Newbie with NO CLUE about diesels just bought a non running '80 300D- Oh noes!
Newbie with NO CLUE about diesels just bought a non running '80 300D- Oh noes!
I've done it again.
As if I didn't have enough projects in the works. I went and bought a non running 300d. Story goes that the guy was driving it daily for like 40k miles, and one day, it died. He maintained it was a tank screen, but, as I was cranking it, every compression stroke, it puffs a whitish blue puff from the injector/injector pump area in conjunction with an audible compression.
Now, I'm no newb to old cars or rebuilding them- I've done my fair share of building cars from the ground up, but I've never even looked under the hood of a diesel. Help me.
Here are some pics of the motor- I think the guy was quite the "modifier." What do you call a diesel ricer? Fried Rice?
![[Image: IMG_1572.jpg]](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/turboxr/IMG_1572.jpg)
![[Image: IMG_1574.jpg]](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/turboxr/IMG_1574.jpg)
![[Image: IMG_1573.jpg]](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/turboxr/IMG_1573.jpg)
![[Image: IMG_1575.jpg]](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/turboxr/IMG_1575.jpg)
![[Image: IMG_1576.jpg]](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/turboxr/IMG_1576.jpg)
Now, where should I start? What needs to be re routed/done? (Besides the most excellent intake)
Sorry for the newbiness and such, but I need to know where to start.
Much thanks!
Joe
Yep.
I've done it again.
As if I didn't have enough projects in the works. I went and bought a non running 300d. Story goes that the guy was driving it daily for like 40k miles, and one day, it died. He maintained it was a tank screen, but, as I was cranking it, every compression stroke, it puffs a whitish blue puff from the injector/injector pump area in conjunction with an audible compression.
Now, I'm no newb to old cars or rebuilding them- I've done my fair share of building cars from the ground up, but I've never even looked under the hood of a diesel. Help me.
Here are some pics of the motor- I think the guy was quite the "modifier." What do you call a diesel ricer? Fried Rice?
Now, where should I start? What needs to be re routed/done? (Besides the most excellent intake)
Sorry for the newbiness and such, but I need to know where to start.
Much thanks!
Joe
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
led-panzer
01-04-2011, 08:23 PM #2I'm a noob myself but I can point out the shut off on the IP isn't connected. As far as the tank screen try switching the lines (draw from the return line) did you change the filters? And being in AR you probably won't have a problem with it but the battery is way undersized. Was the car ever run on veg oil? And what is that thing on the drivers side wheel well? Someone far more experianced than me will be able to help more. Smoke from the IP area is definitly not a good thing.
1984 300D 4-speed ~200,000 miles
7.5mm M-pump, GT3582 turbo, F-Tune Performance intake/exhaust manifolds, A/A intercooler, 315 nozzles, Enlarged prechambers, Bosch 044 feed pump, Custom lightweight flywheel with 240mm clutch, Lowered, 17" AMG rims - 300 hp OM617 project
1985 300D 280,000 miles RIP
2001 F350 7.3 DP tuner, 4"exhaust, S&B intake
That sounds like compression leaking past either the injector heatshield or the prechamber sealing ring. Injector heatshield is not too difficult to replace, you just need a deep 27mm socket and a new heatshield. The prechamber sealing ring though... gonna need a special tool to remove the locking collar and prechamber.
82 300SD aka The Flyin Pumpkin (Gone): 7.5mm super M-pump, T3 60 trim turbo, Coldish air intake, A/W intercooler, propane injection, SW Boost and EGT gauges, Monark 265 nozzles, ported/polished cylinder head.
84 Euro 300D 4 sp: White with black trunk and hood. Blue cloth interior. Manual everything. 300DT front swaybar. C320 17" wheels. Now with the Flyin Pumpkins engine!
"...as I was cranking it, every compression stroke, it puffs a whitish blue puff from the injector/injector pump area in conjunction with an audible compression."
That sounds like compression leaking past either the injector heatshield or the prechamber sealing ring. Injector heatshield is not too difficult to replace, you just need a deep 27mm socket and a new heatshield. The prechamber sealing ring though... gonna need a special tool to remove the locking collar and prechamber.
