08-06-2011, 03:39 AM)majesty78 If you have removed the EGR system physical and in software, you can also delete the MAF, as its only there for EGR control. So there is one thing less what can fail.
Have you done a chiptuning on your car yet or is only EGR deleted?
By removing the catalytic converters and EGR without remapping you wont gain 40-50hp, because max. fuelling and boost is still limited by OEM software parameters, but I guess you know that.
Have you flushed the transmission yet?
Regards, Alex
Hi Alex,
Thank you for that....I removed the egr by blocking the vacuum pipe to the actuator and fitting an electronic circuitry to the external wires of the ecu...this fools the MAF sensor into thinking it has detected a drop in inducted air flow when the egr system is supposedly in the open position(idling,very light throttle,engine over-run,coasting etc...) You can see full details of how to do this on the following link... http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showth...hp?t=68928 ....although I believe it is someone on a VAG site staeside who originally cracked this.
Any software/engine remappers I contacted about this said they could not delete the egr function totally....only turn it down to a very low value...
I notice the Sprinter vans have no egr or MAF sensor.....I would remove the MAF totally if I thought the software could be configured for this.
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
08-07-2011, 11:21 AM #128(08-06-2011, 03:39 AM)majesty78 If you have removed the EGR system physical and in software, you can also delete the MAF, as its only there for EGR control. So there is one thing less what can fail.
Have you done a chiptuning on your car yet or is only EGR deleted?
By removing the catalytic converters and EGR without remapping you wont gain 40-50hp, because max. fuelling and boost is still limited by OEM software parameters, but I guess you know that.
Have you flushed the transmission yet?
Regards, Alex
Hi Alex,
Thank you for that....I removed the egr by blocking the vacuum pipe to the actuator and fitting an electronic circuitry to the external wires of the ecu...this fools the MAF sensor into thinking it has detected a drop in inducted air flow when the egr system is supposedly in the open position(idling,very light throttle,engine over-run,coasting etc...) You can see full details of how to do this on the following link... http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/showth...hp?t=68928 ....although I believe it is someone on a VAG site staeside who originally cracked this.
Any software/engine remappers I contacted about this said they could not delete the egr function totally....only turn it down to a very low value...
I notice the Sprinter vans have no egr or MAF sensor.....I would remove the MAF totally if I thought the software could be configured for this.
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Any idea where i can get the 3ookpa MAP sensor from?
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
08-07-2011, 03:49 PM #130I'm afraid not....
Any idea where i can get the 3ookpa MAP sensor from?
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
(08-07-2011, 03:49 PM)Riverstick I'm afraid not....
Any idea where i can get the 3ookpa MAP sensor from?
Orig part no: A0061539928
But you don´t get happy with that only...
Someone have to "put" it into program also, otherwise it is in limp mode all the time.
I notice the turbo is beginning to leak oil ....so now is the time to upgrade....I want to keep the turbine side....Any ideas of how i can upgrade the compressor side without performing major surgery?.....something bolt together easily perhaps?
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
Riverstick
08-09-2011, 04:37 PM #132Thank you for that Tuikku....just a few more bits to collect before I put the whole project together...
I notice the turbo is beginning to leak oil ....so now is the time to upgrade....I want to keep the turbine side....Any ideas of how i can upgrade the compressor side without performing major surgery?.....something bolt together easily perhaps?
" It is far easier to get forgiveness rather than permission"
There are options, but thy all need major work on turbo.
I am planing to use a high flow 60mm comp.wheel and machine the OEM comp. housing but this will take some time til I have found source for the wheel.
Regards, Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
59.4mm Compressor is one of the biggest common wheels you have on vnt turbos with small shaft diameter.
There are options, but thy all need major work on turbo.
I am planing to use a high flow 60mm comp.wheel and machine the OEM comp. housing but this will take some time til I have found source for the wheel.
Regards, Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
(08-02-2011, 01:52 PM)tuikku .
Why don´t you ask by yourself.
(xxyy)raptec@netti.fi(xxyy)
I sent them an email a few days ago asking about a manifold for an OM606 and they never responded.
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
HoleshotHolset
08-18-2011, 06:56 AM #134(08-02-2011, 01:52 PM)tuikku .
Why don´t you ask by yourself.
(xxyy)raptec@netti.fi(xxyy)
I sent them an email a few days ago asking about a manifold for an OM606 and they never responded.
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
(08-21-2011, 10:48 AM)tuikku Yes, I know, sorry about that.
We are all here poor bastards.
All the humans lives In Sweden and Norway.
My email probably just ended up in his Spam folder. No worries, he will get back to me eventually. In the meantime, I have found a place in Sweden that offers exhaust manifold flanges for the OM606 - both single piece and two-piece flanges.