82 300SD aka The Flyin Pumpkin (Gone): 7.5mm super M-pump, T3 60 trim turbo, Coldish air intake, A/W intercooler, propane injection, SW Boost and EGT gauges, Monark 265 nozzles, ported/polished cylinder head.
84 Euro 300D 4 sp: White with black trunk and hood. Blue cloth interior. Manual everything. 300DT front swaybar. C320 17" wheels. Now with the Flyin Pumpkins engine!
BTW, Does anyone have a valve cover oil cap I can buy?
Ok. I feel stupid. But, you must remember, I'm a complete n00b! I described what it was doing to the previous owner and he said, "Oh! I took three of the glow plugs out." /facepalm/ So, I bought three glow plugs, installed them, threw a slightly larger battery than before on it, and cranked away. It was so close to turning over. I swapped the supply and return lines and it actually turned over several times but would die immediately after I let off the starter. Can I attribute that to the 30* weather and not having run in about 3 months? Or is something else awry?
BTW, Does anyone have a valve cover oil cap I can buy?
Hey! First post here. Sounds like a timing issue to me maybe. Pump sending fuel into the wrong stroke and the piston coming up is pushing the fuel back out. Does it come out the air intake too? If not you could have a blown gasket at the IP housing interface and timing issues. Just a guess. ds
DieselSchlepper
01-29-2011, 01:18 PM #8Hey! First post here. Sounds like a timing issue to me maybe. Did you check the valves at top dead center on one? Forgive any boobishness, I'm new to MB. ds
Hey! First post here. Sounds like a timing issue to me maybe. Pump sending fuel into the wrong stroke and the piston coming up is pushing the fuel back out. Does it come out the air intake too? If not you could have a blown gasket at the IP housing interface and timing issues. Just a guess. ds
Ed
yankneck696
01-29-2011, 02:47 PM #9See the 2 yellow hardlines comming to a "Y" from the firewall grommet, get another hardline from there to the rubber connector on the back of the injector pump. I think that should do it.
Ed
(01-08-2011, 11:39 PM)turboxr Can I attribute that to the 30* weather and not having run in about 3 months?
If it's almost but not quite starting in 30F weather, then it probably just has one or more bad glow plugs, and/or a weak battery (although a worn engine with bad compression isn't unlikely either). Test the glow plugs with an ohmmeter (should be under 1 ohm each) and try cranking with two batteries hooked in parallel with jumper cables. Floor the throttle while you crank, and don't let up until it really starts- and then not all the way, until it smooths out.
An injector pump timing issue (as mentioned by others) is extremely unlikely and should probably not be looked into as once they're set they stay set- although you should check adjust the valve clearances, and check for timing chain stretch.
Since your fuel shutoff valve is disconnected, you'll have to press the "stop" lever on the injector pump to shut off the engine, once you get it running.
-Tyler
1984 Volvo 760GLE Turbo Diesel D24T/M46
1986 Isuzu Trooper Turbo Diesel
No mercedes (for now)
(01-08-2011, 11:39 PM)turboxr Can I attribute that to the 30* weather and not having run in about 3 months?
If it's almost but not quite starting in 30F weather, then it probably just has one or more bad glow plugs, and/or a weak battery (although a worn engine with bad compression isn't unlikely either). Test the glow plugs with an ohmmeter (should be under 1 ohm each) and try cranking with two batteries hooked in parallel with jumper cables. Floor the throttle while you crank, and don't let up until it really starts- and then not all the way, until it smooths out.
An injector pump timing issue (as mentioned by others) is extremely unlikely and should probably not be looked into as once they're set they stay set- although you should check adjust the valve clearances, and check for timing chain stretch.
Since your fuel shutoff valve is disconnected, you'll have to press the "stop" lever on the injector pump to shut off the engine, once you get it running.
-Tyler
1984 Volvo 760GLE Turbo Diesel D24T/M46
1986 Isuzu Trooper Turbo Diesel
No mercedes (for now)
DieselSchlepper
01-30-2011, 06:12 AM #11Ah, yes, timing chain stretch. On a worn engine can slip a tooth and lead to timing issues. I don't know about MB though, have seen it on many others, almost but not quite starting similar to this one.
(01-30-2011, 06:12 AM)DieselSchlepper On a worn engine can slip a tooth and lead to timing issues.
The valves will hit the pistons before the timing chain skips a tooth on an MB diesel. There is very little margin for error in the camshaft timing.
Luckily, if ran on synthetic oil the timing chains don't really stretch or wear out, and even if they do it's not that hard to replace them. My 190D has no detectable stretch (well under 1 degree) after 227k miles...
-Tyler
1984 Volvo 760GLE Turbo Diesel D24T/M46
1986 Isuzu Trooper Turbo Diesel
No mercedes (for now)
(01-30-2011, 06:12 AM)DieselSchlepper On a worn engine can slip a tooth and lead to timing issues.
The valves will hit the pistons before the timing chain skips a tooth on an MB diesel. There is very little margin for error in the camshaft timing.
Luckily, if ran on synthetic oil the timing chains don't really stretch or wear out, and even if they do it's not that hard to replace them. My 190D has no detectable stretch (well under 1 degree) after 227k miles...
-Tyler
1984 Volvo 760GLE Turbo Diesel D24T/M46
1986 Isuzu Trooper Turbo Diesel
No mercedes (for now)
I notice your return line from the first fuel injector is not connected to the spin on fuel filter. are the rubber hoses connected from injector to injector? these are the return hose that returns excess fuel to the fuel tank. Pic #4 shows the nipple w/o the return line missing.
the fat rubber hose from the spin on filter (Cigar hose) is the return line. Pic #4.
The 2 yellow lines connected to the "Y" rubber connector, are vacuum lines for the door lock system. don`t worry about them now. they are not hurting anything disconnected.
the 2 brown vac lines are for the fuel shut off to kill the engine. the loose one with the short hose on the end, Pic #3, connects to a nipple on the rear of the injection pump. there is a little round can looking thing with the nipple pointing up.
On the left inner fender is a black box with some wires going into it. behind the blue rag pic #1. lift off the lid. there is a 80 amp strip fuse held down with 2 screws. this may look good, but might be cracked and not giving the GP`s power. you will need a digital volt meter to check for 12volts on either side of it.
Here is a good site to do a run down of the GP system
http://www.dieselgiant.com/glowplugrepair.htm
You did say you swapped the supply and return lines. but you will need at least a 1/2 tank of fuel to keep the return line submurged, which is now your supply.
I can`t tell, but does the little clear plastic filter have fuel in it? it will always have a bubble of air, so don`t worry.
You may have air in the fuel system. I would remove the spinon filter and make sure it is full of fuel. you can use ATF, Diesel purge also. don`t use fuel out of a fuel can, you can be dumping dirt/water etc in your filter..
then pump the primer pump at the lift pump. Pic #5, black thing left of clear plastic filter. pump until you hear a squish whoosh sound of the fuel going through the spin on filter to the return line.
Loosen the fuel lines at each injector, 17mm wrench. crank engine until you see fuel at each line, and tighten each as you see the fuel. this will purge the air from the hard lines.
having the valves adjusted to spec is a big plus getting these to run as best as they can.
this link should give you the guidance for the valves.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/show...p?t=107729
Diesel Giant has some good pictures also.
http://www.dieselgiant.com/valveadjustment.htm
To do the compression, as was sugested, the valves need to be done first.
you could have a blown head gasket that is causing the white smoke, or it could be oil leaking past he valve guide seals. or unburned fuel coming out as a white fog because the GP`s are not working.
you need compression, heat, and fuel to get these old Diesel to start.
Charlie
PO was driving it, and one day it just died. maybe he just ran out of fuel, or maybe he ran it out of oil.
I notice your return line from the first fuel injector is not connected to the spin on fuel filter. are the rubber hoses connected from injector to injector? these are the return hose that returns excess fuel to the fuel tank. Pic #4 shows the nipple w/o the return line missing.
the fat rubber hose from the spin on filter (Cigar hose) is the return line. Pic #4.