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
HoleshotHolset
08-21-2011, 12:48 PM #136(08-21-2011, 10:48 AM)tuikku Yes, I know, sorry about that.
We are all here poor bastards.
All the humans lives In Sweden and Norway.
My email probably just ended up in his Spam folder. No worries, he will get back to me eventually. In the meantime, I have found a place in Sweden that offers exhaust manifold flanges for the OM606 - both single piece and two-piece flanges.
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
![[Image: 2m28jz8.jpg]](http://i52.tinypic.com/2m28jz8.jpg)
![[Image: 2623wbs.jpg]](http://i52.tinypic.com/2623wbs.jpg)
I hope you will make one or two videos then :-)))
Thumps up,
Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Cant wait to see this "thing" getting alive :-)
I hope you will make one or two videos then :-)))
Thumps up,
Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
You might want to get ahold of SPD exhaust in california for your custom manifold. They do some pretty awesome work, and are good people. (At least john is, im not sure about the rest)
'82 300D -3" straight pipe, ALDA deleted, 3in1 glowshift gauge, HX30, egr-less manifold, A/W intercooler
'14 Ram 6.7l cummins -G56 handshaker, wishing it was deleted
http://paramountperformanceproducts.com/...ssion-kit/
They have the following list for this upgrade kit:
•Stage II Valve body
•Mercedes AMG clutches and steels (NOT Chrysler (made in China crap) or aftermarket)…these are the real deal.
•Mercedes gasket and seal kit.
•Mercedes oil filter.
So, this begs the question - is it possible to just add more clutches and steels to the existing clutch packs so that it will hold more power/torque? Does this kit assume you are already using the Chrysler V8 version of the NAG1/W5A580/722.6? The valve body is a really easy swap. Still more questions than answers, but it's a step in the right direction...
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
HoleshotHolset
09-05-2011, 08:41 PM #140I just found some information on 'performance' 722.6 transmission upgrades. This vendor is pretty popular with the Chrysler 'LX' chassis and Jeep SRT folks.
http://paramountperformanceproducts.com/...ssion-kit/
They have the following list for this upgrade kit:
•Stage II Valve body
•Mercedes AMG clutches and steels (NOT Chrysler (made in China crap) or aftermarket)…these are the real deal.
•Mercedes gasket and seal kit.
•Mercedes oil filter.
So, this begs the question - is it possible to just add more clutches and steels to the existing clutch packs so that it will hold more power/torque? Does this kit assume you are already using the Chrysler V8 version of the NAG1/W5A580/722.6? The valve body is a really easy swap. Still more questions than answers, but it's a step in the right direction...
Beers,
Matt
'07 W211 OM642
'95 W124.131/722.435, 211k - daily driver/Superturbo project - OM606.962 with "M" pump...under construction! (build thread here)
'99 W210.025 - gone, but not forgotten
'94 Dodge/Cummins - gone, but not forgotten
Exducer diameter 60mm
Trim 60
a/r of original compressor housing .61
max. pressure ratio 4.2
max. flow 0.29kg/sec
max. circumfance speed 582m/s
The max. air flow allows an approx. power of 330hp with a clean lambda of 1.2
Turbine of GT2359V is biggest common european VNT turbine, but may be a tad to small to allow 330hp, but for 300hp this would be good matching.
I found the turbo where above mentioned wheel is used, but how I experienced in the last weeks, it is very hard to come by.
If there are any news, I will keep you updated, maybe I try such wheel on my turbo before going the Twin turbo route.
Regards, Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Just a little more detailed information about the high flow compressor wheel I mentioned above:
Exducer diameter 60mm
Trim 60
a/r of original compressor housing .61
max. pressure ratio 4.2
max. flow 0.29kg/sec
max. circumfance speed 582m/s
The max. air flow allows an approx. power of 330hp with a clean lambda of 1.2
Turbine of GT2359V is biggest common european VNT turbine, but may be a tad to small to allow 330hp, but for 300hp this would be good matching.
I found the turbo where above mentioned wheel is used, but how I experienced in the last weeks, it is very hard to come by.
If there are any news, I will keep you updated, maybe I try such wheel on my turbo before going the Twin turbo route.
Regards, Alex
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
![[Image: 21didxk.jpg]](http://i51.tinypic.com/21didxk.jpg)
![[Image: 34e6yh3.jpg]](http://i56.tinypic.com/34e6yh3.jpg)
![[Image: 2ue5hxe.jpg]](http://i55.tinypic.com/2ue5hxe.jpg)
that kit i linked seems like a REALLY good deal for the $ but i dont personally know anyone that has used one, but i will be using one when i rebuild my tranny. will be a year or so, but i'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes lol.
cars? what cars? WHERE???
randomdude
09-26-2011, 02:42 PM #144maybe some of those paramount parts fitted with (http://transmissiontechnologies.com/supe...ports.aspx) this would make for quite a good "stock" tranny.
that kit i linked seems like a REALLY good deal for the $ but i dont personally know anyone that has used one, but i will be using one when i rebuild my tranny. will be a year or so, but i'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes lol.
cars? what cars? WHERE???