The 2 yellow lines connected to the "Y" rubber connector, are vacuum lines for the door lock system. don`t worry about them now. they are not hurting anything disconnected.
the 2 brown vac lines are for the fuel shut off to kill the engine. the loose one with the short hose on the end, Pic #3, connects to a nipple on the rear of the injection pump. there is a little round can looking thing with the nipple pointing up.
On the left inner fender is a black box with some wires going into it. behind the blue rag pic #1. lift off the lid. there is a 80 amp strip fuse held down with 2 screws. this may look good, but might be cracked and not giving the GP`s power. you will need a digital volt meter to check for 12volts on either side of it.
Here is a good site to do a run down of the GP system
http://www.dieselgiant.com/glowplugrepair.htm
You did say you swapped the supply and return lines. but you will need at least a 1/2 tank of fuel to keep the return line submurged, which is now your supply.
I can`t tell, but does the little clear plastic filter have fuel in it? it will always have a bubble of air, so don`t worry.
You may have air in the fuel system. I would remove the spinon filter and make sure it is full of fuel. you can use ATF, Diesel purge also. don`t use fuel out of a fuel can, you can be dumping dirt/water etc in your filter..
then pump the primer pump at the lift pump. Pic #5, black thing left of clear plastic filter. pump until you hear a squish whoosh sound of the fuel going through the spin on filter to the return line.
Loosen the fuel lines at each injector, 17mm wrench. crank engine until you see fuel at each line, and tighten each as you see the fuel. this will purge the air from the hard lines.
having the valves adjusted to spec is a big plus getting these to run as best as they can.
this link should give you the guidance for the valves.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/show...p?t=107729
Diesel Giant has some good pictures also.
http://www.dieselgiant.com/valveadjustment.htm
To do the compression, as was sugested, the valves need to be done first.
you could have a blown head gasket that is causing the white smoke, or it could be oil leaking past he valve guide seals. or unburned fuel coming out as a white fog because the GP`s are not working.
you need compression, heat, and fuel to get these old Diesel to start.
Charlie
Ok, I got it running thanks to you guys! I honestly think that the PO just ran out of gas. I put fuel return lines from the injectors to the spin on filter (the PO must have been a little off his rocker) and ran the vacuum lines as well as I could figure out, then used a mighty vac to pull fuel from the tank on the supply line, and made sure the spin on filter had plenty in it, and she fired up! Unfortunately, she won't stop running- which from research suggests a fuel cutoff valve, but it also shifts extremely hard into second after winding out first and the brakes are exceedingly hard but don't do much- after researching a bit, it seems these problems can be all be related to a faulty vacuum pump? Is that correct? Thanks for the help guys!
Mine wouldn't pull enough vacuum when I got the car but after disconnecting the doorlocks and 2 big plastic reservoirs that hold a negative pressure the car would stop from turning the key.
That modulator 'black box' on top of the valve cover is partially responsible for shifting. The cable attached to it can be loosened to shift harder and tightened to shift softer.
http://www.dieselgiant.com/trannyleverreplace.htm
here is a pic of the modulator and a recommendation to replace some little plastic bits in there.
I bought some from peachparts and swapped them. Also notice there is vacuum line that have something to do with it's operation.
I am new to all this to so sorry if I am not so eloquent and super informative
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
the cutoff for fuel is at the back end of the injection pump. With the motor running you can suck a vacuum on it with a hand pump or just suck on it like a japanese hooker and that should cut the fuel.
Mine wouldn't pull enough vacuum when I got the car but after disconnecting the doorlocks and 2 big plastic reservoirs that hold a negative pressure the car would stop from turning the key.
That modulator 'black box' on top of the valve cover is partially responsible for shifting. The cable attached to it can be loosened to shift harder and tightened to shift softer.
http://www.dieselgiant.com/trannyleverreplace.htm
here is a pic of the modulator and a recommendation to replace some little plastic bits in there.
I bought some from peachparts and swapped them. Also notice there is vacuum line that have something to do with it's operation.
I am new to all this to so sorry if I am not so eloquent and super informative
Nice body, tons of ridiculous mechanical issues - 300d turbo 82' /motor 85'
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