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Nuce, but for the "wrong" transmissions in this thread... :-(Nuce, but for the "wrong" transmissions in this thread... :-(
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
I R FAIL
cars? what cars? WHERE???
randomdude
09-26-2011, 03:06 PM #146oh sorry, lame. thats the only MBZ kit they have IIRC.
I R FAIL
cars? what cars? WHERE???
Hi
Have been quite busy and recently very cold here ...
Anyway, something has happened.
A couple of weeks ago, I went to dyno.
~800nm/2000rpm and 350hp/4200rpm.
Boost near 2,5bar.
Turbo is the same holset 35 with 12" turbine housing.
I am using still orig exhaust pipe and that stock transmissioin which slides ... lets say enough, surely enough - limp modes every times I want "full attact".
So, I am not sure about the real torq or power, but at least that, what we have measured.
Smoke comes over 3500rpm - air ends ? - boost encrease do not help anything anyway.
So, maybe it is time now to do something about the exhaust side and change the turbine housing to 16".
Hope, that these mod gives more air to higher revs.
.
Hi
Have been quite busy and recently very cold here ...
Anyway, something has happened.
A couple of weeks ago, I went to dyno.
~800nm/2000rpm and 350hp/4200rpm.
Boost near 2,5bar.
Turbo is the same holset 35 with 12" turbine housing.
I am using still orig exhaust pipe and that stock transmissioin which slides ... lets say enough, surely enough - limp modes every times I want "full attact".
So, I am not sure about the real torq or power, but at least that, what we have measured.
Smoke comes over 3500rpm - air ends ? - boost encrease do not help anything anyway.
So, maybe it is time now to do something about the exhaust side and change the turbine housing to 16".
Hope, that these mod gives more air to higher revs.
(02-28-2011, 02:13 PM)tuikku(02-26-2011, 01:06 PM)George3soccer Wow never knew that shop is literally 20min. from me.
Can you recommend them ?
Or anyone else, you there might have a "better knowledge" about this firm.
I mean ... it is quite a long distance from here to send money and get nothing...
But I would like very much to buy some kind of strengthen kit from them...
I have here a friend, who can then install it.
I have everything they offer and more in my 722.6
I will send PM's to anyone who wants to know more...
I have an 03 C32 with 381/393rw w/a Quaife and pull 1.6 60' on street tires.
Sorry for missing the very important CDI thread but my diesel has been on the back burner since I dumped too much money into the C32 last October doing a port and polish for an epic road trip to the tail of the dragon where I then rode an Aprilia R1000.
Don
(03-01-2011, 04:22 PM)Riverstick Apparently the 722.6 auto 'box is also fitted to some models of Porsche and these are being reprogrammed on the aftermarket? Maybe someone could help us on this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbTVgwshffk&hd=1
http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.co...ontrol.php
racerxoffl
02-17-2012, 09:59 PM #149(02-28-2011, 02:13 PM)tuikku(02-26-2011, 01:06 PM)George3soccer Wow never knew that shop is literally 20min. from me.
Can you recommend them ?
Or anyone else, you there might have a "better knowledge" about this firm.
I mean ... it is quite a long distance from here to send money and get nothing...
But I would like very much to buy some kind of strengthen kit from them...
I have here a friend, who can then install it.
I have everything they offer and more in my 722.6
I will send PM's to anyone who wants to know more...
I have an 03 C32 with 381/393rw w/a Quaife and pull 1.6 60' on street tires.
Sorry for missing the very important CDI thread but my diesel has been on the back burner since I dumped too much money into the C32 last October doing a port and polish for an epic road trip to the tail of the dragon where I then rode an Aprilia R1000.
Don
(03-01-2011, 04:22 PM)Riverstick Apparently the 722.6 auto 'box is also fitted to some models of Porsche and these are being reprogrammed on the aftermarket? Maybe someone could help us on this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbTVgwshffk&hd=1
http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.co...ontrol.php
I emailed them two or three times; never received a reply .... :-(
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
Are you talking about importperformancetrans (IPT) ?
I emailed them two or three times; never received a reply .... :-(
Mercedes Benz W210 E-Class 320CDI, lowered 2.5", 18" AMG wheels, Decat, EGR removed, Tumble flaps removed, C30 AMG injectors, 400kpa MAP, Custom GT2566XTV turbo, SW tweaked to 300+hp/750Nm
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